ADMINS: something is severly wrong
Sunday, August 5, 2001 by berzerka | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
hi, i have found a recurring problem with the wallpapers section:
i submit a wallpaper, it shows up, and then a few hours later its no longer on the site
what just happened now is that my wallpaper was on the main page between sunset for WallPapers and circus for WallPapers. it has now been replaced with Pill Pop for WallPapers.
My wallpaper isnt anywhere on the wallpaper download pages, but it is in my skins section (http://scripts.wincustomize.com/skins.asp?AuthorID=3748 clear windows)
please help!
i submit a wallpaper, it shows up, and then a few hours later its no longer on the site
what just happened now is that my wallpaper was on the main page between sunset for WallPapers and circus for WallPapers. it has now been replaced with Pill Pop for WallPapers.
My wallpaper isnt anywhere on the wallpaper download pages, but it is in my skins section (http://scripts.wincustomize.com/skins.asp?AuthorID=3748 clear windows)
please help!
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BoXXi
Reply #22 Monday, August 6, 2001 2:00 PM
Reply #22 Monday, August 6, 2001 2:00 PM
Brad, can't you just dump the ratings? surely THAT will save bandwidth on it's own. Personally I don't care what rating someone gives me, what good does it do me? I am not going to go back and change that piece because someone rated it low, what's done is done, and I'm already making my next image. Art is subjective, how many times have we discussed this on these myriad boards?, all you are doing is depriving someone else of viewing an image that THEY might adore.
I don't know why I'm suddenly on a crusade about this, it's not my style. I'm saying no more on the subject.
Please re-read Paxx's post above to see what a nonsense is being made of the rating system.
I don't know why I'm suddenly on a crusade about this, it's not my style. I'm saying no more on the subject.
Please re-read Paxx's post above to see what a nonsense is being made of the rating system.
paxx
Reply #23 Monday, August 6, 2001 4:35 PM
Reply #23 Monday, August 6, 2001 4:35 PM
Oh, BoXXi, hasn't anyone told you? As a general rule, I AM a nonsense myself. So don't try to find any in anything I do or say.
No, really, it's no secret to anyone that I am against the rating system as much as I'm against the class system. I am a democratic man, I say, let the masses decide what skin is cool and who is the best. Therefore I will never rate anything unless, as I said, I see a piece of art that is rated in total contradiction with the true judge: the masses.
No, really, it's no secret to anyone that I am against the rating system as much as I'm against the class system. I am a democratic man, I say, let the masses decide what skin is cool and who is the best. Therefore I will never rate anything unless, as I said, I see a piece of art that is rated in total contradiction with the true judge: the masses.
BoXXi
Reply #24 Monday, August 6, 2001 5:00 PM
Reply #24 Monday, August 6, 2001 5:00 PM
Patrick, I don't think you are a nonsense, I agree totally with what you said.
Jafo
Reply #25 Monday, August 6, 2001 7:28 PM
Reply #25 Monday, August 6, 2001 7:28 PM
The 'true judge, the masses' will have every Wallpaper collection ending up as Britney Spears getting hot and sweaty with a Windows XP logo....probably in blue....
In WinAMP, the same will apply....
In LiteSTEP/Hoverdesk/Nextstart/DesktopX, it will be XP themes [with the Britney wall]....[of course, that was once Matrix themes]....
Popular art of any format is just that, 'popular'.
It doesn't necessarily make it good, or original, or truly inspiring, just popular.
Rating of another's artwork should be handled responsibly, not a knee-jerk reaction to a perception of alleged wrong-doing.
You should be intelligent and mature enough to be able to look at something critically and make a value judgement, based on your own opinions of the work.
OK, it all goes belly-up if there are insufficient ratings to reflect a more 'general' worth, but that is easily fixed.
Just rate the darn things.
But do it like it means something to you, just as you would want others to respect yours....
In WinAMP, the same will apply....
In LiteSTEP/Hoverdesk/Nextstart/DesktopX, it will be XP themes [with the Britney wall]....[of course, that was once Matrix themes]....
Popular art of any format is just that, 'popular'.
It doesn't necessarily make it good, or original, or truly inspiring, just popular.
Rating of another's artwork should be handled responsibly, not a knee-jerk reaction to a perception of alleged wrong-doing.
You should be intelligent and mature enough to be able to look at something critically and make a value judgement, based on your own opinions of the work.
OK, it all goes belly-up if there are insufficient ratings to reflect a more 'general' worth, but that is easily fixed.
Just rate the darn things.
But do it like it means something to you, just as you would want others to respect yours....
berzerka
Reply #26 Monday, August 6, 2001 7:43 PM
Reply #26 Monday, August 6, 2001 7:43 PM
Jafo, i agree with what your saying
however:
ratings do not help the artist, mayb if with the ratings you had to give a reason for that rating, then it would b a better system
however:
ratings do not help the artist, mayb if with the ratings you had to give a reason for that rating, then it would b a better system
Jafo
Reply #27 Monday, August 6, 2001 8:55 PM
Reply #27 Monday, August 6, 2001 8:55 PM
No, the ratings in themselves don't help the artist....but then they are not strictly intended to.
The artist is better served by comments on the work, where the value and significance of the comment can be assessed by seeing who made it.
Perhaps similar could be done for the ratings, except a 'true' opinion of a work may be softened by the intimidation of embarassment if you were to rate a friend's work poorly...
The artist is better served by comments on the work, where the value and significance of the comment can be assessed by seeing who made it.
Perhaps similar could be done for the ratings, except a 'true' opinion of a work may be softened by the intimidation of embarassment if you were to rate a friend's work poorly...
Frogboy
Reply #28 Monday, August 6, 2001 9:06 PM
Reply #28 Monday, August 6, 2001 9:06 PM
The ratings are for the users, not for the artists really. And they're for the site. By having ratings, the site can help filter out "stuff".
Other sites would simply delete most of the wallpapers. That's how skinz.org handled it and the result was constant message board flame wars. We have a much more liberal policy, we let in most wallpapers and then use the rating system to help people filter out stuff.
It may not seem fair to the artist at times (because it's not always fair) but when you have 600+ wallpapers, there has to be some way for the casual user to quickly browse. And let's face it, anything that's gotten a 6+ rating is probably a pretty darn good wallpaper.
And ratings are a fact of life. The game I spent years developing, The Corporate Machine, got an 8.4 on Gamespot (a good review but they even have decimal places in their rating). Why do they have that? So that users, who have tons of games to choose from, can filter out the "Crap" from the good stuff.
When we create WinCustomize, we didn't want to have it where only the admins and moderators would rate skins. We wanted to open it up where trusted users could do so. The entire access (or class system) is essentially a "trust" system similar to what you have on your own browser. The higher the access group, the more the Admins trust the user. So as their access increases, the more Admin functions that user gets access to since the Admins can trust that user not to be irresponsible. Ratings are one of those features.
Without ratings, there'd only be 100 wallpaper. Because it would be the Admins deciding what stays and I can tell you, I don't like 90% of the wallpaper and would ask that admins and moderators reject all but the very very very best wallpaper to the site (i.e. if it's not good enough for digitalblasphemy.com, it would be rejected).
That's really the alternative though. Ratings or rejections.
Other sites would simply delete most of the wallpapers. That's how skinz.org handled it and the result was constant message board flame wars. We have a much more liberal policy, we let in most wallpapers and then use the rating system to help people filter out stuff.
It may not seem fair to the artist at times (because it's not always fair) but when you have 600+ wallpapers, there has to be some way for the casual user to quickly browse. And let's face it, anything that's gotten a 6+ rating is probably a pretty darn good wallpaper.
And ratings are a fact of life. The game I spent years developing, The Corporate Machine, got an 8.4 on Gamespot (a good review but they even have decimal places in their rating). Why do they have that? So that users, who have tons of games to choose from, can filter out the "Crap" from the good stuff.
When we create WinCustomize, we didn't want to have it where only the admins and moderators would rate skins. We wanted to open it up where trusted users could do so. The entire access (or class system) is essentially a "trust" system similar to what you have on your own browser. The higher the access group, the more the Admins trust the user. So as their access increases, the more Admin functions that user gets access to since the Admins can trust that user not to be irresponsible. Ratings are one of those features.
Without ratings, there'd only be 100 wallpaper. Because it would be the Admins deciding what stays and I can tell you, I don't like 90% of the wallpaper and would ask that admins and moderators reject all but the very very very best wallpaper to the site (i.e. if it's not good enough for digitalblasphemy.com, it would be rejected).
That's really the alternative though. Ratings or rejections.
paxx
Reply #30 Tuesday, August 7, 2001 9:12 AM
Reply #30 Tuesday, August 7, 2001 9:12 AM
Frogboy: there is another solution, let the download count do the ratings. Give each skin and wallpaper an exposure time (say one or two weeks), and if after that time the download count is not above a given number, then the skin/wallpaper is sent at the bottom of the list. The result would be the same as filtering with ratings, except it would be filtering with download numbers.
Jafo: copyrights take care of your problem. There could not be any Britnet Spears wallpaper, skin or theme because Britney's pictures are copyrighted.
Jafo: copyrights take care of your problem. There could not be any Britnet Spears wallpaper, skin or theme because Britney's pictures are copyrighted.
broken
Reply #32 Tuesday, August 7, 2001 10:39 AM
Reply #32 Tuesday, August 7, 2001 10:39 AM
A properly implemented rating system would be fantastic for WC. Has anyone here done a search of wallpapers arranged by rating? Try it sometime, start at page 13 and work your way forward. Just keep in mind that there are a LOT of wallpapers not listed at all because they received bad ratings.
As an example, I posted a completely red, unoriginal wallpaper with a windows logo in the center. Being sick of all of the Code Red hype I made it, I use it on my desktop and decided to post it here, maybe it would make someone else feel a little better. To not have it listed with all of the other 1.7 million XP skins/wps on here I left out the word windows, xp and britney spears in my description. 25 hours later it has 150 downloads and is rated so low it's not shown for anyone, but still gets a fair amount of downloads. Don't get me wrong I'm very happy with 150DLs.
ANYWAY...my point is, the rating system needs to be thought out a little better. At the minimum I feel that the ratings should be shown. Sorry this was so long...and thanks for not deleting me
As an example, I posted a completely red, unoriginal wallpaper with a windows logo in the center. Being sick of all of the Code Red hype I made it, I use it on my desktop and decided to post it here, maybe it would make someone else feel a little better. To not have it listed with all of the other 1.7 million XP skins/wps on here I left out the word windows, xp and britney spears in my description. 25 hours later it has 150 downloads and is rated so low it's not shown for anyone, but still gets a fair amount of downloads. Don't get me wrong I'm very happy with 150DLs.
ANYWAY...my point is, the rating system needs to be thought out a little better. At the minimum I feel that the ratings should be shown. Sorry this was so long...and thanks for not deleting me
Hell Dragon
Reply #33 Tuesday, August 7, 2001 11:01 AM
Reply #33 Tuesday, August 7, 2001 11:01 AM
Personally, I think the filtering of the skins/wallpapers should only 'kick in' after at least 5 seperate people have rated it...
paxx
Reply #34 Tuesday, August 7, 2001 12:15 PM
Reply #34 Tuesday, August 7, 2001 12:15 PM
I guess I don't see things the same way as most here do. I used to have a skin - one of my firsts - that I thought was kinda bad. But it was getting constant downloads over at Skinz.org, so although I was temted to delete it, I left it up because some people apparently liked it. So why should I judge their taste and basically tell them "Well, you got no taste. I think it sucks so you can't have it."
Anyway, even if I agree some things are unoriginal and distasteful, I can't presume to have a more valuable opinion than others.
Anyway, even if I agree some things are unoriginal and distasteful, I can't presume to have a more valuable opinion than others.
Frogboy
Reply #35 Tuesday, August 7, 2001 1:11 PM
Reply #35 Tuesday, August 7, 2001 1:11 PM
Yea but we're snobs. If we were a wallpaper site, I might feel differently but we have wallpapers as a convenience. We don't want toh ave 20,000 wallpapers on the site.
But people like things like Britney Speer wallpapers and celebrity photo skins. That's not what Wincustomize is about. People can go to ezskins and get that kind of crap.
As I said, no rating system is perfect, but the one we have seems to work pretty well. I just wish more people would tkae the time to rate skins.
But people like things like Britney Speer wallpapers and celebrity photo skins. That's not what Wincustomize is about. People can go to ezskins and get that kind of crap.
As I said, no rating system is perfect, but the one we have seems to work pretty well. I just wish more people would tkae the time to rate skins.
paxx
Reply #36 Tuesday, August 7, 2001 1:48 PM
Reply #36 Tuesday, August 7, 2001 1:48 PM
Frogboy, I entirely agree with you.
What I said is you can easily filter out the Britney stuff by simply rejecting copyrighted stuff, as you already do.
And I even agree with creaming off the lesser good stuff. We only disagree on who decides what is good and what is bad. I say the masses decide, therefore a skin that doesn't get enough downloads could get deleted or sent waaay in the back of the queue.
What I said is you can easily filter out the Britney stuff by simply rejecting copyrighted stuff, as you already do.
And I even agree with creaming off the lesser good stuff. We only disagree on who decides what is good and what is bad. I say the masses decide, therefore a skin that doesn't get enough downloads could get deleted or sent waaay in the back of the queue.
craeonics
Reply #37 Tuesday, August 7, 2001 5:04 PM
Reply #37 Tuesday, August 7, 2001 5:04 PM
The masses are to dumb to walk around unguided. You'd get the XP and other OS crud as the most popular stuff. I'd like to see some quality and originality instead of that.
Here's a radical rating system, demote a user who gives a 1 or 10. People who rate extremely show that they know not what they're doing and should not be allowed to rate.
And like Hell Dragon asked, how many people can rate anyway?
Here's a radical rating system, demote a user who gives a 1 or 10. People who rate extremely show that they know not what they're doing and should not be allowed to rate.
And like Hell Dragon asked, how many people can rate anyway?
Jafo
Reply #38 Tuesday, August 7, 2001 5:51 PM
Reply #38 Tuesday, August 7, 2001 5:51 PM
Crae, how about....demote a person who doesn't use his position and abilities [ie....being able to rate] responsibly/enough....
craeonics
Reply #39 Tuesday, August 7, 2001 7:04 PM
Reply #39 Tuesday, August 7, 2001 7:04 PM
Aha, so that's why I'm still an Apprentice here.
paxx
Reply #40 Tuesday, August 7, 2001 8:28 PM
Reply #40 Tuesday, August 7, 2001 8:28 PM
Crae: "The masses are to dumb to walk around unguided."
But, they are the ones this site is for though... Without anybody to download, we're just a bunch of losers tooting each other's horn.
Jafo: Does that mean that if a citizen doesn't leave enough comments he should be demoted to visitor?
But, they are the ones this site is for though... Without anybody to download, we're just a bunch of losers tooting each other's horn.
Jafo: Does that mean that if a citizen doesn't leave enough comments he should be demoted to visitor?
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Reply #21 Monday, August 6, 2001 1:01 PM
cause otherwise they really arent useful