Help with 'All Programs" background please!
Monday, April 26, 2004 by Robyn Henke | Discussion: Skinning
How do I get the background for "All Programs" to not color on mouseover? I have some themes that this happens with and I have several that it does not happen with and I cannot figure out what they do not have in common (I am modifiying themes I have downloaded for my personal use). Thanks.
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SelfExiled
Reply #2 Monday, April 26, 2004 4:12 PM
Reply #2 Monday, April 26, 2004 4:12 PM
Basically, you change the margins, and set a big arrow button to cover the entire left pane around the arrow. This basically forces the color off the screen.
PixelPirate
Reply #3 Monday, April 26, 2004 4:54 PM
Reply #3 Monday, April 26, 2004 4:54 PM
Thanks for the hint Chas 
I just reconfigured my current work-in-progress skin looking at yours. It made it a whole lot better. Actually it extends how you can design the start menu. Quite cool.
I just reconfigured my current work-in-progress skin looking at yours. It made it a whole lot better. Actually it extends how you can design the start menu. Quite cool.
Essencay
Reply #4 Monday, April 26, 2004 10:56 PM
Reply #4 Monday, April 26, 2004 10:56 PM
I think it's great when a skinner spends the extra effort to "hide" that mouseover, it adds a much more professional touch to the skin 
That one and when a skinner works around the limitations of the "Favorites" menu
That one and when a skinner works around the limitations of the "Favorites" menu
Shameless Designs
Reply #5 Tuesday, April 27, 2004 12:32 PM
Reply #5 Tuesday, April 27, 2004 12:32 PM
On a lot of the skins where you say the mouseover/focus color (Hover color in Win98) is not there, it actually is there, it's just that the mouseover color is set to match the background so that it is not visible. If the More Programs Panel Background image is plain enough, as it is on many skins, the color can be set to match it and there is no need for the large arrow graphic that ChasUGC describes. The setting for that in Skin Studio can be found under left tree: Start Panel>More Programs Panel>Background and right tree: Text Settings>Mouse over/Focus Color. Be aware that you can only use Preset colors for this, so you may need to setup a new preset color under left tree: Miscellaneous>Presets>Color Presets if that color is not already defined in the skin.
SelfExiled
Reply #6 Wednesday, April 28, 2004 3:04 AM
Reply #6 Wednesday, April 28, 2004 3:04 AM
SD is correct, I used that method in earlier skins of mine. But, it got graphically boring making single color designs just because windows didn't think beyond a single color in the all Programs section. Imagine, CooperDeck II with a single color all programs button,Ugh. As you can also see with that beautiful skin, the problem is getting rid of the color on the mouse over, not changing it. In most of the truly graphically creative skins, like CopperDeck II, that mouse over color sticks out like a sore thumb.
Robyn Henke
Reply #7 Wednesday, April 28, 2004 8:15 AM
Reply #7 Wednesday, April 28, 2004 8:15 AM
Thank you all so much for your help. I think I have got it now. I agree with Essencay in that I like when a skinner makes the effort to "hide" that mouseover color, especially with 'graphic' themes. Thanks again for the good tips!
Robyn Henke
Reply #8 Wednesday, April 28, 2004 10:08 AM
Reply #8 Wednesday, April 28, 2004 10:08 AM
I was wrong 
I tried all of the suggestions in the previous posts and none of them worked. I understood everything, just when I tried to use them, nothing worked. I just wanted to be sure everyone understands where I am coming from, so please take a look at the following examples. http://www.korissamarie.com/robyns.htm
I have been trying for years to get this solved! There are so many settings in Skin Studio that it is really confusing. Hats off to all skinners because this stuff is hard!! Again, any help would be greatly appreciated!
[Message Edited]
I tried all of the suggestions in the previous posts and none of them worked. I understood everything, just when I tried to use them, nothing worked. I just wanted to be sure everyone understands where I am coming from, so please take a look at the following examples. http://www.korissamarie.com/robyns.htmI have been trying for years to get this solved! There are so many settings in Skin Studio that it is really confusing. Hats off to all skinners because this stuff is hard!! Again, any help would be greatly appreciated!
[Message Edited]
Essencay
Reply #10 Wednesday, April 28, 2004 7:41 PM
Reply #10 Wednesday, April 28, 2004 7:41 PM
Where the mouseover shows is defined by two things. 1. the content margins and the size of the arrow graphic. By getting the right mix of reducing the content margins and increasing the size of the arrow graphic like Chas said you can hide the mouseover, it will still be there, but you just won't be able to see it. Open a skin that it works in and rip'er apart to see how the skinner did it
Shameless Designs
Reply #11 Thursday, April 29, 2004 1:55 AM
Reply #11 Thursday, April 29, 2004 1:55 AM
robynjh,
The example that you gave that "doesn't work" and the one that does are both using the Mouse Over/Focus color. The difference is that in the first example, the Mouse over/Focus color is an exact match for the main background color of the More Programs panel and has the left content margin set so that the Mouse over/focus color doesn't cover the left border of the More programs panel where the colors change. In the second example, the artist elected to use a different color to emphasize the Mouse over state, and left the content margins at the default settings.
This is an artistic choice by the artist in many cases, but sometimes it may also be the result of an oversight or lack of knowledge about the possibilities in skinning. In either case, it's not considered very polite to just state categorically that something "looks terrible." It's all in the eye of the beholder after all.
At any rate, the second example could quite easily be modified to make the Mouse over color appear to disappear, so to speak by changing the RGB settings and adjusting the content margins, particularly the left margin. The color of the arrows, by the way, has absolutely nothing to do with the Mouse over color as they are drawn on top of the Mouse over color.
As has been suggested previously, it would also be possible to do this with an oversized More Programs Arrow graphic. If you are really interested in that method, there is a fairly good discussion of it in this thread: https://www.wincustomize.com/msgboard.asp?id=262666&BID=WCH&page=1#266760
I hope this clarifies some things for you. If not, just come on back and we'll keep trying til we get it right.
The example that you gave that "doesn't work" and the one that does are both using the Mouse Over/Focus color. The difference is that in the first example, the Mouse over/Focus color is an exact match for the main background color of the More Programs panel and has the left content margin set so that the Mouse over/focus color doesn't cover the left border of the More programs panel where the colors change. In the second example, the artist elected to use a different color to emphasize the Mouse over state, and left the content margins at the default settings.
This is an artistic choice by the artist in many cases, but sometimes it may also be the result of an oversight or lack of knowledge about the possibilities in skinning. In either case, it's not considered very polite to just state categorically that something "looks terrible." It's all in the eye of the beholder after all.
At any rate, the second example could quite easily be modified to make the Mouse over color appear to disappear, so to speak by changing the RGB settings and adjusting the content margins, particularly the left margin. The color of the arrows, by the way, has absolutely nothing to do with the Mouse over color as they are drawn on top of the Mouse over color.
As has been suggested previously, it would also be possible to do this with an oversized More Programs Arrow graphic. If you are really interested in that method, there is a fairly good discussion of it in this thread: https://www.wincustomize.com/msgboard.asp?id=262666&BID=WCH&page=1#266760
I hope this clarifies some things for you. If not, just come on back and we'll keep trying til we get it right.
SelfExiled
Reply #12 Thursday, April 29, 2004 3:29 AM
Reply #12 Thursday, April 29, 2004 3:29 AM
Okay robynjh, I underatnd the problem from your link. In the top skin the background color is solid. So, you can just match the background color on the left side of the all programs pane and you won't see any color. That one is easy.
But, on the second skin, that idea is not possible. Because the left side and bottom portion of the all programs pane in the second skin, is not a solid continuous color. Therefore what you need to do is create a new arrow image that contains the arrow and the entire rest of the left pane. Then, the over image will contain the entire left pane and the arrow highlighted.
Then, you need to set the margins properly. A -90 in the left margin is where I started. It is fairly easy once you figure out how it works. You can send me the skin if you want and I will fix it for you. My email addy is in my profile.
But, on the second skin, that idea is not possible. Because the left side and bottom portion of the all programs pane in the second skin, is not a solid continuous color. Therefore what you need to do is create a new arrow image that contains the arrow and the entire rest of the left pane. Then, the over image will contain the entire left pane and the arrow highlighted.
Then, you need to set the margins properly. A -90 in the left margin is where I started. It is fairly easy once you figure out how it works. You can send me the skin if you want and I will fix it for you. My email addy is in my profile.
SelfExiled
Reply #13 Thursday, April 29, 2004 3:35 AM
Reply #13 Thursday, April 29, 2004 3:35 AM
I actually got the idea from the thread that SD mentions. I tried numerous things and it took me a day after many fails to re-think how to make it work. It is fairly easy once you see how its done. I wish some of the great skins such as CopperDeckII, ToonXP, and PixOS would update their skins like this. That over color ruins these skins in my opinion.
Robyn Henke
Reply #14 Thursday, April 29, 2004 12:21 PM
Reply #14 Thursday, April 29, 2004 12:21 PM
Thank you all once again! I haven't had a chance to try out the suggestions, but will as soon as possible. I have not used so many skins because of this problem (and there are a lot) but if I can 'fix' it myself, great! I am sorry I used the 'looks terrible' phrase 
I wasn't trying to be mean. I will definitely let all know if I get it to work. Thank you so much!
I wasn't trying to be mean. I will definitely let all know if I get it to work. Thank you so much!
Robyn Henke
Reply #15 Thursday, April 29, 2004 12:36 PM
Reply #15 Thursday, April 29, 2004 12:36 PM
Shameless Designs, that link you posted has some wonderful information! I just got done reading it! Those are the threads I had tried finding before I started mine, but I guess my search words weren't correct.
Shameless Designs
Reply #16 Thursday, April 29, 2004 8:25 PM
Chas, the left and bottom portions don't matter because you can control the size of the highlight by adjusting the content margins of the More Programs Panel background. In the Smile skin, those margins are set at 0,0,0,0 which is why the highlight covers the whole panel. If you set the Left content margin at 22, the Bottom content margin at 6, and leave the Top and Right content margins at 0 or even set them at 1, then the highlight will only cover the large nearly uniform light grey portion (Approximately RGB 214,214,214) of the More Programs Panel Background.
You then would need to set up a new Preset Color, I think it would be 05 in this skin to that 214,214,214 color. Then Set the Mouse over/Focus color to the Preset Color 05, and the highlight should disappear.
Unfortunately, at the moment, I seem to have a bug with my latest build of WB wherein my skins seem to be inheriting that particular color from the previous skin when I change skins, and nothing I do seems to change it. SO if I could ask someone else to please try this procedure as I've outlined, I'm quite certain it will work. Thanks.
Reply #16 Thursday, April 29, 2004 8:25 PM
| But, on the second skin, that idea is not possible. Because the left side and bottom portion of the all programs pane in the second skin, is not a solid continuous color. |
Chas, the left and bottom portions don't matter because you can control the size of the highlight by adjusting the content margins of the More Programs Panel background. In the Smile skin, those margins are set at 0,0,0,0 which is why the highlight covers the whole panel. If you set the Left content margin at 22, the Bottom content margin at 6, and leave the Top and Right content margins at 0 or even set them at 1, then the highlight will only cover the large nearly uniform light grey portion (Approximately RGB 214,214,214) of the More Programs Panel Background.
You then would need to set up a new Preset Color, I think it would be 05 in this skin to that 214,214,214 color. Then Set the Mouse over/Focus color to the Preset Color 05, and the highlight should disappear.
Unfortunately, at the moment, I seem to have a bug with my latest build of WB wherein my skins seem to be inheriting that particular color from the previous skin when I change skins, and nothing I do seems to change it. SO if I could ask someone else to please try this procedure as I've outlined, I'm quite certain it will work. Thanks.
Essencay
Reply #17 Thursday, April 29, 2004 9:32 PM
Reply #17 Thursday, April 29, 2004 9:32 PM
Shameless...The mouseover for the All Programs will always inherit the color of the previous skin unless it is set in Left Tree => Miscellaneous => Colors....Right Tree => Menus => Menu - Hilighted background (XP Only) Just enter you RGB values here.
The Mouse over/Focus color is the WB4.x replacement for Hover Color and is supposed to change the color of the text when it's hilighted. I'm not sure what other Mouse over/Focus, that has an ability to use a preset that you are referring to.
The Mouse over/Focus color is the WB4.x replacement for Hover Color and is supposed to change the color of the text when it's hilighted. I'm not sure what other Mouse over/Focus, that has an ability to use a preset that you are referring to.
Shameless Designs
Reply #18 Thursday, April 29, 2004 10:56 PM
Reply #18 Thursday, April 29, 2004 10:56 PM
Ahah! Thank you very much, SNK. I was in a rush before, trying to get things done before I had to head out the door. Don't know where my head was at.
At any rate, By changing the Highlighted Background color, as Essencay points out in #17, and by using the content margins as I described in #16, you get this in the Smile skin:
Which I think is pretty close to making the highlight disappear in this skin.
I was in a rush before, trying to get things done before I had to head out the door. Don't know where my head was at.At any rate, By changing the Highlighted Background color, as Essencay points out in #17, and by using the content margins as I described in #16, you get this in the Smile skin:
Which I think is pretty close to making the highlight disappear in this skin.
SelfExiled
Reply #19 Friday, April 30, 2004 12:24 AM
Reply #19 Friday, April 30, 2004 12:24 AM
If you'll notice though, the bottom portion of the arrow is cut off. Sure, you can adjust the content margins on the left side and set the background color. But, the arrow extends into the gradient on the bottom. You can probably adjust the content margins on the bottom, but you will probably need to change the arrow(add some magic pink above or below) and then I found it to be very difficult to make the text center with the arrow. As you can also see, the text is not completely centered with the arrow, and the arrow is not centered in the pane.
SelfExiled
Reply #20 Friday, April 30, 2004 12:33 AM
Reply #20 Friday, April 30, 2004 12:33 AM
I was looking at your graphic again. It would have been really interesting if the artist actually used the effect that I see in your picture. It almost looks as if the All Programs letters are multi-colored on mouse over. That would be awesome and it could be accomplished using the large arrow idea. 
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Reply #1 Monday, April 26, 2004 4:10 PM