Blog: ObjectDock, pizza, and DesktopX 2.2
Tuesday, July 13, 2004 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize News
I've been having a ball with ObjectDock Plus. I've got 4 different docks going on my desktop but you can barely tell because I have itty bitty tabs on 3 of them. The 4th dock I don't have docked to an edge but instead I have it activate when I put my mouse to the very bottom. The biggest glitch I've run into with it is that I can't drag and drop links to a dock (well I can but they don't work). What I want to do is have my "favorite" websites as a series of tiny tabs over on the left edge of my screen. I mostly use Keyboard LaunchPad for getting around my sites (Ctrl-Alt-1 for WinCustomize, 2 for Joeuser.com, 3 for Stardock, 4 for Neowin, and so forth). But what I want to use the docks for is more "temporary" favorite websites. Ones that I want to check out later when I have more time but know I'll forget but don't want to have permanently in my "favorites" list. 
BTW, if you've got a particularly clever ObjectDock Plus setup, take a screenshot and upload it and I'll try to feature some of them in my next WC blog.
One thing that ObjectDock Plus's availability has brought forward is an issue that affects most shareware developers and that is pricing. Go to a shareware conference or just hang out with other shareware authors and the topic is sure to come up: Why does the same guy who happily pays $8 to watch "White Chicks" and spend $4 on pop corn or $18 on two pizzas turn around and bitch about paying $15 to $20 for a software product that took an immense amount of effort to create that they'll be able to make use of for years?
What bugged me the most was the idea that because we have had ObjectDock (freeware) available that we somehow have no right to make a plus version. That somehow we're the greedy ones for wanting to be compensated for years of effort. Rather than being thankful that we make a free program like ObjectDock used by hundreds of thousands of people, one that we continue to update for free, we get guff for putting out a Plus version.
There were also the people who felt ObjectDock should be part of Object Desktop. I could at least, philosophically, understand where they were coming from. I'm not sure at what point Object Desktop came to equal "All of Stardock's stuff in a single package for $50". But my view is, anyone who's paid us $50 for Object Desktop is a customer and we're going to listen to their view point a lot more seriously than the kid who's never contributed anything back but feels entitled to call us greedy for making ObjectDock Plus.
The reason ObjectDock Plus isn't part of Object Desktop is very straight forward: Economics. Object Desktop has something like a dozen and a half programs in it. For $50. And most of these programs are really quite powerful.. I could go on for hours about how DesktopX should be a $100 product on its own given the things it can do for corporations but we target power users and consumers instead so we have to price it appropriately. The bottom line is that Object Desktop is a really really good deal. And it's such a good deal that it's very tough to sustain it even as is at the price it is.
Personally, and correct me if I'm mistaken, I think half the coolness of Object Desktop is that many of the components get very frequent updates. If you bought Object Desktop in say 1999, the main components in it have continually been updated in it year after year after year with more components being added over time. I don't want to name specific products but I suggest checking out other desktop enhancement programs that have come out during that time and note how often they've been updated (or heck, when the last time they were updated). Meanwhile, we've been cranking on DesktopX, WindowBlinds, WindowFX, IconPackager, and other pieces on a regular basis year after year after year. Heck, wait till you see ObjectBar 2. And we're working on some other cool new things too. Point being, this coolness is only possible as long as Object Desktop is economically viable. It's not like we're driving around in Porsches or something. Things that don't remain viable end up fading away.
I think at the end of the day the question is simply are people glad we made ObjectDock Plus? Based on the reaction we're seeing, we think yes. If it hadn't been released the way it is, it would never have been made.
Speaking of new stuff, later this Fall we hope to finally come out with the beta of ThinkDesk. This is an entirely new suite of products. Where Object Desktop is about extending your desktop, ThinkDesk is about managing your information. Pricing will be the same as Object Desktop (though unlike Object Desktop the price will probably go up once it leaves beta). It'll be XP only and we'll be focusing a lot of energy on .NET features.
Meanwhile in Italy, UK, and US where the distributed DesktopX team works, version 2.2 is nearly done. I think a new beta of it showed up on Object Desktop tonight along with IconX which is now separate (but if you have both installed, the IconX tab will show up in DesktopX). We learned from that WinCustomize poll that lots of people had no idea what IconX was. That needs to change as it's (in my biased opinion) one of the coolest programs on Windows.
So that's all for now. Gotta re-setup my crashed laptop. It's running plain Luna right now! Eeew!
Reply #42 Wednesday, July 14, 2004 1:58 PM
Stick a fork in me lads, I'm done. That's the thing I am most interested in, and that line in Frogboys post makes me happy

I may occasionally have slight grumbles about odd pricing issues (DXPro for example) but I just renewed my ODNT subscription for a third year, and while I was describing ODNT as a recommendation to a colleague, it reminded just how much ODNT represents extremely good value for moeny, and as such OD+ not automatically becoming part of ODNT doesn't fuss me at all.
Cheers! (again)
Reply #43 Wednesday, July 14, 2004 2:18 PM
Office 2003 Beta cost $20, I know because I paid for it. (they claimed it covered the price of the media and shipping, but $20 is a lot for just that),
Anyway, if you don't want to buy the beta, don't...wait a few weeks or months for the final release and if you want buy it then. Brad and the rest opened it up now just so people can start experiencing it and give bugs and advice for the final release.
Reply #44 Wednesday, July 14, 2004 2:33 PM
As towards buying software, I personally find it difficult to buy a program that's primarily cosmetic. No one needs Object Dock and such per sey, it's more so just something they'd like to have. I can closely relate to the situate as I've worked several royalty based jobs and made less money than that needed to buy a 24 pack of Pepsi. And anymore there is so much free and donation-ware, not to mention open source programs, that it is sometimes difficult to bring yourself to pay for software. One personal example, I use The GiMP for most my work, personally I think it's better than Photoshop and most other image editing programs, it's circumstances like this which make people rethink paying for software.
Reply #45 Wednesday, July 14, 2004 3:10 PM
Reply #46 Wednesday, July 14, 2004 4:02 PM
IconPackager and new features? IconPackager 2.5 had quite a few new features in it such as the icon library navigator, condensed themes, IconDeveloper integration, etc.  IconPackager 3.0 is scheduled for this Fall which supports changing a bunch of new icons that took a lot of effort to figure out how to change (And get them to stick).
ObjectBar, as mentioned, repeatedly, has been being worked on heavily for the past year. The reason there haven't been incremental updates is because we basically had to go back and start from scratch with it. And it probably never will remove the bars from Mizlla and Lotus Notes as that feature will never be 100% because different apps implement their menus differently and very very few people use that particular feature.
As for the value of Object Desktop and (competition), what's the competition to ObjectBar? Hoverdesk? It hasn't been updated in over a year and there's no new version in sight.  What competitor removes the menu bar you were just complaining about?
And what about the other programs? Which apps out there let you dynamically RESCALE applications in real time (and still interact with them to boot) like WindowFX? None. What is the DesktopX equivalent? You'd have to take Samurize, NextStart, Hoverdesk, SysMetrix and Litestep and thrown them together to get remotely the same funtionality (and you still wouldn't be able to export widgets as EXEs like you can with DesktopX).
Yes, if you bought Object Desktop in 2004 for ControlCenter or ObjectEdit then there's probably not a lot of value.  But we don't even include ControlCenter anymore with new purchases of Object Desktop btw. It will get re-added when ControlCenter 2 comes out based on ObjectBar 2 technology.
I might also remind you, since you've downloaded nearly a gigabyte of content, that your Object Desktop subscription currently gives you unlimited bandwidth use of WinCustomize and also gives you discounts on premium suites, CursorXP, and ObjectDock.
Anyway, all that debating aside, ultimately the market will decide.  If Object Desktop users collectively decided there wasn't enough value in what's in there then we would have to adjust or kill Object Desktop. We believe Object Desktop is the best software value around. 
Reply #47 Wednesday, July 14, 2004 5:34 PM
My reason for waiting is at this point the basic objectdock works great for me for what I need right now, also I am waiting for the slight bugs that have been found to be ironed out.
One other note, the products are great, but the owner of the company or even support staff going on a rant about complaints in my mind is certainly not professional. Most of use know that its is not even mature.
Cheers
Reply #48 Wednesday, July 14, 2004 5:40 PM
IP: The IP features you mentioned are not things that I use.
OB: In terms of OB I disagree with you on Mozilla. I would think that many of us in the customization community are using it quite heavily. The removal of the menu from applications is prob not used because its inconsistent and hidden under layers of menus (or it was the last time I used it). Except for this feature I don't really see what makes it stand out from Litestep.
WFx: As for WFx, I only use it for shadows, so I'm prob not noticing the stuff you're talking about.
DX: Exporting widgets to exe files is not something that I would use.
You need to consider that a lot of us spend more money on Stardock products than we do on upgrading the OS every few years. By subscribing (not paying a one time $50 fee) I would like to see some attention paid to the $30 worth of products (everything else besides WB) I pay for each year instead of seeing the company spend all its efforts on new products that I will have to pay more for. It sounds like you/Stardock have a lot of stuff in the pipe so maybe I'll be pleasantly suprised. I'd personally rather see the cost of an ODNT subscription go up by $5-$10 instead of having to buy 3 different products.
I guess the subscription model isn't necessarily right for me (doesn't mean it isn't right for others). In general I guess the point I was trying to make is that I have no issues with Stardock creating new products. If you want to charge for them, cool, thats your right.
Reply #49 Wednesday, July 14, 2004 5:43 PM
Reply #50 Wednesday, July 14, 2004 5:54 PM
ObjectDock+ beta was/is interesting enough that I paid for it. It died sometime the next day after I added a slew of tabs and shortcuts and it won't restart (yes, I sent in my smartexception log). But I'm comfortable knowing that paying for software includes some period of support and that I'll be able to get it working sometime over the next few days or weeks, even if I have to wait until its out of beta.
I work in an industry dominated by subscription-based services and know something about them, budgets, and customer expectations. Stardock might find that by making a few different packages of product combo's and by making it even more clear what the ala carte prices are that it could help customers understand the good value they are receiving.
E.g. DesktopX, IconX, CursorXP + any other two program of someone's choice for $45. Just an idea. The comments above are full of details about what program combo's people would like to choose.
This approach also might tell Stardock which programs are favorites. Of course, your download stats may already tell you that.
By the way, I think that the Objectdock business strategy is a good one: a useful tool for free, enough to whet a few appetites for the plus version that is an extremely useful tool that is inexpensive.
I'm also a big open source fan and I like no-cost software as much as anyone. I think that the trend is already underway where we'll all be seeing more open source projects shift to shareware instead of freeware. Certain types of software take enough time that the programmers have to forgo outside employment.
Anyway, I hope that Stardock continues to do fun and interesting things and that your business model works for the forseeable future.
Reply #51 Wednesday, July 14, 2004 5:59 PM
Reply #52 Wednesday, July 14, 2004 6:58 PM
Tab Launchpad alread lets you put URLs in a tab.
Cod: Yearly update fee on Object Desktop is $35.
Let's look at 2003:
New apps:
+ IconDeveloper
+ Keyboard LaunchPad
Major New Versions:
+ WindowBlinds 4
+ DesktopX 2
Updates to pretty much every other component (point updates).
Then there's 2004:
New Programs:
+ RightClick (Sept)
+ Theme Manager
+ IconX (this came from DesktopX 2.x originally)
Major New Version:
+ IconPackager 3
+ DesktopX 2.1/2.2 (they could have been whole number releases)
+ ObjectBar 2
+ Stardock Central 2
Plus updates to pretty much every other components in various levels.
Doesn't that seem like quite a bit of activity? And these aren't trivial revisions. Take a look at other "major" versions of popular shareware programs.  What is the difference between major versions of other programs? And yet they typically cost more on their own than Object Desktop on its own.
Anyway, I'm not trying to "Rant". I think that people who buy our software have a right to ask tough questions of the developers. They're the customers and I think we have a responsibility to answer as clearly and truthfully as possible.
Reply #53 Wednesday, July 14, 2004 7:21 PM
Reply #54 Wednesday, July 14, 2004 8:09 PM
Someone above said there should be different levels of ODNT and that my friend is an excellent Idea. I would have no problem dropping another 5-10 bucks a year to get the extra programs. Then for those who want the standard SD suite (known set of appps with no additions) leave the price the same. Look at it this way you get free beta and alpha tester like with ODNT. And also you'll have a way of enticing subscribers to move up a level. Also we won't ever have this conversation again.
BTW what is the subscriber retention rate? I know that I seem to have been around foever......

Reply #55 Wednesday, July 14, 2004 8:28 PM
Tast: I think we totally agree on that concept and we've been mulling it over for three years now.
The problem is the confusion involved.  On OS/2 we mistakenly made an Object Desktop Pro which was more expensive but then nobody wanted the "regular" version anymore.  So we ended up with a lot of lost sales.
What I was thinking we should do is have a Power User bundle where we just throw in as much as we can.  I was thinking it would make sense to wait until ThinkDesk beta comes out (since that's going to be $50 also) and then we can let users take advantage of upgrade pricing and such.
Reply #56 Wednesday, July 14, 2004 8:35 PM
Regarding users who subscribe and re-subscribe the next year. Because of the complexity, we've only been tracking this back until 2002.
2002: 36.5%
2003: 36.8%
2004: 37.5%*
(* measurement is based on first 6 months).
So retention rate has remained basically steady with a slight increase over time. To put it in perspective industry norm on software subscription rates is supposedly around 15%.
Reply #59 Wednesday, July 14, 2004 10:44 PM
looks like some great retention rates
Also the power user bundle sounds like a great Idea.
Another reason I like ODNT is Stardock central, I love being able to start up one app and know if my software has been updated, that's one reason I don't like the not attached apps. even though they show up in SDC I always seem to mess them up somehow?

Reply #60 Thursday, July 15, 2004 6:38 AM
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Reply #41 Wednesday, July 14, 2004 1:29 PM