Again...
Tuesday, July 2, 2002 by adni18 | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Someone who thinks that he is a God or Art master or I don’t know what, he just visit the wallpaper section and he has put to almost all wallpapers the lowest rates! I think he have done it to WindowBlinds section too!
I don't know if this action is for laugh or cry, but someone (maybe you Pat
), must have a look at this phenomenon 
The intentions for the rating system are good, but some people are not! I am sorry to say that, but it is a fact.
So many kind and interesting people in WinCustomize, I wonder why they are permitting some brainless minority, (maybe 5 people at most), to spoil the image of the site.
I don't know if this action is for laugh or cry, but someone (maybe you Pat
), must have a look at this phenomenon 
The intentions for the rating system are good, but some people are not! I am sorry to say that, but it is a fact.
So many kind and interesting people in WinCustomize, I wonder why they are permitting some brainless minority, (maybe 5 people at most), to spoil the image of the site.
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Fuzzy Logic
Reply #22 Tuesday, July 2, 2002 5:12 PM
Reply #22 Tuesday, July 2, 2002 5:12 PM
The download count says a lot, but of popularity rather than skill or artistry. Not quite the same thing. How many skillful but unknown artists fail in their aspirations due to the 'opinions' of a small minority? Is a famous artists work of greater quality simply because it hangs on more walls? Perhaps the rating system is misunderstood.
each to their own...
each to their own...
Carlitus
Reply #23 Tuesday, July 2, 2002 5:41 PM i need to install again Babylon Translator on my computer, but with your explanations i learn english very fast!
Obiously my first impression over my skins are the usability that i find and the graphic impression; after, if it is useful and grateful for other users, for this reason i upload skins
Reply #23 Tuesday, July 2, 2002 5:41 PM
i need to install again Babylon Translator on my computer, but with your explanations i learn english very fast!Obiously my first impression over my skins are the usability that i find and the graphic impression; after, if it is useful and grateful for other users, for this reason i upload skins
T-Man
Reply #24 Tuesday, July 2, 2002 5:45 PM
Reply #24 Tuesday, July 2, 2002 5:45 PM
"The download count is already there as an indicator to popular skins. "
Download counts are not accurate either. To first determine if a skin is decent you may need to download it. (Screenshot alone does not tell all). So you could take Adni or Treetog, they could make a horrible skin yet it would most like get thousands upon thousands of downloads. Does that make it a good skin. No. Ratings are another way to measure a skin based on the opinions of other people who have used the skin.
I don't know why I'm responding to this because its just beating a dead horse. We have improved the system. There are a few bugs that need to be tweaked. We are not going to get rid of the system and we are not going to implement every idea that is brought forth. This is our rating system. It is here to stay.
Download counts are not accurate either. To first determine if a skin is decent you may need to download it. (Screenshot alone does not tell all). So you could take Adni or Treetog, they could make a horrible skin yet it would most like get thousands upon thousands of downloads. Does that make it a good skin. No. Ratings are another way to measure a skin based on the opinions of other people who have used the skin.
I don't know why I'm responding to this because its just beating a dead horse. We have improved the system. There are a few bugs that need to be tweaked. We are not going to get rid of the system and we are not going to implement every idea that is brought forth. This is our rating system. It is here to stay.
Lecrayon
Reply #25 Tuesday, July 2, 2002 5:53 PM
Reply #25 Tuesday, July 2, 2002 5:53 PM
Ratings, however can be a certain critic that lets you look at your work in an objective manner. However, I agree that if someone rates someone's work, I would like to see why, in order to get better (if ratings go low) or get a boost (if ratings are good). In fact many people see rating as a competition element, which actually is not the goal for submissions I hope. And that's where I agree with Carlitus: "But it's true, i like very much some skins that are poor rated, and i don't understand some "10" rattings".
T-Man
Reply #26 Tuesday, July 2, 2002 6:09 PM
Reply #26 Tuesday, July 2, 2002 6:09 PM
"But it's true, i like very much some skins that are poor rated, and i don't understand some "10" rattings".
Thats because ratings are opinions. Not everyone will have the same opinion. Opinions of the people who use the skins.
Opinions of the people who use the site and skins. A general opinion. Not an exact science. Art is not a science. It is subjective. Ratings are just one way of gaging. Downloads are another. Comments are another. An artists name is another. A screenshot is another. The site that the skins are on is another. All these ways can be used to help you filter the skins to your taste and style. If one particular method does not fit your taste then use another or combination. Ratings work for me but may not for you. But then downloads may work for you but not for me.
Correct ratings do not tell you why I may or may not like your skin. That is not the purpose. Thats what comments are for. If I don't like your skin and don't download it then I am posting a vote for not liking a skin. If I like it, then I may download it and thus posting a vote for your skin. Should I be forced to comment whether I download it or not? NO. I have the same feelings for ratings.
Again. If you do not like the rating system, use one of the other systems.
Thats because ratings are opinions. Not everyone will have the same opinion. Opinions of the people who use the skins.
Opinions of the people who use the site and skins. A general opinion. Not an exact science. Art is not a science. It is subjective. Ratings are just one way of gaging. Downloads are another. Comments are another. An artists name is another. A screenshot is another. The site that the skins are on is another. All these ways can be used to help you filter the skins to your taste and style. If one particular method does not fit your taste then use another or combination. Ratings work for me but may not for you. But then downloads may work for you but not for me.
Correct ratings do not tell you why I may or may not like your skin. That is not the purpose. Thats what comments are for. If I don't like your skin and don't download it then I am posting a vote for not liking a skin. If I like it, then I may download it and thus posting a vote for your skin. Should I be forced to comment whether I download it or not? NO. I have the same feelings for ratings.
Again. If you do not like the rating system, use one of the other systems.
WOM
Reply #27 Tuesday, July 2, 2002 6:20 PM
Reply #27 Tuesday, July 2, 2002 6:20 PM
Bug or no Bug I still think that if you rate then you must comment. It wouldn't take much to program that in . It wouldn't accept the rating if there wasn't a comment. Just my opinion.
Lecrayon
Reply #28 Tuesday, July 2, 2002 6:23 PM
Reply #28 Tuesday, July 2, 2002 6:23 PM
That's a pity T-man if you rate and don't say why. At least if you give low rating, you could comment on why without bringing your personal taste forward. For instance, not functional here and there, or whatever you think can be subject to improvement. But then again we are not all teachers. To me all systems you mention are very subjective, downloads don't say something about quality, neither does a rating or subjective comments. Many of the great artists kept on taking lessons to keep themselves on their toes. In order to get better or don't fall back on routines. These systems you talk about won't do that. Once in a while some comments I got were helpful.
davad70
Reply #29 Tuesday, July 2, 2002 6:32 PM
Reply #29 Tuesday, July 2, 2002 6:32 PM
I'm amazed and proud of myself that I've been able to stay out of this thread so far....will continue to try to stay out of it. 
Carry on the fight adni & carlitus!
Carry on the fight adni & carlitus!
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #30 Tuesday, July 2, 2002 6:40 PM
Reply #30 Tuesday, July 2, 2002 6:40 PM
I can see this is one subject where 'opinions' are so divided a satisfactory conclusion is unlikely. Suffice to say I shall continue to rate skins in my own way. I will not rate any skin 1 - if I don't download a skin I don't rate it, and I don't download skins if I don't like the look of them, so the question is academic.
But it does make you wonder on what basis someone is rating skins so low; do they rate without downloading, or do they download all per se. Perhaps the people involved should question their intent? But as I said before, each to their own...
But it does make you wonder on what basis someone is rating skins so low; do they rate without downloading, or do they download all per se. Perhaps the people involved should question their intent? But as I said before, each to their own...
Jafo
Reply #31 Tuesday, July 2, 2002 7:00 PM
Reply #31 Tuesday, July 2, 2002 7:00 PM
'each to HIS own'....[it's singular, that 'each']... 
koop....'glitch-free' sounds good....
koop....'glitch-free' sounds good....
UBoB
Reply #32 Tuesday, July 2, 2002 7:20 PM
Reply #32 Tuesday, July 2, 2002 7:20 PM
On the few occasions I rated something I always gave an explanation in the skin's/wall's message board.
Sometimes, I even received a nice email in return.
Manners are important, and almost always end with good results.
Sometimes, I even received a nice email in return.
Manners are important, and almost always end with good results.
Chris
Reply #33 Tuesday, July 2, 2002 8:02 PM
Reply #33 Tuesday, July 2, 2002 8:02 PM
Chris high-fives Davad70, ducks behind the bar, then reaches up for the bottle of JD.
snarph
Reply #34 Tuesday, July 2, 2002 9:18 PM
Reply #34 Tuesday, July 2, 2002 9:18 PM
Presently, the way the rankings work is each day, a query is run through the databases to find out what users' skins, themes, etc. have the most downloads per day. The final number is then divided by 10. This tends to favor newer skins over older ones since newer skins tend to have a higher download per day average. But ultimately it favors the active skin authors who are contributing a lot of skins to the community. Eventually, we will also have the top community skin authors which will be determined through Stardock's upcoming "Convergence" application that will allow users to automatically (and optionally) to send what skins and themes and icons they're using to a central database (user information is kept anonymously). The skins and themes in use will be made available to all skin sites. The more sites your skin and theme are on, the better your ranking will be.
is this not how it works?
is this not how it works?
paxx
Reply #35 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 12:06 AM
Reply #35 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 12:06 AM
Hey, T-Man, I'm not forcing your hand. I just express my opinion, I don't like ratings and I say it. I never will like ratings, a good rating is a dead rating... errr, well not quite, but anyway.
The main reason I don't like ratings is known, but let me repeat it: nobody rates according to the same criterias, therefore making ratings meaningless because noone knows what exactly is being rated.
Biff may think that skin X is buggy, so he gives it a 4.
Jeff may thing that skin X is ugly,so he gives it a 4.
But Jamie may think that skin X is lightning fast and give it an 8.
Biif and Jeff gives the skin the same rating, but for two different reasons, while Jamie thinks the skin is a good one for yet another reason. All 3 judged the skin, but all 3 used a different ground to judge it.
How would you have liked in school to have the teacher mark your paper by just looking at how your handwriting looked, or at what color ink you used? Your teachers gave you a mark based a specific criterias they were looking for.
Anyway, I am not arguing, I'm done doing that. I know it won't change. I'm just explaining my view.
Oh and
The main reason I don't like ratings is known, but let me repeat it: nobody rates according to the same criterias, therefore making ratings meaningless because noone knows what exactly is being rated.
Biff may think that skin X is buggy, so he gives it a 4.
Jeff may thing that skin X is ugly,so he gives it a 4.
But Jamie may think that skin X is lightning fast and give it an 8.
Biif and Jeff gives the skin the same rating, but for two different reasons, while Jamie thinks the skin is a good one for yet another reason. All 3 judged the skin, but all 3 used a different ground to judge it.
How would you have liked in school to have the teacher mark your paper by just looking at how your handwriting looked, or at what color ink you used? Your teachers gave you a mark based a specific criterias they were looking for.
Anyway, I am not arguing, I'm done doing that. I know it won't change. I'm just explaining my view.
Oh and
Lord Vimal
Reply #36 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 12:52 AM
Reply #36 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 12:52 AM
hey paxx...whats that icon??
please tell Lord Vimal !
please tell Lord Vimal !
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #37 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 2:16 AM
Reply #37 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 2:16 AM
Jafo.. 'their' is more politically correct then 'his'. If you use 'his', then what about 'her'?
Old_Crab
Reply #38 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 2:53 AM
Reply #38 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 2:53 AM
Ratings are over-rated inclusions of someones discontent. These maybe induced by emotions not covered by the usual emoticons available. Many WPs are the hard work of well intentioned but abysmal budding young artists. They do mean well however their talents lay else where. As for the direct ratings of said same WPs the system is caprisious at best and often biased by the selection committee. Listen To Dangeruss. Read his comment. Same opinion. Ah, me, what a day. 
adni18
Reply #39 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 3:00 AM
Reply #39 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 3:00 AM
About the rating system we have many conversations before and the most of us we understand well that unfortunately “it is here to stay”.
I may have been misunderstood, because this thread wasn’t meant to be an argument about the rating system, but a conversation about the strange, at least, behavior of some people, who have the permission to vote.
In the other hand, I must make it clear, that I didn’t start this thread for personal reasons or to accuse anything related with the functionality of the site, but I start it, because I saw a wrongdoing against some authors.
The phenomenon still goes on today subdued and it is not a system bug, but if you think that it is, ok, let it be.
We are not living in a perfect word and I have never expect, that a thread like this one, could change the bad and unfair behavior of some people.
P.S. I am writing all this, because I care and love this site, call WinCustomize, if you don’t mind.
I may have been misunderstood, because this thread wasn’t meant to be an argument about the rating system, but a conversation about the strange, at least, behavior of some people, who have the permission to vote.
In the other hand, I must make it clear, that I didn’t start this thread for personal reasons or to accuse anything related with the functionality of the site, but I start it, because I saw a wrongdoing against some authors.
The phenomenon still goes on today subdued and it is not a system bug, but if you think that it is, ok, let it be.
We are not living in a perfect word and I have never expect, that a thread like this one, could change the bad and unfair behavior of some people.
P.S. I am writing all this, because I care and love this site, call WinCustomize, if you don’t mind.
Lecrayon
Reply #40 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 4:45 AM
Reply #40 Wednesday, July 3, 2002 4:45 AM
Paxx, I agree And Adni, patpat, friendly tap on your shoulder..Don't worry be happy
And Adni, patpat, friendly tap on your shoulder..Don't worry be happy Please login to comment and/or vote for this skin.
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Reply #21 Tuesday, July 2, 2002 5:10 PM
But it's true, i like very much some skins that are poor rated, and i don't undersand some "10" rattings