Well, mine was not as bad as that, but I sympathize with you starkers. 

well again here in london we have had yet more teen muders, its all good and well talking about issues but its not stopping the violence. i agree with jazzilady that parents should be able to discipline their kids. coz of human rights laws thats now illegal. can we not get back to good old common sense and give teachers authority to discipline as well. i would like our police to be armed and shoot these little bastards who think they are so cool coz they are gangsters

update - ok so maybe shooting em is a wee bit extreme, why dont we deport em to saudi arabia instead   

Always has. Always will. We are a species to whom the word "enough" has a dictionary meaning but no existence in reality.

We all will die. Nothing changes that.

In other words, 'if you agree with me, you're thinking outside the box. If not, you're wrong.' That's circuitous argument. It's also incorrect. "Strong Leader" thinking is hardly outside the box. It was the first form of government in any social group. It's precisely contradictory to your wanting to have people become responsible. It's one way or the other. Responsible people don't need a huge gorilla with a police force. Responsible people try to get to the next stage of society where power, responsibility and education work together.

Quite the opposite. I'm just saying, "Act responsibly or we'll cut your testicles off." isn't the way to go. Making them assume responsibility by indenturing them is. Anything resembling castration is just violence disguised poorly as 'justice'. Education from age zero on isn't violence and therefore is more palatable for me.

We just differ as to means, WG. Patience. We'll get there eventually. You and I won't see it, and maybe it won't happen. The threat of extinction isn't anything more than a justification/rationalization for "The ends justify the means."

They don't.

It's too damn late once the kids are teenagers! By that time about all you can do is put em' in a boot camp or lock em' up. By then teenagers just turn a deaf ear to what parents or teachers or any authority figure says.

The good morals have to be instilled when they are much younger.

As far as the violence and murder go well we all know that a lot of that is the result of drugs. This brings up the question of legalizing drugs. I am in favor of legalizing some drugs. I can't link or quote any particular source off the top of my head but I have seen studies where crime and violence drastically decrease when drugs are taken out of the picture. This won't happen of course because the mentality is that all drugs are bad when in fact they are not. Cigarettes and booze are legal and look at the damage they cause. The health issues alone are enormous.

These problems can be turned around but only through education and the will of people to do right.

Parents have an obligation to instill good moral values in their kids when they are young. Maybe a lot of the parents lack good moral values themselves. In those cases I guess all you can do is lock and load then hope for the best.

Absolutely. Leading by example is the way to go. "As the twig is bent, so groweth the tree."

Absolutely. It's so sad that some people (the majority...or even all) seem to learn on lthrough negative consequences and pain. I (for one) am firmly resolved to open the umbrella before it starts raining.

It's so odd, isn't it Chasbo... We all seem to know what's right, but doing it, for some reason, is beyond us.

If you are faced with immanent death or grievous bodily harm, please do everything you can to survive. EVERYTHING. Then get a really good lawyer. Hey...we don't want anything happening to subscribers errrr....friends....to few around here!

WebGizmos, hear hear! It's freakin awesome to read an opinion of someone who thinks similarly to myself. I do tend to feel alone in my convictions much of the time. I once had a conversation very similar to the one you've written (about my thoughts on how procreating has been deemed to be an inalienable right, irregardless of the societies population or responsibility of the parents, mother, etc ) and the women I was speaking with actually freaked out and started freaking out and yelling about how "there aint no way no goddamned government is gonna tell her what to do with her body". It sounded like it came verbatim out of the latest tea-party gathering. I mean, she was obviously really enraged and emotional about it, but having known the woman for some time, I couldnt help but think that it was more of a pent up rage being misdirected. This conversation came about from a talk about the old system of welfare in CA, where you could continue to add new children to your case. (This is no longer the case here in CA.) I had the gall to say: "Why couldnt we consider asking women who have already proved to not being able to financially afford their current children, to temporarily voluntarily use birth control, at least while they are on the public dole. I asked the question only to provoke some thought and to have the conversation. I have the firm belief that we as a society need to keep the over-population of the planet in the forefront of our thoughts when 'planning families'. As it is now, there is no family planning, we just screw and pop out babies at whim. Or, 'shudder' we believe God will choose for us how many kids to have.

Like you I think many people are so firmly entrenched in ideas that have been fed to us via the media and by opposing political parties in order to gain votes, that they lose the ability to, as you say, 'think outside the box.' Sigh.

Doc, if I ever get flush again I'll subscribe. There I said it. I'll subscribe. Right now, I'm kind of poor. Right now a  subscription  is sheer luxury that I can't afford.

i think we should legalise all drugs and have them regulated and sold in proper establishments, it would also put those nasty drug cartels out of business and impact on the levels of crime. drugs are a fact of life, been there done all them and have moved on. as i recall booze was illegal in the us at one time and didnt stop ppl getting it and criminals profiting from it. well this is my personal opinion and i have always thought it foolish to make drugs illegal and pretend they dont exist

Chasbo: I think of you as a total Community member. I'm truly sorry if by not checking I embarrassed you. It was not my intent to do so, bud. It also has absolutely no impact as to how I think of you. When you can, you will. Cheers and better times to you, mate!

My elder son after getting some education on his 'second seat of learning' threatened to call the child abuse hot line. I then handed him the phone and asked him if he had considered what might happen in the interval between his call and them arriving for a visit. He said something to the effect of  "You mean they don't come right away?".  I answered, "There's one way to find out..." I was smiling when I said that. My eyes weren't.

Because then they would end up as terrorists in Iraq or Afghanistan. 

Go Doc!