Things I look for in a WB Skin.
Thursday, August 5, 2004 by Lotherius | Discussion: Skinning
I was told by an anonymous pigeon that I rate too lowly on some WB skins. With that in mind, I've tried to rate a skin more on its inherent merits rather than only whether I like it or not. So I've created a system to rate a skin. There are certain things I believe a skin must have to be useful, and lacking them means it is less than perfect.
1: Needs to be original. Recolored versions of Luna, Longhorn, etc are not original. If it's a MAC clone skin, it needs something that sets it apart from the crowd of other MAC clone skins (this includes Aqua, Tiger, et alius).
2: Needs to be complete. Menus and dialogues that look unfinished, or use ordinary windows objects show me that the skinner didn't care to take the time to finish his skin. A skin should cover all the bases, and be a complete makover. Missing parts are not acceptable.
3: Needs to be relatively high contrast. This may be personal opinion, or maybe not. Fact is, some very beautiful skins are rubbish as far as actual usability is concerned, because once you get them on the screen, you can't read certain items such as: Titlebars, Menu Items, Buttons and Tabs. This is especially true for the darker coloured skins. Dark should not mean hard to read.
4: Window controls should always be in the preview screenshot, as should the start menu. These are the most important things (even though personally I never see the start menu, as I use OD+). If these are not in the preview, then it is difficult to give a fair analysis without actually downloading and installing the skin, which is almost a form of blackmail on the author's part to get more downloads. Therefore, if you don't include these things in your screenshot, I have no choice but to rate lowly.
5: If the skin requires a specific wallpaper to look good, that wallpaper should be included with the skin if at all possible (ie, you own the wallpaper or have permission to distribute it). Having to make a seperate download artificially inflates the author's download count.
6: Fonts should be clearly readable and fit within the areas given by the skin. Some fonts are too large, and run off the sides of buttons, etc. This should be avoided. Fonts that overlap parts of the window controls (including titlebar text that strays outside its box) are a no-no.
7: If you have custom "controls", they need to not have too high a premium of screenspace. Keep them small. Label them clearly enough so they can be found and clicked on. I once used a skin for a day before I realized it had winamp controls on it. Additionally, offer a substyle without the controls, or offer some configuration. Not everyone uses the same software you do. Having a beautiful skin loaded down with controls for a program you don't use is rather pointless.
8: Keep down the clutter. I'm not saying all skins need to be simple, but too much noise can reduce the overall effect. Find a theme, and stick with it.
9: If I see "magic pink" showing anywhere, you lose several points right there.
10: This one is subjective. The graphics used for the various objects in the skin need to be cleanly drawn or rendered. Unexpected breaks, things that don't line up, fuzziness where fuzziness isn't expected, buttons that don't "sit naturally" on their background, all these things are unattractive and can ruin an otherwise beautiful skin.
So, mostly these are the things I'm looking at on skins. If a skin does well on all categories, it'll get a 9 or a 10. If it breaks the rules of all the categories, I'm not afraid to give it a 1.
1: Needs to be original. Recolored versions of Luna, Longhorn, etc are not original. If it's a MAC clone skin, it needs something that sets it apart from the crowd of other MAC clone skins (this includes Aqua, Tiger, et alius).
2: Needs to be complete. Menus and dialogues that look unfinished, or use ordinary windows objects show me that the skinner didn't care to take the time to finish his skin. A skin should cover all the bases, and be a complete makover. Missing parts are not acceptable.
3: Needs to be relatively high contrast. This may be personal opinion, or maybe not. Fact is, some very beautiful skins are rubbish as far as actual usability is concerned, because once you get them on the screen, you can't read certain items such as: Titlebars, Menu Items, Buttons and Tabs. This is especially true for the darker coloured skins. Dark should not mean hard to read.
4: Window controls should always be in the preview screenshot, as should the start menu. These are the most important things (even though personally I never see the start menu, as I use OD+). If these are not in the preview, then it is difficult to give a fair analysis without actually downloading and installing the skin, which is almost a form of blackmail on the author's part to get more downloads. Therefore, if you don't include these things in your screenshot, I have no choice but to rate lowly.
5: If the skin requires a specific wallpaper to look good, that wallpaper should be included with the skin if at all possible (ie, you own the wallpaper or have permission to distribute it). Having to make a seperate download artificially inflates the author's download count.
6: Fonts should be clearly readable and fit within the areas given by the skin. Some fonts are too large, and run off the sides of buttons, etc. This should be avoided. Fonts that overlap parts of the window controls (including titlebar text that strays outside its box) are a no-no.
7: If you have custom "controls", they need to not have too high a premium of screenspace. Keep them small. Label them clearly enough so they can be found and clicked on. I once used a skin for a day before I realized it had winamp controls on it. Additionally, offer a substyle without the controls, or offer some configuration. Not everyone uses the same software you do. Having a beautiful skin loaded down with controls for a program you don't use is rather pointless.
8: Keep down the clutter. I'm not saying all skins need to be simple, but too much noise can reduce the overall effect. Find a theme, and stick with it.
9: If I see "magic pink" showing anywhere, you lose several points right there.
10: This one is subjective. The graphics used for the various objects in the skin need to be cleanly drawn or rendered. Unexpected breaks, things that don't line up, fuzziness where fuzziness isn't expected, buttons that don't "sit naturally" on their background, all these things are unattractive and can ruin an otherwise beautiful skin.
So, mostly these are the things I'm looking at on skins. If a skin does well on all categories, it'll get a 9 or a 10. If it breaks the rules of all the categories, I'm not afraid to give it a 1.
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Lotherius
Reply #23 Monday, August 16, 2004 11:20 PM
Reply #23 Monday, August 16, 2004 11:20 PM
I see there were some complaints that I hadn't responded to this thread. The primary reason is that I did not wish this to all turn into a big debate - had my say, and left it at that...
However... I will go ahead and give a few comments:
DL'ing of all skins rated: If a skin's preview looks like it was drawn by a 3rd grader, why should I even want to download such garbage? Should garbage skins never be rated as such then, because you can tell from the preview they are garbage? Admittedly, there are things a preview doesn't show, but it should give some clue about what the skin is like before a person downloads it. I do download many skins, but as I said - if it's apparent it is garbage, then why should it have to be downloaded at all?
On the flip side, I have seen many very beautiful skins that are worthy of a high rating - but they do not fit the theme of my computer, or my personal tests. Should I also not rate these?
Next, I will concede the wallpaper issue. I forget that filesize is a big deal at times
... Nor do I use the walls in many skins either.
Dark Skins: Yes, I realize they are challenging. However, it doesn't mean that unusable ones should be any more acceptable - just more rare, apparently. A good dark skin will, as a previous poster said, be very popular and highly rated *because* it is challenging.
Clutter: Nope, never said all skins had to be minimalistic. In fact, I did specifically say that I WASN'T saying that. A gothic cathedral is not minimalistic architecturally, but nor should it mix dozens of different architectural styles. What I was saying is that sometimes skinners feel they gotta throw a little of everything in - whether it belongs there or not. They need to make sure when they do that, that it actually belongs there. Aesthetics are important - simply adding more gadgets and graphics does not a better skin make, and I don't think anyone here would argue that it does. Also, if your skin includes things like media player controls - how about offering a version that is a regular skin also - without the media player? I've seen many good skins ruined by having gadgets hanging on them I don't need. I wouldn't rate a skin down simply for having things I don't need, but I won't use it either. I'm sure some people like those things, so give us a choice.
However... I will go ahead and give a few comments:
DL'ing of all skins rated: If a skin's preview looks like it was drawn by a 3rd grader, why should I even want to download such garbage? Should garbage skins never be rated as such then, because you can tell from the preview they are garbage? Admittedly, there are things a preview doesn't show, but it should give some clue about what the skin is like before a person downloads it. I do download many skins, but as I said - if it's apparent it is garbage, then why should it have to be downloaded at all?
On the flip side, I have seen many very beautiful skins that are worthy of a high rating - but they do not fit the theme of my computer, or my personal tests. Should I also not rate these?
Next, I will concede the wallpaper issue. I forget that filesize is a big deal at times
... Nor do I use the walls in many skins either.Dark Skins: Yes, I realize they are challenging. However, it doesn't mean that unusable ones should be any more acceptable - just more rare, apparently. A good dark skin will, as a previous poster said, be very popular and highly rated *because* it is challenging.
Clutter: Nope, never said all skins had to be minimalistic. In fact, I did specifically say that I WASN'T saying that. A gothic cathedral is not minimalistic architecturally, but nor should it mix dozens of different architectural styles. What I was saying is that sometimes skinners feel they gotta throw a little of everything in - whether it belongs there or not. They need to make sure when they do that, that it actually belongs there. Aesthetics are important - simply adding more gadgets and graphics does not a better skin make, and I don't think anyone here would argue that it does. Also, if your skin includes things like media player controls - how about offering a version that is a regular skin also - without the media player? I've seen many good skins ruined by having gadgets hanging on them I don't need. I wouldn't rate a skin down simply for having things I don't need, but I won't use it either. I'm sure some people like those things, so give us a choice.
SelfExiled
Reply #24 Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:12 AM
I have to comment on this one. There are 3043 windowblind skins in the library. Is this not enough choice? If you want a skin to fit your personal preferences, the best thing you can do to achieve that is to make your own. This is what I did, and this is what most skinners do when they make a skin.
If you don't want to use it, and if it doesn't fit your personal taste, why do you feel the need to rate everything? Unless, one considers themselves the ultimate and best windowblind/wallpaper critic.
Reply #24 Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:12 AM
| so give us a choice. |
I have to comment on this one. There are 3043 windowblind skins in the library. Is this not enough choice? If you want a skin to fit your personal preferences, the best thing you can do to achieve that is to make your own. This is what I did, and this is what most skinners do when they make a skin.
| On the flip side, I have seen many very beautiful skins that are worthy of a high rating - but they do not fit the theme of my computer, or my personal tests. Should I also not rate these? |
If you don't want to use it, and if it doesn't fit your personal taste, why do you feel the need to rate everything? Unless, one considers themselves the ultimate and best windowblind/wallpaper critic.
SelfExiled
Reply #25 Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:26 AM
Reply #25 Tuesday, August 17, 2004 2:26 AM
What I suggest, if your intent is to help the quality of the skins here, is to make constructive suggestions when you see errors and/or poor skin quality. This helps the artist improve. But, I don't personally feel the need to rate skins that I don't intend to use. One mans garbage is another mans treasure. 
(Example: SkinX has start panel margins that are improperly set. The margins seem to work better and improve skin quality if they are set X.
SkinX has a vertical tray reflection that is improperly located.
These types of suggestions help the artist improve and helps the quality of the skins here. To go through the library and rate them all bad, doesn't help the artist or the quality of the work here. You must realize that many artists spend 50 hours or more on a skin, and they still might miss a detail or two. Why rate them poorly for the free effort to share their hard work? Again, one mans garbage is another mans treasure.
(Example: SkinX has start panel margins that are improperly set. The margins seem to work better and improve skin quality if they are set X.
SkinX has a vertical tray reflection that is improperly located.
These types of suggestions help the artist improve and helps the quality of the skins here. To go through the library and rate them all bad, doesn't help the artist or the quality of the work here. You must realize that many artists spend 50 hours or more on a skin, and they still might miss a detail or two. Why rate them poorly for the free effort to share their hard work? Again, one mans garbage is another mans treasure.
Lotherius
Reply #26 Tuesday, August 17, 2004 10:11 AM
Reply #26 Tuesday, August 17, 2004 10:11 AM
(sorry about no direct quotes, they don't seem to work in FireFox for some reason)...
ChasUGC: I don't go through and rate everything... Typically, I rate a skin if either:
1: I have used it myself (as you all suggest)
2: I feel that it does not have the rating it deserves.
If there weren't subjective criteria to rate skins, then WC wouldn't need a system where slected site members could rate skins - a single person could run down the list of objective criteria and give a single rating that works for everybody. In reality, everybody is going to be bringing their personal opinion into a rating. Thus, a rating is merely consensus. A skin that maintains a 10 rating throughout many different people's ratings has obviously got something going for it that one which one person rates 10 and another 7 and another 8, has.
As far as going through the entire library, that would be a bit silly, because for one, a skin written in 1999 cannot compare to current skins purely because of feature limitations at the time, so they should keep the rating they got when relatively new. I typically will only rate newer skins that have few ratings to begin with.
I suppose I'll stop doing that since my efforts to contribute to the site are not appreciated by the establishment.
I will maintain however, that while a screenshot cannot show things such as animations, that when the basics are left out, I refuse to download the skin just to see what should have been in the preview (basic window controls, etc)... Very few skins leave all this stuff out, but some do. Downloads are a "vote" for a skin as much as, or more than, a rating is. So, I'm not going to download merely because the author didn't feel like showing off his work in the preview.
With this in mind however, a lot of skins are going to have only the initial rating given by the mod that approved it. That means that not very many people felt like the skin was worth downloading and rating at all, right?
Unfortunately, a single rating doesn't reflect consensus. Many sites don't publicly show the rating at all until 5 ratings have been made. Maybe WC needs something like that, so a skin doesn't get blessed or cursed by the initial mod rating. Rating won't show at all - until there's a consensus.
[Message Edited]
ChasUGC: I don't go through and rate everything... Typically, I rate a skin if either:
1: I have used it myself (as you all suggest)
2: I feel that it does not have the rating it deserves.
If there weren't subjective criteria to rate skins, then WC wouldn't need a system where slected site members could rate skins - a single person could run down the list of objective criteria and give a single rating that works for everybody. In reality, everybody is going to be bringing their personal opinion into a rating. Thus, a rating is merely consensus. A skin that maintains a 10 rating throughout many different people's ratings has obviously got something going for it that one which one person rates 10 and another 7 and another 8, has.
As far as going through the entire library, that would be a bit silly, because for one, a skin written in 1999 cannot compare to current skins purely because of feature limitations at the time, so they should keep the rating they got when relatively new. I typically will only rate newer skins that have few ratings to begin with.
I suppose I'll stop doing that since my efforts to contribute to the site are not appreciated by the establishment.
I will maintain however, that while a screenshot cannot show things such as animations, that when the basics are left out, I refuse to download the skin just to see what should have been in the preview (basic window controls, etc)... Very few skins leave all this stuff out, but some do. Downloads are a "vote" for a skin as much as, or more than, a rating is. So, I'm not going to download merely because the author didn't feel like showing off his work in the preview.
With this in mind however, a lot of skins are going to have only the initial rating given by the mod that approved it. That means that not very many people felt like the skin was worth downloading and rating at all, right?
Unfortunately, a single rating doesn't reflect consensus. Many sites don't publicly show the rating at all until 5 ratings have been made. Maybe WC needs something like that, so a skin doesn't get blessed or cursed by the initial mod rating. Rating won't show at all - until there's a consensus.
[Message Edited]
Essencay
Reply #27 Wednesday, August 18, 2004 3:46 PM
skins uploaded by journeyman and above go in with a generic "6" and no initial rating. First rating that hits them sticks. Not everyone that downloads stuff has the ability to rate skins. I think that it's important for artists in specific category's example WB artists to work together to help newer artists improve, to download and rate skins in the category you skin in. I now it's not written anywhere, but I just think when someone becomes an apprentice or above, they need to give back more to the community....I don't think that's asking too much.
Reply #27 Wednesday, August 18, 2004 3:46 PM
| a lot of skins are going to have only the initial rating given by the mod that approved it. That means that not very many people felt like the skin was worth downloading and rating at all, right? |
skins uploaded by journeyman and above go in with a generic "6" and no initial rating. First rating that hits them sticks. Not everyone that downloads stuff has the ability to rate skins. I think that it's important for artists in specific category's example WB artists to work together to help newer artists improve, to download and rate skins in the category you skin in. I now it's not written anywhere, but I just think when someone becomes an apprentice or above, they need to give back more to the community....I don't think that's asking too much.
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Reply #21 Wednesday, August 11, 2004 9:41 PM
- Care to return to my post to answere the reply's
- Try things yourself before complaining on them