Close button visibility
Saturday, September 18, 2004 by smoke-tetsu | Discussion: Skinning
I was told that the close button has lots of options for visibility but I can't find those options in skinstudio specifically, "show if there is a close button" or "show if there is NOT a close button". So I was wondering if someone could help me out. What are the visibility settings to do those things so I can edit them manually into the uis file?
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smoke-tetsu
Reply #22 Sunday, September 19, 2004 10:52 PM
Reply #22 Sunday, September 19, 2004 10:52 PM
I would have actually been like well no one knows the answer and accepted it at that. Actually I was satisfied with Greenreapers answer on the newsgroup as he knew that the function is not in there yet. Anyway, apology accepted. 
[Message Edited]
[Message Edited]
CerebroJD
Reply #23 Sunday, September 19, 2004 11:50 PM
Reply #23 Sunday, September 19, 2004 11:50 PM
I am still completely unclear as to what the heck you're trying to do. There is NOT a window that doesnt have a close button!
I.R. Brainiac
Reply #24 Monday, September 20, 2004 12:08 AM
Reply #24 Monday, September 20, 2004 12:08 AM
Your whole attitude was if you dont have the EXACT answer to my question...dont try to help,dont try to suggest alternatives...dont talk to me...(which could have possibly led to an answer.)
Again...why are we trying to 'help' you?
As far as your skins being my bag,how would you know...you just said we would not be using it.
Again...why are we trying to 'help' you?
As far as your skins being my bag,how would you know...you just said we would not be using it.
smoke-tetsu
Reply #25 Monday, September 20, 2004 12:33 AM
Reply #25 Monday, September 20, 2004 12:33 AM
Yes there is CerebroJD and I showed you an example. If you are STILL unclear then there is no clearing things up for you, sorry.
Here's the image again (top classic, middle visual styles, bottom WB) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/Adia06/closebuttonstuff.jpg
I.R. I only asked the question because I *tried* the alternatives (which don't work the way I want them to especially just leaving it as it is (always visible)) like I said and I came here as a last resort to find out the specific visibility number that you have to put into the UIS file to get the setting which I was looking for but I have since then found out that it's not in WB yet. This was a specific question which required specific information. I reserve questions for after I've tried the alternatives. And I don't even ask very many questions this is the only question in a long while that I have asked.
And for the last thing since you don't like this function then there most likely other features in my skins that you probably won't like. But that's ok I don't need everyone to use them.
Anyway this should be closed as far as I'm concerned because there is no answer to this as there are no alternatives that are satisfactory (to me) other than leaving it as it is until the function is put in.
I'm no more enlightened after all this than I was starting off to begin with. The only reason why I asked this question in the first place is because I mentioned how I'm still waiting for the function to be put into WB and frogboy said that there are many visibility functions in WB including the ones I'm looking for however I could not for the life of me find them in skinstudio so I was hoping that someone here would at least know the visibility number so I can manually put it into the UIS file. But now I'm sorry I even brought it up.
BTW, I.R. you do have a good question and that is "why are we trying to help you", you obviously don't know the answer (and how could you the function is not in WB yet). So WHY are you trying to "help"?
So in closing I'm sorry that I started this thread, asked this question or came here for help.
[Message Edited]
Here's the image again (top classic, middle visual styles, bottom WB) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/Adia06/closebuttonstuff.jpg
I.R. I only asked the question because I *tried* the alternatives (which don't work the way I want them to especially just leaving it as it is (always visible)) like I said and I came here as a last resort to find out the specific visibility number that you have to put into the UIS file to get the setting which I was looking for but I have since then found out that it's not in WB yet. This was a specific question which required specific information. I reserve questions for after I've tried the alternatives. And I don't even ask very many questions this is the only question in a long while that I have asked.
And for the last thing since you don't like this function then there most likely other features in my skins that you probably won't like. But that's ok I don't need everyone to use them.
Anyway this should be closed as far as I'm concerned because there is no answer to this as there are no alternatives that are satisfactory (to me) other than leaving it as it is until the function is put in.
I'm no more enlightened after all this than I was starting off to begin with. The only reason why I asked this question in the first place is because I mentioned how I'm still waiting for the function to be put into WB and frogboy said that there are many visibility functions in WB including the ones I'm looking for however I could not for the life of me find them in skinstudio so I was hoping that someone here would at least know the visibility number so I can manually put it into the UIS file. But now I'm sorry I even brought it up.
BTW, I.R. you do have a good question and that is "why are we trying to help you", you obviously don't know the answer (and how could you the function is not in WB yet). So WHY are you trying to "help"?
So in closing I'm sorry that I started this thread, asked this question or came here for help.
[Message Edited]
CerebroJD
Reply #26 Monday, September 20, 2004 1:30 AM
Reply #26 Monday, September 20, 2004 1:30 AM
Try just making the "Disabled" image state invisible (using magic pink) for the close button.
[Message Edited]
[Message Edited]
smoke-tetsu
Reply #27 Monday, September 20, 2004 1:37 AM
Reply #27 Monday, September 20, 2004 1:37 AM
No, in the image there is normal, pressed, disabled\mousover and the same for out of focus and I don't want to get rid of the mousover image or the out of focus image. And since WB forces a window to have a close button even if it doesn't have one no disabled state shows up anywya. Face it, there are no alternatives that work the way I want it to.
[Message Edited]
[Message Edited]
SelfExiled
Reply #28 Monday, September 20, 2004 2:33 AM
Reply #28 Monday, September 20, 2004 2:33 AM
Are you trying to create a close button disabled image? Meaning that the image will show if there is no closed button?
The problem may be that windowblinds will draw a normal close button whether it works or not. Are you saying that on some windows, windowblinds will not draw a close button? Because, if I remember correctly when I was playing "Quake 3" in window mode, windowblinds did draw a close button but it didn't work. I wouldn't close the window with that button while playing Quake 3. But, it was there. Can you show an example of a missing close button where you want one, or where you feel that there should be one? Because, the option to "show if window is active" or "show if window is inactive" should work on all windows for the close button.
It does seems true that there is no option to "show if there is NO close button". But, I assume this is because all windows have a close button.
The problem may be that windowblinds will draw a normal close button whether it works or not. Are you saying that on some windows, windowblinds will not draw a close button? Because, if I remember correctly when I was playing "Quake 3" in window mode, windowblinds did draw a close button but it didn't work. I wouldn't close the window with that button while playing Quake 3. But, it was there. Can you show an example of a missing close button where you want one, or where you feel that there should be one? Because, the option to "show if window is active" or "show if window is inactive" should work on all windows for the close button.
It does seems true that there is no option to "show if there is NO close button". But, I assume this is because all windows have a close button.
SelfExiled
Reply #29 Monday, September 20, 2004 2:49 AM
Reply #29 Monday, September 20, 2004 2:49 AM
I also looked at your preview in thread#25. I assume that the top window was the classic view and the second one was XP view, and the third one was a StyleXP visual style. If I am correct, then the problem may lie in the operating system itself. As you can see, the classic view nor the XP view had those buttons. This is the way the operating system is set to work. If you illegally hack the shell, maybe you can get those buttons as shown in your third example. The problem is that windowblinds DOES NOT illegally hack the shell. Windowblinds works with the operating system and is much better for system stability and legal issues as well.
Windowblinds is fully endorsed by Microsoft, StyleXP is not.
I don't think that Microsoft intended customers to bypass legal windows by closing them. And windowblinds also follows legal and copyright issues. You may be stuck with hacked shells that attempt to bypass such legal windows.
Windowblinds is fully endorsed by Microsoft, StyleXP is not.
I don't think that Microsoft intended customers to bypass legal windows by closing them. And windowblinds also follows legal and copyright issues. You may be stuck with hacked shells that attempt to bypass such legal windows.
SelfExiled
Reply #30 Monday, September 20, 2004 2:59 AM
Reply #30 Monday, September 20, 2004 2:59 AM
I must also say that being hostile and rude to members who are only trying to understand what it is that you are trying to accomplish will not help you accomplish anything. How can anyone help you if they don't understand what you are trying to do? And then, why would anyone want to help you if you are going to be rude to them?
CerebroJD
Reply #31 Monday, September 20, 2004 8:30 AM
Reply #31 Monday, September 20, 2004 8:30 AM
Chas...he's trying to set up a graphic to overlay the close button when the Close button is not visible. "Show if window DOES NOT have a close button" type of thing. Its not possible to do, I dont think.
smoke-tetsu
Reply #32 Monday, September 20, 2004 11:18 AM
Reply #32 Monday, September 20, 2004 11:18 AM
ChasUGC you've got things backwards. No the third window in the shot in message #25 wasn't styleXP. I don't use StyleXP or MS Styles (same thing) StyleXP is just a in memory uxtheme hacker isntead of on disk. It is Windowblinds, as you can see the buttons are on the left which is impossible on MS Styles\StyleXP. Which in that case it seems that WB is the one not going the legal route by forcing those types of windows to have close buttons. However when you click close on that type of window it assumes dismissing that window like a "later" push button so it's not hacking the program you still get the screen later.
Games like quake3 are another good example as in the shot I put in previous to the one you saw had Doom which had the close button showing a disabled state (on OSX no less). The close button on Quake 3 for example would show disable image would not do anything just as it did before but it would show a different image to tell you that it is disabled so it would be there as to not force the window to have a close button but be an anchor for the other 2 unless the other 2 aren't there which then it would show none.
So with the function I was looking for the window would not be forced to have a close button if it doesn't have one or a window that the close button doesn't work on would show the appropriate state for it. So I would have a close button (show if there is a close button) A disabled one (show if there is not a close button) a min (show if there is a min), a min disabled (show if there is no min show if there is either a min or max) a max (show if there is a max), max disabled (show if there is no max button show if there is a min or max). And that would take care of pretty much everything. I tried putting close to show only if there is a min or max but it removed it from all windows that don't have a min or max which is not what I want to do as there are some that don't have min or max but do indeed have a close button.
Not only where they not understanding but I do not like when I ask a question and someone says things like, "Doesn't always visible work?" (that's what it already is set to and I want to do something NEW and something everything else can do), "When is there NOT a close button?" (this is not helping and I didn't commit to memory all the windows that don't have one but I felt I didn't need to in order for someone to give me either the info for the UIS or an answer that it's not in WB yet).
I tried showing them a screenshot that shows the effect I'm going for and an explanation but they failed to see the effect or understand. This is just all a big misunderstanding and I don't see it clearing up. Maybe I reacted a little harshly but I felt my intelligence insulted and others being rude to me. Things like "Why doesn't always visible work?" Is rude when I want specific information which is why I said please only reply to this if you know the specific answer that I'm looking for. Things like the above only derail the topic which has happened. Also if you assume hostility in this message for example then you are misreading as it is easy to do here on the net because we can't hear tone of voice, see body language, etc.
Why don't we just end this thread as I know now that the function is not in WB yet so I just have to wait some more? I have my answer, what more can anyone ask for?
[Message Edited]
Games like quake3 are another good example as in the shot I put in previous to the one you saw had Doom which had the close button showing a disabled state (on OSX no less). The close button on Quake 3 for example would show disable image would not do anything just as it did before but it would show a different image to tell you that it is disabled so it would be there as to not force the window to have a close button but be an anchor for the other 2 unless the other 2 aren't there which then it would show none.
So with the function I was looking for the window would not be forced to have a close button if it doesn't have one or a window that the close button doesn't work on would show the appropriate state for it. So I would have a close button (show if there is a close button) A disabled one (show if there is not a close button) a min (show if there is a min), a min disabled (show if there is no min show if there is either a min or max) a max (show if there is a max), max disabled (show if there is no max button show if there is a min or max). And that would take care of pretty much everything. I tried putting close to show only if there is a min or max but it removed it from all windows that don't have a min or max which is not what I want to do as there are some that don't have min or max but do indeed have a close button.
Not only where they not understanding but I do not like when I ask a question and someone says things like, "Doesn't always visible work?" (that's what it already is set to and I want to do something NEW and something everything else can do), "When is there NOT a close button?" (this is not helping and I didn't commit to memory all the windows that don't have one but I felt I didn't need to in order for someone to give me either the info for the UIS or an answer that it's not in WB yet).
I tried showing them a screenshot that shows the effect I'm going for and an explanation but they failed to see the effect or understand. This is just all a big misunderstanding and I don't see it clearing up. Maybe I reacted a little harshly but I felt my intelligence insulted and others being rude to me. Things like "Why doesn't always visible work?" Is rude when I want specific information which is why I said please only reply to this if you know the specific answer that I'm looking for. Things like the above only derail the topic which has happened. Also if you assume hostility in this message for example then you are misreading as it is easy to do here on the net because we can't hear tone of voice, see body language, etc.
Why don't we just end this thread as I know now that the function is not in WB yet so I just have to wait some more? I have my answer, what more can anyone ask for?
[Message Edited]
SelfExiled
Reply #33 Monday, September 20, 2004 12:57 PM
Reply #33 Monday, September 20, 2004 12:57 PM
Now, I'm a little confused about what you want too. Are you saying that you don't want those buttons there now? Or are you saying that the buttons in link#25 are not suppose to be there?
What is rude in that question? There is absolutely nothing rude in that question. I think what you are failing to understand is that this is a skinning community. People here gain knowledge from working with the program. According to your statements you are trying to do something new. I think on the whole of it, no one is quite clear now on that issue but you. So, people with experience might say, "Why didn't this work", because they are surprised(from their experience) that it didn't work. And, you would say, "it didn't work because...". Then the person might say, "Oh, I see what you are trying to do..." They may even be able to give you a solution. It is through discussion in this manner where someone with experience might be able to help you, by fully understanding what it is you are trying to accomplish. But instead, you jumped on them, and told them to basically shut the hell up. Now, that was rude, and not conducive to helping you in your creative endeavor. All you did was alienate yourself from some really experienced people and others with ideas that might have helped you to develop your new idea. But, I am not here to give a manners lesson or lessons on etiquette. But, I must say that these people are fellow artists and members, who are generally kind and helpful people and they don't deserve to be abused either.
Maybe you didn't actually intend to be rude. The problem may have been a little lack of patience. If this is true, and I believe it is, then you must know that working with computers sometimes takes a lot of patience. Just like discussing things with people who are trying to understand what you are trying to do.
Now, I understood that you wanted a button to show on your close button that was not showing in WB but it was showing in another skinning program. Now, it seems you are saying that you don't want a button to show and it is showing. Which is it?
There are two other visibilities that might help you. Have you tried "show if window is MDI child" Then, maybe you could just plaster a large button to cover the other buttons that matches the actually frame background. Or maybe the visibility of "show if there is NO window text" Since, neither of those windows had windowed text(meaning window text, not dialog text) maybe that would work.
But, if you are specifically having this problem because you are looking for a visibility that doesn't exist, then the only way around it is to be creative. Lots of new creative ideas have been accomplished here, but not by your approach. People may even joke around here, but it isn't anything personal against you. This is a fun hobby and no one helping here on these messageboards are getting paid, not even the administrators. So, please try to relax and make yourself some new friends. And maybe develop some new creative ideas to share with the skinning world.
| Things like "Why doesn't always visible work?" Is rude |
What is rude in that question? There is absolutely nothing rude in that question. I think what you are failing to understand is that this is a skinning community. People here gain knowledge from working with the program. According to your statements you are trying to do something new. I think on the whole of it, no one is quite clear now on that issue but you. So, people with experience might say, "Why didn't this work", because they are surprised(from their experience) that it didn't work. And, you would say, "it didn't work because...". Then the person might say, "Oh, I see what you are trying to do..." They may even be able to give you a solution. It is through discussion in this manner where someone with experience might be able to help you, by fully understanding what it is you are trying to accomplish. But instead, you jumped on them, and told them to basically shut the hell up. Now, that was rude, and not conducive to helping you in your creative endeavor. All you did was alienate yourself from some really experienced people and others with ideas that might have helped you to develop your new idea. But, I am not here to give a manners lesson or lessons on etiquette. But, I must say that these people are fellow artists and members, who are generally kind and helpful people and they don't deserve to be abused either.
Maybe you didn't actually intend to be rude. The problem may have been a little lack of patience. If this is true, and I believe it is, then you must know that working with computers sometimes takes a lot of patience. Just like discussing things with people who are trying to understand what you are trying to do.
Now, I understood that you wanted a button to show on your close button that was not showing in WB but it was showing in another skinning program. Now, it seems you are saying that you don't want a button to show and it is showing. Which is it?
There are two other visibilities that might help you. Have you tried "show if window is MDI child" Then, maybe you could just plaster a large button to cover the other buttons that matches the actually frame background. Or maybe the visibility of "show if there is NO window text" Since, neither of those windows had windowed text(meaning window text, not dialog text) maybe that would work.
But, if you are specifically having this problem because you are looking for a visibility that doesn't exist, then the only way around it is to be creative. Lots of new creative ideas have been accomplished here, but not by your approach. People may even joke around here, but it isn't anything personal against you. This is a fun hobby and no one helping here on these messageboards are getting paid, not even the administrators. So, please try to relax and make yourself some new friends. And maybe develop some new creative ideas to share with the skinning world.
CerebroJD
Reply #34 Monday, September 20, 2004 1:03 PM
Reply #34 Monday, September 20, 2004 1:03 PM
He wants his close button to NOT be visible when windows says it shouldnt be visible. However, there is not a setting for this in SkinStudio.
smoke-tetsu
Reply #35 Monday, September 20, 2004 1:55 PM
Reply #35 Monday, September 20, 2004 1:55 PM
Chas, I never said that I wanted it to show the close button when there is no close button. That's already what it does. I want it to show a close button if there is one, show a disabled one if there is a disabled one such as in Quake 3, or no button if the window doesn't have buttons such as in the screenshot I showed. Didn't work is probably not the right term to say it's more like, not doing the effect I'm going for. But it seems that no matter how much I explain that hardly anyone in this thread had fully grasped what I mentioned above in this post. I already said there are no fake ways to do what I want to do without trading off other things which I don't want to trade off so I was trying to find out the REAL way which I might have misunderstood Frogboy and thought he said was in there when he was being a bit vague.
Speaking of being alienated I have been alienated as well because what I was looking for was not to be told to leave it the way it is (why doesn't always visible work), or fake ways of doing it (which I already tried). I have a lot of experience with WB (4+ years) and I was because of Frogboy thinking that this was a undocumented feature.
And yes I am creative but I don't implement things in a way that doesn't satisfy me which is pretty much all other fake ways of trying to do this. You misunderstood when you thought I said I wanted a button to show on my close button that was not showing in WB but it was showing in another skinning program because it's the other way around. It's not showing on the other program so I don't want it to show on mine either. However I only want it to be removed for that special case. I still want it to show on windows that have a close button but no min or max.
About this:
"There are two other visibilities that might help you. Have you tried "show if window is MDI child" Then, maybe you could just plaster a large button to cover the other buttons that matches the actually frame background. Or maybe the visibility of "show if there is NO window text" Since, neither of those windows had windowed text(meaning window text, not dialog text) maybe that would work."
Both instances of windows that this would apply to aren't MDI windows. And they do have window text look again at the screenshot in #25, it says "Palacechat" in the titlebar.
Believe me when I say I consider all fake ways of doing it. But in this case there is no satisfactor fake way of doing it. All I need are visibility options for the close button the same way the min or max have them.
When someone says a thing such as, "Why doesn't always visible work?" it doesn't sound like they are trying to really understand. The same thing could be said about any of the titlebar buttons. And when someone keeps on saying there are no windows that don't have close buttons (or disabled ones) when I know there are it's frustrating. That type of thing really tests my patience because that's not what I'm looking for. If the person knew the setting if it indeed existed then they would not ask the above question nor would they tell me there are no windows that don't have close buttons or disabled ones.
Like I said, I only asked because Frogboy said there are many visibility settings including for the close button so I was wanting to know the specific setting, no more.. no less.
[Message Edited]
Speaking of being alienated I have been alienated as well because what I was looking for was not to be told to leave it the way it is (why doesn't always visible work), or fake ways of doing it (which I already tried). I have a lot of experience with WB (4+ years) and I was because of Frogboy thinking that this was a undocumented feature.
And yes I am creative but I don't implement things in a way that doesn't satisfy me which is pretty much all other fake ways of trying to do this. You misunderstood when you thought I said I wanted a button to show on my close button that was not showing in WB but it was showing in another skinning program because it's the other way around. It's not showing on the other program so I don't want it to show on mine either. However I only want it to be removed for that special case. I still want it to show on windows that have a close button but no min or max.
About this:
"There are two other visibilities that might help you. Have you tried "show if window is MDI child" Then, maybe you could just plaster a large button to cover the other buttons that matches the actually frame background. Or maybe the visibility of "show if there is NO window text" Since, neither of those windows had windowed text(meaning window text, not dialog text) maybe that would work."
Both instances of windows that this would apply to aren't MDI windows. And they do have window text look again at the screenshot in #25, it says "Palacechat" in the titlebar.
Believe me when I say I consider all fake ways of doing it. But in this case there is no satisfactor fake way of doing it. All I need are visibility options for the close button the same way the min or max have them.
When someone says a thing such as, "Why doesn't always visible work?" it doesn't sound like they are trying to really understand. The same thing could be said about any of the titlebar buttons. And when someone keeps on saying there are no windows that don't have close buttons (or disabled ones) when I know there are it's frustrating. That type of thing really tests my patience because that's not what I'm looking for. If the person knew the setting if it indeed existed then they would not ask the above question nor would they tell me there are no windows that don't have close buttons or disabled ones.
Like I said, I only asked because Frogboy said there are many visibility settings including for the close button so I was wanting to know the specific setting, no more.. no less.
[Message Edited]
SelfExiled
Reply #36 Monday, September 20, 2004 2:38 PM
Finally, we got the definitive answer about exactly what you are trying to do. See, all it took was a little patience.
Don't take this all too serious my friend. It is meant to be fun. You're right, there is no disabled close button, like the other disabled function buttons. I guess the program doesn't perfectly emulate the windows style in that regard. Windowblinds doesn't perfectly emulate the Windows style but, it is not meant to do so. Windows doesn't have a roll up button, transparent windows, winamp buttons and a ton more customizing options. I have a lot of creative ideas too. Sometimes you just have to move on, and say, "well, I can't to that yet" But, I ralize that this is a great program and there is so much that I can do, that I can't do with the regular windows style. In fact, to me, that style is downright boring.
Reply #36 Monday, September 20, 2004 2:38 PM
| I want it to show a close button if there is one, show a disabled one if there is a disabled one such as in Quake 3, or no button if the window doesn't have buttons such as in the screenshot I showed. |
Finally, we got the definitive answer about exactly what you are trying to do. See, all it took was a little patience.
Don't take this all too serious my friend. It is meant to be fun. You're right, there is no disabled close button, like the other disabled function buttons. I guess the program doesn't perfectly emulate the windows style in that regard. Windowblinds doesn't perfectly emulate the Windows style but, it is not meant to do so. Windows doesn't have a roll up button, transparent windows, winamp buttons and a ton more customizing options. I have a lot of creative ideas too. Sometimes you just have to move on, and say, "well, I can't to that yet" But, I ralize that this is a great program and there is so much that I can do, that I can't do with the regular windows style. In fact, to me, that style is downright boring.
CerebroJD
Reply #37 Monday, September 20, 2004 4:21 PM
Reply #37 Monday, September 20, 2004 4:21 PM
Maybe no-one ever thought that there was windows without a close button. Perhaps its a feature that might be included in the next builds.
smoke-tetsu
Reply #38 Tuesday, September 21, 2004 12:33 PM
Reply #38 Tuesday, September 21, 2004 12:33 PM
Only thing is is that it's a feature other systems have such as MacOSX so it's not just windows style to do it. Hopefully someday WB will have it too. I was really hoping that since Frogboy said there are many visibility settings for the titlebar buttons that he meant that it was put in. But I know now that I have to wait longer. Hopefully not too much longer. No offense or anything but I don't think that lacking a feature should be considered a feature, heh
BTW, I'm not upset or anything I'm just relieved at this point that everyone understands.
[Message Edited]
No offense or anything but I don't think that lacking a feature should be considered a feature, hehBTW, I'm not upset or anything I'm just relieved at this point that everyone understands.
[Message Edited]
MarkMcQ
Reply #39 Tuesday, September 21, 2004 3:23 PM
Reply #39 Tuesday, September 21, 2004 3:23 PM
If you make the suggestion on the WB newsgroups, you might be able to have that implimented in the next build.
smoke-tetsu
Reply #40 Tuesday, September 21, 2004 11:36 PM
Reply #40 Tuesday, September 21, 2004 11:36 PM
I have before including recently when asking about it but I'm not sure if it has gone noticed by the right people or what.
[Message Edited]
[Message Edited]
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Reply #21 Sunday, September 19, 2004 10:49 PM