Blog: Sick of politics, widget grumbles.
Monday, November 1, 2004 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize News
Well I don't know about you guys but I'm sick of politics. I'm predicting a Kerry win for whatever it's worth with 306 to 232 electoral votes. But frankly, as a political junkie, I'm just tired of it. Make it stop!
WinCustomize Magazine is being sent out. It takes forever to get fully sent out now with so many subscribers. I think it's at M's now in the alphabetically sorted list. The Utopia icons are mentioned in there. The official announcement comes next week.
I have to say that I'm a little disappointed with the DesktopX widget content. In fact, I'm pretty disappointed with the quality of widgets all around these days. Weather. Yea, we get it. Everytime I demo DesktopX people are amazed. I show how easy it is to create stuff for it and people are even more amazed. And yet the cool new content for it is a bit underwhelming. It's the same for Kapsules and Samurize.
It's made me tempted to write an article about maybe all this widget stuff is only being used by such a tiny niche of users that it hasn't caught on beyond those of us who are really into this stuff. I've looked at Konfabulator's widgets and numbers and they're pretty depressing too. Weather, clocks, RSS feeds, MP3 players and calendars. That's the widget story at this point.
One might argue that a smarter strategy would be to simply make a program that has highly skinnable simple programs that do those kinds of things and let people just make skins for them. It's a lot easier to skin things that already exist than to try to modify an existing widget. Maybe I'm just cynical but I am curious what you guys think.
I can think of quite a few widgets I would like to see: Currency conversion widget, Site meter web monitor widget, Google API based widgets, Printer widget, ImageShack widget. Just to name a few.
I don't want to sound like I'm dissing all the recent widgets. I can name quite a few cool ones too. But just the overall trend is a bit down. Martin created a ton of templates of interesting widgets and there's not much being done with them. So you tell me, people want this stuff? I thought with the hot keys to bring widgets to top people would use this more. I know I do. I use the talk radio widget a ton for instance. Plus a bunch of custom widgets I made.
The WindowBlinds contest has definitely gotten things moving along. It's really a close call right now.
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Mav Phoenix
Reply #2 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 12:35 AM
Reply #2 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 12:35 AM
That's the way it's always been though. I haven't seen a really original widget in some time. I think people are just out of ideas, practical ones at least. In regards to the overlay feature, it's nice but was acting strangely with whatever calendar object I was using (it would pop up at random and well just got in the way. I never figured it out so I just stopped using it. I was also expecting more of an elegant fade or something with the overlay versus a simple on off approach.
Anyway...
I would like to see an extensible FTP widget/object. It's late now though and I'm having some trouble coming up with more ideas.
Anyway...
I would like to see an extensible FTP widget/object. It's late now though and I'm having some trouble coming up with more ideas.
Darkthorn
Reply #3 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 12:46 AM
Reply #3 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 12:46 AM
As much as DesktopX looks cool, this trend doesn't surprise me at the least. The problem is that DesktopX is trying to reinvent the application development wheel, but not bringing that killer feature. Most people who will develop this type of stuff, already know how to do it in a major development area(java, C++, .NET), and can do it more easily.
For people looking for apps/utilities, there are tons of them already out there on the internet, and many of them are done better.
And the last nail is the fact that the realtime desktop apps like weather monitors, cpu monitors, mail monitors etc etc become useless as soon as someone opens up a web browser, which usually will cover 80-100% of a normal person's screen. Which after a little bit of time, people will just remove since they never look at them anyway.
While there are cool things desktopX can do, and some fun widgets, I think the future of this will be a common way of extending other stardock apps (like object bar). Other than that I think DesktopX is a pretty toy, and I really wish you guys wouldn't put so much effort into it and neglect your other areas.
For people looking for apps/utilities, there are tons of them already out there on the internet, and many of them are done better.
And the last nail is the fact that the realtime desktop apps like weather monitors, cpu monitors, mail monitors etc etc become useless as soon as someone opens up a web browser, which usually will cover 80-100% of a normal person's screen. Which after a little bit of time, people will just remove since they never look at them anyway.
While there are cool things desktopX can do, and some fun widgets, I think the future of this will be a common way of extending other stardock apps (like object bar). Other than that I think DesktopX is a pretty toy, and I really wish you guys wouldn't put so much effort into it and neglect your other areas.
craeonics
Reply #4 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 3:26 AM
Reply #4 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 3:26 AM
The average computer user is dumb ****** and the average skinner isn't much smarter, considering that they need a GUI to skin WindowBlinds. Add to that that people don't like reading manuals and the chances of people coming up with original widgets are slim. Far too complex for the masses.
retiredmaster
Reply #5 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 4:47 AM
Reply #5 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 4:47 AM
(I don't use a GUI to skin WindowBlinds...)
dukeofchutney
Reply #6 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 4:51 AM
Reply #6 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 4:51 AM
Taking up Scott's point about desktop real estate coverage, the only widget I have running at present is the Internet Explorer one by Martin (I think), and as I like to run my apps full-screen I can see I'm going to turn it off after a while simply because it isn't handy enough to be got at easily (now I know we can hit F9 or F10 but that's another thing to be remembered & done before I can see it - and I haven't positioned my cursor inside it or typed anything into it yet).
On the other hand True Launch Bar sits on my Taskbar and can be set to respond to a mouse-over - now there's some ease of use.
I don't know what the answer is to this particular one (IS there an answer?), hot-spots maybe - although those have their drawbacks too in that you can inadvertently activate your widgets if your mouse strays into the hotspot. Another possibility could be mouse gestures ie, hit 2 edges of your monitor with your mouse and up pop your widgets? That way widget accessibility requires only your mouse rather than a keyboard and mouse combo as at present.
I accept I may be picky, infact I am being picky and part of that I suspect is because this other app has spoilt me.
On the other hand True Launch Bar sits on my Taskbar and can be set to respond to a mouse-over - now there's some ease of use.
I don't know what the answer is to this particular one (IS there an answer?), hot-spots maybe - although those have their drawbacks too in that you can inadvertently activate your widgets if your mouse strays into the hotspot. Another possibility could be mouse gestures ie, hit 2 edges of your monitor with your mouse and up pop your widgets? That way widget accessibility requires only your mouse rather than a keyboard and mouse combo as at present.
I accept I may be picky, infact I am being picky and part of that I suspect is because this other app has spoilt me.
Placebo_09
Reply #7 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 5:05 AM
Reply #7 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 5:05 AM
I would love to see more widgets. The idea of a currency conversion widget appeals to me.
I am going into my third year as wincustomize subscriber and I have been a little disappointed with the lack of desktopX skins for 1024x780 resolutions. I have made a small effort at attempting to skin but so far I haven't been able figure it out in the little spare time I have. For me the challenge has been understanding how to create graphical components. For example I tried making a few icons but the results of my efforts have been abysmal even when using icon developer to convert already exiting graphics. I seem to quite clueless in this regard. Although I consider myself to be an above average computer user (I have some albeit ancient programming experience), I think craeonics may be correct in saying that skinning is "far too complex for the masses" including slightly above average users like myself.
I am going into my third year as wincustomize subscriber and I have been a little disappointed with the lack of desktopX skins for 1024x780 resolutions. I have made a small effort at attempting to skin but so far I haven't been able figure it out in the little spare time I have. For me the challenge has been understanding how to create graphical components. For example I tried making a few icons but the results of my efforts have been abysmal even when using icon developer to convert already exiting graphics. I seem to quite clueless in this regard. Although I consider myself to be an above average computer user (I have some albeit ancient programming experience), I think craeonics may be correct in saying that skinning is "far too complex for the masses" including slightly above average users like myself.
sranshaft
Reply #8 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 5:45 AM
Reply #8 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 5:45 AM
I must say, I have to agree with the post. I've put out a request on the usenet forums and several forums around the net for ideas for widgets and hadn't received a single idea. This is not to say there aren't many ideas that could be done, and done well (I have a few ideas, one being the currency converter which I have some scripting ideas for, and an address book/telephone number lookup) but like craeonics stated, there is some difficulty in using the striped down vbscripting language with my knowledge of it so far. The address book I created for personal use works but is very mucked with bad coding and would need a serious look through to clean it up. Hopefully more can be done with DesktopX that has already been done so far. There is a lot this program can do. I remember a while back mentioning of a Script Tutorial or a compilation of scripts that could be used. Once people can jump that hurdle of having to program maybe then some useful things will come out.
c242
Reply #9 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 7:30 AM
Reply #9 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 7:30 AM
Hmm, widgets. Pretty lost on the script thing and plugin support has stopped at some point. Trash and Mail plugin is horrible, object media development has stopped totally.
And what to do a cool widget for that is then lost and invisible amongst dozens of weather objects based on window blinds skins because of authors unable to self moderate themselves and flooding the dx area with them ?
While we are at it : I have 3 themes waiting for updating, which I can't as the label offset feature was taken out from desktop x without a reason. So why create additional objects for non functional themes then ? To make one thing clear : I love Stardock and its products, but DesktopX has gone a little offhand I think. Where are the exceptional overall good themes since Heavy Equipment or Toon ? The only person that produces some is Gef, but everyone else and his mother does weather objects now.
And what to do a cool widget for that is then lost and invisible amongst dozens of weather objects based on window blinds skins because of authors unable to self moderate themselves and flooding the dx area with them ?
While we are at it : I have 3 themes waiting for updating, which I can't as the label offset feature was taken out from desktop x without a reason. So why create additional objects for non functional themes then ? To make one thing clear : I love Stardock and its products, but DesktopX has gone a little offhand I think. Where are the exceptional overall good themes since Heavy Equipment or Toon ? The only person that produces some is Gef, but everyone else and his mother does weather objects now.
c242
Reply #10 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 7:34 AM
Reply #10 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 7:34 AM
BTW, give it two days and we will see a new "CyberSkin" weather object.
People, there is a graet neutral weather object by Martin that fits every skin ever made. Why not use that ?
People, there is a graet neutral weather object by Martin that fits every skin ever made. Why not use that ?
ExodusCrow
Reply #11 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 8:03 AM
Reply #11 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 8:03 AM
I'm actually working on a currency conversion widget right now! It's just hard finding a site with current updates that will allow you to do it! (example xe.com)
Kevin_C
Reply #12 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 8:22 AM
Reply #12 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 8:22 AM
I may just have to have a go at the site monitor widget, seeing as I've written some similar code in the past and I'm pretty sure I still have it lying around here somewhere.. We'll have to see how it goes.
Island Dog
Reply #13 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 8:25 AM
Reply #13 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 8:25 AM
I think DesktopX is great and I use several widgets on my desktop. I would like to make widgets of my own, but I have to admit the scripting is intimidating.
Island Dog
Reply #14 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 8:26 AM
Reply #14 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 8:26 AM
I think DesktopX is great and I use several widgets on my desktop. I would like to make widgets of my own, but I have to admit the scripting is intimidating.
Murex
Reply #15 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 9:02 AM
Reply #15 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 9:02 AM
DesktopX started out as a program that had all the scripting done already all one had to do was add graphics and a little imagination and you could come up with something that worked. A lot of people could handle that, Now it seems every thing has to have scripts which there are just not that many who can write or understand scripts my self included. Yes I know that there have been templates made but again they are hard to use because of the lack of knowledge of scripts. Also there have been times when the script just didn't work right. If you want to know which ones don't work just look through the object templates that no one has used. I am not knocking the program I like DesktopX and I think it's a great program. I have made a few themes for desktopx at first I was really excited, Now the passion is gone.Maybe if there was more help for the one's that aren't naturals at skinning you would see more productive widgets, themes and objects. Wouldn't it be nice if when some one asks for comments on their theme an advanced skinner would give them some advice or even a tip or two. Sorry to say this but every thing seems to be just numbers . It's fine to praise those that excel but a little encouragement for those that are trying will go a long way too. Also as others have suggested an in depth tutorial on objects and scripts would help.
Just some thoughts
Craeonics.... just because some one doesn't understand every thing about computers or programming, doesn't make them as dumb as you seem to think.
Just some thoughts
Craeonics.... just because some one doesn't understand every thing about computers or programming, doesn't make them as dumb as you seem to think.
digital_trucker
Reply #16 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 9:05 AM
Reply #16 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 9:05 AM
I've got some goodies on hold, waiting for a couple of features on the to-do list (object.group, for one...a new email plugin for another)
GreenReaper
Reply #17 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 9:45 AM
Reply #17 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 9:45 AM
Murex: The whole script thing is indeed a problem. Skinners don't like having to be scripters as well. More plugins would possibly help with this, although there's always been the problem of quality control there - it's easy to make a bad plugin that breaks DX.
_Martin_
Reply #18 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 10:05 AM
Reply #18 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 10:05 AM
Personally I think that if something like the CUI became integrated into DX along with "Plugin" scripts so that developers could just call functions rather than cloning existing scripts all the time life would be easier for developers.
Please ... no more weather !!!
Please ... no more weather !!!
Murex
Reply #19 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 10:55 AM
Reply #19 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 10:55 AM
Martin
Great Idea. I use a program to design kitchen cabinets, I have a basic cabinet library I can draw from if I need a different size cabinet I have an interface that allows me to change the size and shape of said cabinet. I think this is more or less what you are talking about.
Say if you wrote a script for a dock which moves from the left side of the screen ( which you did) But we wanted it to move from the bottom of the screen we could draw from a library of scripts that would allow the dock to move from bottom , top or either side. Is this possible? If so like you say it would make things a lot easier for those of us lacking script knowledge. I think the reason so many make weather and calendar objects is because the script is going to work for them because they are not changing the basic functions of that script. When you move into something larger such as a dock it is harder to make it function in other ways such as the direction it moves and the objects you can add to it.
Great Idea. I use a program to design kitchen cabinets, I have a basic cabinet library I can draw from if I need a different size cabinet I have an interface that allows me to change the size and shape of said cabinet. I think this is more or less what you are talking about.
Say if you wrote a script for a dock which moves from the left side of the screen ( which you did) But we wanted it to move from the bottom of the screen we could draw from a library of scripts that would allow the dock to move from bottom , top or either side. Is this possible? If so like you say it would make things a lot easier for those of us lacking script knowledge. I think the reason so many make weather and calendar objects is because the script is going to work for them because they are not changing the basic functions of that script. When you move into something larger such as a dock it is harder to make it function in other ways such as the direction it moves and the objects you can add to it.
Brock Beesley
Reply #20 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 11:41 AM
Reply #20 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 11:41 AM
Brad,
I sort of understand the frustration but yet at the same time I'm not sure that everything going on is all that bad. Please pardon my ignorance because I still have yet to skin anything. But that's the reason why I come here. I'll shell out the $$ for an OD Subscription, a Wincustomize Subscription and all the suites from here, Treetog, Essorant, etc. and I'll do it because I'm happy to give to those who do such a great job at what I like that I can't do . . . yet
I can't skin a weather object so I enjoy when I see the calendar and weather objects for different WB skins. I'm sorry but that helps me create somewhat of a complete desktop.
However, as much as some of you despise the weather objects, I think we have seen some GREAT variations of weather and calendar objects. Tiggz "orbital weather" and "k-clock" objects are phenomenal. I love the detail and information of the "looking glass weather" even if it comes from a traditional weather object.
Wasn't the door opened to weather and calendar objects when a standard one was put on the site by Martin? (nothing against you Martin . . . just asking a question).
I look forward to all the new things that are on their way and maybe we do need a bit more creativity but I don't want to necessarily supress what is being done at present.
IMO.
BTW, I just got the Utopia Icon Suite and I really like it. I think it's well done . . . similar in style to his previous icon's but very professional.
I sort of understand the frustration but yet at the same time I'm not sure that everything going on is all that bad. Please pardon my ignorance because I still have yet to skin anything. But that's the reason why I come here. I'll shell out the $$ for an OD Subscription, a Wincustomize Subscription and all the suites from here, Treetog, Essorant, etc. and I'll do it because I'm happy to give to those who do such a great job at what I like that I can't do . . . yet
I can't skin a weather object so I enjoy when I see the calendar and weather objects for different WB skins. I'm sorry but that helps me create somewhat of a complete desktop.
However, as much as some of you despise the weather objects, I think we have seen some GREAT variations of weather and calendar objects. Tiggz "orbital weather" and "k-clock" objects are phenomenal. I love the detail and information of the "looking glass weather" even if it comes from a traditional weather object.
Wasn't the door opened to weather and calendar objects when a standard one was put on the site by Martin? (nothing against you Martin . . . just asking a question).
I look forward to all the new things that are on their way and maybe we do need a bit more creativity but I don't want to necessarily supress what is being done at present.
IMO.
BTW, I just got the Utopia Icon Suite and I really like it. I think it's well done . . . similar in style to his previous icon's but very professional.
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Reply #1 Tuesday, November 2, 2004 12:04 AM