My rant -Is there REALLY a skin "community"?
Thursday, December 6, 2001 by Draginol | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
When the Internet came, I considered myself part of a larger community, the OS/2 community.
A community isn't necessarily homogenous but what makes something a "community" is the sense that it exceeds a certain threshold of closeness and that the majority of the participants have the same basic concept of what that community is.
But is there a "Skinning" community? I think not. Rather, there are several smaller communities with very distinct concepts of what that community is. I think there is a skeletal structure for a general skinning community but really, the communities are largely tied to the sites.
I think there is a Stardock community. And I think there is a WinCustomize community. I also think there is a DeviantART community as well as communities for each site. And I think there is some overlap.
But the overlap between these communities is often little to non existent in my opinion.
There is constant bickering over what actually IS the community. And I think a lot of that comes from such a diverse set of demographics. Look at the demograhpics of this site compared to say Customize.org. The average active participant here can legally drink alcohol in all states in the US and they have full time jobs.
When Skinz.org was at its height, I think there was an overall community, albeit a small one.
But I've become increasing frustrated, well let me be blunt, disgusted with certain parallel universe versions of the skin community. You have the anti-capitalists (I.e. "I haven't personally spent any real time contributing for the past year but I want to say that everything should be free! Rock on!"). You have the group that contributes some but does so out of ego-gratification (I.e. "I've done some modest work over the year and want to let you know that I"m king of the community and I will crush all those who oppose me! Worship me!"). I don't know which contigency is worse.
The former is definitely in full loudness this week in that Customize.org discussion on whether skin suites should be free or not.
And it really highlights this post's point - there is no single skin community. There are many competing visions. If I wrote a post "What do you think of people charging for skin suites" I think it's safe to say that the response would be overwhelmingly "Good for them!" here. But elsewhere you get the folks who think that it's okay for skin SITES to make money off of the work of skin authors but that skin authors should work for free. Skin authors are apparently to be slaves in this vision, slaves to skin sites who profit from their efforts.
I have gotten a real kick out of the "free beer" folks who have criticized WinCustomize because it's a "corporate site" (even though the most of the other sites are, just that in this case, our parent company is a software developer) yet this site has no banner ads, no pop ups, etc. I think it's GOOD for skin sites to make money. I think it's GOOD for them to have banner ads and whatever else they need to generate income. The difference though is that people, whoever they are, shouldn't delude themselves into thinking that selling a good or service is bad yet banner ads and pop up ads are okay. In all cases, the entity in question is trying to generate revenue to pay for those expenses.
My friend Jark took grief because he has set up a subscription service. Unbelievable. Grief from people who have contributed zilch. My friends Treetog/Alexandrie/Nuvem are taking grief because they want to charge a measely $10 in exchange for around TWENTY skins. My lunch cost more than $10 today. And of course, we're always taking grief from those who argue our software is free or that our software is doomed to be passed up by free alternatives (note to them: WB's kicking ass, people who can afford WB are choosing it over free alternatives).
Which brings me back to the beginning, there is no such thing as a single skin community. There are merely a confederation of communities, each thinking that they have the vision of what the skin community is.
I for one am thankful every day that this site, our news groups (check out news://news.stardock.com) have such wonderful cool people. I am thankful that many of the leaders of the other skin sites are so cool (I talk to Jark regularly, Scarebear is a great guy, and Chaz and I chat on IRC regularly and is a great guy too). But the events of the past few months have led me to basically stop caring what the other bitter nasty contigents think. At least in the sense of letting it dictate our actions.
Let the "free beer" folks complain and yell. Those who actually contribute are the ones whose opinions matter to me.
When we first started this site we took a lot of grief from the "free beer" folks and they eventually migrated elsewhere. I'm glad. I'm not interested in them. I don't consider them part of the community we all, together, have helped create. What we call that community doesn't matter. But it's our community. Created with care, kindness, and hard work. With people who respect each other and each other's efforts and are generous in heart. Ethically strong yet not overly judgemental of others. You guys are the type of people I want to be around. To be associated with.
Anyway, that's my rant for the day. Feel free to add yours.
Reply #42 Saturday, December 8, 2001 1:52 PM
Reply #43 Saturday, December 8, 2001 1:53 PM
So, anyone here pay for DesktopX? Did you know that it used to be a freeware app, until $tardock embraced & extended it? It was called Verona Desktop Enhancer - just try to find it, it's long gone. All traces wiped clean. Kinda like laying out the tarp before an execution, I guess.
Reply #44 Saturday, December 8, 2001 1:57 PM
The $tardock umbilical -can- be cut; if it couldn't, there wouldn't be efx downloads still happening (they exist!) (Uhm, for those of you stuck in $tardock land, efx is a freeware window skinner - does what windowblinds does, albeit with fewer effects etc. WB is a fine app, and the added value, I think, does add up to the price of the app. Generally using efx instead of WB is more a statement of prinicple than a judgement of quality)
Reply #45 Saturday, December 8, 2001 1:59 PM
after the obnoxious admin says he's 'deleting treetog's ass' you created a brand new post saying how proud you are of that guy. you're a real gem shoggot. apparently that site was once a leading site? what the hell happened to it?
Reply #46 Saturday, December 8, 2001 2:00 PM
See him in his glory. Come back when sufficiently disgusted.
Reply #47 Saturday, December 8, 2001 2:01 PM
Reply #48 Saturday, December 8, 2001 2:03 PM
! Shoggot do you know how clueless you sound when you try to compare DesktopX to VDE? I used to use VDE. You apparently have never used DesktopX. It's like saying that Adobe Photoshop is free in the form of MSPaint.Then you compare eFX to WindowBlinds? I used eFX before WindowBlinds and it's the same thing. You are really torpedoing your arguments Shoggot. Seriously you sound crazy.
Reply #49 Saturday, December 8, 2001 2:06 PM

I guess I'm just a slave too then. Your assanine behavior, Mr. Shoggot is disgusting and childish.
Reply #50 Saturday, December 8, 2001 2:07 PM
"Uhm, for those of you stuck in $tardock land, efx is a freeware window skinner - does what windowblinds does, albeit with fewer effects etc. WB is a fine app, and the added value, I think, does add up to the price of the app. Generally using efx instead of WB is more a statement of prinicple than a judgement of quality) "
learn to -read-. I said WB was better. I said the reasons to use efx are -not- to be using a higher quality app.
and dude - VDE -became- desktopX. PS didn't come from mspaint; dx did come from vde.
also, I can still get mspaint, if i don't want PS (and god knows I don't. adobe's as bad as stardock). I can't get VDE anymore.
Reply #51 Saturday, December 8, 2001 2:08 PM
Reply #53 Saturday, December 8, 2001 2:12 PM
Shoggot, what you say about DesktopX is very insulting. Alberto, developer of VDE and the lead developer of DesktopX has publicly stated many times that DesktopX is not based on VDE. DesktopX was started from scratch and he used knowledge he accumulated during its development on DesktopX. Being one of the people at Stardock who has spent the past 2 years of my life working on DesktopX with Furan, Brad, Kris, Alex and others, you demonstrate just how little you know about Stardock or its software.
It is you that is trying to rewrite history. VDE is still out there. You can download it and compare the two for yourself. There is very little in common. Several people like me have spent 8 hours a day, 5 days a week for the last 2 years on it and it's sold for only $20. Your words and insulting and you should apologize.
Reply #54 Saturday, December 8, 2001 2:15 PM
I have concluded that you are so blindly self righteous that you are incapable of seeing how offensive and arrogant your writings come across.
Reply #55 Saturday, December 8, 2001 2:18 PM
Reply #56 Saturday, December 8, 2001 2:30 PM
I think i've seen it all now - take a look around at yourselves. Just because we don't agree with your ideals, doesn't make us knuckle-dragging neanderthals. Im outta here now, I probably should'nt have ventured back anyhow, i should have learnt my lesson the first time. I'll leave you wholesome people in your sterile bubble of purity and goodness, and scuttle back to the seedy underbelly of the web with my misplaced, unorthodox ideals - and i'll try not to soil your holy ground again.....
Reply #57 Saturday, December 8, 2001 2:47 PM
Some have really shown their true colors, and the only real points they score are ones that degrade their value in terms of how the majority of the general community views them.
Try not to let obvious anti-bias's impair your abilty to intelligently reason through a discussion.
Reply #58 Saturday, December 8, 2001 2:58 PM
Reply #59 Saturday, December 8, 2001 3:03 PM
craeonics explains to the newbies
Verona Desktop Enhancer, for those that don't know, was a predecessor of DesktopX. It was shareware, not freeware and the guy who did it later joined Stardock where he worked (and works probably) on DesktopX. While it's homepage may be dead, you can still find it floating around the Net.
Reply #60 Saturday, December 8, 2001 3:05 PM
hehe
carry on...
Please login to comment and/or vote for this skin.
Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
- Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums and downloading skins.
- Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
- Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
- It's simple, and FREE!







Reply #41 Saturday, December 8, 2001 1:51 PM
::frogboy says that the 'free beer' people, whatever the hell that means, believe that the 'community' is a tiny group determined by a set of elites.#::
ya with me shoggot? not confused yet?
then you say
::
There is a real community. It's #skinnerz, like jesh said. It's also the mix of sites devoted to skinning. Yes, they disagree on various points. Find me a homogenous community, and I'll show you a still photo from "The Village of the Damned".
There's also a company portal site which claims to be part of this collection - or rather, they claim to -be- the collection now.
::
you, a self appointed elite, say who is and isn't in the community. you then 'twist' fb's words into saying that he's trying to say wincustomize is 'the community' which he never said. he said that that was what you said on that other site. i don't know because i have better things to do than waste my time going through that crap.
you are an elitist shoggot. i don't remember voting you emperor.