The Old Guard vs. New Blood
Wednesday, May 1, 2002 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I originally wrote this on Deskmod but wanted to hear your views...
Deskmod's poll on how long youv'e been using skins is really encouraging.
The results so far:
I'm new: (>1 year): 36%
Experienced (1-2 years): 29%
Elder: (3-4 years): 23%
Old guard (4+): 12%
As someone who fits into the oldie (been skinning UI's since 1991 and professionally since 1995) it's really encouraging to see that it's a growing thing.
It always bugs me when people try to compare computers to toasters or some other appliance. I don't know about you but I don't spend hours using a toaster (unless my wife is out of town ).
Of all the things that we personalize, cars, phones, homes, etc. it's odd that making computers personalized to how we use them isn't even a bigger phenomenon. As someone who spends more hours in front of the computer than I care to admit, I can't imagine tweaking it to work the way I want. And believe me, my desktops get pretty crazy depending on what I"m doing that week.
36% of users being new. Now that's the best thing I've heard in awhile.
Anyone care to venture a prediction on whether skinning (extreme computer personalization) will become so common and mainstream that people will take it for granted?
Well, gotta go, something's burning in the toaster!
Deskmod's poll on how long youv'e been using skins is really encouraging.
The results so far:
I'm new: (>1 year): 36%
Experienced (1-2 years): 29%
Elder: (3-4 years): 23%
Old guard (4+): 12%
As someone who fits into the oldie (been skinning UI's since 1991 and professionally since 1995) it's really encouraging to see that it's a growing thing.
It always bugs me when people try to compare computers to toasters or some other appliance. I don't know about you but I don't spend hours using a toaster (unless my wife is out of town ).
Of all the things that we personalize, cars, phones, homes, etc. it's odd that making computers personalized to how we use them isn't even a bigger phenomenon. As someone who spends more hours in front of the computer than I care to admit, I can't imagine tweaking it to work the way I want. And believe me, my desktops get pretty crazy depending on what I"m doing that week.
36% of users being new. Now that's the best thing I've heard in awhile.
Anyone care to venture a prediction on whether skinning (extreme computer personalization) will become so common and mainstream that people will take it for granted?
Well, gotta go, something's burning in the toaster!
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Peff
Reply #42 Wednesday, May 1, 2002 8:08 PM
Reply #42 Wednesday, May 1, 2002 8:08 PM
Only problem with Dylan was that he couldn't sing...sounds like Barney Fife on qualudes...but a genius, none the less...
adni18
Reply #43 Wednesday, May 1, 2002 8:55 PM
Reply #43 Wednesday, May 1, 2002 8:55 PM
paxx,
"....fabulous. I love it. Great work, thank you!"
When is the last time you got one of these?"
I am getting everyday more than 20 e-mails like these and I appreciate it. The tough part is to answer to all those e-mails.
"And the comments that are left on the skins sites usually come from other fellow skinners and never from the casual downloader anymore."
I must say that the contrary it is happening to me! The most of the comments I get are coming from casual users and rarely from other fellow skinners.
So, you see? There are many points of view for every subject; and our subject now is skinning, so here are my two cents about it.
The future of skinning is depending from the technical and ethical support that the Old Guard gives to the New Blood! It is a pity, but I don't see neither of those supports, as it is supposed to be, I never get any.
I have to mention that I have seen the contrary more often and I feel sorry about it.
"....fabulous. I love it. Great work, thank you!"
When is the last time you got one of these?"
I am getting everyday more than 20 e-mails like these and I appreciate it. The tough part is to answer to all those e-mails.
"And the comments that are left on the skins sites usually come from other fellow skinners and never from the casual downloader anymore."
I must say that the contrary it is happening to me! The most of the comments I get are coming from casual users and rarely from other fellow skinners.
So, you see? There are many points of view for every subject; and our subject now is skinning, so here are my two cents about it.
The future of skinning is depending from the technical and ethical support that the Old Guard gives to the New Blood! It is a pity, but I don't see neither of those supports, as it is supposed to be, I never get any.
I have to mention that I have seen the contrary more often and I feel sorry about it.
DavidK
Reply #44 Wednesday, May 1, 2002 8:57 PM
Reply #44 Wednesday, May 1, 2002 8:57 PM
why do people always say that? I thought Dylan's voice was incredible, with more range and character than any other singer at that time (except maybe Fred Neil). 
Griffinme
Reply #46 Wednesday, May 1, 2002 10:10 PM
Reply #46 Wednesday, May 1, 2002 10:10 PM
"At that time there was a lot of genius around in music and art, but there were also plenty of other 'new' 'young' stars around then that were completely insipid."
Like... Vanilla Fudge
Just thinking of their songs gives me the willies.
Like... Vanilla Fudge
Just thinking of their songs gives me the willies.
DavidK
Reply #47 Wednesday, May 1, 2002 10:34 PM
Reply #47 Wednesday, May 1, 2002 10:34 PM
heh - Vanilla Fudge... I actually liked their version of "You keep me hangin on" all stretched out and slow. Never heard anything else by them but I did hear them play live once. They were really good musicians. I heard their producer took over the band and told them what they would play, how to dress, how to arrange everything. Forced the whole pop thing on them, which is why they broke up. Maybe that's the key... if its phony, doesn't come from your heart, it won't go very far before it just falls apart. Like how a vampire melts in the light of the daytime.
davad70
Reply #48 Wednesday, May 1, 2002 10:49 PM
Reply #48 Wednesday, May 1, 2002 10:49 PM
"The future of skinning is depending from the technical and ethical support that the Old Guard gives to the New Blood! It is a pity, but I don't see neither of those supports, as it is supposed to be, I never get any." by adni18 - 5/1/2002 8:55:04 PM
The suppport and help is there adni, you just have to look in the right places.
I thought this to be the case when I first started making skins, but eventually I learned where to go to get the help and support I needed. I think my abilities have grown by leaps and bounds thanks to the help of many of the "elders" (virophile, greenreaper, pjpowell, crumbut, madice) of our community. Mind you, most of them are not elders in the traditional sense of the word, but have been involved in skinning for a long time.
IRC has been a greater help to me than any graphics technique or application. I've also noted before that the feedback that you get varies depending on the site that you're talking about. Personally I've found that I get much more feedback, especially from skinners/artists at LOS.
I'm not sure how comfortable you are with english, but if you are I'd definitely recommend hanging out on IRC.
The suppport and help is there adni, you just have to look in the right places.
I thought this to be the case when I first started making skins, but eventually I learned where to go to get the help and support I needed. I think my abilities have grown by leaps and bounds thanks to the help of many of the "elders" (virophile, greenreaper, pjpowell, crumbut, madice) of our community. Mind you, most of them are not elders in the traditional sense of the word, but have been involved in skinning for a long time.
IRC has been a greater help to me than any graphics technique or application. I've also noted before that the feedback that you get varies depending on the site that you're talking about. Personally I've found that I get much more feedback, especially from skinners/artists at LOS.
I'm not sure how comfortable you are with english, but if you are I'd definitely recommend hanging out on IRC.
Jafo
Reply #49 Wednesday, May 1, 2002 11:28 PM
Reply #49 Wednesday, May 1, 2002 11:28 PM
One of the great things about skinning as a medium is that it is so new...so young...that everyone currently here 'doing it' is essentially at its dawning..at its beginning, and can watch it grow, and perhaps grow with it...even nurture its direction.
Try that with other media...Photography...you'd have to be over 100 years old....cave painting....slightly older...
You could even say that we, all of us, who are here [in skinning, not 'here' at Wincusto] have the power and responsibility to forge skinning's future.
Maybe this is why I for one, have taken up the task of 'educating' miscreants in the rights of the Artist and tried to protect their copyrights.
When this becomes clear second-nature throughout the entire scene....when even newbies and new sites are instantly conscious of their responsibilities relating to 'ripping and not ripping', then the whole 'community' of sites and their members will be better off, and can enjoy themselves...
Try that with other media...Photography...you'd have to be over 100 years old....cave painting....slightly older...
You could even say that we, all of us, who are here [in skinning, not 'here' at Wincusto] have the power and responsibility to forge skinning's future.
Maybe this is why I for one, have taken up the task of 'educating' miscreants in the rights of the Artist and tried to protect their copyrights.
When this becomes clear second-nature throughout the entire scene....when even newbies and new sites are instantly conscious of their responsibilities relating to 'ripping and not ripping', then the whole 'community' of sites and their members will be better off, and can enjoy themselves...
Koasati
Reply #50 Wednesday, May 1, 2002 11:36 PM
Reply #50 Wednesday, May 1, 2002 11:36 PM
o...k..........read all that, and now I'm tired.
There have been a few times when someone new to skinning emailed me, and ask for help. It's truly discouraging to never hear from them again...........never any acknoledgement that the info helped or didn't...........
There have been a few times when someone new to skinning emailed me, and ask for help. It's truly discouraging to never hear from them again...........never any acknoledgement that the info helped or didn't...........
jcg
Reply #51 Thursday, May 2, 2002 1:57 AM
Reply #51 Thursday, May 2, 2002 1:57 AM
Koasati - I find for the most part, the opposite is true. Even if in the end I can not help a person they are usually grateful for the help.
adni18
Reply #52 Thursday, May 2, 2002 3:45 AM
Reply #52 Thursday, May 2, 2002 3:45 AM
Thank you for your info davad70, but I wasn't mean this kind of help aka tutorials, I know that exists and some people here have done a wonderful job writing them.
What about the ethical support that the new artists need?
Rates 1 without any explanation or e-mails without answers? Is this a kind of support?
Thanks God, there are some wonderful persons among us!
Jafo believes that:
"all of us, who are here [in skinning, not 'here' at Wincusto] have the power and responsibility to forge skinning's future."
and this is exactly the meaning of my thread above.
What about the ethical support that the new artists need?
Rates 1 without any explanation or e-mails without answers? Is this a kind of support?
Thanks God, there are some wonderful persons among us!
Jafo believes that:
"all of us, who are here [in skinning, not 'here' at Wincusto] have the power and responsibility to forge skinning's future."
and this is exactly the meaning of my thread above.
paxx
Reply #53 Thursday, May 2, 2002 8:28 AM
Reply #53 Thursday, May 2, 2002 8:28 AM
adni, most of us are always haapy to help the intelligent and serious people but are tired of trying to help the people who won't even be bothered to read the available tutorials and help files available in the first place.
Ever since the first days of skinning, it's always been the skinners moto: look it up by yourself first and if you still need help, it will be our pleasure to give you all the help you need.
For example, a question such as: How do you make Windowblinds skins? may be left unansered or even get flamed, compared to a question such as "I have been trying to make an animation in my titlebar, but whatever I do my title still dosn't animate. Could somebody give me a few tips I should know about this, please?", that will most likely have somebody happy to give you the help you need.
My point previously was that more and people it seems, people won't even be bothered to do the first steps themselves first.
Concerning the feedback you receive, well considering the number of downloads you get, it's understandable. When you get 8,000 downloads a day, receiving 20 emails is not very much. I am pretty sure that if you would have been around with that many downloads two years ago, you'd probably have reveived 200-300 emails a day.
Ever since the first days of skinning, it's always been the skinners moto: look it up by yourself first and if you still need help, it will be our pleasure to give you all the help you need.
For example, a question such as: How do you make Windowblinds skins? may be left unansered or even get flamed, compared to a question such as "I have been trying to make an animation in my titlebar, but whatever I do my title still dosn't animate. Could somebody give me a few tips I should know about this, please?", that will most likely have somebody happy to give you the help you need.
My point previously was that more and people it seems, people won't even be bothered to do the first steps themselves first.
Concerning the feedback you receive, well considering the number of downloads you get, it's understandable. When you get 8,000 downloads a day, receiving 20 emails is not very much. I am pretty sure that if you would have been around with that many downloads two years ago, you'd probably have reveived 200-300 emails a day.
davad70
Reply #54 Thursday, May 2, 2002 10:28 AM
Reply #54 Thursday, May 2, 2002 10:28 AM
adni....I wasn't referring to tutorials, etc. I was talking about the moral/ethical support that you say is missing.
adni18
Reply #55 Thursday, May 2, 2002 11:04 AM
Reply #55 Thursday, May 2, 2002 11:04 AM
paxx,
I see your point about the e-mails and I think that I must agree with you
As about the other half of your thread, you are right too, but I wasn't talking about the oncoming skinners, I was talking about the existing ones.
davad70,
I am sorry if I have misunderstood your thread, but you know well what I am talking about. Don’t judge any subject only with your experience; try to see what is happening with the other people too, before your final judgment.
I see your point about the e-mails and I think that I must agree with you
As about the other half of your thread, you are right too, but I wasn't talking about the oncoming skinners, I was talking about the existing ones.
davad70,
I am sorry if I have misunderstood your thread, but you know well what I am talking about. Don’t judge any subject only with your experience; try to see what is happening with the other people too, before your final judgment.
davad70
Reply #56 Thursday, May 2, 2002 11:32 AM
Reply #56 Thursday, May 2, 2002 11:32 AM
You've truly lost me adni. I have no clue what you're talking about. What judgements are you talking about?
adni18
Reply #57 Thursday, May 2, 2002 1:24 PM
Reply #57 Thursday, May 2, 2002 1:24 PM
davad,
You’ve said:
"The support and help is there adni, you just have to look in the right places" and you follow it with "adni....I wasn't referring to tutorials, etc. I was talking about the moral/ethical support".
Find the right places for moral/ethical support?
Hehe, can you imagine someone trying to find the places where he could find moral/ethical support? If there is such a kind of people, the best solution for them is to visit a psychiatrist.
You've truly lost me davad but it's ok
You’ve said:
"The support and help is there adni, you just have to look in the right places" and you follow it with "adni....I wasn't referring to tutorials, etc. I was talking about the moral/ethical support".
Find the right places for moral/ethical support?
Hehe, can you imagine someone trying to find the places where he could find moral/ethical support? If there is such a kind of people, the best solution for them is to visit a psychiatrist.
You've truly lost me davad
but it's ok 
davad70
Reply #59 Thursday, May 2, 2002 2:25 PM
Reply #59 Thursday, May 2, 2002 2:25 PM
Last attempt adni, I'll try to break it down easier.
Develop relationships with fellow skinners/artists in order to get support on both levels (technical and support/encouragement).
You can develop those kind of relationships in the places I mentioned (IRC and sites that are mainly populated by skinners, as opposed to this site which the majority are just skin users).
Develop relationships with fellow skinners/artists in order to get support on both levels (technical and support/encouragement).
You can develop those kind of relationships in the places I mentioned (IRC and sites that are mainly populated by skinners, as opposed to this site which the majority are just skin users).
adni18
Reply #60 Thursday, May 2, 2002 3:15 PM
Reply #60 Thursday, May 2, 2002 3:15 PM
OK, David,
You make me feel like I am talking in Chinese, (or Greek if you like).
In the other hand, maybe, you think that you are talking in Chinese.
I can't find another explanation.
Take care fellow skinner
You make me feel like I am talking in Chinese, (or Greek if you like).
In the other hand, maybe, you think that you are talking in Chinese.
I can't find another explanation.
Take care fellow skinner
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Reply #41 Wednesday, May 1, 2002 8:02 PM