My rant -Is there REALLY a skin "community"?
Thursday, December 6, 2001 by Draginol | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I have been part of virtual communities for the past 15 years. I know what they are. I started out in the BBS world and we had a local area virtual community. It didn't have a name but we were all literally tied together by what was in the local phone exchange.
When the Internet came, I considered myself part of a larger community, the OS/2 community.
A community isn't necessarily homogenous but what makes something a "community" is the sense that it exceeds a certain threshold of closeness and that the majority of the participants have the same basic concept of what that community is.
But is there a "Skinning" community? I think not. Rather, there are several smaller communities with very distinct concepts of what that community is. I think there is a skeletal structure for a general skinning community but really, the communities are largely tied to the sites.
I think there is a Stardock community. And I think there is a WinCustomize community. I also think there is a DeviantART community as well as communities for each site. And I think there is some overlap.
But the overlap between these communities is often little to non existent in my opinion.
There is constant bickering over what actually IS the community. And I think a lot of that comes from such a diverse set of demographics. Look at the demograhpics of this site compared to say Customize.org. The average active participant here can legally drink alcohol in all states in the US and they have full time jobs.
When Skinz.org was at its height, I think there was an overall community, albeit a small one.
But I've become increasing frustrated, well let me be blunt, disgusted with certain parallel universe versions of the skin community. You have the anti-capitalists (I.e. "I haven't personally spent any real time contributing for the past year but I want to say that everything should be free! Rock on!"). You have the group that contributes some but does so out of ego-gratification (I.e. "I've done some modest work over the year and want to let you know that I"m king of the community and I will crush all those who oppose me! Worship me!"). I don't know which contigency is worse.
The former is definitely in full loudness this week in that Customize.org discussion on whether skin suites should be free or not.
And it really highlights this post's point - there is no single skin community. There are many competing visions. If I wrote a post "What do you think of people charging for skin suites" I think it's safe to say that the response would be overwhelmingly "Good for them!" here. But elsewhere you get the folks who think that it's okay for skin SITES to make money off of the work of skin authors but that skin authors should work for free. Skin authors are apparently to be slaves in this vision, slaves to skin sites who profit from their efforts.
I have gotten a real kick out of the "free beer" folks who have criticized WinCustomize because it's a "corporate site" (even though the most of the other sites are, just that in this case, our parent company is a software developer) yet this site has no banner ads, no pop ups, etc. I think it's GOOD for skin sites to make money. I think it's GOOD for them to have banner ads and whatever else they need to generate income. The difference though is that people, whoever they are, shouldn't delude themselves into thinking that selling a good or service is bad yet banner ads and pop up ads are okay. In all cases, the entity in question is trying to generate revenue to pay for those expenses.
My friend Jark took grief because he has set up a subscription service. Unbelievable. Grief from people who have contributed zilch. My friends Treetog/Alexandrie/Nuvem are taking grief because they want to charge a measely $10 in exchange for around TWENTY skins. My lunch cost more than $10 today. And of course, we're always taking grief from those who argue our software is free or that our software is doomed to be passed up by free alternatives (note to them: WB's kicking ass, people who can afford WB are choosing it over free alternatives).
Which brings me back to the beginning, there is no such thing as a single skin community. There are merely a confederation of communities, each thinking that they have the vision of what the skin community is.
I for one am thankful every day that this site, our news groups (check out news://news.stardock.com) have such wonderful cool people. I am thankful that many of the leaders of the other skin sites are so cool (I talk to Jark regularly, Scarebear is a great guy, and Chaz and I chat on IRC regularly and is a great guy too). But the events of the past few months have led me to basically stop caring what the other bitter nasty contigents think. At least in the sense of letting it dictate our actions.
Let the "free beer" folks complain and yell. Those who actually contribute are the ones whose opinions matter to me.
When we first started this site we took a lot of grief from the "free beer" folks and they eventually migrated elsewhere. I'm glad. I'm not interested in them. I don't consider them part of the community we all, together, have helped create. What we call that community doesn't matter. But it's our community. Created with care, kindness, and hard work. With people who respect each other and each other's efforts and are generous in heart. Ethically strong yet not overly judgemental of others. You guys are the type of people I want to be around. To be associated with.
Anyway, that's my rant for the day. Feel free to add yours.
When the Internet came, I considered myself part of a larger community, the OS/2 community.
A community isn't necessarily homogenous but what makes something a "community" is the sense that it exceeds a certain threshold of closeness and that the majority of the participants have the same basic concept of what that community is.
But is there a "Skinning" community? I think not. Rather, there are several smaller communities with very distinct concepts of what that community is. I think there is a skeletal structure for a general skinning community but really, the communities are largely tied to the sites.
I think there is a Stardock community. And I think there is a WinCustomize community. I also think there is a DeviantART community as well as communities for each site. And I think there is some overlap.
But the overlap between these communities is often little to non existent in my opinion.
There is constant bickering over what actually IS the community. And I think a lot of that comes from such a diverse set of demographics. Look at the demograhpics of this site compared to say Customize.org. The average active participant here can legally drink alcohol in all states in the US and they have full time jobs.
When Skinz.org was at its height, I think there was an overall community, albeit a small one.
But I've become increasing frustrated, well let me be blunt, disgusted with certain parallel universe versions of the skin community. You have the anti-capitalists (I.e. "I haven't personally spent any real time contributing for the past year but I want to say that everything should be free! Rock on!"). You have the group that contributes some but does so out of ego-gratification (I.e. "I've done some modest work over the year and want to let you know that I"m king of the community and I will crush all those who oppose me! Worship me!"). I don't know which contigency is worse.
The former is definitely in full loudness this week in that Customize.org discussion on whether skin suites should be free or not.
And it really highlights this post's point - there is no single skin community. There are many competing visions. If I wrote a post "What do you think of people charging for skin suites" I think it's safe to say that the response would be overwhelmingly "Good for them!" here. But elsewhere you get the folks who think that it's okay for skin SITES to make money off of the work of skin authors but that skin authors should work for free. Skin authors are apparently to be slaves in this vision, slaves to skin sites who profit from their efforts.
I have gotten a real kick out of the "free beer" folks who have criticized WinCustomize because it's a "corporate site" (even though the most of the other sites are, just that in this case, our parent company is a software developer) yet this site has no banner ads, no pop ups, etc. I think it's GOOD for skin sites to make money. I think it's GOOD for them to have banner ads and whatever else they need to generate income. The difference though is that people, whoever they are, shouldn't delude themselves into thinking that selling a good or service is bad yet banner ads and pop up ads are okay. In all cases, the entity in question is trying to generate revenue to pay for those expenses.
My friend Jark took grief because he has set up a subscription service. Unbelievable. Grief from people who have contributed zilch. My friends Treetog/Alexandrie/Nuvem are taking grief because they want to charge a measely $10 in exchange for around TWENTY skins. My lunch cost more than $10 today. And of course, we're always taking grief from those who argue our software is free or that our software is doomed to be passed up by free alternatives (note to them: WB's kicking ass, people who can afford WB are choosing it over free alternatives).
Which brings me back to the beginning, there is no such thing as a single skin community. There are merely a confederation of communities, each thinking that they have the vision of what the skin community is.
I for one am thankful every day that this site, our news groups (check out news://news.stardock.com) have such wonderful cool people. I am thankful that many of the leaders of the other skin sites are so cool (I talk to Jark regularly, Scarebear is a great guy, and Chaz and I chat on IRC regularly and is a great guy too). But the events of the past few months have led me to basically stop caring what the other bitter nasty contigents think. At least in the sense of letting it dictate our actions.
Let the "free beer" folks complain and yell. Those who actually contribute are the ones whose opinions matter to me.
When we first started this site we took a lot of grief from the "free beer" folks and they eventually migrated elsewhere. I'm glad. I'm not interested in them. I don't consider them part of the community we all, together, have helped create. What we call that community doesn't matter. But it's our community. Created with care, kindness, and hard work. With people who respect each other and each other's efforts and are generous in heart. Ethically strong yet not overly judgemental of others. You guys are the type of people I want to be around. To be associated with.
Anyway, that's my rant for the day. Feel free to add yours.
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JayG
Reply #22 Friday, December 7, 2001 12:44 PM
Reply #22 Friday, December 7, 2001 12:44 PM
i want the 2 hours of my morning back. i have a headache now. very amusing posts. shog you should take a philosophy class. you inadvertently proved that the only gen skin community is the 'wincustomize mob'. the guys here seem to be the only ones who hang out on multiple sites and have a cohesive vision of what skinning is all about. long live the wincustomize mob!
Frogboy
Reply #23 Friday, December 7, 2001 2:14 PM
Reply #23 Friday, December 7, 2001 2:14 PM
That's an interesting observation, Jay.
I don't know about anyone else but I came across that thread on Custo because I visit Custo daily. So Shoggot has basically argued that WinCustomize people are the ones who actually visit and participate on multiple skin sites and have similar viewpoints on the rights of skin authors and the relationship between skin authors and skin sites.
I don't know about anyone else but I came across that thread on Custo because I visit Custo daily. So Shoggot has basically argued that WinCustomize people are the ones who actually visit and participate on multiple skin sites and have similar viewpoints on the rights of skin authors and the relationship between skin authors and skin sites.
TasT
Reply #24 Friday, December 7, 2001 5:22 PM
Reply #24 Friday, December 7, 2001 5:22 PM
? Did Froggy say he was giving out free beer?
TasT feels stupid for paying for his beer all these years....
TasT feels stupid for paying for his beer all these years....
adni18
Reply #25 Friday, December 7, 2001 5:30 PM
Reply #25 Friday, December 7, 2001 5:30 PM
People with common interesting must be cooperators, but in the reality they never are. You can see that everywhere, in all human activities.
The all Humanity suffers from the symptoms of antagonism and egoism; the collaboration is always in the minimum level.
The result of this behavior is:
No strong communities, only weak ones.
The "Yes man" people are very sympathetic to the leaders, but they are always less-charismatic ones. If you have voice, then you are the enemy and not the cooperator who is trying to improve the subject of the common interesting.
Everybody are right, from their point of view, and everything that exists in this planet has many points of views, it is time to have this in mind, when we start argue with the others, it is better to learn from them than argue with them, even the most ignorant has he's point.
This is our nature, I know, but as long as we live, we are still having chances to improve our self's.
...my 2 cents
The all Humanity suffers from the symptoms of antagonism and egoism; the collaboration is always in the minimum level.
The result of this behavior is:
No strong communities, only weak ones.
The "Yes man" people are very sympathetic to the leaders, but they are always less-charismatic ones. If you have voice, then you are the enemy and not the cooperator who is trying to improve the subject of the common interesting.
Everybody are right, from their point of view, and everything that exists in this planet has many points of views, it is time to have this in mind, when we start argue with the others, it is better to learn from them than argue with them, even the most ignorant has he's point.
This is our nature, I know, but as long as we live, we are still having chances to improve our self's.
...my 2 cents
GreenReaper
Reply #26 Friday, December 7, 2001 5:30 PM
Reply #26 Friday, December 7, 2001 5:30 PM
Sorry to have to say it, but I think that the fragmentation of the skin community that once was (judging by reports - I never really experienced it) is going to continue. Moreover, I think it was inevitable.
Over the last few years, skinning has expanded from being a niche market of a few apps, most of which skinned themselves (along with a few people who were trying out an exciting new field) to being a mass of skinners, skin sites and skinned/skinning applications. As your own statistics have shown, the number of users in "the community" has skyrocketed. Somewhere along the line, it's become impossible for one site to serve all of them, because they *are* so different.
And, yes, the money involved hasn't helped - some people feel that some things should be free, and some don't. There are now enough of them to make their own community, if they want. Evidently, they do.
I don't think this is something you can stop. If you try, you'll just end up frustrated. The most you can do is be as inclusive as possible - if that's what you want to do. Even then, you have to decide - where do you draw the line? It's a hard question, and one I'm glad I don't have to decide.
Over the last few years, skinning has expanded from being a niche market of a few apps, most of which skinned themselves (along with a few people who were trying out an exciting new field) to being a mass of skinners, skin sites and skinned/skinning applications. As your own statistics have shown, the number of users in "the community" has skyrocketed. Somewhere along the line, it's become impossible for one site to serve all of them, because they *are* so different.
And, yes, the money involved hasn't helped - some people feel that some things should be free, and some don't. There are now enough of them to make their own community, if they want. Evidently, they do.
I don't think this is something you can stop. If you try, you'll just end up frustrated. The most you can do is be as inclusive as possible - if that's what you want to do. Even then, you have to decide - where do you draw the line? It's a hard question, and one I'm glad I don't have to decide.
TheSkinsFactory
Reply #27 Friday, December 7, 2001 6:35 PM
Reply #27 Friday, December 7, 2001 6:35 PM
for me the skinning community was always about #skinnerz and not so much the sites. Thats where we hung out every day, interacted, fought, laughed and lost one of our own (dethvader-RIP). The sites always seemed to be their own thing with some people bouncing to and fro looking for the next great skin for that week or two. I look at the sites more as "tribes or clans" who are part of the same species but have very different cultures and ideals.
Frogboy
Reply #28 Friday, December 7, 2001 9:34 PM
Reply #28 Friday, December 7, 2001 9:34 PM
What I like about Shoggot, is what I've always liked about Shoggot - he doesn't pull punches. He tells things how he feels they are but does so in a reasonably mature way.
And he candidly sets out the principles of why, like GreenReaper says, there really is not single "skin community" today. Instead, there are several all of which think that they have inherited the mantle of the original tightly knit community.
The "free beer" contigents points seem to be:
1) It is okay for websites to recoup their costs
2) It is not okay for software companies to recoup their costs (only "Evil" companies actually make it a business to make money writing customization software even though they were here at the beginning as well).
3) It is okay for skin authors to recoup costs but not okay to use other websites to do so (even though those websites get their visitors because of the efforts of the skin authors).
4) Deeds are irrelevant. Words are what count. Hierachies are denied but exist based on words and "attitude". A person can carry more weight because they've managed to shout down others. They will speak how they're an Admin and powerful while at the same time claim that everyone is equal and that their opponents are the ones who think they are "Better" than everyone else.
5) The community is an exclusive club in which the elites decide who is and isn't part of the community (i.e. "Everyone's equal but I decide which sites are 'community sites').
The WinCustomize "mob" / Stardock "Gang" community looks at it differently:
1) Right tool for the right job. Freeware/shareare/commercialware are irrelevant. It's what does the best and is affordable.
2) There is no distinction between creators of intellectual property - skins, software, sites. All have the right to control and expand their destinies. I.e. if it's okay to do a news item or screenshot of an application, it is okay to do a screenshot of a skin that isn't free. There is no distinction.
3)There is a symbiotic, cooperative relationship between skin sites, softwrae developers, and skin creators.
4) Deeds matter, words don't matter. Hierachies exist and are based on deeds, not "attitude". Russ's opinion or Johanne's opinion carries greater weight than someone else's in the community because of their deeds.
5) The community is huge and anyone who likes to customize their computer is part of it. But we acknowledge different levels of participation (i.e. there are roughly 40,000 specific people who visit this site at least 1 time per day, they'reall part of the community in my view but are at differnet levels of participation than say Jesh).
These stark differences doesn't make one better than the other. Just different.
And he candidly sets out the principles of why, like GreenReaper says, there really is not single "skin community" today. Instead, there are several all of which think that they have inherited the mantle of the original tightly knit community.
The "free beer" contigents points seem to be:
1) It is okay for websites to recoup their costs
2) It is not okay for software companies to recoup their costs (only "Evil" companies actually make it a business to make money writing customization software even though they were here at the beginning as well).
3) It is okay for skin authors to recoup costs but not okay to use other websites to do so (even though those websites get their visitors because of the efforts of the skin authors).
4) Deeds are irrelevant. Words are what count. Hierachies are denied but exist based on words and "attitude". A person can carry more weight because they've managed to shout down others. They will speak how they're an Admin and powerful while at the same time claim that everyone is equal and that their opponents are the ones who think they are "Better" than everyone else.
5) The community is an exclusive club in which the elites decide who is and isn't part of the community (i.e. "Everyone's equal but I decide which sites are 'community sites').
The WinCustomize "mob" / Stardock "Gang" community looks at it differently:
1) Right tool for the right job. Freeware/shareare/commercialware are irrelevant. It's what does the best and is affordable.
2) There is no distinction between creators of intellectual property - skins, software, sites. All have the right to control and expand their destinies. I.e. if it's okay to do a news item or screenshot of an application, it is okay to do a screenshot of a skin that isn't free. There is no distinction.
3)There is a symbiotic, cooperative relationship between skin sites, softwrae developers, and skin creators.
4) Deeds matter, words don't matter. Hierachies exist and are based on deeds, not "attitude". Russ's opinion or Johanne's opinion carries greater weight than someone else's in the community because of their deeds.
5) The community is huge and anyone who likes to customize their computer is part of it. But we acknowledge different levels of participation (i.e. there are roughly 40,000 specific people who visit this site at least 1 time per day, they'reall part of the community in my view but are at differnet levels of participation than say Jesh).
These stark differences doesn't make one better than the other. Just different.
Emily
Reply #29 Saturday, December 8, 2001 12:32 AM
Reply #29 Saturday, December 8, 2001 12:32 AM
Don't take this the wrong way but sometimes you guys seem to take this a little too seriously. It's like that Babylon 5 episode where there is a bloody war between two halfs of an alien race because one side has a green arm band and the other side has a different colored arm band.
Then again, I'm part of the WinCustomize 'mob' so hand me my arm band. lol.
Then again, I'm part of the WinCustomize 'mob' so hand me my arm band. lol.
Jafo
Reply #31 Saturday, December 8, 2001 1:58 AM
Reply #31 Saturday, December 8, 2001 1:58 AM
Dave...I have a 'Jafo' tattoo...stands for Opinionated , Ego-Centric, Old-Fart, Wincustomize Mobster, or 'OECOFWM'....that spells 'JAFO'....
[Don't argue....I'm the spell-checker here]...
[Don't argue....I'm the spell-checker here]...
shoggot
Reply #32 Saturday, December 8, 2001 7:20 AM
Reply #32 Saturday, December 8, 2001 7:20 AM
frog, you've misrepresented pretty much everything i've said, even twisted my words to mean "that the real community is here".. gah, i'm disgusted. Really. You couldn't come up with legitimate points, so you made 'em up.
There is a real community. It's #skinnerz, like jesh said. It's also the mix of sites devoted to skinning. Yes, they disagree on various points. Find me a homogenous community, and I'll show you a still photo from "The Village of the Damned".
There's also a company portal site which claims to be part of this collection - or rather, they claim to -be- the collection now.
Ya'll want to be the community? Fine. You're the community, nothing else exists - enjoy the vacuum.
There is a real community. It's #skinnerz, like jesh said. It's also the mix of sites devoted to skinning. Yes, they disagree on various points. Find me a homogenous community, and I'll show you a still photo from "The Village of the Damned".
There's also a company portal site which claims to be part of this collection - or rather, they claim to -be- the collection now.
Ya'll want to be the community? Fine. You're the community, nothing else exists - enjoy the vacuum.
craeonics
Reply #33 Saturday, December 8, 2001 11:10 AM
Reply #33 Saturday, December 8, 2001 11:10 AM
Black and white/us them/group -thinking is evil and sad.
craeonics is and wishes not to be part of no "community"
craeonics is and wishes not to be part of no "community"
Integer
Reply #34 Saturday, December 8, 2001 1:17 PM
Reply #34 Saturday, December 8, 2001 1:17 PM
Hrm..I find Brad's last post ironic, considering the title of the thread.
You ask if there is a skin community, then go on to state imaginary points that segregate the regular users of this site from anyone who dares to have different ideals.
If there ever was a skinning community, there sure as hell isn't now - ask yourself why, Brad.
You ask if there is a skin community, then go on to state imaginary points that segregate the regular users of this site from anyone who dares to have different ideals.
If there ever was a skinning community, there sure as hell isn't now - ask yourself why, Brad.
Emily
Reply #35 Saturday, December 8, 2001 1:22 PM
Reply #35 Saturday, December 8, 2001 1:22 PM
Mr. shoggot, I spent about half an hour reading the comments on that other site. Who the hell are you to put down the site I enjoy spending time on? Calling Stardock evil. I think Frog's concerns are too amplified but they're not far off the mark.
JayG
Reply #36 Saturday, December 8, 2001 1:31 PM
Reply #36 Saturday, December 8, 2001 1:31 PM
heh. shoggot's lack of introspection is amusing.
1st, emperor shoggot has declared that some irc channel is 'the communty'.
2nd, he says fb's twisted his words but just validated fb's point:
::quote::
'5) The community is an exclusive club in which the elites decide who is and isn't part of the community (i.e. "Everyone's equal but I decide which sites are 'community sites').'
::quote::
1st, emperor shoggot has declared that some irc channel is 'the communty'.
2nd, he says fb's twisted his words but just validated fb's point:
::quote::
'5) The community is an exclusive club in which the elites decide who is and isn't part of the community (i.e. "Everyone's equal but I decide which sites are 'community sites').'
::quote::
shoggot
Reply #37 Saturday, December 8, 2001 1:38 PM
Reply #37 Saturday, December 8, 2001 1:38 PM
cripes. look up sophisrty in the dictionary, will ya?
here's what I said: "There is a real community. It's #skinnerz, like jesh said. It's also the mix of sites devoted to skinning."
a) I was agreeing with someone - jesh made the point the the community, for him, is #skinnerz - and in many ways, it is. There's admins and users from all the major sites there, all the time.
Uh, except this one. Ya'll aren't banned or anything, so that ain't it... ah, wait, i forgot - it's not on a micro$oft certified $tardock server, maybe?
So, if brad wants to define community as attending all sites, interacting with the other sites, then yes, #skinnerz is about as close as it gets; it's not site specific, and it's been around for a few years. A lot longer than this site, btw. The fact that no wincusto users deign to communicate with us lesser-site dwellers is telling, eh?
Village of the damned indeed.
here's what I said: "There is a real community. It's #skinnerz, like jesh said. It's also the mix of sites devoted to skinning."
a) I was agreeing with someone - jesh made the point the the community, for him, is #skinnerz - and in many ways, it is. There's admins and users from all the major sites there, all the time.
Uh, except this one. Ya'll aren't banned or anything, so that ain't it... ah, wait, i forgot - it's not on a micro$oft certified $tardock server, maybe?
So, if brad wants to define community as attending all sites, interacting with the other sites, then yes, #skinnerz is about as close as it gets; it's not site specific, and it's been around for a few years. A lot longer than this site, btw. The fact that no wincusto users deign to communicate with us lesser-site dwellers is telling, eh?
Village of the damned indeed.
shoggot
Reply #38 Saturday, December 8, 2001 1:40 PM
Reply #38 Saturday, December 8, 2001 1:40 PM
uh, and in re: your "5)"... fb wasn't quoting me. you quoted frogboy quoting nobody. Damn glad I didn't do that & wind up looking like a jackass 
shoggot
Reply #39 Saturday, December 8, 2001 1:43 PM
Reply #39 Saturday, December 8, 2001 1:43 PM
Now that I think about it, that really pisses me off. And I don't know who to blame. brad never stated those were my words - so can I get mad at him for attributing those "quotes" to me? No. Can I get mad at your lack of reading skills, that you couldn't tell that they weren't quotes of actual people, but just made up garbage? Guess not, that's not your fault really.
Who was your english teacher in grade school? I guess that's where the final blame has to lie.
Who was your english teacher in grade school? I guess that's where the final blame has to lie.
John Hamp
Reply #40 Saturday, December 8, 2001 1:44 PM
Reply #40 Saturday, December 8, 2001 1:44 PM
There's nothing unique about this 'community'. What you guys need is a good old fashion real world analogy to ground yourselves in.
Ever live in a small town for a long period of time? I do. Got the crappy 26.4k connection to prove it.
Our little town is a community of people. I don't know most of them. But I attend every school board meeting. And there is always petty bickering about issues that the rank and file person in the town could care less about. Who speaks for the community? Who represents the community?
It's a waste of time to worry. It's a waste of energy. There's no trophy or badge involved.
What I think Draginol/Frogboy gets annoyed with is the self-righteousness of some people. Shoggot's posts being the poster child examples of such self-righteousness.
Ever live in a small town for a long period of time? I do. Got the crappy 26.4k connection to prove it.
Our little town is a community of people. I don't know most of them. But I attend every school board meeting. And there is always petty bickering about issues that the rank and file person in the town could care less about. Who speaks for the community? Who represents the community?
It's a waste of time to worry. It's a waste of energy. There's no trophy or badge involved.
What I think Draginol/Frogboy gets annoyed with is the self-righteousness of some people. Shoggot's posts being the poster child examples of such self-righteousness.
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Reply #21 Friday, December 7, 2001 10:58 AM
Glad I didn't post, as I'm sure I would have been labeled a "stardock kid," as well. Maybe SD should put out tshirts with the moniker
A couple thoughts, with apologies for bringing out Mr. Horse for another beating:
Their policy is their own, and they're welcome to enforce it. However, it really got on my nerves how they treated the PX crew as if they were mere opportunists. With all the man-hours treetog, Alexandrie, and nuvem have put into giving us dozens upon dozens of free skins, you'd think miriku and his cohorts would look the other way and let a small, unintrussive ad slip by. And even if they didn't, you'd think they wouldn't cuss Renato out in public. He deserves AT LEAST that much.
As for the "skinning community," going by what I've seen so far of it, I'd rather stay here in the "Stardock community," where I can be among people whose opinions I can respect, even when I disagree 100% with them. Maturity and class seem to be in short supply elsewhere (not necessarily commenting on the current feud, just making a general oobservation based on the experiences of the last couple of months.)