A comment caught my eye. . . .and a proposal for the benefit of the community
Saturday, August 18, 2001 by hegramet | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I thought this should be in it's own thread. . . In the post http://scripts.wincustomize.com/msgboardid.asp?id=17381 TomCruise says that Stardock won't place the skins for competitor's products on this site. While this is understandable from a purely market perspective, it makes me wonder about the commitment of Stardock to the skinning community. Please don't misunderstand me, I love stardock's products and am a registered OD member, and I know they put out great software. However, the site's mission statement is "The goal of this site is to act as a general skin site to the community." A general skin site would allow the community to be the judge as to what the site should host, or host enough variety to satisfy the whole community. Furthermore, the existence of competition is beneficial to the community, though not to stardock, as it is a driving force for both better products, better service, and better prices. If this site is devoted to the general community, and not stardock, then it would promote competition. I propose that either the mission statement be changed (to remove the pretense of community) or the site be ammended to include the skins of competitor's products.
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paxx
Reply #2 Saturday, August 18, 2001 5:45 PM
Reply #2 Saturday, August 18, 2001 5:45 PM
hegramet, you're probably new around here, or you missed out one thread or two...
We've had this discussion before... Just to put you up to date: while this is indeed a Stardock web site mainly featuring its own products, some people will say that it doesn't make it less a community web site, while other people argue that a true community site should not favour one product over another. With some huge amount of people visiting, it is argued by some that this fact alone should make it a community site, since the people are the one forming a community not a company.
I encourage you to read the thread "Register your software", where the hot of this topic is discussed towards the middle of that thread.
Oh, and I will also let you in on a secret: TomCruise is not really a user, but the alter ego of a more active member of this web site. Somebody made that post in the thread you refered to out of anonymous humour.
Oh, and no it wasn't me.
There is also NicoleKidman serving as the alter eog of another member of this website...
We've had this discussion before... Just to put you up to date: while this is indeed a Stardock web site mainly featuring its own products, some people will say that it doesn't make it less a community web site, while other people argue that a true community site should not favour one product over another. With some huge amount of people visiting, it is argued by some that this fact alone should make it a community site, since the people are the one forming a community not a company.
I encourage you to read the thread "Register your software", where the hot of this topic is discussed towards the middle of that thread.
Oh, and I will also let you in on a secret: TomCruise is not really a user, but the alter ego of a more active member of this web site. Somebody made that post in the thread you refered to out of anonymous humour.
Oh, and no it wasn't me.
There is also NicoleKidman serving as the alter eog of another member of this website...
hegramet
Reply #3 Saturday, August 18, 2001 6:21 PM
Reply #3 Saturday, August 18, 2001 6:21 PM
Just so you know my backround, I've been into skinning since the days of custo, and through the death of skins. . .This site has always bugged me somewhat, so I haven't followed the message board (ok, I admit it, I don't like Brad Wardell for personal reasons, and I don't expect anyone to believe me, as they haven't before). I just finished reading the Register your software thread, and I understand that this has been discussed. . . However, Brad Wardell refuses to acknowledge that if his company has veto power over the content of the site, no matter the content of the site (as in lack of large stardock ads) the site is corporate and for the benefit of the company before it is for the benefit of the community. . .I'm not saying that he has no right to make it a company site, but he should be honest that though there is a community of people who use company's software here, this is not the skinning community itself. I repeat, as long as stardock has veto power, this is not the skinning community. I just want honesty here, I refuse to participate in a lie. . . .Brad, simply change the about section.
craeonics
Reply #4 Saturday, August 18, 2001 6:23 PM
Reply #4 Saturday, August 18, 2001 6:23 PM
Oh god, not this again...
Hmm, paxxy let me in on the secret...
Hmm, paxxy let me in on the secret...
hegramet
Reply #5 Saturday, August 18, 2001 6:31 PM
Reply #5 Saturday, August 18, 2001 6:31 PM
creaonics - shut up you insolent piece of anti-intellectual trash!!!!! This issue is not resolved by your stupid comments. . . back to the issue. . .I think that maybe there should be a vote on what should be hosted on the site (if this is a community site), and then the content could be decided from there. . .surely democracy is a better measure of a free community than capitalism.
craeonics
Reply #6 Saturday, August 18, 2001 6:41 PM
Reply #6 Saturday, August 18, 2001 6:41 PM
Temper temper... That post of mine was being typed while you were typing yours. so I missed out on that one. You must be misconceived that this site is a democracy. The admins decide what happen, no matter how hard we might disagree.
Listen to craeonics!
hegramet
Reply #8 Saturday, August 18, 2001 6:48 PM
Reply #8 Saturday, August 18, 2001 6:48 PM
it's not a democracy. . .no shit!! Could it be? Not if it's owned by stardock as opposed to being ostensibly a skinning community. How could variety and competition be bad for anyone but stardock in this case. . .Are they acting in your best interests by not allowing it? NO! So don't defend them or their decisions; you don't get paid to. . .they do. . .I would like to hear from Brad on this topic. And so you know my position, I would like to have this not be a stardock controlled site, but if that is the way they want it, then they should be honest.
hegramet
Reply #9 Saturday, August 18, 2001 6:49 PM
Reply #9 Saturday, August 18, 2001 6:49 PM
And china, plz, stay on topic. This is a fairly serious issue.
Tarkus
Reply #10 Saturday, August 18, 2001 7:16 PM
Reply #10 Saturday, August 18, 2001 7:16 PM
That's a great idea for a vote! I think everyone should be able to vote, with their financial contribution correlating directly with the power of their vote.
Whattaya think, Frogboy?
Whattaya think, Frogboy?
kith
Reply #11 Saturday, August 18, 2001 7:33 PM
Reply #11 Saturday, August 18, 2001 7:33 PM
I think hegramet should buy himself a room full of servers and host his own little corner of the universe. Really though, getting this worked up over something so silly makes no sense. It's the weekend, go out have a few drinks, direct your anger somewhere else...
Doreen
Reply #12 Saturday, August 18, 2001 8:09 PM
Reply #12 Saturday, August 18, 2001 8:09 PM
Skinz.org was the ideal site. In our mind, it was the perfect skin site.
by Admin Frogboy - 8/12/2001 10:44:22 PM
and so some of us "thought" wincustomize would follow skinz.org's example and list "all" skinnable apps, as was assumed by wincusto being referred to as a kinda skinz.org forever.org thingy! hehe
however "most" members caught on quickly that was not the case and realized this is a different site called wincustomize.com not skinz.org
Brad should reword the mission statement to:
WinCustomize, however, strives to contain most of the very popular ones but not too competing apps cuz he said so himself "why should he?"
yes I agree w/ hegramet the mission statment maybe should be more clear to stop these agruments! (however that need be to stop the confusion here)
oh and....
The admins decide what happen, no matter how hard we might disagree.
by craeonics - 8/18/2001 6:41:08 PM
Listen to crae & China
by Admin Frogboy - 8/12/2001 10:44:22 PM
and so some of us "thought" wincustomize would follow skinz.org's example and list "all" skinnable apps, as was assumed by wincusto being referred to as a kinda skinz.org forever.org thingy! hehe
however "most" members caught on quickly that was not the case and realized this is a different site called wincustomize.com not skinz.org
Brad should reword the mission statement to:
WinCustomize, however, strives to contain most of the very popular ones but not too competing apps cuz he said so himself "why should he?"
yes I agree w/ hegramet the mission statment maybe should be more clear to stop these agruments! (however that need be to stop the confusion here)
oh and....
The admins decide what happen, no matter how hard we might disagree.
by craeonics - 8/18/2001 6:41:08 PM
Listen to crae & China
rmiles7721
Reply #13 Saturday, August 18, 2001 8:15 PM
Reply #13 Saturday, August 18, 2001 8:15 PM
I agree that their is no sense in getting worked up over it. They probably should add a disclaimer along the lines of "this site is primarily supported through a grant provided by Stardock, blah blah, and so on", but other than that, no big deal. I primarily use Stardocks stuff, as it is well written, well supported, and will probably be around for awhile. I also use Nextstart and lots of other small apps. When I want litestep themes, I go to ls.com, and make the rounds of several other sites as well. They all have their own sets of rules, and different admins, and NO ONE site has skins for all of the products that I use.
I figure that if SD does not want to host skins for certain programs, that is their business, those that disagree can go elsewhere and find a site that they DO like.
One of the things that might make this less SD dependent (or "owned") is for more people to financially support it. If you haven't bought a CD or shirt, or created skins, themes, etc, you have no right to bitch about the content that is on the site.
Sorry about the rambling post, just finished moving furniture all day, almost time to sleep.
I figure that if SD does not want to host skins for certain programs, that is their business, those that disagree can go elsewhere and find a site that they DO like.
One of the things that might make this less SD dependent (or "owned") is for more people to financially support it. If you haven't bought a CD or shirt, or created skins, themes, etc, you have no right to bitch about the content that is on the site.
Sorry about the rambling post, just finished moving furniture all day, almost time to sleep.
Doreen
Reply #15 Saturday, August 18, 2001 8:38 PM
Reply #15 Saturday, August 18, 2001 8:38 PM
me either China
did you say you never stay on top or topic?
hehe
did you say you never stay on top or topic?
hehe
Doreen
Reply #16 Saturday, August 18, 2001 8:48 PM
Reply #16 Saturday, August 18, 2001 8:48 PM
okay where is Jafo he should be here soon?
hehe China
hehe China
Frogboy
Reply #17 Saturday, August 18, 2001 8:53 PM
Reply #17 Saturday, August 18, 2001 8:53 PM
Man, I feel like I'm in one of those group therapies. Except here I'm the assigned enabler.
I don't know what you really want from us. No, we're not going to change the mission statement. I am part of the skin community. Stardock has been part of the skin community from the beginning. Even if this site only had Stardock sections, it would still be a community site in my view. Someone may disagree but that's how we see it. WinCustomize strives to contain MOST of the popular ones. And it does.
Other than creating a heated, debate, I'm not sure what constructive end one is hoping for. We all have differing views on what "the community" is.
I don't know what you really want from us. No, we're not going to change the mission statement. I am part of the skin community. Stardock has been part of the skin community from the beginning. Even if this site only had Stardock sections, it would still be a community site in my view. Someone may disagree but that's how we see it. WinCustomize strives to contain MOST of the popular ones. And it does.
Other than creating a heated, debate, I'm not sure what constructive end one is hoping for. We all have differing views on what "the community" is.
Frogboy
Reply #18 Saturday, August 18, 2001 9:00 PM
Reply #18 Saturday, August 18, 2001 9:00 PM
BTW, anyone caught creating alias users (such as "Tom Cruise") will be exiled.
Jafo
Reply #20 Saturday, August 18, 2001 9:03 PM
Reply #20 Saturday, August 18, 2001 9:03 PM
To be strictly accurate, WinCustomize is just like skinz.org when the latter first started....namely, just a skinning site created, owned and run by people who are enthusiastic about skinning. Neither had/have ALL available skin proggy sections supported.
The difference now is that skinz.org died a death due to the hard working efforts of eFront, a company with ABSOLUTELY NO interest in skinning, hence the outcome of the site.
Now, the strange thing is, I'm not the one-eyed user of Stardock's products that PPL might imagine - thus colouring my judgement.....
I'm a LiteSTEP user/themer and even only just yesterday actually installed DesktopX [crashing LiteSTEP, BTW...but I'll sort that].
I couldn't, however be MORE supportive of Stardock's involvement in this site. I see it as a true 'PLUS', not a detriment.
The financial viability/stability far and away outstrips the concerns of lack of product diversity...[really we are all talking Hoverdesk, now aren't we?].
As has been said many times before, hosting a competitor's product, if it endangers the commercial success/viability of the host/site is a 'Bad Thing' [tm]. [ I'm off to the Coke factory to buy some Pepsi].
Finally.....
There really is no reason to complain about craeonics or China being on/off topic, whatever.
This is a forum, open to all to comment with impunity...
The difference now is that skinz.org died a death due to the hard working efforts of eFront, a company with ABSOLUTELY NO interest in skinning, hence the outcome of the site.
Now, the strange thing is, I'm not the one-eyed user of Stardock's products that PPL might imagine - thus colouring my judgement.....
I'm a LiteSTEP user/themer and even only just yesterday actually installed DesktopX [crashing LiteSTEP, BTW...but I'll sort that].
I couldn't, however be MORE supportive of Stardock's involvement in this site. I see it as a true 'PLUS', not a detriment.
The financial viability/stability far and away outstrips the concerns of lack of product diversity...[really we are all talking Hoverdesk, now aren't we?].
As has been said many times before, hosting a competitor's product, if it endangers the commercial success/viability of the host/site is a 'Bad Thing' [tm]. [ I'm off to the Coke factory to buy some Pepsi].
Finally.....
There really is no reason to complain about craeonics or China being on/off topic, whatever.
This is a forum, open to all to comment with impunity...
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Reply #1 Saturday, August 18, 2001 5:40 PM