Have you thought?
Tuesday, May 7, 2002 by adni18 | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Have you thought to make some improvements for the system rating in the version 2 of WinCustomize?
What is the use of it, if the authors doesn't know why they get 10 from someone and after 1 from someone else for the same work and in the same day?
As the comments are not anonymous why the ratings must be anonymous and without a small comment giving the reason of the rate?
I think that the rating system is the only black point in WinCustomize and it has to be fixed. So, much work from all sides and the result is not the one that we all expecting, for many well known reasons.
Do you care about the authors of this site? Please give us a sign that you care.
I didn't want to say anything personal in this thread, but I will:
I am mad with this system rating that gives a change to some persons to express their lower self’s.
What is the use of it, if the authors doesn't know why they get 10 from someone and after 1 from someone else for the same work and in the same day?
As the comments are not anonymous why the ratings must be anonymous and without a small comment giving the reason of the rate?
I think that the rating system is the only black point in WinCustomize and it has to be fixed. So, much work from all sides and the result is not the one that we all expecting, for many well known reasons.
Do you care about the authors of this site? Please give us a sign that you care.
I didn't want to say anything personal in this thread, but I will:
I am mad with this system rating that gives a change to some persons to express their lower self’s.
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paxx
Reply #22 Tuesday, May 7, 2002 10:26 PM
Reply #22 Tuesday, May 7, 2002 10:26 PM
No, as I said, I don't think ratings should show who rated. Because then people won't score low and crappy skins will get good ratings.
No, every way I think of it, ratings are no good.
No, every way I think of it, ratings are no good.
chichigirl46
Reply #23 Tuesday, May 7, 2002 10:38 PM
Reply #23 Tuesday, May 7, 2002 10:38 PM
I never have seen nor would I ever call any one's skin crappy paxx, that is hard work as a newbie, and or maybe there taste is different then your taste........ but I don't see any one here giving skins that are deserving, the rates they deserve, only a few exceptions never have the prblem happening to their skins........ if moderation feels skins should not be here to save bandwidth then don't approve the skin in the first place, not by hiding behind rating the skin......
Jafo
Reply #24 Tuesday, May 7, 2002 11:42 PM
Reply #24 Tuesday, May 7, 2002 11:42 PM
OK, so perhaps it's the public's accessibility to the ratings that's No Good[tm], and if there is to be a filtration system it should be transparent to the site users/contributors.
[What you can't see won't hurt you]....
I thought the public/community involvement in 'all' aspects of the site's management would be seen as a Good Thing[tm], but if there are miscreants abusing their privileges via vindictive or spiteful 'ratings', rather than via accountable 'comments', then maybe things DO have to change.
Maybe I, for one, am misguided in my faith and confidence that fellow skinners and artists with the capacity to rate submissions would do so conscientiously, and not use them to carry out some obscure grudge-war or whatever against their peers....
[What you can't see won't hurt you]....
I thought the public/community involvement in 'all' aspects of the site's management would be seen as a Good Thing[tm], but if there are miscreants abusing their privileges via vindictive or spiteful 'ratings', rather than via accountable 'comments', then maybe things DO have to change.
Maybe I, for one, am misguided in my faith and confidence that fellow skinners and artists with the capacity to rate submissions would do so conscientiously, and not use them to carry out some obscure grudge-war or whatever against their peers....
Koasati
Reply #25 Tuesday, May 7, 2002 11:44 PM
Reply #25 Tuesday, May 7, 2002 11:44 PM
There's the problem chichi.........the only thing we have go on, if we rate something, is our own taste.
And Paxx is right again.........ratings are of no value.
If there's a bandwidth problem, maybe the admins need to get tougher of what gets through moderation.
And Paxx is right again.........ratings are of no value.
If there's a bandwidth problem, maybe the admins need to get tougher of what gets through moderation.
Koasati
Reply #26 Tuesday, May 7, 2002 11:49 PM
Reply #26 Tuesday, May 7, 2002 11:49 PM
Jafo.........if ratings are simply a filtration system, then maybe you guy really should get tougher on submissions.
adni18
Reply #27 Wednesday, May 8, 2002 2:38 AM
Reply #27 Wednesday, May 8, 2002 2:38 AM
A summary of the opinions briefly.
paxx says: get rid of them, they are useless
migellito says: not pay attention to the rating
treetog says: I don´t give a crap about ratings
feline says: i can see the point in the ratings
c242 says: ...the rating is still anonymous. Theres no use for that
jcg says: not accept ratings that are not accompanied by a comment
WiseOldMan says: I agree. There needs to be some sort of accountability in the rating system
chichigirl46 says: every time I try being part of this message board some one goes immediately and lowers my skin ratings
Jafo says: if there are miscreants abusing their privileges via vindictive or spiteful 'ratings', rather than via accountable 'comments', then maybe things DO have to change.
Koasati says: ratings are of no value
.........................I am wondering what Brad says?
paxx says: get rid of them, they are useless
migellito says: not pay attention to the rating
treetog says: I don´t give a crap about ratings
feline says: i can see the point in the ratings
c242 says: ...the rating is still anonymous. Theres no use for that
jcg says: not accept ratings that are not accompanied by a comment
WiseOldMan says: I agree. There needs to be some sort of accountability in the rating system
chichigirl46 says: every time I try being part of this message board some one goes immediately and lowers my skin ratings
Jafo says: if there are miscreants abusing their privileges via vindictive or spiteful 'ratings', rather than via accountable 'comments', then maybe things DO have to change.
Koasati says: ratings are of no value
.........................I am wondering what Brad says?
Alexandrie
Reply #28 Wednesday, May 8, 2002 8:25 AM
Reply #28 Wednesday, May 8, 2002 8:25 AM
are you serious adni? you wonder what Brad says? 
I thought you already know, he made things really clear about ratings
I thought you already know, he made things really clear about ratings
kith
Reply #29 Wednesday, May 8, 2002 8:40 AM
Reply #29 Wednesday, May 8, 2002 8:40 AM
Brad says: "... it works remarkably well on the whole."
kith
Reply #30 Wednesday, May 8, 2002 8:53 AM
Reply #30 Wednesday, May 8, 2002 8:53 AM
Two points about ratings I don't understand:
1) How can the Admins not know who rated what? By this I mean you can only rate a skin once, the server knows not to let you do it twice. The info isn't stored on your cookie. It has to be there somewhere.
2) Why not require a comment when rating. It would be "semi" annonymous, yet require some accountability. People would not be as likely to "tank" someone elses work with a one vote purely for personal reasons.
This is a really interesting thread. Everyone seems to have a slightly different response, yet they are all similiar. Most of the Admins on this site have no use for ratings, so why are they here...
1) How can the Admins not know who rated what? By this I mean you can only rate a skin once, the server knows not to let you do it twice. The info isn't stored on your cookie. It has to be there somewhere.
2) Why not require a comment when rating. It would be "semi" annonymous, yet require some accountability. People would not be as likely to "tank" someone elses work with a one vote purely for personal reasons.
This is a really interesting thread. Everyone seems to have a slightly different response, yet they are all similiar. Most of the Admins on this site have no use for ratings, so why are they here...
paxx
Reply #31 Wednesday, May 8, 2002 9:39 AM
Reply #31 Wednesday, May 8, 2002 9:39 AM
Bill, most admins don't care about them (meaning the ratings could be there or not they wouldn't care), but there are one or two admins against them and one or two admins in favour of them. So, we are quite divided on the topic. 
Bottom line though: Brad likes them.
Bottom line though: Brad likes them.
Ruthven
Reply #32 Wednesday, May 8, 2002 10:11 AM
Reply #32 Wednesday, May 8, 2002 10:11 AM
The ratings on here -- and by that, I mean the results of the ratings themselves, and not the system -- has never made much sense to me. Most of my skins with high download numbers have low ratings.
What concerns me is that most of my skins have 1 rating, which as far as I'm aware is put there by the admin that posts the skin. So the casual user that's allegedly sorting stuff by rating to decide what to dl is seeing the opinion of just a handful of people.
Bottom line is I don't think the ratings system gets used enough to make a difference. But if it has to be kept, how about an "average rating given" stat on people's author page. Keeps ratings anonymous, but discourages people from trashing everyone's skins.
What concerns me is that most of my skins have 1 rating, which as far as I'm aware is put there by the admin that posts the skin. So the casual user that's allegedly sorting stuff by rating to decide what to dl is seeing the opinion of just a handful of people.
Bottom line is I don't think the ratings system gets used enough to make a difference. But if it has to be kept, how about an "average rating given" stat on people's author page. Keeps ratings anonymous, but discourages people from trashing everyone's skins.
feline
Reply #33 Wednesday, May 8, 2002 10:20 AM
Reply #33 Wednesday, May 8, 2002 10:20 AM
chichigirl46 - When I gave my view point on this new browser coming out and some one here don't like my view point, the reaction should not have anything to do with my skins, but every time I try being part of this message board some one goes immediately and lowers my skin ratings.......
feline *shocked*
i didnt realize that this was happening.
the active people on the message boards seem to be above that sort of childish behaviour.
taking issue with your point of view is one thing, but this should be discussed. there is nothing wrong with two people having differing opinions. this is part of the definition of people, no two totaly alike.
have you emailed one of the admins with an example of this?
perhaps they would be willing to reset the ratings on the effected skins?
feline *shocked*
i didnt realize that this was happening.
the active people on the message boards seem to be above that sort of childish behaviour.
taking issue with your point of view is one thing, but this should be discussed. there is nothing wrong with two people having differing opinions. this is part of the definition of people, no two totaly alike.
have you emailed one of the admins with an example of this?
perhaps they would be willing to reset the ratings on the effected skins?
feline
Reply #34 Wednesday, May 8, 2002 10:23 AM
Reply #34 Wednesday, May 8, 2002 10:23 AM
as i understand it part of the reason for the raitings is to help limit the bandwidth this site uses.
if you had to pay for the ever increasing bandwidth, then you to might like anything that helped to keep it in check?
if you had to pay for the ever increasing bandwidth, then you to might like anything that helped to keep it in check?
migellito
Reply #35 Wednesday, May 8, 2002 11:40 AM
Reply #35 Wednesday, May 8, 2002 11:40 AM
hi adni in your list of people's opinions, mine is taken out of context. i am in favor of the ratings. i just don't think the -artists- should pay attention to them. i -do- think the downloaders should pay attention to them.
i realize it's easy to get discouraged. an artist -must- be able to look at critiques and take what they can from them. a critique is like a salad bar. you take what you want and leave the rest. some ideas you learn from, some ideas you leave behind, and your work may or may not improve in your opinion, or in the eyes of others. either way, it will evolve, as the work of all artists does.
with this in mind, remember that the rating number is a critique -so- limited in information that an artist can really learn nothing from it. they are not for the artists. they are for the downloaders and to provide a measure of bandwidth assistance.
in your list of people's opinions, mine is taken out of context. i am in favor of the ratings. i just don't think the -artists- should pay attention to them. i -do- think the downloaders should pay attention to them.i realize it's easy to get discouraged. an artist -must- be able to look at critiques and take what they can from them. a critique is like a salad bar. you take what you want and leave the rest. some ideas you learn from, some ideas you leave behind, and your work may or may not improve in your opinion, or in the eyes of others. either way, it will evolve, as the work of all artists does.
with this in mind, remember that the rating number is a critique -so- limited in information that an artist can really learn nothing from it. they are not for the artists. they are for the downloaders and to provide a measure of bandwidth assistance.
adni18
Reply #36 Wednesday, May 8, 2002 1:57 PM
Reply #36 Wednesday, May 8, 2002 1:57 PM
So, migellito, you are one of them, hmmmm 
(j/k)
If you read carefully all my threads, you will find out that I never said anything about removing the system rating, because I know that Brad insist in this, I only said IMPROVE IT!
Also, it has nothing to do with the bandwidth, because almost all the people are downloading "by date" or by "downloads" and very rarely "by rating".
But the most important part about ratings is the folowing:
IF the ratings were only critiques then everything it is OK, but the most of them ARE NOT, jealousy, antagonism, personal antipathies etc, are the causes of most of the ratings! This is the weak part of the existent Rating System. That is why I am trying for the betterment of it.
Please, think about it.
(j/k)If you read carefully all my threads, you will find out that I never said anything about removing the system rating, because I know that Brad insist in this, I only said IMPROVE IT!
Also, it has nothing to do with the bandwidth, because almost all the people are downloading "by date" or by "downloads" and very rarely "by rating".
But the most important part about ratings is the folowing:
IF the ratings were only critiques then everything it is OK, but the most of them ARE NOT, jealousy, antagonism, personal antipathies etc, are the causes of most of the ratings! This is the weak part of the existent Rating System. That is why I am trying for the betterment of it.
Please, think about it.
adni18
Reply #37 Wednesday, May 8, 2002 2:18 PM
Reply #37 Wednesday, May 8, 2002 2:18 PM
Johanne, (Hi! )
Of course I am serius,in fact I am always serius and I know what Brad thinks about ratings, I have all ready said it, in my previous threads.
But, I also know that he said something about "close minded people that they just want their views to be accepted as fact" and I can't believe that he is one of them, thats why I am still trying.
)Of course I am serius,in fact I am always serius and I know what Brad thinks about ratings, I have all ready said it, in my previous threads.
But, I also know that he said something about "close minded people that they just want their views to be accepted as fact" and I can't believe that he is one of them, thats why I am still trying.
GreenReaper
Reply #38 Wednesday, May 8, 2002 3:35 PM
Reply #38 Wednesday, May 8, 2002 3:35 PM
GreenReaper grins in an evil manner
Maybe you should go and rate Brad's stuff down without posting comments and see if the system improves in accountability?
Maybe you should go and rate Brad's stuff down without posting comments and see if the system improves in accountability?
Jafo
Reply #40 Wednesday, May 8, 2002 6:02 PM
Reply #40 Wednesday, May 8, 2002 6:02 PM
OK...so it's simole.
We must have more ratings per submission to better reflect public attitude/opinion of the piece.
We must police those who are using the rating system to get at other skinners/artists.
How about locking all prieviews to REQUIRE a rating before they can be closed...[is that feasible in the coding?]
Make the Ratings non-anonymous. That will 'force' people to be a bit more responsible....vindictive low scores, as well as fauning high scores 'should' both cease....[at least to some degree].
Maybe the 'peer' part of the rating system could be also coded in specifically....If you have a skin submitted at the site, you are 'made' to post ratings on skin views in the coding, if you do not have skins here, you are not 'required' to rate.
I'm still reminded of the function coded into Litestep.net which gave the themer the option of just who would be allowed to comment and/or 'rate' your themes....fellow themers only, or 'anyone'.
The former was great for genuinely 'constructive' comment, the latter if you really 'wanted' to hear from the 'brat-pack'...the 1337 f1337....
We must have more ratings per submission to better reflect public attitude/opinion of the piece.
We must police those who are using the rating system to get at other skinners/artists.
How about locking all prieviews to REQUIRE a rating before they can be closed...[is that feasible in the coding?]
Make the Ratings non-anonymous. That will 'force' people to be a bit more responsible....vindictive low scores, as well as fauning high scores 'should' both cease....[at least to some degree].
Maybe the 'peer' part of the rating system could be also coded in specifically....If you have a skin submitted at the site, you are 'made' to post ratings on skin views in the coding, if you do not have skins here, you are not 'required' to rate.
I'm still reminded of the function coded into Litestep.net which gave the themer the option of just who would be allowed to comment and/or 'rate' your themes....fellow themers only, or 'anyone'.
The former was great for genuinely 'constructive' comment, the latter if you really 'wanted' to hear from the 'brat-pack'...the 1337 f1337....
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Reply #21 Tuesday, May 7, 2002 10:11 PM