Things I look for in a WB Skin.
Thursday, August 5, 2004 by Lotherius | Discussion: Skinning
I was told by an anonymous pigeon that I rate too lowly on some WB skins. With that in mind, I've tried to rate a skin more on its inherent merits rather than only whether I like it or not. So I've created a system to rate a skin. There are certain things I believe a skin must have to be useful, and lacking them means it is less than perfect.
1: Needs to be original. Recolored versions of Luna, Longhorn, etc are not original. If it's a MAC clone skin, it needs something that sets it apart from the crowd of other MAC clone skins (this includes Aqua, Tiger, et alius).
2: Needs to be complete. Menus and dialogues that look unfinished, or use ordinary windows objects show me that the skinner didn't care to take the time to finish his skin. A skin should cover all the bases, and be a complete makover. Missing parts are not acceptable.
3: Needs to be relatively high contrast. This may be personal opinion, or maybe not. Fact is, some very beautiful skins are rubbish as far as actual usability is concerned, because once you get them on the screen, you can't read certain items such as: Titlebars, Menu Items, Buttons and Tabs. This is especially true for the darker coloured skins. Dark should not mean hard to read.
4: Window controls should always be in the preview screenshot, as should the start menu. These are the most important things (even though personally I never see the start menu, as I use OD+). If these are not in the preview, then it is difficult to give a fair analysis without actually downloading and installing the skin, which is almost a form of blackmail on the author's part to get more downloads. Therefore, if you don't include these things in your screenshot, I have no choice but to rate lowly.
5: If the skin requires a specific wallpaper to look good, that wallpaper should be included with the skin if at all possible (ie, you own the wallpaper or have permission to distribute it). Having to make a seperate download artificially inflates the author's download count.
6: Fonts should be clearly readable and fit within the areas given by the skin. Some fonts are too large, and run off the sides of buttons, etc. This should be avoided. Fonts that overlap parts of the window controls (including titlebar text that strays outside its box) are a no-no.
7: If you have custom "controls", they need to not have too high a premium of screenspace. Keep them small. Label them clearly enough so they can be found and clicked on. I once used a skin for a day before I realized it had winamp controls on it. Additionally, offer a substyle without the controls, or offer some configuration. Not everyone uses the same software you do. Having a beautiful skin loaded down with controls for a program you don't use is rather pointless.
8: Keep down the clutter. I'm not saying all skins need to be simple, but too much noise can reduce the overall effect. Find a theme, and stick with it.
9: If I see "magic pink" showing anywhere, you lose several points right there.
10: This one is subjective. The graphics used for the various objects in the skin need to be cleanly drawn or rendered. Unexpected breaks, things that don't line up, fuzziness where fuzziness isn't expected, buttons that don't "sit naturally" on their background, all these things are unattractive and can ruin an otherwise beautiful skin.
So, mostly these are the things I'm looking at on skins. If a skin does well on all categories, it'll get a 9 or a 10. If it breaks the rules of all the categories, I'm not afraid to give it a 1.
1: Needs to be original. Recolored versions of Luna, Longhorn, etc are not original. If it's a MAC clone skin, it needs something that sets it apart from the crowd of other MAC clone skins (this includes Aqua, Tiger, et alius).
2: Needs to be complete. Menus and dialogues that look unfinished, or use ordinary windows objects show me that the skinner didn't care to take the time to finish his skin. A skin should cover all the bases, and be a complete makover. Missing parts are not acceptable.
3: Needs to be relatively high contrast. This may be personal opinion, or maybe not. Fact is, some very beautiful skins are rubbish as far as actual usability is concerned, because once you get them on the screen, you can't read certain items such as: Titlebars, Menu Items, Buttons and Tabs. This is especially true for the darker coloured skins. Dark should not mean hard to read.
4: Window controls should always be in the preview screenshot, as should the start menu. These are the most important things (even though personally I never see the start menu, as I use OD+). If these are not in the preview, then it is difficult to give a fair analysis without actually downloading and installing the skin, which is almost a form of blackmail on the author's part to get more downloads. Therefore, if you don't include these things in your screenshot, I have no choice but to rate lowly.
5: If the skin requires a specific wallpaper to look good, that wallpaper should be included with the skin if at all possible (ie, you own the wallpaper or have permission to distribute it). Having to make a seperate download artificially inflates the author's download count.
6: Fonts should be clearly readable and fit within the areas given by the skin. Some fonts are too large, and run off the sides of buttons, etc. This should be avoided. Fonts that overlap parts of the window controls (including titlebar text that strays outside its box) are a no-no.
7: If you have custom "controls", they need to not have too high a premium of screenspace. Keep them small. Label them clearly enough so they can be found and clicked on. I once used a skin for a day before I realized it had winamp controls on it. Additionally, offer a substyle without the controls, or offer some configuration. Not everyone uses the same software you do. Having a beautiful skin loaded down with controls for a program you don't use is rather pointless.
8: Keep down the clutter. I'm not saying all skins need to be simple, but too much noise can reduce the overall effect. Find a theme, and stick with it.
9: If I see "magic pink" showing anywhere, you lose several points right there.
10: This one is subjective. The graphics used for the various objects in the skin need to be cleanly drawn or rendered. Unexpected breaks, things that don't line up, fuzziness where fuzziness isn't expected, buttons that don't "sit naturally" on their background, all these things are unattractive and can ruin an otherwise beautiful skin.
So, mostly these are the things I'm looking at on skins. If a skin does well on all categories, it'll get a 9 or a 10. If it breaks the rules of all the categories, I'm not afraid to give it a 1.
 |
|
Page 1 of 2 | |
|
|---|
Essencay
Reply #2 Thursday, August 5, 2004 3:53 PM
Reply #2 Thursday, August 5, 2004 3:53 PM
I second Koasati opinion....if you didn't download and use it, you shouldn't be rating it.
eieio
Reply #3 Thursday, August 5, 2004 4:35 PM
Reply #3 Thursday, August 5, 2004 4:35 PM
Same here as to Koa's point.
Besides, a lot of your other criteria are going to be difficult, if not impossible, to rate without downloading and using the skin.
A screenshot alone won't give you all that information.
Besides, a lot of your other criteria are going to be difficult, if not impossible, to rate without downloading and using the skin.
A screenshot alone won't give you all that information.
I.R. Brainiac
Reply #4 Thursday, August 5, 2004 5:08 PM
Reply #4 Thursday, August 5, 2004 5:08 PM
#5...including the wall in the skin makes for a huge file size(especially if you include multiple resolutions).People who want the wall can dl it separate,shouldnt force people to dl a huge file just to get the WB(or the wall ifthat was what they were really after)
Some of your other points were quite valid tho...especially in the areas of completeness and readability.
Some of your other points were quite valid tho...especially in the areas of completeness and readability.
TYBSP
Reply #5 Thursday, August 5, 2004 5:14 PM
Reply #5 Thursday, August 5, 2004 5:14 PM
Your actually rating skins without downloading them and using them????? Wow, Thats rather......... Ummm Lame!!
There is a huge amount of work that goes into these skins that is not viewable in the screen shot. Do you rate books by their cover?
There is a huge amount of work that goes into these skins that is not viewable in the screen shot. Do you rate books by their cover?
NightTrainthedark
Reply #7 Friday, August 6, 2004 12:16 AM
Reply #7 Friday, August 6, 2004 12:16 AM
Your criteria is pretty solid. However you are very wrong to judge without using a skin. If you want to judge screenshots there is a whole library just waiting. 
You do sound like you are rating things on a little too personal of a level. Some people want the mac look alikes. Noone deserves points deducted just because they are following a specific trend. Quality is what we are rating.
Have you ever tried to make your own wb's? Perhaps you should so you could get an appreciaiton of what it is like working with the constraints with sks and xp working in harmony. Dark skins WILL have text issues. There is no way around it. System text colors have to be dark. There is no perfect way around that. If someone has gotten used to dark skins then they have gotten used to a minor text issue here and there. White skins are easy because every text color stands out. It's the dark skins that need the extra attention and a little forgiveness in usage.
Your criteria is not far from my own criteria in making a skin. However not everything is made for everybody and nothing (except what you make yourself) is made for you. To each his own.
You do sound like you are rating things on a little too personal of a level. Some people want the mac look alikes. Noone deserves points deducted just because they are following a specific trend. Quality is what we are rating.
Have you ever tried to make your own wb's? Perhaps you should so you could get an appreciaiton of what it is like working with the constraints with sks and xp working in harmony. Dark skins WILL have text issues. There is no way around it. System text colors have to be dark. There is no perfect way around that. If someone has gotten used to dark skins then they have gotten used to a minor text issue here and there. White skins are easy because every text color stands out. It's the dark skins that need the extra attention and a little forgiveness in usage.
Your criteria is not far from my own criteria in making a skin. However not everything is made for everybody and nothing (except what you make yourself) is made for you. To each his own.
SelfExiled
Reply #8 Friday, August 6, 2004 2:54 AM
here,here
But, answer me this question, how many moderators actually use a skin before they rate it?
Reply #8 Friday, August 6, 2004 2:54 AM
| ...."if you didn't download, and use it, don't rate it!". |
here,here
But, answer me this question, how many moderators actually use a skin before they rate it?
SelfExiled
Reply #9 Friday, August 6, 2004 2:56 AM
Reply #9 Friday, August 6, 2004 2:56 AM
My last skin opened with a 5 rating. No matter how many 10's I got, it never got above a 7. Most of the people who actually used my last skin came back and gave me a 10. But, the rating system is a big can of worms, and I won't discuss it further. Froggy does his best with it.
[Message Edited]
[Message Edited]
SelfExiled
Reply #10 Friday, August 6, 2004 3:53 AM
I can see you've never made a skin. Who can determine if someone is going to have a 20 letter user name. Or a 25 letter program name? It's hard to predict every possible variable with margins all over these skins, and many don't even work(menu margins).What happens if someone makes a skin in france and their language made a 6 letter word, a 15 letter word in english. This is a problem with the All Programs button for example, and it can shift the button so that it doesn't line up properly.
What if you are using 1600x1200 resolution? And the artist made the skin at 1024x768. This would make almost any skin font hard to read. Do you punish the artist because he didn't make his fonts to fit your resolution?
Then there are dark skins. Did you know that there are same fonts and colors that are used in the different places. For example, word processing letter colors are used on dialog backgrounds. So, if you like your Word processing program letters black, this is going to make a dark skin look hard to read. Or maybe you like white letters on your dialog backgrounds so that they are clearly visible. But, then you can't see the letters in your word processing program with the white background.
I actually used a dark grey on my Batman skin because I wanted the text visible on the black dialog background. But someone complained that the same dark grey was in Word. And, they wanted the text black. Batman is really dark by definition. I choose Black and gold, very similar to the movie. It is a fairly popular skin, but you can't win.
Then, I left the text black to satisfy the Word processing people on my next dark skin(over 100 hours work). Now, NightTrain2002 complained about the dialog backgrounds text being slightly hard to read. I made the background as light as possible(blue) but Thor is Blue and gold. So, in one area it was black on blue. Another fairly popular skin, it seems. But again, you can't win.
Reply #10 Friday, August 6, 2004 3:53 AM
| Fonts should be clearly readable and fit within the areas given by the skin. |
I can see you've never made a skin. Who can determine if someone is going to have a 20 letter user name. Or a 25 letter program name? It's hard to predict every possible variable with margins all over these skins, and many don't even work(menu margins).What happens if someone makes a skin in france and their language made a 6 letter word, a 15 letter word in english. This is a problem with the All Programs button for example, and it can shift the button so that it doesn't line up properly.
What if you are using 1600x1200 resolution? And the artist made the skin at 1024x768. This would make almost any skin font hard to read. Do you punish the artist because he didn't make his fonts to fit your resolution?
Then there are dark skins. Did you know that there are same fonts and colors that are used in the different places. For example, word processing letter colors are used on dialog backgrounds. So, if you like your Word processing program letters black, this is going to make a dark skin look hard to read. Or maybe you like white letters on your dialog backgrounds so that they are clearly visible. But, then you can't see the letters in your word processing program with the white background.
I actually used a dark grey on my Batman skin because I wanted the text visible on the black dialog background. But someone complained that the same dark grey was in Word. And, they wanted the text black. Batman is really dark by definition. I choose Black and gold, very similar to the movie. It is a fairly popular skin, but you can't win.
Then, I left the text black to satisfy the Word processing people on my next dark skin(over 100 hours work). Now, NightTrain2002 complained about the dialog backgrounds text being slightly hard to read. I made the background as light as possible(blue) but Thor is Blue and gold. So, in one area it was black on blue. Another fairly popular skin, it seems. But again, you can't win.
NightTrainthedark
Reply #11 Friday, August 6, 2004 6:35 AM
Reply #11 Friday, August 6, 2004 6:35 AM
There is only one thing on this planet that should show pink and they all deserve a ten. Skins showing pink deserve a 1.
voo
Reply #12 Friday, August 6, 2004 9:57 AM
Sad thing is this seems to be the trend, simple bland skins, if you make anything creative original or 3D style and they say but I find it amusing and they call you "your skins are bloated IMHO, too busy, FUGLY, the quality is terrible, Ugly, chunky, WB sucks all themes for WB is bloated" and ofcourse "its costs money! Internet is free!"
So according to the masses if you want to please them have to make thin minimalistic crap that absoloutely takes no skill to create and they will love you. (This is the part where I stick a arrow through my head)
Never skin for people, never try to please the masses as its impossible and sure as hell don't do requests.
aye, the skin may not look good in the screenshot according to him but it may have slick animation to it as he will judge from the preview.
I personally hate showing the start menu in screenshots, I just cannot stand having the same preview styles as everyone else.
As for what was said above... a fair amount of designers know dark skins have issues and is usually the reason why you never see any made or really cool looking dark designs.
As it will have issues with the likes of Mozilla, office and such since its hardcoded text. I believe this has the same issue on OS X.
[Message Edited]
Reply #12 Friday, August 6, 2004 9:57 AM
| by Sir Lotherius - 8/5/2004 12:39:29 PM 8: Keep down the clutter. I'm not saying all skins need to be simple, but too much noise can reduce the overall effect. Find a theme, and stick with it. |
Sad thing is this seems to be the trend, simple bland skins, if you make anything creative original or 3D style and they say but I find it amusing and they call you "your skins are bloated IMHO, too busy, FUGLY, the quality is terrible, Ugly, chunky, WB sucks all themes for WB is bloated" and ofcourse "its costs money! Internet is free!"
So according to the masses if you want to please them have to make thin minimalistic crap that absoloutely takes no skill to create and they will love you. (This is the part where I stick a arrow through my head)
Never skin for people, never try to please the masses as its impossible and sure as hell don't do requests.
| #3 by Skinner pictoratus - 8/5/2004 4:35:32 PM A screenshot alone won't give you all that information. |
aye, the skin may not look good in the screenshot according to him but it may have slick animation to it as he will judge from the preview.
I personally hate showing the start menu in screenshots, I just cannot stand having the same preview styles as everyone else.
As for what was said above... a fair amount of designers know dark skins have issues and is usually the reason why you never see any made or really cool looking dark designs.
As it will have issues with the likes of Mozilla, office and such since its hardcoded text. I believe this has the same issue on OS X.
[Message Edited]
Halluci
Reply #13 Friday, August 6, 2004 2:10 PM
yet when a really good dark skin comes out with nifty workarounds to those hard to read areas, those are often far more popular than those bright skins out there.
Reply #13 Friday, August 6, 2004 2:10 PM
| As for what was said above... a fair amount of designers know dark skins have issues and is usually the reason why you never see any made or really cool looking dark designs.As it will have issues with the likes of Mozilla, office and such since its hardcoded text. I believe this has the same issue on OS X. |
yet when a really good dark skin comes out with nifty workarounds to those hard to read areas, those are often far more popular than those bright skins out there.
Koasati
Reply #14 Friday, August 6, 2004 2:46 PM
[Message Edited]
Reply #14 Friday, August 6, 2004 2:46 PM
| But, answer me this question, how many moderators actually use a skin before they rate it? |
I honestly don't know, (most I would think, if not all) but I can assure you that one of us doesn't rate anything he hasn't tested.
| My last skin opened with a 5 rating. No matter how many 10's I got, it never got above a 7. Most of the people who actually used my last skin came back and gave me a 10. |
Actually that is incorrect, you received more ratings that are less than 10. (of course there's no way to know how many people rating actually used it)
[Message Edited]
SelfExiled
Reply #15 Friday, August 6, 2004 4:06 PM
What did I say that was incorrect? Maybe you read it wrong. Actually, I know for a fact that the admin who posted my skin with a 5 rating did not use it. I asked an admin to look at it when I submitted it. Within less than one minute, he had posted it. He even said that he did not have the means to test it. The reason I did it this way is that my last skin sat in the queue for a week and never even made it to the new submissions list when it was finally posted. When it was finally posted it was a week old. I didn't want this to happen with a skin that I spent more than 100 hours working on.
But, its okay. The rating system is the way it is and that's it. No sense in crying about it. If you are someone who speaks out, you are likely to find people who want to step on you. It comes with the territory, I guess. So, mostly my skins suffer in one way or another.
If you do good work, someone is going to rag on your work for no reason and just say terrible things without any reason. It's really funny when they have nothing to say except, "terrible".
Sometimes, I wish I were less vocal. But, I like participating, and I like helping people and communicating with people. I like joking around and having fun too. If you can't have fun, what's the point? I know I'm sort of "hanging myself" and destroying my work even talking here. But, oh well.
Reply #15 Friday, August 6, 2004 4:06 PM
| Actually that is incorrect |
What did I say that was incorrect? Maybe you read it wrong. Actually, I know for a fact that the admin who posted my skin with a 5 rating did not use it. I asked an admin to look at it when I submitted it. Within less than one minute, he had posted it. He even said that he did not have the means to test it. The reason I did it this way is that my last skin sat in the queue for a week and never even made it to the new submissions list when it was finally posted. When it was finally posted it was a week old. I didn't want this to happen with a skin that I spent more than 100 hours working on.
But, its okay. The rating system is the way it is and that's it. No sense in crying about it. If you are someone who speaks out, you are likely to find people who want to step on you. It comes with the territory, I guess. So, mostly my skins suffer in one way or another.
If you do good work, someone is going to rag on your work for no reason and just say terrible things without any reason. It's really funny when they have nothing to say except, "terrible".
Sometimes, I wish I were less vocal. But, I like participating, and I like helping people and communicating with people. I like joking around and having fun too. If you can't have fun, what's the point? I know I'm sort of "hanging myself" and destroying my work even talking here. But, oh well.
I.R. Brainiac
Reply #16 Friday, August 6, 2004 9:37 PM
Reply #16 Friday, August 6, 2004 9:37 PM
I can kinda see your point Chas....but admins see so many skins that I think they get a bit jaded at times,I know I would.Fathom started with a 5,it crawled to a 6.BUT,it is now #138 alltime at wincustomise.Not bad for a skin that started at a 5.Point is dl's tell a better story than ratings.
Koasati
Reply #18 Saturday, August 7, 2004 4:32 PM
Reply #18 Saturday, August 7, 2004 4:32 PM
Chas.... I'm the Mod that approved your skin, and gave you that rating. Not the Mod you ask to review it. (I'm really confused by the statement that he had no means to test it. ) I've sent you an email to explain why I gave you that rating, rather than hash it out here. It has nothing to do with being jaded, just honestly evaluating a skin for Originality, Useability, and Appearnce.
) I've sent you an email to explain why I gave you that rating, rather than hash it out here. It has nothing to do with being jaded, just honestly evaluating a skin for Originality, Useability, and Appearnce.
Please login to comment and/or vote for this skin.
Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
- Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums and downloading skins.
- Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
- Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
- It's simple, and FREE!
|
|
Page 1 of 2 | |
|
|---|
Reply #1 Thursday, August 5, 2004 2:32 PM
I strongly disagree with this point. If you don't want to dwonload the skin, how can you give it an honest evaluation? Koa's number one rule is...."if you didn't download, and use it, don't rate it!".