Okay, this must be considered a rip
Tuesday, June 18, 2002 by Ruthven | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I've been down this road before, but I'm pretty sure I merged into the right lane this time. Compare the newly-posted "XPMA" Dashboard theme from Manfred Amstutz with my "Windows XP for Pocket PC" Dashboard theme.
Sorry, but am I imagining things here? Yeah, he changed some of the icons around, but the layout, colors, and concept are nearly IDENTICAL! I mean, I thought this WAS my skin when I first looked at it.
I'd appreciate it if an admin here could either a) remove his skin, or
give me a compelling reason as to why it's not a rip and shouldn't be removed.
Sorry, but am I imagining things here? Yeah, he changed some of the icons around, but the layout, colors, and concept are nearly IDENTICAL! I mean, I thought this WAS my skin when I first looked at it.
I'd appreciate it if an admin here could either a) remove his skin, or
give me a compelling reason as to why it's not a rip and shouldn't be removed.
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grayhaze
Reply #22 Thursday, June 20, 2002 7:11 AM
Reply #22 Thursday, June 20, 2002 7:11 AM
Glen, a rip by definition is the stealing of another artist's graphics to create a new skin and taking credit for them. I too have examined these two skins side by side and apart from some similarities in layout (and only small similarities at that, given the constraints of the medium), I can see nothing that constitutes a rip. That is, unless you consider your own skin a rip of Windows XP?
As the others have said, if you don't like 'imitation', steer clear of OS-themed skins. Although I would argue that at most this person has simply taken inspiration from the layout of your skin and several other similarly laid out skins, and tried to make his own XP port with his own modifications.
Plenty of people use the same layout as my skins for their own, but you'll never see me calling them rips in a public forum. A rip is an act of stealing, not an act of inspiration. You should just be pleased that someone considered your way of doing things good enough to use as a starting point for their own creation.
I do find it slightly ironic that you're accusing someone of ripping your rip. That is, unless you made all of your graphics from scratch?
As the others have said, if you don't like 'imitation', steer clear of OS-themed skins. Although I would argue that at most this person has simply taken inspiration from the layout of your skin and several other similarly laid out skins, and tried to make his own XP port with his own modifications.
Plenty of people use the same layout as my skins for their own, but you'll never see me calling them rips in a public forum. A rip is an act of stealing, not an act of inspiration. You should just be pleased that someone considered your way of doing things good enough to use as a starting point for their own creation.
I do find it slightly ironic that you're accusing someone of ripping your rip. That is, unless you made all of your graphics from scratch?
Ruthven
Reply #23 Thursday, June 20, 2002 8:10 AM
Reply #23 Thursday, June 20, 2002 8:10 AM
Okay, once again: I've made my opinions clear. If anyone really wants further clarification, feel free to e-mail me, and I'll be happy to discuss it off the boards.
Grayhaze, I disagree with much of what you said. There is no concrete definition of a "rip." And I'm truly bothered that you have the audacity to call my XP skin a rip. Again, I never claim the graphics are my own design, but take a screenshot of anything in XP, without altering it, and show me how my skin is a rip.
Regardless of any opinions, it's obvious I could've handled this better. So now I'd like to go beyond "feel free to delete this thread," and just ask an admin: Would you please delete this thread? Nothing is gained by leaving it here.
Grayhaze, I disagree with much of what you said. There is no concrete definition of a "rip." And I'm truly bothered that you have the audacity to call my XP skin a rip. Again, I never claim the graphics are my own design, but take a screenshot of anything in XP, without altering it, and show me how my skin is a rip.
Regardless of any opinions, it's obvious I could've handled this better. So now I'd like to go beyond "feel free to delete this thread," and just ask an admin: Would you please delete this thread? Nothing is gained by leaving it here.
Jafo
Reply #24 Thursday, June 20, 2002 8:58 AM
Reply #24 Thursday, June 20, 2002 8:58 AM
Glen...quite a bit is gained from leaving this, as it is an open discussion on a specific example/problem with the use, and/or modification of an OS-based design becoming a 'port', for want of a better word.
The only sure-fire defense against arguments of coincidental creativity is to steer clear of Porting, and make absolutely certain that all of the work is 100% your own [not modded/restructured/redrawn OS-bits] so ANY AND EVERY 'similarity' can be 'quaranteed' to prove 'theft of copyright'.
I know it's hard, especially when you believe that your layout or 'placement' was truly original, but to others it could be seen to be simply 'logical', given the OS-base, and therefore very likely to be replicated independently. This happens often with LiteSTEP themes, for example....when there are only 4 sides to a screen to put a proggy bar, 25% of all skins will have the same 'location/layout' as mine.....and when Themers regularly cut and paste portions of Step.rc coding to enhance functionality, whatever, then often the specific layout of the bar can be similar....but if the actual graphics are used as well then we've entered the distinct realm of the 'rip', and easily definable...
Now, all this dissertation is for general public benefit.....to assist in the day-to-day management/understanding of how to handle/avoid issues of Ports and/or rips.....as we are all skinners here, dealing with skins/ports/rips/digital images/copyrights....every day.
The topic is important to us all, hence my unwillingness to remove the thread...
The only sure-fire defense against arguments of coincidental creativity is to steer clear of Porting, and make absolutely certain that all of the work is 100% your own [not modded/restructured/redrawn OS-bits] so ANY AND EVERY 'similarity' can be 'quaranteed' to prove 'theft of copyright'.
I know it's hard, especially when you believe that your layout or 'placement' was truly original, but to others it could be seen to be simply 'logical', given the OS-base, and therefore very likely to be replicated independently. This happens often with LiteSTEP themes, for example....when there are only 4 sides to a screen to put a proggy bar, 25% of all skins will have the same 'location/layout' as mine.....and when Themers regularly cut and paste portions of Step.rc coding to enhance functionality, whatever, then often the specific layout of the bar can be similar....but if the actual graphics are used as well then we've entered the distinct realm of the 'rip', and easily definable...
Now, all this dissertation is for general public benefit.....to assist in the day-to-day management/understanding of how to handle/avoid issues of Ports and/or rips.....as we are all skinners here, dealing with skins/ports/rips/digital images/copyrights....every day.
The topic is important to us all, hence my unwillingness to remove the thread...
Ruthven
Reply #25 Thursday, June 20, 2002 9:59 AM
Reply #25 Thursday, June 20, 2002 9:59 AM
I guess my desire to have this removed may have more to do with the way I'm coming across than the usefulness of the thread. 
I consider myself a reasonable person, above all. And I reasonably believe there's a difference between, say, a WB skin that emulates WinXP and a Dashboard skin that uses XP elements. But I also must admit, there are only so many ways to make an XP-styled skin for Dashboard.
The bottom line is that you're right, Jafo, I do have no right to complain when I am in fact using XP elements to begin with. I'll just have to take comfort in the fact (well, my opinion) that I've done a better job with it
I consider myself a reasonable person, above all. And I reasonably believe there's a difference between, say, a WB skin that emulates WinXP and a Dashboard skin that uses XP elements. But I also must admit, there are only so many ways to make an XP-styled skin for Dashboard.
The bottom line is that you're right, Jafo, I do have no right to complain when I am in fact using XP elements to begin with. I'll just have to take comfort in the fact (well, my opinion) that I've done a better job with it
Jafo
Reply #26 Thursday, June 20, 2002 10:22 AM
Reply #26 Thursday, June 20, 2002 10:22 AM
Glen...my personal opinion is that you did, too...[looks more 'polished']...
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Reply #21 Thursday, June 20, 2002 3:31 AM