ADMINS: something is severly wrong
Sunday, August 5, 2001 by berzerka | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
hi, i have found a recurring problem with the wallpapers section:
i submit a wallpaper, it shows up, and then a few hours later its no longer on the site
what just happened now is that my wallpaper was on the main page between sunset for WallPapers and circus for WallPapers. it has now been replaced with Pill Pop for WallPapers.
My wallpaper isnt anywhere on the wallpaper download pages, but it is in my skins section (http://scripts.wincustomize.com/skins.asp?AuthorID=3748 clear windows)
please help!
i submit a wallpaper, it shows up, and then a few hours later its no longer on the site
what just happened now is that my wallpaper was on the main page between sunset for WallPapers and circus for WallPapers. it has now been replaced with Pill Pop for WallPapers.
My wallpaper isnt anywhere on the wallpaper download pages, but it is in my skins section (http://scripts.wincustomize.com/skins.asp?AuthorID=3748 clear windows)
please help!
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skinner7892
Reply #2 Sunday, August 5, 2001 4:01 PM
Reply #2 Sunday, August 5, 2001 4:01 PM
I think it's because of the rating your wallpaper gets. In your profile, by default, you will filter artworks that gets score under 3. Sadly for you, the rating of Clear Window is actually 2 which probably explains the situation.
Hope this will help you understand
Hope this will help you understand
berzerka
Reply #3 Sunday, August 5, 2001 4:07 PM
Reply #3 Sunday, August 5, 2001 4:07 PM
hmmmm, surely this isnt fair on me... can some1 up the rating, the people who download it obviously dont think its rubbish
242 downloads in one day obviosly dont relate to a 2
242 downloads in one day obviosly dont relate to a 2
skinner7892
Reply #4 Sunday, August 5, 2001 4:26 PM
Reply #4 Sunday, August 5, 2001 4:26 PM
Just checked and now your rating is 4 so your wallpaper should be available to everybody using default settings
Xymantix
Reply #5 Sunday, August 5, 2001 4:31 PM
Reply #5 Sunday, August 5, 2001 4:31 PM
Generally speaking, it's likely that the ratings won't always agree with the number of downloads or popularity. This doesn't mean that the rating system is broken - just think of it as two different ways of viewing people's opinions of your work. Raw download count shows how popular the wallpaper is. Ratings tend to be more critical (usually in a good sense) and help you to judge the artistic aspects of your work. In other words, you can put up a wallpaper that's visually very stunning, and thousands will download it. However, if it looks a lot like other, visually stunning wallpapers, it doesn't break new ground and won't get a particularly high rating.
It's similar to the movie ratings - many times critics dislike a particular film even though it's extremely popular. It can pull in millions, but the critics judge it on a different criteria. They include things like how it compares to the artist's past work and how it compares to their (perceived) individual potential. That may not sound fair, but that's the way these things go. It's like when your teacher gave you a low grade on a good paper because (s)he "knew you could do better".
Of course, these are all my own opinions and I could be wrong
It's similar to the movie ratings - many times critics dislike a particular film even though it's extremely popular. It can pull in millions, but the critics judge it on a different criteria. They include things like how it compares to the artist's past work and how it compares to their (perceived) individual potential. That may not sound fair, but that's the way these things go. It's like when your teacher gave you a low grade on a good paper because (s)he "knew you could do better".
Of course, these are all my own opinions and I could be wrong
skinner7892
Reply #7 Sunday, August 5, 2001 4:42 PM
Reply #7 Sunday, August 5, 2001 4:42 PM
Xymantix touched a very good point here which I agree with. But I would like to reinforce that because you get a low rating doesn't mean you're not a good artist! The thing is that not enough people rate skins/walls which means that if a single user doesn't like your skin and rate it 1, then you're out of luck So that's why I say you shouldn't be too concerned about your rating, especially if only very few users rated it.
So that's why I say you shouldn't be too concerned about your rating, especially if only very few users rated it.
JayG
Reply #8 Sunday, August 5, 2001 5:05 PM
Reply #8 Sunday, August 5, 2001 5:05 PM
the remake of planet of the apes is making lots of money. but the movie isn't really that good.
berzerka
Reply #9 Sunday, August 5, 2001 6:02 PM
Reply #9 Sunday, August 5, 2001 6:02 PM
hehe, that movie makes me feel sick, i dont like monkeys that look like humans
Hell Dragon
Reply #10 Sunday, August 5, 2001 6:11 PM
Reply #10 Sunday, August 5, 2001 6:11 PM
Just out of curiosity, do any of the admins know approximately how many people have access to rate stuff on winCustomize?
BoXXi
Reply #11 Sunday, August 5, 2001 8:58 PM
Reply #11 Sunday, August 5, 2001 8:58 PM
I know how you feel Berzerka. My "machine series" of wallpapers has been very popular everywhere, but someone rated two of them very low, (though they are all of similar quality) and those two have very few downloads which is a shame because it's probably depriving people who were collecting my Machine images. I think the rating system is totally worthless here. If you had a disagreement with someone, they could go and rate all your work as "1", and immediately your work is unavailable to the majority of users! It just doesn't make sense to me, and the sooner it's removed, the happier I will be! I consider downloads to be MY ratings, one of my walls has had something like 2800 downloads, but it's just hanging in there with a rating of 4. How can that be a true reflection? And that is what has happened to YOUR wall, someone maybe thought it looked a little too much like an XP wall, and decided to rate it low. I personally like your image, and I'm going over there now to give it a 10, so that everyone will see it again! I hope the admins see the way I am making a nonsense of the system and remove it forthwith. I am going to rate everything 10 from now on! They might remove my Journeyman status, but, I'll live !
juni
Reply #12 Monday, August 6, 2001 12:48 AM
Reply #12 Monday, August 6, 2001 12:48 AM
When I rate something it shows how many people have rated the work before me and usually there are one or two, maybe three ratings - not a big sample of opinions.
Jafo
Reply #13 Monday, August 6, 2001 1:41 AM
Reply #13 Monday, August 6, 2001 1:41 AM
BoXXi....the true mark of the rating system is when sufficient ratings have been applied to form a sensible average. Some people seem to think that dramatically influencing the scores by posting a 1 or a 10 will make a difference, but in the long term, they will hopefully be lost in the averaging....
BoXXi
Reply #14 Monday, August 6, 2001 6:45 AM
Reply #14 Monday, August 6, 2001 6:45 AM
Jafo... I understand what you are saying, but most of my stuff has only one or two ratings, or even none at all. THAT'S why it doesn't make sense. If absolutely EVERYONE rated EVERYTHING they viewed, then it might be worthwhile, but when the opinion of one person makes your work unavailable to everyone else, then I don't think that's right. I follow the teachings of the great "jsenn", who once told me: "If I review it, it gets 10, or A++, If I don't like it, I say nothing and walk away". I'm sure you'll agree that art is subjective, and I just don't believe a rating system that stops everyone seeing your work is right. Imagine going to an art gallery and being told that you can't look at certain paintings because the guy in front of you didn't like it!!
berzerka
Reply #15 Monday, August 6, 2001 7:21 AM
Reply #15 Monday, August 6, 2001 7:21 AM
I dont have a problem with the rating theory, however, the following improvements could be made:
1) any registered user could rate
2) the skinners should be able to see the ratings (ppl say the ratings are to help the skinners, but if we dont have access to them then that isnt really true)
3) ratings should only influence whether the skin is shown or not after 3 or 4 ratings.
Just a few ideas
1) any registered user could rate
2) the skinners should be able to see the ratings (ppl say the ratings are to help the skinners, but if we dont have access to them then that isnt really true)
3) ratings should only influence whether the skin is shown or not after 3 or 4 ratings.
Just a few ideas
Jafo
Reply #16 Monday, August 6, 2001 8:32 AM
Reply #16 Monday, August 6, 2001 8:32 AM
But BoXXi, that gallery you go to doesn't show you everything it has....there is someone in the back room making decisions on what is, and isn't displayed. And it's essentially for the same reasons, too.....space availability....
paxx
Reply #17 Monday, August 6, 2001 8:36 AM
Reply #17 Monday, August 6, 2001 8:36 AM
BoXXi: that's what I've been doing.
Welcome to my mission. hehehe!
But what I personnaly do is base myself on downloads. If I see a skin that has lots of downloads but has a stupid rating, I boost it with a 10. Otherwise, as a general rule, I never rate.
Welcome to my mission. hehehe!
But what I personnaly do is base myself on downloads. If I see a skin that has lots of downloads but has a stupid rating, I boost it with a 10. Otherwise, as a general rule, I never rate.
BoXXi
Reply #18 Monday, August 6, 2001 12:07 PM
Reply #18 Monday, August 6, 2001 12:07 PM
But Paul...... What is the point of me having Journeyman status so that my work bypasses moderation, only to have the first person who looks at it decide he doesn't like it, and effectively moderate it!!
DaWebMassa
Reply #19 Monday, August 6, 2001 12:09 PM
Reply #19 Monday, August 6, 2001 12:09 PM
One of my most popular downloads has a single rating and it is at 5... Yet, another one which has a rating of 9, has 1/3 the downloads.
As has been pointed out... I believe the ratings TRY to more reflect originality than popularity. Sometimes the two will coincide with each other and other times they won't.
I understand the complaints but do try and not pay too much attention to the ratings. Downloads and comments mean more to me.
As has been pointed out... I believe the ratings TRY to more reflect originality than popularity. Sometimes the two will coincide with each other and other times they won't.
I understand the complaints but do try and not pay too much attention to the ratings. Downloads and comments mean more to me.
Frogboy
Reply #20 Monday, August 6, 2001 12:24 PM
Reply #20 Monday, August 6, 2001 12:24 PM
No rating system is perfect. WinCustomize has an access system that promotes quasi-moderation. That is, rather than just have all 30,000 people with accounts putting in ratings and instead of just limiting it to moderators, those with access between user and moderator can also rate.
The odds of a "power user" access user making a poor judgement in ratings is about the same as an admin or moderator.
My personal beef with the ratings which I'm askinmg to be changed is that those with Journeyman access or higher get their works posted automatically with a "5" rating with it counting as a vote. That is unfair. It shouldn't auto vote. I.e. it can give it a stand in rating of 5 but as soon as someone votes on it, it should change to whatever that first person's vote rating is. Otherwise those with higher access can never get a perfect 10 rating.
The odds of a "power user" access user making a poor judgement in ratings is about the same as an admin or moderator.
My personal beef with the ratings which I'm askinmg to be changed is that those with Journeyman access or higher get their works posted automatically with a "5" rating with it counting as a vote. That is unfair. It shouldn't auto vote. I.e. it can give it a stand in rating of 5 but as soon as someone votes on it, it should change to whatever that first person's vote rating is. Otherwise those with higher access can never get a perfect 10 rating.
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Reply #1 Sunday, August 5, 2001 3:54 PM
i want to see how high that count will go