How fast of a computer do you REALLY need?
Sunday, August 19, 2001 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
My office machine died last week. One of the CPUs went bad (one of two). Ticked off, I started looking at getting a brand new mega machine. My current work machine is a dual (now single) 650mhz P3 setup with 512MB of RAM.
So I go over to Dell's site and look at the top of the line workstations - 1 gig RAM, dual Xeon 1.7Ghz P4's, etc.
Then it dawned on me. Have computers simply lost their umph or has software simply not advanced fast enough to make getting such a mega system worth it?
I remember back in 1991 getting a 386SX-16 and getting a noticeable performance improvement simply by playing around with shadow bios.
But now, the various machines I have here at home don't really show much difference. I have a 1Ghz machine on the other side of this room that I"m not even using to type this (the P3-800mhz laptop is the main machine).
So what's the deal? Unless I'm doing CAD or rendering or something, what is a P4-1ghz (a dual no less) going to do for me, a developer, that a dual 650 setup won't be able to do in almost the exact same amount of time?
What are your views?
So I go over to Dell's site and look at the top of the line workstations - 1 gig RAM, dual Xeon 1.7Ghz P4's, etc.
Then it dawned on me. Have computers simply lost their umph or has software simply not advanced fast enough to make getting such a mega system worth it?
I remember back in 1991 getting a 386SX-16 and getting a noticeable performance improvement simply by playing around with shadow bios.
But now, the various machines I have here at home don't really show much difference. I have a 1Ghz machine on the other side of this room that I"m not even using to type this (the P3-800mhz laptop is the main machine).
So what's the deal? Unless I'm doing CAD or rendering or something, what is a P4-1ghz (a dual no less) going to do for me, a developer, that a dual 650 setup won't be able to do in almost the exact same amount of time?
What are your views?
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Transmutate
Reply #2 Sunday, August 19, 2001 9:09 PM
Reply #2 Sunday, August 19, 2001 9:09 PM
i still have an old 500mhz, 256MB ram....i find that i can work on it without any probs (unless i'm working at 300dpi, instead of 72dpi).....i'm going to upgrade in the next month or so to a 1.1Ghz system just because it's cheap 
Alexandrie
Reply #3 Sunday, August 19, 2001 9:23 PM
Reply #3 Sunday, August 19, 2001 9:23 PM
doing a lot of graphics stuff.
So I would like
Dual 1GHZ
Matrox millenium 500 dual head
1024MB RAM
So I would like
Dual 1GHZ
Matrox millenium 500 dual head
1024MB RAM
Dangeruss
Reply #4 Sunday, August 19, 2001 9:23 PM
Reply #4 Sunday, August 19, 2001 9:23 PM
3.5 terrahertz please, directly neural wired perhaps. 45 inch HDTV resolution plasma screen or retinal imaging system. Of course I need the bubblenet modem for data transfer at 5 terrabits/sec.
Oh yeah, for under $1000,00 US too.
Oh to live in Dangerussland...
Oh yeah, for under $1000,00 US too.
Oh to live in Dangerussland...
Jafo
Reply #5 Sunday, August 19, 2001 9:27 PM
Reply #5 Sunday, August 19, 2001 9:27 PM
Russ...can I come visit?
I got my own mountain bike...
I got my own mountain bike...
DavidK
Reply #6 Sunday, August 19, 2001 9:34 PM
Reply #6 Sunday, August 19, 2001 9:34 PM
I had a horrendous failure too. Lost the hard drive in my notebook and corrupted a lot of my desktop's files. This is a real wake-up call for me as far as mirroring and backing up goes... I'm a believer now.
As for speed, I too remember the increase that you got with faster processor speeds being obvious in screen draws and saving files. Now it seems that the speed is a false promise after a certain point. Although, that being said, I am definitly upgrading my desktop from the 450MhzPII to something a bit more robust as soon as I can afford it. I just finished a 4-color print job that crawled through every phase of creating it. (though certainly, the corrupted files from a failing hard drive controller didn't help)
As for speed, I too remember the increase that you got with faster processor speeds being obvious in screen draws and saving files. Now it seems that the speed is a false promise after a certain point. Although, that being said, I am definitly upgrading my desktop from the 450MhzPII to something a bit more robust as soon as I can afford it. I just finished a 4-color print job that crawled through every phase of creating it. (though certainly, the corrupted files from a failing hard drive controller didn't help)
craeonics
Reply #7 Sunday, August 19, 2001 9:41 PM
Reply #7 Sunday, August 19, 2001 9:41 PM
Umm... p75? I won't be happy until my machine can boot in under five seconds. Even my amd800 takes forever to boot. As for screens, I definitely want to get rid of them monitors. What I want is a high resolution beamer... or two even. I'd better start saving already.
MobiusCo
Reply #8 Sunday, August 19, 2001 9:45 PM
Reply #8 Sunday, August 19, 2001 9:45 PM
Well a little insight, I have an old P2 450 mhz that is now strictly a file server, then a P3 800 that is a secondary machine. The new P4 1.7 is the main system. As for insight, if I go to render an image to full poster size on the P3 it takes 5 days, while on the P4 it takes just about 2 hours. Now you may not be working with large files or rendering, but think of the next year or two, or the delay in waiting for files to open, or apps to open. In a day calculate the amount of time you wait for the apps and that is the time you will be saving. True very little software is pulling the potential of the P4's but in a short time they will, expecially since Intel just cut the 1.7 P4 price in half. Personally if I could trade the two older systems in for an even swap to a second P4 I would in a heartbeat. The speed in the processor and bus speed to me makes it well worth the change. ANd what is wrong with MORE POWER
Jim
Reply #9 Sunday, August 19, 2001 10:05 PM
Reply #9 Sunday, August 19, 2001 10:05 PM
I think it all depends on what your going to do with your PC. At work I use a P2, 233MHz, 96MB Ram, Win95 laptop, on which I'm running AutoCad 14, and a number of other CAD apps at the same time. Yes I cater to its lack of power, but I get my work done. Its a hard call, if your doing alot of graphics with fills, you'll need power. How is the system running with one CPU, could you get use to it.
BoXXi
Reply #10 Sunday, August 19, 2001 10:17 PM
Reply #10 Sunday, August 19, 2001 10:17 PM
I'm still running a PII 233MHz with 128 mb ram, an 8mb matrox card 3gb hard drive and 15" monitor. I hate the thing, and would give anything for something better. I will say this though, since I installed Win ME, it hasn't crashed once! about 5-6 months now. Please contribute to the "Buy BoXXi a better system fund". Thank you.
hoverboy
Reply #11 Sunday, August 19, 2001 10:23 PM
Reply #11 Sunday, August 19, 2001 10:23 PM
Well, being a gamer, I have to say that I can totally see a difference using a P4 1.8/Geforce 3 over any other system combo that I can slap together. But I have to say Frog, that at this point, you're right. How fast do you need to do something work-wise? At the 700MHz plus range, you're going to get your work done pretty fast regardless...
btw - for all-around performance, I'd recommend an AMD 1.2+, but for sheer gaming power, the P4 1.8 is a benchmark killer.
btw - for all-around performance, I'd recommend an AMD 1.2+, but for sheer gaming power, the P4 1.8 is a benchmark killer.
paxx
Reply #12 Sunday, August 19, 2001 10:49 PM
Reply #12 Sunday, August 19, 2001 10:49 PM
Well, at home, I still have my P2 333Mhtz, and I really see no incentive to upgrade. I will get more RAm and more disk space, but other than that, everything runs as fast as I'd like them to.
CygnusXII
Reply #13 Sunday, August 19, 2001 11:31 PM
Reply #13 Sunday, August 19, 2001 11:31 PM
I moved from my old PII 266, to a PIII 550, noticed minor improvments, then I moved to a PIII 850, works plenty fine for everything I want to do. Heck even my 266 laptop, does the job fairly, well.
juni
Reply #14 Monday, August 20, 2001 12:50 AM
Reply #14 Monday, August 20, 2001 12:50 AM
Moved from an AMD 
300 to a P4 1800/Geforce 3 machine and I notice a remarkable improvement in everything. 
300 to a P4 1800/Geforce 3 machine and I notice a remarkable improvement in everything. 
indigoe
Reply #15 Monday, August 20, 2001 12:59 AM
Reply #15 Monday, August 20, 2001 12:59 AM
I have a little weird AMD450 and I can feel a lot of difference when moving over to a friends 1 gig Athlon. Photoshop crawls a lot, sometimes even at smaller files. An upgrade is definitely in order now, and nothing less than a 1.2Gig, as I'm also a gamer
As for WinME not crashing, it crashed twice on the first day I installed it... and this trend continued for as long as I used it.
One thought, do programmers spend less time optimising the performance of their software, and just take it for granted that users have the fastest and latest? I remember when optimisiation was everything, to get the most possible out of a system. Soon it seems, we will begin to see minimum requirements 1.5gGig+ processors.
As for WinME not crashing, it crashed twice on the first day I installed it... and this trend continued for as long as I used it.
One thought, do programmers spend less time optimising the performance of their software, and just take it for granted that users have the fastest and latest? I remember when optimisiation was everything, to get the most possible out of a system. Soon it seems, we will begin to see minimum requirements 1.5gGig+ processors.
Fa65*BFh
Reply #16 Monday, August 20, 2001 1:22 AM
Reply #16 Monday, August 20, 2001 1:22 AM
The faster the better, look, here i got this p3 800 with a Voodoo 5 5550 and 360 RAM, and i can run 800 x 600 3d games with x2 sample FSAA at pretty fast frme rates...
Thats cool, but my uncle has his double P3 850 with also a Voodoo 5 5500 and 540 RAM and he run games 1280 x 1024 with x4 sampe FSAA at faster frame rates than me. Thats HELL nice, you can see the enemy eye before snipe him.
Off course its very expensive for just gaming but is what he use that computer for... pretty sad..
Thats cool, but my uncle has his double P3 850 with also a Voodoo 5 5500 and 540 RAM and he run games 1280 x 1024 with x4 sampe FSAA at faster frame rates than me. Thats HELL nice, you can see the enemy eye before snipe him.
Off course its very expensive for just gaming but is what he use that computer for... pretty sad..
GreenReaper
Reply #17 Monday, August 20, 2001 1:56 AM
Reply #17 Monday, August 20, 2001 1:56 AM
I agree, Indigoe, although it helps if users don't do stupid things that cut performance. There's many skinners who would do well to consider performance when they skin, too -
pjpowell
Reply #18 Monday, August 20, 2001 2:51 AM
Reply #18 Monday, August 20, 2001 2:51 AM
Are your guidelines for a fast skin posted up anywhere? New skinners probably won't know that tiling is faster than stretching and it's generally better to have a larger tilable image than the smallest possible.
craeonics
Reply #19 Monday, August 20, 2001 8:58 AM
Reply #19 Monday, August 20, 2001 8:58 AM
Skinning generally isn't too good for system performance anyway.
Buzz_Hog
Reply #20 Monday, August 20, 2001 11:34 AM
Reply #20 Monday, August 20, 2001 11:34 AM
I've got three machines running at home...
Main WS
PIII 1Gig with 512M Ram and a GeForce2 Ultra Card
Secondary WS
PIII 550 with 192M RAM and ATI Rage Pro 128 vid card
E-mail and Web Server
PIII 600 with 320m RAM and ATI Rage Pro 128 Vid card
Personally all machines run equally fast for normal usage. The extra RAM in my main WS gives the ability to multitask a bit more as well as handle large (320Meg images) a lot more quickly.
While rendering, there is a definite advantage to a higher end processesor, but never noticed the render taking up any additional RAM.
All in all, for the everyday user doing basic computer work and skinning stuff, a PIII 600 with 256 Meg RAM would suffice just fine.
Main WS
PIII 1Gig with 512M Ram and a GeForce2 Ultra Card
Secondary WS
PIII 550 with 192M RAM and ATI Rage Pro 128 vid card
E-mail and Web Server
PIII 600 with 320m RAM and ATI Rage Pro 128 Vid card
Personally all machines run equally fast for normal usage. The extra RAM in my main WS gives the ability to multitask a bit more as well as handle large (320Meg images) a lot more quickly.
While rendering, there is a definite advantage to a higher end processesor, but never noticed the render taking up any additional RAM.
All in all, for the everyday user doing basic computer work and skinning stuff, a PIII 600 with 256 Meg RAM would suffice just fine.
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Reply #1 Sunday, August 19, 2001 9:04 PM
It doesn't matter how fast your computer is.....when it hangs, it hangs at exactly the same speed....;(