I'm pissed
Saturday, May 18, 2002 by davad70 | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Ok, there are quite a few issues that have been on my mind for a while, and some newer ones that really have me irritated.
1. Why is it that lately this site seems to be disregarding the wishes of skinners more and more often? The majority of skinners, as well as many of the wizops/admins who are actually skinners, want to scrap the rating system. Do the wishes and requests of skinners matter to the people who run this site on this issue? Apparently not. I’ve also not come across a skinner who thinks that the libraries should be sorted by the date they were updated, but now they are. It was decided a ways back that the fair thing to do was to sort the libraries by create date. Now with the launch of WC2, we are back to sorting libraries by date of update. Why? Because Frogboy wants it that way. It doesn’t matter that most of the skinners want it another way. Frogboy wants…Frogboy gets.
2. We hear quite a lot about the heavy burden that Wincustomize has placed upon Stardock. We also hear quite a bit about how popular WC has become in the past year. I’m curious as to why this site has become so popular. Personally I think it’s popularity is mostly due to the fact that people can get skins from some of the best skinners in the world here, who give their skins freely. We also hear a lot about the fact that Wc needs to be able to support itself, and not be funded directly by Stardock. Yet it seems that Stardock will always be in control of this site and that it will never truly be a “community site”. So I ask, why shouldn’t Stardock pay for this site? It seems to me that this site is the greatest marketing tool that Stardock has. I would think that people buy Windowblinds and the other programs to be able to use the skins that they see on this site. So with the advent of the subscriber program what benefits do skinners get? Ummm, we get unlimited downloads just as we always have before. BTW, that’s the same benefit that OD (which I am also) users get also. So, the fact that I’ve submitted 15 skins since the first of the year gets me nothing. My contribution is apparently not better than Joe Blow downloader who paid $20. Joe Blow gets the skin browser, “exclusive suites”, etc. I get nothing but the privilege of downloading my skins as much as I want. J
3. Now to the issue that’s really got me pissed off to the degree that I finally am fed up. Anyone remember the GUI Olympics? Anyone remember the prizes that Frogboy stated that Honorable mention winners would receive? Let me refresh your memory. Anyone who picked up an honorable mention will get a free copy of Object Desktop (or a renewal), an Object Desktop sweat shirt, a T-shirt, a LWNinja T-shirt and some other goodies. Those who won multiple honorable mentions will be given additional Object Desktop renewals. posted by Lord Frogboy - 4/2/2002 1:07:58 PM. Well, I won an honorable mention and didn’t receive anything until I contacted them. They just forgot about me. That was no big deal to me, sometimes thing like that happen. So I got an email saying that my OD subscription was renewed and it was. Great right? Well, I waited about 2 weeks to get the other goodies that I had coming. Still didn’t get them, so I write back to ask when I would be getting all the other stuff. Basically I was told that they changed their mind and were not sending out any of the actual physical prizes. I then contacted some other skinners who won honorable mentions to see if they got their prizes. They all got their OD renewals, but no one got any of the other prizes for honorable mention prizes. After emailing Brad back he tells me that I should have gotten those other prizes (yes, I know that), and that he’ll check with the person who sent out the prizes to see whats going on. This is the same person that told me that there weren’t going to be any physical prizes given out for honorable mentions. Sounds very odd to me.
So….am I overreacting, or do I have a right to be a tad pissed?
1. Why is it that lately this site seems to be disregarding the wishes of skinners more and more often? The majority of skinners, as well as many of the wizops/admins who are actually skinners, want to scrap the rating system. Do the wishes and requests of skinners matter to the people who run this site on this issue? Apparently not. I’ve also not come across a skinner who thinks that the libraries should be sorted by the date they were updated, but now they are. It was decided a ways back that the fair thing to do was to sort the libraries by create date. Now with the launch of WC2, we are back to sorting libraries by date of update. Why? Because Frogboy wants it that way. It doesn’t matter that most of the skinners want it another way. Frogboy wants…Frogboy gets.
2. We hear quite a lot about the heavy burden that Wincustomize has placed upon Stardock. We also hear quite a bit about how popular WC has become in the past year. I’m curious as to why this site has become so popular. Personally I think it’s popularity is mostly due to the fact that people can get skins from some of the best skinners in the world here, who give their skins freely. We also hear a lot about the fact that Wc needs to be able to support itself, and not be funded directly by Stardock. Yet it seems that Stardock will always be in control of this site and that it will never truly be a “community site”. So I ask, why shouldn’t Stardock pay for this site? It seems to me that this site is the greatest marketing tool that Stardock has. I would think that people buy Windowblinds and the other programs to be able to use the skins that they see on this site. So with the advent of the subscriber program what benefits do skinners get? Ummm, we get unlimited downloads just as we always have before. BTW, that’s the same benefit that OD (which I am also) users get also. So, the fact that I’ve submitted 15 skins since the first of the year gets me nothing. My contribution is apparently not better than Joe Blow downloader who paid $20. Joe Blow gets the skin browser, “exclusive suites”, etc. I get nothing but the privilege of downloading my skins as much as I want. J
3. Now to the issue that’s really got me pissed off to the degree that I finally am fed up. Anyone remember the GUI Olympics? Anyone remember the prizes that Frogboy stated that Honorable mention winners would receive? Let me refresh your memory. Anyone who picked up an honorable mention will get a free copy of Object Desktop (or a renewal), an Object Desktop sweat shirt, a T-shirt, a LWNinja T-shirt and some other goodies. Those who won multiple honorable mentions will be given additional Object Desktop renewals. posted by Lord Frogboy - 4/2/2002 1:07:58 PM. Well, I won an honorable mention and didn’t receive anything until I contacted them. They just forgot about me. That was no big deal to me, sometimes thing like that happen. So I got an email saying that my OD subscription was renewed and it was. Great right? Well, I waited about 2 weeks to get the other goodies that I had coming. Still didn’t get them, so I write back to ask when I would be getting all the other stuff. Basically I was told that they changed their mind and were not sending out any of the actual physical prizes. I then contacted some other skinners who won honorable mentions to see if they got their prizes. They all got their OD renewals, but no one got any of the other prizes for honorable mention prizes. After emailing Brad back he tells me that I should have gotten those other prizes (yes, I know that), and that he’ll check with the person who sent out the prizes to see whats going on. This is the same person that told me that there weren’t going to be any physical prizes given out for honorable mentions. Sounds very odd to me.
So….am I overreacting, or do I have a right to be a tad pissed?
 |
|
Page 6 of 9 | |
|
|---|
Jafo
Reply #102 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 9:02 AM
Reply #102 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 9:02 AM
Here's another angle on Lies, damn lies, and statistics....if you gave each admin/wizop 100 voting rights [because admins are necessary], and each skinner 100 voting rights [because skinners obviously are necessary], and just 1 vote per User [because they 'contribute' less]....where would the counts for each group be, I wonder?...
That 80, 19, 1....would be a tad different, I bet...
That 80, 19, 1....would be a tad different, I bet...
Jafo
Reply #103 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 9:06 AM
Reply #103 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 9:06 AM
I'm guessing about 1000, 10,000, 500,000...rather than 1, 80, 19...
Just a thought...
Just a thought...
davad70
Reply #104 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 9:13 AM
Reply #104 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 9:13 AM
It's an interesting take jafo, I'll give you that.
However, You'd never get those 300,00 people to actually vote, as 99% of the users/consumers here don't participate in the community aspect(message board/polls, etc.) of this site.
How long has that age poll been up now? It's still only at 1100 votes. Compare that to how many visitors this site has had since the poll was posted. But....I would imagine that 99% of the skinners who frequent the site have voted.
How lon
However, You'd never get those 300,00 people to actually vote, as 99% of the users/consumers here don't participate in the community aspect(message board/polls, etc.) of this site.
How long has that age poll been up now? It's still only at 1100 votes. Compare that to how many visitors this site has had since the poll was posted. But....I would imagine that 99% of the skinners who frequent the site have voted.
How lon
feline
Reply #105 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 9:18 AM
Reply #105 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 9:18 AM
feline starts to get worried
this logic means i am being turned into a skinner by osmosis
feline wonders if it matters that i failed art at school
this logic means i am being turned into a skinner by osmosis
feline wonders if it matters that i failed art at school
CRUMBUT
Reply #106 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 10:06 AM
Reply #106 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 10:06 AM
welcome aboard feline we all start out as a "not so good skinner" 
we all start out as a "not so good skinner" 
CRUMBUT
Reply #108 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 10:11 AM
Reply #108 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 10:11 AM
Jafo, when were we talking about percentages as polls?
here is some quotes from me that I think you missed
". The admins/webmasters are equaly imporntant but basicly they are our reporters. They are the ones that are serving the content or better said, they provide us the equipment to serve our content. "
and
"what Im saying is if yer gonna say whos most imporntant in perctentages.. heres my take.
Developers and skinners:80% Users:19% admins:1%"
Note: the
were for being the 100th post
here is some quotes from me that I think you missed
". The admins/webmasters are equaly imporntant but basicly they are our reporters. They are the ones that are serving the content or better said, they provide us the equipment to serve our content. "
and
"what Im saying is if yer gonna say whos most imporntant in perctentages.. heres my take.
Developers and skinners:80% Users:19% admins:1%"
Note: the
were for being the 100th post
Jafo
Reply #109 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 10:32 AM
Reply #109 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 10:32 AM
Crum...
I was looking at the 3 categories and apportioning relative 'import' to each individual....implying a skinner had 100 times more say than a User....but when you do the math...even inflating a skinner's worth to 100 times that of a non-skinner....the sheer weight of numbers still will put users in a commanding position of 'relevance'....
I'm not talking 'polls', but 'relative importance/significance'...
I was looking at the 3 categories and apportioning relative 'import' to each individual....implying a skinner had 100 times more say than a User....but when you do the math...even inflating a skinner's worth to 100 times that of a non-skinner....the sheer weight of numbers still will put users in a commanding position of 'relevance'....
I'm not talking 'polls', but 'relative importance/significance'...
TasT
Reply #111 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 10:35 AM
Reply #111 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 10:35 AM
TasT gets on his soap box
Many of the points in this thread I have debated over and over. Ratings are abused by some that have the right to rate. For instance I have a WB skin that got some excellent comments and was once rated at a 7 or so and is now @ a 1? I don't get it. No the skin is not perfect it was one of the first to support the XP features and Information on skinning them was scarce. I personally do not rate a skin down from the default or admin given rating unless it has problems working correctly. I do not rate negativly on it's appearance, If I did then all the skins that use the XP large buttons and flashy colors of OS X would be rated low by me. If a skin sparks my intrest or is outstanding in appearance I rate above the default rating if the skin works properly. This is probably because I have a different outlook on the world than most. I am color deficient ( which explains why most of my skins are grayscale) which makes some color combinations people use appear displeasing to me while some that appear displeasing to the masses I enjoy.
WinCusto is not a community ran site and I doubt that it ever will be. This is fine with me. I do though get tired of listing to Brad whine about bandwidth costs. are they high I bet so but, as I have pointed out in the past, When skinz.org was around my skins would recieve 2 to 3 times the downloads at stardocks skin site than skinz.org so the bandwith cost has always been there, I am sure that it has went up in the past year, but so has the popularity of WB and other skinnable programs, hence stardocks profits have to have increased also.
Which leads me to the skin browser, If everyone used it the average bandwidth use of the site would go down. So for stardock it is a win win situation, collect $20 for the program and then reap the benifits of reduced bandwidth. My suggestion would be to give the skin browser to registered ODNT members, offer it at a reduced cost to anyone that has registered any stardock product and then charge the full $20 for anyone who doesn't fit the above catagories. I would love to use the browser but I have little intrest in the other benifits of being a Wincusto supporter, Like Jafo I generally use my own skins and therefore have no use for the fancy skin packs ( they are normally to flashy for me). Alas I will probably subscribe but will be hopeing that stardock contracts essorant for a skin suite.
As far as the stuff for honorable mention in the GUI olympics stardock has already said they will even up with everyone. Isuggest that we have another round of gui olympics but this time ensure that all bases are covered on the website ( prizes etc...) before hand. Brad just ignore all the bashers.
I do appreciate stardock and Brad but the constant drain on my pocket book is getting to be a little much, The programs are worth every penny and probably more but, the whining about the site is getting old. We realize that it takes a lot of money to run a site, I just had to shut one down that had only about 100 pages left up becaue the bandwidth usage was still way up even though the admin group had not updated the site in near a year.
TasT steps off the soapbox.
Many of the points in this thread I have debated over and over. Ratings are abused by some that have the right to rate. For instance I have a WB skin that got some excellent comments and was once rated at a 7 or so and is now @ a 1? I don't get it. No the skin is not perfect it was one of the first to support the XP features and Information on skinning them was scarce. I personally do not rate a skin down from the default or admin given rating unless it has problems working correctly. I do not rate negativly on it's appearance, If I did then all the skins that use the XP large buttons and flashy colors of OS X would be rated low by me. If a skin sparks my intrest or is outstanding in appearance I rate above the default rating if the skin works properly. This is probably because I have a different outlook on the world than most. I am color deficient ( which explains why most of my skins are grayscale) which makes some color combinations people use appear displeasing to me while some that appear displeasing to the masses I enjoy.
WinCusto is not a community ran site and I doubt that it ever will be. This is fine with me. I do though get tired of listing to Brad whine about bandwidth costs. are they high I bet so but, as I have pointed out in the past, When skinz.org was around my skins would recieve 2 to 3 times the downloads at stardocks skin site than skinz.org so the bandwith cost has always been there, I am sure that it has went up in the past year, but so has the popularity of WB and other skinnable programs, hence stardocks profits have to have increased also.
Which leads me to the skin browser, If everyone used it the average bandwidth use of the site would go down. So for stardock it is a win win situation, collect $20 for the program and then reap the benifits of reduced bandwidth. My suggestion would be to give the skin browser to registered ODNT members, offer it at a reduced cost to anyone that has registered any stardock product and then charge the full $20 for anyone who doesn't fit the above catagories. I would love to use the browser but I have little intrest in the other benifits of being a Wincusto supporter, Like Jafo I generally use my own skins and therefore have no use for the fancy skin packs ( they are normally to flashy for me). Alas I will probably subscribe but will be hopeing that stardock contracts essorant for a skin suite.
As far as the stuff for honorable mention in the GUI olympics stardock has already said they will even up with everyone. Isuggest that we have another round of gui olympics but this time ensure that all bases are covered on the website ( prizes etc...) before hand. Brad just ignore all the bashers.
I do appreciate stardock and Brad but the constant drain on my pocket book is getting to be a little much, The programs are worth every penny and probably more but, the whining about the site is getting old. We realize that it takes a lot of money to run a site, I just had to shut one down that had only about 100 pages left up becaue the bandwidth usage was still way up even though the admin group had not updated the site in near a year.
TasT steps off the soapbox.
T-Man
Reply #112 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 10:39 AM
Reply #112 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 10:39 AM
I'm not trying to say that because the skinners only represent 1% of the use base here that they should only get 1% of they say. Not by any means am I saying that.
But what I am trying to say is that some of the skinners feel that the admins are completely ignoring the skinners wishes. And that is false. We are not ignoring you. Matter of fact we listen to your wishes all the time and quite often react on them. However, in the case of the rating system we have a big disagreement on how it should work. We have listened, and we have made adjustments based on your concerns (which everyone seems to forget). However, we have not implemented EVERY suggestion. So, lets say conerns A, B , C and brought forward, we react and make adjustments that effect concerns A and B. But just because we disagree on C doesnt mean that we are 'Ignoring' the concerns of the Skinners. It means we disagree.
I'm just trying to get everyone to see the perspective from all angles. We have all discussed the 'Admin' viewpoint and the 'Skinner' viewpoint. But up until my post I don't think most people ever considered the 'User' viewpoint.
I don't think it should be Admins vs Skinners. But that seems to be the way its turning out. Or at least Stardock vs Skinners anyway.
You know what I would love to see. Instead of people telling each other that the other persons way is wrong and their way is right, is to have people try to work together and solve issues instead of create them. The motto "If you do not have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all" goes along way.
If you see a problem, notify us. If you have a suggestion, offer it. But don't cast blame.
But what I am trying to say is that some of the skinners feel that the admins are completely ignoring the skinners wishes. And that is false. We are not ignoring you. Matter of fact we listen to your wishes all the time and quite often react on them. However, in the case of the rating system we have a big disagreement on how it should work. We have listened, and we have made adjustments based on your concerns (which everyone seems to forget). However, we have not implemented EVERY suggestion. So, lets say conerns A, B , C and brought forward, we react and make adjustments that effect concerns A and B. But just because we disagree on C doesnt mean that we are 'Ignoring' the concerns of the Skinners. It means we disagree.
I'm just trying to get everyone to see the perspective from all angles. We have all discussed the 'Admin' viewpoint and the 'Skinner' viewpoint. But up until my post I don't think most people ever considered the 'User' viewpoint.
I don't think it should be Admins vs Skinners. But that seems to be the way its turning out. Or at least Stardock vs Skinners anyway.
You know what I would love to see. Instead of people telling each other that the other persons way is wrong and their way is right, is to have people try to work together and solve issues instead of create them. The motto "If you do not have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all" goes along way.
If you see a problem, notify us. If you have a suggestion, offer it. But don't cast blame.
craeonics
Reply #113 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 10:57 AM
Reply #113 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 10:57 AM
I'm at 30% of the thread at the moment, but have to spill before I forget.
Think of Frogboy what you want, but if I had to put up with about half the shit I see him umm, catch (?), I would've pulled the plug, sold the biz and moved on to more interesting frontiers.
craeonics goes read the other 70%, where was I?
Think of Frogboy what you want, but if I had to put up with about half the shit I see him umm, catch (?), I would've pulled the plug, sold the biz and moved on to more interesting frontiers.
craeonics goes read the other 70%, where was I?
TasT
Reply #114 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 11:03 AM
Reply #114 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 11:03 AM
Agreed Cra but remember Brad likes to debate and causes probably 40% or more himself!
craeonics
Reply #115 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 11:20 AM
Reply #115 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 11:20 AM
craeonics is at 60%
Crumbut has a point too though.
Crumbut has a point too though.
craeonics
Reply #116 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 11:22 AM
Reply #116 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 11:22 AM
craeonics thinks TasT speaks wise words
But on the other hand, you can't expend the guy to just pass on this, right? Then again, maybe you can. Things get complicated when they get personal.
But on the other hand, you can't expend the guy to just pass on this, right? Then again, maybe you can. Things get complicated when they get personal.
craeonics
Reply #117 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 11:53 AM
Reply #117 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 11:53 AM
craeonics read it all
Users? Screw 'em. I would very much welcome a return to that mutual-admiration society. Download counts, ratings, all nonsense. What matters is the creative process. People who are in it for the users, should reflect on whether they are in it to provide a service to the users or for their own personal glory.
All that, and a small post too.
craeonics heads home
Users? Screw 'em. I would very much welcome a return to that mutual-admiration society. Download counts, ratings, all nonsense. What matters is the creative process. People who are in it for the users, should reflect on whether they are in it to provide a service to the users or for their own personal glory.
All that, and a small post too.
craeonics heads home
Frogboy
Reply #118 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 12:01 PM
Reply #118 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 12:01 PM
Just a few minor points:
Me bringing up the costs of this site is not "whining". What I am trying to do is create awareness. Because there seems to be a disturbing lack of basic economic common sense in our "community".
When you have people trying to say that this site is a "marketing" channel that pays for itself in sales, it just brings home the point that more awareness needs to be created about how expensive this site is. When a plurality of people stop making uneducated remarks about how thsi site's a marketing channel or how it's wrong to have subscriptions because we're "profiting" off of the skinners, then I won't see the necessity of having to point out the real world costs of this site. Too many people seem to live in a fantasy land in which skin sites are some sort of easy to do thing.
Similarly, I see too many skinners behaving as if we admins are their servants or something. I see too many users treating us as tech support people.
There has to be a balance between skin authors, users, admins, and developers. As I said previously, when one group feels they are superior to the others, then strife will ensue. And usually, it's certain skin authors who seem to believe that they are more important than all other groups combined. All groups need one another. It's a symbiotic relationship. And the needs of all groups need to be respected and considered.
That is why we've held fast on the ratings. We know that users generally like them. We know the admins generally like them (Paxx doesn't but others including myself and T-man do). We know some skin authors don't like them, probably even a majority. But the rating system has been here since day 1. It's not something we just popped up on people one day.
Regarding volunteerism. I do make myself a target of personal attacks because of my availability and strong opinions. That said, it definitely decreases my willingness to expend personal time to help "the community". The GUI Olympics was essentially a volunteer effort (most work on it was done on weekends). Much of what you see on this site is a volunteer effort by the admins (who are not paid for their efforts and rarely thanked). And the features and programming (which is done by Stardock personnel on salary) I think most agree go well beyond what is minimally required for a skin library. Without the wizops here who work hard daily to run this site, it would not be possible. I find it troubling how much for granted they are taken and how much abuse they sometimes receive.
The smearing of volunteers is really ironic because it usually comes from the most anti-corporate-involvement crowd. Yet they don't trace the logical conclusion of their abuse - eventually they will discourage volunteerism and require sites to pay compensation of some kind. Then you're talking required pay subscriptions. It's already happening - Gamespot.com, the most popular game site on the net, now requires subscriptions to view most of the content. Volunteerism is the single biggest reason why WinCustomize is still free. Don't take it for granted.
Me bringing up the costs of this site is not "whining". What I am trying to do is create awareness. Because there seems to be a disturbing lack of basic economic common sense in our "community".
When you have people trying to say that this site is a "marketing" channel that pays for itself in sales, it just brings home the point that more awareness needs to be created about how expensive this site is. When a plurality of people stop making uneducated remarks about how thsi site's a marketing channel or how it's wrong to have subscriptions because we're "profiting" off of the skinners, then I won't see the necessity of having to point out the real world costs of this site. Too many people seem to live in a fantasy land in which skin sites are some sort of easy to do thing.
Similarly, I see too many skinners behaving as if we admins are their servants or something. I see too many users treating us as tech support people.
There has to be a balance between skin authors, users, admins, and developers. As I said previously, when one group feels they are superior to the others, then strife will ensue. And usually, it's certain skin authors who seem to believe that they are more important than all other groups combined. All groups need one another. It's a symbiotic relationship. And the needs of all groups need to be respected and considered.
That is why we've held fast on the ratings. We know that users generally like them. We know the admins generally like them (Paxx doesn't but others including myself and T-man do). We know some skin authors don't like them, probably even a majority. But the rating system has been here since day 1. It's not something we just popped up on people one day.
Regarding volunteerism. I do make myself a target of personal attacks because of my availability and strong opinions. That said, it definitely decreases my willingness to expend personal time to help "the community". The GUI Olympics was essentially a volunteer effort (most work on it was done on weekends). Much of what you see on this site is a volunteer effort by the admins (who are not paid for their efforts and rarely thanked). And the features and programming (which is done by Stardock personnel on salary) I think most agree go well beyond what is minimally required for a skin library. Without the wizops here who work hard daily to run this site, it would not be possible. I find it troubling how much for granted they are taken and how much abuse they sometimes receive.
The smearing of volunteers is really ironic because it usually comes from the most anti-corporate-involvement crowd. Yet they don't trace the logical conclusion of their abuse - eventually they will discourage volunteerism and require sites to pay compensation of some kind. Then you're talking required pay subscriptions. It's already happening - Gamespot.com, the most popular game site on the net, now requires subscriptions to view most of the content. Volunteerism is the single biggest reason why WinCustomize is still free. Don't take it for granted.
CRUMBUT
Reply #119 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 12:51 PM
Reply #119 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 12:51 PM
back to the art gallery argument. lets put this in perspective.
I am a painter, I paint pretty pictures. I take my art to the gallery to hang up and possibly sell. They tell me, you need to pay us (the gallery) to display your work here. Not bad actualy cause I may get paid if this stuff sells. "Cooool" I say.
well, Im not selling my skins. I wont get paid. I guess I can hang them in a different gallery or hang em up at my house.
Another factor.
To make this picture (skin) I need a canvas. So I go buy a canvas to paint on (WB). The canvas guy gets my bucks. Since I made this art on his canvas and I do a pretty good job, manny people want to buy his canvases. He gets paid more. and now the canvas guy owns a gallery. and He wants me to pay him to display my work? hehe
Dont take it personal Brad or any other SD people.. its just a common perception.
I am a painter, I paint pretty pictures. I take my art to the gallery to hang up and possibly sell. They tell me, you need to pay us (the gallery) to display your work here. Not bad actualy cause I may get paid if this stuff sells. "Cooool" I say.
well, Im not selling my skins. I wont get paid. I guess I can hang them in a different gallery or hang em up at my house.
Another factor.
To make this picture (skin) I need a canvas. So I go buy a canvas to paint on (WB). The canvas guy gets my bucks. Since I made this art on his canvas and I do a pretty good job, manny people want to buy his canvases. He gets paid more. and now the canvas guy owns a gallery. and He wants me to pay him to display my work? hehe
Dont take it personal Brad or any other SD people.. its just a common perception.
TasT
Reply #120 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 1:30 PM
Reply #120 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 1:30 PM
1. I don't take the site for granted and I know that the most of what I percieve as whining by Brad is a not really pointed at me it's pointed at the newer members of the community, some of which are young and really don't understand the TCI of a skin site. From the internets origions in the early 90's we were taught that everything should be free and for some it's hard to see that the decline in revenue for internet advertizing and the rise in bakdwidth costs are causing the current delima, As I said earlier I recently shut down a site mainly because the cost was severly outweighing the profit or even the fringe benifits of haveing the site.
2. Crumbut speaketh the truth
3. Stardock is not taking the "FREE" site away from anyone, they simply will be limiting downloads for non customers. ( though this does make good arguement for this site being a necessary marketing tool for stardock)
4. The skin browser will be a worthwhile $20 for anyone involved with the site or stardock when it incorperates the message board, Newsgroups and access the stardock IRC server. Thus taking the support posts off the message board. Though reading through the posts about the browser it seems like it is an extention of winstyles.
5. Help issues need to be directed to the news groups, I remember way back when, when I started using stardock products and there was no help except the NG's and it was great. NOt only would it rid the site of help posts but it would also force the younger crowd to learn abot NGs.
6. I appreciate each and every one of the stardock folks, yes even you brad ( even though your typing fingers get the better of you sometimes), and all of the Wincusto admins and wizops. I have even considered stoping by on one of my jaunts up north..
Jeeeesh, I'm begining to post like Froggy; someone Quick I need a beer.....
2. Crumbut speaketh the truth
3. Stardock is not taking the "FREE" site away from anyone, they simply will be limiting downloads for non customers. ( though this does make good arguement for this site being a necessary marketing tool for stardock)
4. The skin browser will be a worthwhile $20 for anyone involved with the site or stardock when it incorperates the message board, Newsgroups and access the stardock IRC server. Thus taking the support posts off the message board. Though reading through the posts about the browser it seems like it is an extention of winstyles.
5. Help issues need to be directed to the news groups, I remember way back when, when I started using stardock products and there was no help except the NG's and it was great. NOt only would it rid the site of help posts but it would also force the younger crowd to learn abot NGs.
6. I appreciate each and every one of the stardock folks, yes even you brad ( even though your typing fingers get the better of you sometimes), and all of the Wincusto admins and wizops. I have even considered stoping by on one of my jaunts up north..
Jeeeesh, I'm begining to post like Froggy; someone Quick I need a beer.....
Please login to comment and/or vote for this skin.
Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
- Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums and downloading skins.
- Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
- Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
- It's simple, and FREE!
|
|
Page 6 of 9 | |
|
|---|
Reply #101 Tuesday, May 21, 2002 8:26 AM
craeonics goes read from the top