I hate to be Simon but...
Sunday, February 2, 2003 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize News
You visit most sites that have themes and skins and you'll notice that have a gazillion wallpapers. You come here and you see fewer than 3000. Why is that? It's because we reject 9 out of 10 submissions.
Now, most of the moderators here are nice. They send out often lengthy emails to the authors of these wallpapers explaining why they were rejected. In return, they regularly get flamed, personal attacks and occasionally threatened.
I'm not nice. I don't send moderator notices. I'm the "Simon" from American Idol. I don't like spending time on a thoughtful email to have the author resond by attacking me. I just delete them. Sorry. I know that lots of these wallpapers are pretty good that get rejected. I know that many people spent many hours on these wallpapers. But there are dozens of sites that you can submit them too. Our goal here is to keep the number low. So that it's the "best of the best". Sure, occasionally something mediocre will get through and we are biased in favor of WALLPAPERS as opposed to works of art. But in general we try to ensure that the wallpaper section is kept as small as possible.
I know this upsets some people based on the emails that our poor VOLUNTEER moderators get. But I'm going to recommend that moderation emails become rare. It's just too discouraging for our VOLUNTEER moderators to get trashed in email for trying to gently tell them why their wallpaper didn't come up. Wallpapers that don't meet our criteria will simply be deleted. We hope you understand that with hundreds of wallpapers submitted every few days that this is the only way to reasonably get through them and provide a fair way for everyone.
Now, most of the moderators here are nice. They send out often lengthy emails to the authors of these wallpapers explaining why they were rejected. In return, they regularly get flamed, personal attacks and occasionally threatened.
I'm not nice. I don't send moderator notices. I'm the "Simon" from American Idol. I don't like spending time on a thoughtful email to have the author resond by attacking me. I just delete them. Sorry. I know that lots of these wallpapers are pretty good that get rejected. I know that many people spent many hours on these wallpapers. But there are dozens of sites that you can submit them too. Our goal here is to keep the number low. So that it's the "best of the best". Sure, occasionally something mediocre will get through and we are biased in favor of WALLPAPERS as opposed to works of art. But in general we try to ensure that the wallpaper section is kept as small as possible.
I know this upsets some people based on the emails that our poor VOLUNTEER moderators get. But I'm going to recommend that moderation emails become rare. It's just too discouraging for our VOLUNTEER moderators to get trashed in email for trying to gently tell them why their wallpaper didn't come up. Wallpapers that don't meet our criteria will simply be deleted. We hope you understand that with hundreds of wallpapers submitted every few days that this is the only way to reasonably get through them and provide a fair way for everyone.
 |
|
Page 3 of 6 | |
|
|---|
esco san
Reply #42 Monday, February 3, 2003 3:37 PM
Reply #42 Monday, February 3, 2003 3:37 PM
I apologize if I made it seem like I think useability is based on lightness or darkness. I am really only talking about the skins which are actually stressful on the eyes to look at. For example 1 light and 1 dark skin, Curly Kale with Sausages - (preview https://www.wincustomize.com/window.asp?Cmd=PREVIEW&source=http://skins.wincustomize.com/Lecrayon/wb/CurlyKale_Sausage_Set.jpg) and XP Crimson (preview https://www.wincustomize.com/window.asp?Cmd=PREVIEW&source=http://skins.wincustomize.com/Silent_Assailant/wb/XPCrimson.jpg) there is no way you can tell me that you dont have a hard time making out what those say on the screen and my point is if I can't read what's on the screen, how can I possibly use it.
Weaksid
Reply #43 Monday, February 3, 2003 4:07 PM
Reply #43 Monday, February 3, 2003 4:07 PM
To be honest. Maybe it worked fine for them and it was their vision. And 10 to 1 they probably worked many hours on it also. The fact is, if you don't like it and can't use it. Don't download it. Just avoid it and leave it alone. But if you have a suggestion. Put it in the comments in a nice way. So the next time they make something. They know what people want and make them better. There is always a beginning with everybody. Maybe that was their first. My other point is. If you don't like it also, make your own. We would be glad to see what you can come up with.
Lecrayon
Reply #44 Monday, February 3, 2003 4:57 PM
Reply #44 Monday, February 3, 2003 4:57 PM
This debate goes on and on and on. A couple of weeks ago I heard Frogboy say something in favour of walls and keeping the library. Now it seems to go the other way. I read something about Bakerstreets point of view about deleting the walls library and he got attacked. It is an endless debate and neither solution seems perfect. A long time ago I suggested to add a library that has walls that complement skins, and have a second one that is moderated on solid basis and understandable guidelines.
Jafo
Reply #45 Monday, February 3, 2003 4:58 PM
Reply #45 Monday, February 3, 2003 4:58 PM
There are four ways that a wallpaper will, or won't make it onto the site.
1. The author is a long-time, respected contributor to the site, and the skinning community in general, and has direct access without 'moderation', because he/she is 'trusted' not to upload inappropriate content ['borrowed' copyrighted works, porn, etc]
2. A wall goes through moderation, and is so mind-numbingly horrendous, or it is porn, or it's Britney Spears rendition xyz123, that it gets an instant 'kick' by the first moderator who has the misfortune to see it.
3. A wall goes through moderation, and is so mind-numbingly awe-inspiring that the first moderator who sees it, approves it.
But mostly...
4. A wall goes through moderation that looks like the guy's last 10 submissions but, oh, it may be better, maybe not....and it receives a 'comment' by the first Moderator...then another may look at it and doubt its origins...[looks like an'adni', but recoloured] [ isn't that Misery's-Deaddreamer, but with a swirl filter?]..posts a comment.
Perhaps a third will check...yep, seen that graphic in the Nijikon wall...kick it...or is it fair-use?
Kick it...no permission.txt.
So...we kick it, with an email saying 'moderated...permission required from original author'..
Response?...'Accusing me of ripping, you effing pricks..if you'd 'bothered' to go ask him he'd have told you he let me.
Stuff you, I'm gonna go to Devart where my work will be appreciated...stick it up your arse you bunch of t**ds'
Polite email response to outburst...
'your loss, not ours...BTW...many of the same moderators here are closely involved with Devart, and the other skin sites...if it's an issue here we can make sure it's an issue there as well...same reason.'
OK, so that got a bit 'specific' but perhaps you get the mechanism.
When a wallpaper may take 3 or 4 separate, individual human-intervention processes, each, and we get, 0oh, one or two walls a day [I wish], then you'll understand it's not quite as arbitrary as you might think.
Sure, some '[relative] crap' gets through, but you should just see what hits the cutting room floor...in droves....
1. The author is a long-time, respected contributor to the site, and the skinning community in general, and has direct access without 'moderation', because he/she is 'trusted' not to upload inappropriate content ['borrowed' copyrighted works, porn, etc]
2. A wall goes through moderation, and is so mind-numbingly horrendous, or it is porn, or it's Britney Spears rendition xyz123, that it gets an instant 'kick' by the first moderator who has the misfortune to see it.
3. A wall goes through moderation, and is so mind-numbingly awe-inspiring that the first moderator who sees it, approves it.
But mostly...
4. A wall goes through moderation that looks like the guy's last 10 submissions but, oh, it may be better, maybe not....and it receives a 'comment' by the first Moderator...then another may look at it and doubt its origins...[looks like an'adni', but recoloured] [ isn't that Misery's-Deaddreamer, but with a swirl filter?]..posts a comment.
Perhaps a third will check...yep, seen that graphic in the Nijikon wall...kick it...or is it fair-use?
Kick it...no permission.txt.
So...we kick it, with an email saying 'moderated...permission required from original author'..
Response?...'Accusing me of ripping, you effing pricks..if you'd 'bothered' to go ask him he'd have told you he let me.
Stuff you, I'm gonna go to Devart where my work will be appreciated...stick it up your arse you bunch of t**ds'
Polite email response to outburst...
'your loss, not ours...BTW...many of the same moderators here are closely involved with Devart, and the other skin sites...if it's an issue here we can make sure it's an issue there as well...same reason.'
OK, so that got a bit 'specific' but perhaps you get the mechanism.
When a wallpaper may take 3 or 4 separate, individual human-intervention processes, each, and we get, 0oh, one or two walls a day [I wish], then you'll understand it's not quite as arbitrary as you might think.
Sure, some '[relative] crap' gets through, but you should just see what hits the cutting room floor...in droves....
CacheMonet
Reply #46 Monday, February 3, 2003 5:11 PM
Reply #46 Monday, February 3, 2003 5:11 PM
I agree with "Simon" Frogboy... only let the best of the wallpapers in that way I don't have to wade through the crap to find nuggets of quality
If I want to do that, I can name a few sites that will dish up the dung....
If I want to do that, I can name a few sites that will dish up the dung....
JamMeister33
Reply #47 Monday, February 3, 2003 5:15 PM
Reply #47 Monday, February 3, 2003 5:15 PM
Anyone who submits a piece to this site, and then is told it's not up to the standards that this site is looking for should accept that at face value and have the maturity to not respond in a negative manner....
Maybe your next effort will be loudly applauded by everyone.
Did you stop to think of that before you sent off that hateful email?
Maybe your next effort will be loudly applauded by everyone.
Did you stop to think of that before you sent off that hateful email?
grayhaze
Reply #48 Monday, February 3, 2003 6:00 PM
Reply #48 Monday, February 3, 2003 6:00 PM
My solution would be to close the wallpapers section entirely. Keep it a skinning site, and don't allow for the over-complication of moderating another medium entirely. It seems that passions run very highly where wallpapers are concerned, and the need to moderate them only stir those passions to boiling point.
As for those people complaining about ugly skins, remember that the main purpose for this site's existence is to gather skins for Stardock's products. Just because you think a skin is ugly, it doesn't mean someone else won't find value in it, even if only as a learning aid for new skinners.
As for those people complaining about ugly skins, remember that the main purpose for this site's existence is to gather skins for Stardock's products. Just because you think a skin is ugly, it doesn't mean someone else won't find value in it, even if only as a learning aid for new skinners.
Colorado 33
Reply #49 Monday, February 3, 2003 6:02 PM
Reply #49 Monday, February 3, 2003 6:02 PM
Maybe it would be better if you'd skip the whole wallpaper section. There are enough sites that hold them for the hungry among us. You cut out the section free up room and concentrate more on the skins this site was build on!
All skins are welcome, even the ugly one's. It might just appeal to some of us. But Simon is a cold and very frustrated idiot, that doesn't care much about other people's feelings. So, don't be a simon, be a Paula Abdul or Winnie the Pooh.
All skins are welcome, even the ugly one's. It might just appeal to some of us. But Simon is a cold and very frustrated idiot, that doesn't care much about other people's feelings. So, don't be a simon, be a Paula Abdul or Winnie the Pooh.
BoXXi
Reply #52 Monday, February 3, 2003 6:24 PM
Reply #52 Monday, February 3, 2003 6:24 PM
Why has this turned into a debate about the merits of having a wallpaper section or not? That is NOT the issue here, the moderation guidelines are NOT changing, only the way we inform people of whether their submission has been accepted or not. This is being done to spare the moderators the often unfounded personal attacks from the people who can't accept moderation. That's it! No other points were raised by Frogboy on the matter.
So, for those who don't get it, I'll say it again.... Nothing has changed except you won't get an e-mail saying your image was moderated. Simple.
So, for those who don't get it, I'll say it again.... Nothing has changed except you won't get an e-mail saying your image was moderated. Simple.
Surj
Reply #53 Monday, February 3, 2003 6:54 PM
Reply #53 Monday, February 3, 2003 6:54 PM
i like the idea of not having walls at all, save stardock some bandwidth. Let skinners include them in WB installs or dump em on other sites like deskmod or deviant if theyre part of a quite :shrug: just looking at this thread, and frogboys comments, doesnt seem like its worth the frustration, time, or money
Surj
Reply #54 Monday, February 3, 2003 6:56 PM
Reply #54 Monday, February 3, 2003 6:56 PM
err typo above, should be 'if theyre part of a suite' 
Aqua.
Reply #55 Monday, February 3, 2003 7:49 PM
Reply #55 Monday, February 3, 2003 7:49 PM
I know the moderators often get flamed when they moderate something, definitely not a good situation. However, every time I have had something rejected I deeply appreciated the one or two line emails about why. Those responses have definitely helped increase the quality of my submissions. I really really hope that the comments continue.
As for the people complaining about all the junk art that's up on there: I've been looking at wallpaper sites for many years, and the collection on this site is easily the highest quality (overall) collection I have found anywhere. Yes, the moderation process is often unfair, but that's life, deal with it. For those who complain about what DOES make it, yes, a bunch of stuff that I would have moderated makes it through, "brand names" always make it through whether or not they should based on quality, BUT look at the big picture and you will see that the vast majority are very good, don't ruin your day by grousing about the ones you don't like.
As for the people complaining about all the junk art that's up on there: I've been looking at wallpaper sites for many years, and the collection on this site is easily the highest quality (overall) collection I have found anywhere. Yes, the moderation process is often unfair, but that's life, deal with it. For those who complain about what DOES make it, yes, a bunch of stuff that I would have moderated makes it through, "brand names" always make it through whether or not they should based on quality, BUT look at the big picture and you will see that the vast majority are very good, don't ruin your day by grousing about the ones you don't like.
Novagene Lyons
Reply #57 Monday, February 3, 2003 9:29 PM
Reply #57 Monday, February 3, 2003 9:29 PM
Well, I know it wasn't me! I've only recently began uploading wallpapers, and I'm 1-for-5. I've been doing wallpapers for 7 years. I'm not hurt by rejection. But I DO APPRECIATE the rejection emails! My suggestion: Continue the rejection-slips but send them from an un-reply-able address, and make it clear that's the case.
ANd one other thing... Take the time to stress that this this is a COMMUNITY. Some folks may not have a fewkin' clue what that means, but if they stick around long enough, maybe those of us that do can show them....
ANd one other thing... Take the time to stress that this this is a COMMUNITY. Some folks may not have a fewkin' clue what that means, but if they stick around long enough, maybe those of us that do can show them....
White_Moth
Reply #58 Monday, February 3, 2003 9:31 PM
Reply #58 Monday, February 3, 2003 9:31 PM
I personally believe the wallpaper section is important to this site because, it gives those of us who are just beginning to learn how to skin an "in" and a chance to participate until we can submit skins. It gives us a way and means to "interact positively" with the best of skinners. We have skills that can be immediately incorporated, thus adding to the overall goodwill of the community.
I for one am providing some unique material in the form of wallpapers and am becoming an accepted personality to the site because of it. I have met so many people through the wallpaper section that I may not have had the opportunity to meet for some time to come. As a result I feel my own life is enriched through this interaction at the wallpaper level.
All it takes from each of us is some consideration and a little understanding to realize the resources of Wincustomize are limited. I have offered to remove my wallpapers in a timely fashion in order to give others a chance to place their own, and by voluntarily doing so makes me feel even better.
I for one am providing some unique material in the form of wallpapers and am becoming an accepted personality to the site because of it. I have met so many people through the wallpaper section that I may not have had the opportunity to meet for some time to come. As a result I feel my own life is enriched through this interaction at the wallpaper level.
All it takes from each of us is some consideration and a little understanding to realize the resources of Wincustomize are limited. I have offered to remove my wallpapers in a timely fashion in order to give others a chance to place their own, and by voluntarily doing so makes me feel even better.
Brad Edwards
Reply #59 Monday, February 3, 2003 9:37 PM
Reply #59 Monday, February 3, 2003 9:37 PM
Can someone just explain this for me? I noticed a lot of comments about the so called "ugly" skins working for certain people, and being "usable" for certain people. Is there no chance in hell that these "ugly" wallpapers that are rejected "usable" too? Maybe I just don't get it, but I guess that's just the way I look at it. I personally enjoy the website, and don't much pay attention to the wallpaper... I usually go somewhere else for it, because I like the way DevArt has their wallpaper's categorized. This site is still great, ESPECIALLY for WindowBlinds skins. Keep up the great work, and thanks for the great community.
Frogboy
Reply #60 Monday, February 3, 2003 10:29 PM
Reply #60 Monday, February 3, 2003 10:29 PM
Ultimately it boils down to one fact:
WinCustomize is a SKIN site. Hence we want skins. We tolerate wallpapers but reject most of them since we don't want many here.
WinCustomize is a SKIN site. Hence we want skins. We tolerate wallpapers but reject most of them since we don't want many here.
Please login to comment and/or vote for this skin.
Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
- Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums and downloading skins.
- Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
- Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
- It's simple, and FREE!
|
|
Page 3 of 6 | |
|
|---|
Reply #41 Monday, February 3, 2003 3:25 PM