Poll Result: Those Stardock bums!
Monday, December 23, 2002 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize News
WinCustomize users tend to have a higher percentage of Stardock customers. So that would imply that Stardock must have a pretty healthy customer satisfaction level.
On the other hand, there could be a back-lash against the seemingly rabid "I hate Stardock" people out there. In my view, I think that backlash is directed more to the underlying motives of the "Stardock is evil" crowd: Commercial software.
For the past 5 years, the "free intellectual property" crowd (or as I call them the "free beer" crowd, have been trying to demonize anyone who tries to make a living creating intellectual property.
You see this when skin authors are able to make a living this way. You see this when software developers ask for registration fees.
Amazingly, the "free beer" crowd usually quickly resorts to charging that OTHER people are greedy. Which I just find incredible. It's almost always the people who have contributed nothing whatsoever to a given community that are the first to cry "greed" when someone who has contributed for years tries to get some type of compensation.
We see that here all the time. After downloading 100 megabytes of stuff, users are actually asked to either register one of the programs they're using these skins and themes on or get a WinCustomize subscription or to start contributing skins and themes to the community. And what is the first thing they yell? How WE are greedy. I guess it's the ultimate "takes one to know one".
And that's where Stardock comes in. Because it makes commercial software (and asks for a whopping $10 to $20 on the various programs), it instantly creates an anti-Stardock crowd.
I suspect that some of these people recognize that their arguments are transparent so they tend to exagerate their position.
One popular argument I see is that Stardock basically swooped in like some Monty Burns vulture onto the "skinning scene" and began leeching off of it. As if there was this big skinning thing going on before Stardock.
In reality, Object Desktop went into beta on OS/2 in 1994. It SKINNED OS/2. It wasn't called skinning back then but that's what it was doing. When Object Desktop began being developed for Windows, skinning was a major development focus when development began in early 1997. The skinning component went into public beta in the summer of 1998.
Stardock also released the first (or one of them) system wide icon changing program in 1997 called PlusPak: Themes. In Windows that became IconPackager and it went 1.0 in 1999.
Here's a screenshot of Object Desktop on OS/2 from the mid 90s:
https://www.stardock.com/products/od20/megashot.jpg
Even back then you can see where WindowFX, WindowBlinds, ObjectZIP, ControlCenter, ObjectDock, ObjectBar, and DesktopX would come from. These concepts were vastly expanded on Windows since hardware and underlying Windows technologies matured. But the basics were already there.
But this also represents the strength of commercial software. There ARE advantages to commercial software. The same people working on WindowBlinds 4 are the same people who worked on WindowBlinds 1.0 back in 1998. That's going to be 5 years of development by the same team. And it's not light development, it's very intense. The teams that work on DesktopX and ObjectBar and IconPackager and WinStyles and ControlCenter are dedicated for the long haul and one reason for this is because they can justify spending time on it.
The problem with freeware and open source is if you're not getting paid, you really can only work on it during your free time and that becomes a problem as the program gets increasingly complicated.
After all, who wants to spend their Saturday night figuring out why there are pink bits showing up on a particular skin on Windows 98SE when they're using an Trident video card? That's not fun.
Of course, when that argument falls apart for the anti-Stardock people the other one comes up:
"Okay, sure they've been around since the beginning but their software is buggy and bloated and they charge for everything!"
None of which is true. One of the things that always pains me is the charge that WindowBlinds uses a lot of RAM. It's a totally bogus claim. It's so easy to disprove (just look at your total RAM commitment when WindowBlinds is loaded versus when you're using an msstyle -- WindowBlinds uses LESS RAM than Windows XP's own visual style does). If anything, WindowBlinds should get kudos from the "fast, efficient code crowd" because it uses so little RAM.
DesktopX is the same way. It actually suppports MEMORY COMPRESSION on the fly. It actually requires fewer resources to use DesktopX as a simple email checker or system resource meter than it is to use a stand alone specialized resource monitor or email checker (again, just load up task manager and view total RAM commitment).
Then there's the whole "Never do freeware" which again is bogus.
LogonStudio (www.logonstudio.com) is free.
XPBench (www.xpbench.com) is free
ObjectDock (www.objectdock.com) is free.
Stack n Sack (game) is free (Christmas game)
https://www.stardock.com/products/drengin/sns/
Elves Inc. (https://www.stardock.com/products/elves/)
Stellar Frontier is free (https://www.stardock.com/products/sf)
And DesktopX and CursorXP are practically free in the sense that you can use DesktopX forever and CursorXP has a freeware version.
That isn't to say there aren't plenty of legitimate reasons why someone wouldn't like Stardock. They may have had a bad software experience with Stardock. Or maybe they had trouble with one of its services. Or maybe they find my posts repulsive!
There are lots of reasons. But the ones most commonly posted about seem to be often from people who just don't like the idea of paying for intellectual property (whether that be software or music or movies) and use various methods to justify that dislike of intellectual property.Reply #22 Tuesday, December 24, 2002 4:27 PM

Paxx, yes I'm in the correct thread, I just was referring to the other poll on religion, but thanks for checking, we all know at my age what happens

Reply #23 Tuesday, December 24, 2002 6:24 PM

Reply #24 Tuesday, December 24, 2002 8:33 PM
So far as docks are concerned, well having tried them all - and ain't it strange that in such a short space of time 3 have arrived at once, just like British buses
- the one I like and prefer and use, until my iBook/Powerbook arrives mid way through 2k3, is Objectdock. Didn't take part in these polls, but if I had that is the way my vote would have gone. Of course once I get my lappy the only place I would use it is on my main rig.Until then - well it's Xmas day - time to open up my iPod and have some fun

Reply #25 Tuesday, December 24, 2002 11:11 PM
Reply #26 Wednesday, December 25, 2002 10:24 AM
As far as the paid software thing, I am a very happy ODNT subscriber. I don't believe that because a software is commercial then it will be a better product. There are some great freeware and open source programs. There are also programs that are commercial that really aren't worth the asking price. As always the cream will rise to the top. I would venture to say that Stardock is at the top of their field, thereby becoming the largest easiest target to those around.
Oh well, keep an open mind and have a happy holiday.
Reply #27 Thursday, December 26, 2002 8:20 AM

Reply #28 Thursday, December 26, 2002 9:00 AM

Reply #29 Thursday, December 26, 2002 9:23 AM
I also agree with some of the criticism of Frogboy's analysis. You just can't say "oh, 8% of people voted negative, they must be anti-commercial". They could just have had a bad experience with customer support, they could have picked randomly, or, heck, they just didn't like the skins here and assumed that it was Stardock's fault (don't laugh, someone asked for a refund because they didn't like the way skins were made by "unskilled skinners").
In the end, 92% approval is pretty good, no matter how you look at it. Be glad, and don't try to find excuses for why people voted the other way - or worse, use the results to bash people who disagree with you.
Reply #30 Thursday, December 26, 2002 9:51 AM

Reply #31 Thursday, December 26, 2002 10:04 AM

Reply #32 Thursday, December 26, 2002 11:53 AM
I specifically addressed what you said:
"That isn't to say there aren't plenty of legitimate reasons why someone wouldn't like Stardock. They may have had a bad software experience with Stardock. Or maybe they had trouble with one of its services. Or maybe they find my posts repulsive! There are lots of reasons. "

Reply #33 Thursday, December 26, 2002 12:12 PM

I do think that they're still more likely to be the reasons people are dissatisfied, though. I see a *lot* more posts on that sort of thing (rather than moaning about how OD isn't free etc), and you know that there are going to be a lot of people who don't post but still feel that way, justified or not. Like I said, did you really expect 100% satisfaction? Have you ever been dissatisfied with something just because one thing has gone wrong, even though the rest of the product might be fine?

I suspect you might see more of the "I want free software" posts because you go around promoting OD, and see the comments of people trying to find reasons not to pay. Perhaps a more specific poll ("If you don't like Stardock, why not?") would make this clearer?
Reply #34 Thursday, December 26, 2002 8:16 PM

Reply #36 Sunday, December 29, 2002 4:07 AM
and then OD because it works across all windows apps pretty much, and then Aston and I run all three at any given time. Right now Aston is up and running. I like then all, though OD is the complete package for sure.I guess it was growing up working summer doing construction and then learning to build race cars, you've got your tools, and you get what you pay for. Anyone can make use of a hand-me-down drill, or seek out the cheapest one they can find, and end up throwing them away a number of times in one year. Then again, if your serious about it, you spend the money and purchase quality because it lasts and works almost everytime. Then again when it happens to not work or down right breaks, the support is in the price you paid. Sorry but a Craftsman Ratchet that pops is replaced without question and a throw away freebee, well is just that, a throw away...
Freeware is nice, and some of it really works very well and does the exact job you need it for, many times better than those you pay for. But there is a time and a place for it as with anything.
anyway, like I said, maybe I'm just off or something.
OD, Hoverdesk and Aston are worth what you pay for them to do the job you want from them. Depends on what you need, desire and or will settle for.
yeah and ObjectDock is sweet and also plays nice with both Hoverdesk, Aston and Nextstart.
c-ya...

Reply #37 Sunday, December 29, 2002 4:50 PM

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Reply #21 Tuesday, December 24, 2002 4:15 PM
i'm atheist, but merry christmas, chichigirl and everybody, be good, peace