MAC-icon rips
Friday, January 11, 2002 by c242 | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I personally think, that 75 percent of those Mac to XP icon-conversions are done and uploaded without permission... Does anybody else feel bad about that ? I'm still waiting for a certain permission just to see that someone else takes my idea from a screenshot and uploads part of it. (Just a side-note...)
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disciple
Reply #2 Friday, January 11, 2002 12:53 PM
Reply #2 Friday, January 11, 2002 12:53 PM
not that this is really a rip (since the originals were ripped from OS X in the first place by me) but do any of you admins think that it's ok to repackage work (the converting and resizing) someone else did (without the readme i might add) and call it your own? if you look at https://www.wincustomize.com/skins.asp?library=2&SkinID=752 Mac OS Modern v2 that's been on the Top 10 Downloads for weeks you'll find that they are just the icons from aqua-soft.org that were converted and resized by me. i know i didn't create the icons myself but it did take a lot of work to convert and resize them (creating 48, 64, and 72 sized images) and Kuri Cazz gives no mention of aqua-soft, apple, disciple, or anyone and hasn't included the readme in the original files. he (she) has simply repacked the icons from aqua-soft (originally from apple) and uploaded them here. what's with that? i've posted several comments on his download page and got no answer/reply.
c242
Reply #3 Friday, January 11, 2002 12:55 PM
Reply #3 Friday, January 11, 2002 12:55 PM
If Your idea really was not inspired by my screenshot I apologize for that. But : The conversion to png is a matter of permission to me, too.
My main point was not this special case but another one... (see subject).
If You take a look look at devart's winicon-section You perhaps will understand my rant.
My main point was not this special case but another one... (see subject).
If You take a look look at devart's winicon-section You perhaps will understand my rant.
Frogboy
Reply #4 Friday, January 11, 2002 1:07 PM
Reply #4 Friday, January 11, 2002 1:07 PM
Disciple, that is definitely problematic.
I'm not sure what the course should be.
One the one hand, they're Apple's icon designs but you put work into them as well.
We're open to suggestions.
I'm not sure what the course should be.
One the one hand, they're Apple's icon designs but you put work into them as well.
We're open to suggestions.
Firestorm
Reply #5 Friday, January 11, 2002 1:40 PM
Reply #5 Friday, January 11, 2002 1:40 PM
I'd say have Kuri apologize to disciple and formally request permission to use his adapted icons. If disciple agrees, the package stays. If not, it does not.
Salomonic, eh?
Salomonic, eh?
disciple
Reply #6 Friday, January 11, 2002 2:05 PM
Reply #6 Friday, January 11, 2002 2:05 PM
i'm not personally too upset it just seems that no one reads the readmes and even thinks twice about repackaging someone elses work w/o permission and uploading it as their own. as i said, it's not exactly a rip since they were originally ripped from OS X in the first place (therefore no artistry or creativity was invested by me) but it at least seems polite to ask first and include some credit to aqua-soft.org so at least people know from where they originated into the windows world. what do you all think?
jtfolden
Reply #7 Friday, January 11, 2002 3:50 PM
Reply #7 Friday, January 11, 2002 3:50 PM
I've recently run into the same type of situation, disciple, and I agree... Someone ripped a large portion of the graphics from my H2O Pro theme for WB and used them without permission. Hell, they even used my UIS file that plainly and politely asked for credit right at the very top of the file and they left that text in there while totally ignoring it. I called them on it, they refused to work anything out - until after I had the skin removed from several sites. Now the kid posts sarcastic comments on themes I upload.
While it may be true that neither of us are the designers of the artwork on the original platform, and I never hide where the inspiration comes from, we are the ones that undertook the idea and hard work of recreating it as something useful to Windows users.
So, it seems to me that as long as skin sites allow uploads of OS related themes then these same themes should also be protected from rippers, if for nothing else than the time and hard work factor. Rather than stealing from another theme, they should ask for permission / give credit when they use them OR simply go and recreate the artwork themselves. Just my opinion.
While it may be true that neither of us are the designers of the artwork on the original platform, and I never hide where the inspiration comes from, we are the ones that undertook the idea and hard work of recreating it as something useful to Windows users.
So, it seems to me that as long as skin sites allow uploads of OS related themes then these same themes should also be protected from rippers, if for nothing else than the time and hard work factor. Rather than stealing from another theme, they should ask for permission / give credit when they use them OR simply go and recreate the artwork themselves. Just my opinion.
Hell Dragon
Reply #8 Friday, January 11, 2002 4:17 PM
Reply #8 Friday, January 11, 2002 4:17 PM
Yepp... I've noticed the same problem over at DA. (as you know c242)
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation.php?id=139656
Basically the guy there just did a mass conversion of Icon Factory's latest OS-X icons 'World of Aqua 3'.
Now, I know for a fact that IconFactory _hate_ this sort of thing with a passion, since they like to control where they icons are downloaded, and even have their own site http://www.dotico.com for their conversions.
They guy over at DA is being a real asshole about it, and somehow thinks he has a 'right' to upload them since he put the work into converting them.
He's even resorted to giving me revenge reviews on my deviations since I gave him hassle. Quite Sad.
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation.php?id=139656
Basically the guy there just did a mass conversion of Icon Factory's latest OS-X icons 'World of Aqua 3'.
Now, I know for a fact that IconFactory _hate_ this sort of thing with a passion, since they like to control where they icons are downloaded, and even have their own site http://www.dotico.com for their conversions.
They guy over at DA is being a real asshole about it, and somehow thinks he has a 'right' to upload them since he put the work into converting them.
He's even resorted to giving me revenge reviews on my deviations since I gave him hassle. Quite Sad.
c242
Reply #9 Friday, January 11, 2002 4:37 PM
Reply #9 Friday, January 11, 2002 4:37 PM
Hmmm, this becomes a general discussion about ripping. Again, that was not my point. OS-ports are one aspect, but I spoke of original artwork by mac-artists that is converted without any permission. Although some ports are really good and enhanced with more sizes (and much work) others are simple iconshop-converts quickly thrown into a zip-file. I have received many requests to give away the converted MM-Icons via e-mail, but I will not do that as long as Mikkel Madsen (the original author) doesn't give his permission.
About the struggle at deviantart : The guy even accused me of ripping (revenge, revenge) in a comment for my screenshot...
About the struggle at deviantart : The guy even accused me of ripping (revenge, revenge) in a comment for my screenshot...
disciple
Reply #10 Friday, January 11, 2002 4:52 PM
Reply #10 Friday, January 11, 2002 4:52 PM
yeah, sorry to make this post go in a direction you did not mean c242. it just reminded me of a situation i'd seen personally.
as far as original artwork from a mac, i'd asked someone who uploaded icons to xicons.com (his site was at http://istudio.appleonlooker.com/ and is now gone) if he minded if i converted his icons to windows xp and provided them for windows users (giving him the credit, etc. of course in the readme and pointing people to his site). he replied saying that he had "issues" with that and would rather me not but thanked me for asking. when further pressed on what "issues" he had he said to be honest that he hated (i think "was repulsed by windows" was the words he used) windows and would never want to see his work on a wretched windows machine and that was why he didn't want me to do that. so even though i thought his reasons were ridiculous i honored his request as the original author of the icons and have not offered them for download. i converted them and used them for myself but will not offer them for others to download.
i think that is the issue. if you ask and they say it's ok (which most often it is) then post for download...everything's fine. if you ask and they say no then don't. but the point is, ask...
as far as original artwork from a mac, i'd asked someone who uploaded icons to xicons.com (his site was at http://istudio.appleonlooker.com/ and is now gone) if he minded if i converted his icons to windows xp and provided them for windows users (giving him the credit, etc. of course in the readme and pointing people to his site). he replied saying that he had "issues" with that and would rather me not but thanked me for asking. when further pressed on what "issues" he had he said to be honest that he hated (i think "was repulsed by windows" was the words he used) windows and would never want to see his work on a wretched windows machine and that was why he didn't want me to do that. so even though i thought his reasons were ridiculous i honored his request as the original author of the icons and have not offered them for download. i converted them and used them for myself but will not offer them for others to download.
i think that is the issue. if you ask and they say it's ok (which most often it is) then post for download...everything's fine. if you ask and they say no then don't. but the point is, ask...
c242
Reply #11 Friday, January 11, 2002 5:17 PM
Reply #11 Friday, January 11, 2002 5:17 PM
And that is a big point, I think. I don't mind for the mac-pc war at all, as I don't mind who is driving what car or whatever...
adni18
Reply #12 Friday, January 11, 2002 7:03 PM
Reply #12 Friday, January 11, 2002 7:03 PM
The icons in the "Mac OS Modern v2" package, are not all MacOs X icons maded by Apple, the most of them are maded by other Mac-Users authors. Therefore, are rips!
Hell Dragon
Reply #13 Friday, January 11, 2002 7:30 PM
Reply #13 Friday, January 11, 2002 7:30 PM
Okay, the Problem at DA (with the IconFactory conversions) is sorted, and since the user was being so stubborn about it, he got what was coming to him.
Fair enough.
But c242 does have a very good point; most of the new XP icons coming out at the moment are nothing but MacOS-X conversions and rips. It's a sad fact but true, most people would rather just convert old work then actually get down and create something original and fresh.
There's no way I have the time to check every possible site... I just surf for icons occasionally - and I know most of the Mac Iconists definitely don't check Windows sites for their work.
Ahh well...
Fair enough.
But c242 does have a very good point; most of the new XP icons coming out at the moment are nothing but MacOS-X conversions and rips. It's a sad fact but true, most people would rather just convert old work then actually get down and create something original and fresh.
There's no way I have the time to check every possible site... I just surf for icons occasionally - and I know most of the Mac Iconists definitely don't check Windows sites for their work.
Ahh well...
Koasati
Reply #14 Saturday, January 12, 2002 9:16 AM
Reply #14 Saturday, January 12, 2002 9:16 AM
The icons in the "Mac OS Modern v2" package, are not all MacOs X icons maded by Apple, the most of them are maded by other Mac-Users authors. Therefore, are rips!
by Master adni18 - 1/11/2002 7:03:39 PM
Are you suggesting that if they were all made by Apple, then posting them without permission is not a rip?
by Master adni18 - 1/11/2002 7:03:39 PM
Are you suggesting that if they were all made by Apple, then posting them without permission is not a rip?
adni18
Reply #15 Saturday, January 12, 2002 4:10 PM
Reply #15 Saturday, January 12, 2002 4:10 PM
Yes, Koasati, from Apple or Microsoft or Next or other OS, otherwise we have a lot of rips around, don't you think?
Firestorm
Reply #16 Saturday, January 12, 2002 5:12 PM
Reply #16 Saturday, January 12, 2002 5:12 PM
Koasati, while using the icons that came with an OS is technically a rip, Apple suffers nothing by our usage of them: No loss of money, or business, or prestige. An inidivdual who has his work ripped suffers from at least one of the above, and in the case of pro teams like Pixtudio, ALL of the above.
JayG
Reply #17 Saturday, January 12, 2002 6:03 PM
Reply #17 Saturday, January 12, 2002 6:03 PM
apple might argue that it dilutes the value of their work and causes peopple not to buy macs.
Koasati
Reply #19 Saturday, January 12, 2002 7:26 PM
Reply #19 Saturday, January 12, 2002 7:26 PM
a rip is a rip is a rip...........
It doesn't matter if anyone is 'hurt', it's just WRONG! If someone rips my work, I'm not hurt, (no danger of that happening, I suppose) but I am pissed.
Adni, yes, we have a lot of rips around! I'll never understand why it's OK to port an OS without permission. This double standard bothers me very much........
I know I'm in the minority here, but that's how I see it......
It doesn't matter if anyone is 'hurt', it's just WRONG! If someone rips my work, I'm not hurt, (no danger of that happening, I suppose) but I am pissed.
Adni, yes, we have a lot of rips around! I'll never understand why it's OK to port an OS without permission. This double standard bothers me very much........
I know I'm in the minority here, but that's how I see it......
Jafo
Reply #20 Sunday, January 13, 2002 8:13 PM
Reply #20 Sunday, January 13, 2002 8:13 PM
Koasati...regarding the apparent 'double-standard'....the skinning community sites have a responsibility to respect and protect other skin authors in the community by rejecting rips of their work.
When it comes to artwork derived from OS's, whether Apple or XP, it is the direct responsibility of the Product owners to police. If Apple were to contact skinning sites and demand that ALL OSX-derived works and imagery were removed we would have to comply. When it comes to Microsoft, I really believe that they have seen that it's in their best interest to nurture this use of their product in this way as it only promotes greater interest and therefore profit to themselves.
If person ONE grabs an OS icon and modifies it in some way...and the OS maker does not take issue, then all is well.
If person TWO does the same...well and good.
If however, person TWO takes the work of person ONE and modifies THAT and uploads it..then we have a 'rip' problem, even though both works are essentially the same OS origin.
The problem is that now we have someone within our sphere of control/management that we can protect and oversee...
When it comes to artwork derived from OS's, whether Apple or XP, it is the direct responsibility of the Product owners to police. If Apple were to contact skinning sites and demand that ALL OSX-derived works and imagery were removed we would have to comply. When it comes to Microsoft, I really believe that they have seen that it's in their best interest to nurture this use of their product in this way as it only promotes greater interest and therefore profit to themselves.
If person ONE grabs an OS icon and modifies it in some way...and the OS maker does not take issue, then all is well.
If person TWO does the same...well and good.
If however, person TWO takes the work of person ONE and modifies THAT and uploads it..then we have a 'rip' problem, even though both works are essentially the same OS origin.
The problem is that now we have someone within our sphere of control/management that we can protect and oversee...
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Reply #1 Friday, January 11, 2002 10:35 AM