i for one 100% agree with you on that

It's my understanding that negative comments ARE allowed, but an orchestrated barrage of negative comments by a group of individuals who chat regularly with each other on a daily basis, especially after the skinner who created that particular skin was threatened, that exactly such a thing would happen due to a post she made, doesn't foster community; it's divisive and polarizing.

Of course, you can just pretend this post isn't here, since you've instructed me I am to no longer communicate with you. 

I don't think 'uninformed' opinion is worth the breath...whether it be for OR against.

No matter what kudos is placed upon the 'art of screenshotting' it is merely representational at best and is NOT a skin.

For all the it's-great-but-I-didn't-try-it ot it-sucks-big-time-but-I-didn't-try-it comments, for all THEY know the skin might even be a total dud...as in DOES NOT WORK.

Sure...after a decade of looking at Windowblind skins [for example] I can get a pretty good idea that... IF I DOWNLOAD IT/TRY IT it will not be 'my cup of tea'...but that is pure personal preference and has no bearing on its potential appeal/popularity [or disfavour]..

I would never have the effrontery to claim it to be good/crap/not Master standard  UNLESS I had at LEAST given it [and the Skinner] the benefit of the doubt and tested it first.

That sort of process has exactly ZERO to do with 'free speech'...but it has shit-loads to do with common courtesy and mutual respect.

No they were most certainly discouraged tho weren't they?

Barrage?  If you have some proof of some conspiracy then please provide it, There was none, please stop exaggerating. It was precisely this reason I asked you not to communicate with me because of these kinds of accusations from you in other threads, it's uncalled for and childish.

Take a moment to calm down and think clearly before levelling any more accusations please.

Friends would have been a much easier and accurate description. Or as some people like to negatively describe them .. Cliques.

This has nothing to do with the post..how quickly your own apology post has been forgotten, can we please try stay on topic instead of character assasination.

ahh yes, but there are 6 billion other opinions and ways of doing things. What you may or may not do has zero bearing on what the next guy or girl may.. or may not.

you mean what I myself was not afforded? [see beggining of post and corresponding link]

John...is this [only] about you or was/is it supposed to be a general discussion?...

Both.... but if it was only about me.. is that a bad thing too?

getting my drift?

I can almost  already name everyone who will show up here and what they will say.

Already looks like it's going nowhere.

Congrats

Semantics.

Does anyone have anything sensible to say regarding the extensive amount of the post that dealt with the main issue?

Since day one it has been acceptable to post both/either positive or negative comments on a skin upload.

There has always been one 'ideal' proviso...and that was that IF the comment was negative it was seen as constructive [and beneficial] to perhaps provide some advice/details/reasons.  [positive comments don't typically need justification [though I do remember  the odd "Nice" that got up people's noses]].

The two most common reasons a person is removed from Stardock's sites are... [drive-by spammers [ya gotta love Nike runners]] and abusive/insulting comments [some of those have been quite colourful], but someone posting "I really don't like this." will be quite safe from exile/removal.

As people develop a history on the site/in skinning, and are perhaps revered by their peers then what they say [or simply infer] can have a lot more 'weight' attributed to it.

Not everyone is as tactfull as most would like, unfortunately, so if, say, a Master skinner were to comment [on a skin] "This is crap".... there will be quite a lot of people who will think "wow, it MUST be crap, cos Master 'X' said so".

It is PARTICULARLY the Masters of this community that really need to help explain their opinion/condemnation with supporting detail and let's face it...they REALLY SHOULD test it...even open the archive and rummage through it internally...before weighing in with a ham-fisted denouncement...

Did any Masters comment? This wasn't anything to do with Masters.. this was about allcomers.

and..

You have yet to weigh in on the part of the post that does pertain.. to me. Is it somehow ok for admin to participate in a drive by? It wasn't the first time.

Not a very good example was it.

The post was intended to put forth some suggestions and ideas about how to imporve the site, how to improve the work of both up and coming skinners and seasoned ones.

Do you honestly think after staying here day in , day out, nights too for the past 4 years helping in anyway I could that I would make a post like this without sincerely being interested in the betterment of the site for all?

Cmon.

Is anyone in the least interested in this or shall we just all bash each others heads in?

John...I am at least talking generally, and not allowing yet another thread to become some personal crusade by whomever against whomever else.

You asked for constructive discussion...I'm giving it.

Fine, damage control implemented, you have no opinion on that. I didnt expect it. I'll live.

Now, on with the debate eh.

No Admin HAS 'participated in a drive-by'.  Last I recall, the only Admins to recently comment anywhere on the site were/are myself, Island Dog, Zubaz, Karmagirl and Frogboy...

Knew that was coming... Mod.. exuuuse me

Hey...I have LOTS of opinions.....and all of them my own...

I'm opinionated...

lol... Public opinion... should I go back and ammned?

Should I just get on IRC?

 I think everyone else is sleeping

I agree with this.

Present.

I don't dispute this. I am surprised when folks with more experience, accomplishment, talent, and 'influence' voice their opinions recklessly. By that, I mean not explaining their 'It sucks' or "Isn't of a certain quality'.  That would be my personal opinion of 'recklessly'.People are going to voice there opinions any way they want and to try and set restrictions would be akin to censorship. If they are to have the freedom to voice their opinions, others should have the freedom to respond. As others have pointed out, there are those who just don't know what the f**k they are talking about. Any one who has been around long enough knows or can tell who they are when they comment and knows to ignore them.

Question: Your post refers to a forum thread where a off-handed(?) critique was given. Isn't that why you posted it there as a WIP? To get some feedback?

As for what is said in the gallery's and your suggestion for an option to accept advanced critiques...I think it has the potential to create more problems. It would lable the skinners and divide them. And in the end, who's skin is 'that' thick. Honestly, as much as I disagree with the way some folks post their comments, if you can't take the good with the bad, then don't post the work to begin with.

I maybe way off center here because comments on a skinners work do provide at times usefull feedback. 

Unfortunately though comments of the nature that have happened recently don't serve any other purpose but to feed others to do nothing but copy and pile on.  Comments and Ratings have been a discussion in the forums numerous times in the past five years of my being a member of the community.

So what to do?  Do away with comments and ratings completely?  That doens't sound like much of a fix or something that helps a community. 

A lot of skinners have been posting threads about a WIP (Work in Progress) where they openly ask for comments.  Not sure how the comments are going there.  Should every skinner have to do a WIP thread?  That doesn't sound like a fix either.

Again, do away with comments?  I don't like that idea. 

Why do the comments have to be public?  It seems that is the major problem right now, public comments.  Change the comments system to where you can still leave one but they go to the skinner as a PM and others don't get to read them.  Probably could be done, anyone ready to ask Stardock to make that change?  I don't think we will get any volunteers for that.

So what options are we left with?  

We could just learn to live with the opinions and comments of others.  Yes, some folks can really be rude and down right mean.  As they say in the real world, that's life.

I didn't touch on the free speech issue, why, well folks at times seem to use that way too much.  We all do have the right to free speech, our opinions and the freedom to comment when asked, but there is a line there that at times gets ignored and stepped over.  Free speech does not and was never meant to allow anyone to be rude, mean, inpolite or just down right nasty. 

So what's the answer, we could all, myself included, try to be more caring and civilized when commenting, yeah, like that is ever going to happen.

I just remembered one other thing about free speech, it has and will continue to allow folks to open thier mouth and remove all doubt as to thier intelligence.  That's a joke son, laugh it up.

This reply was not addreseed at anyone and is just my take on what has happen in the past couple of days. 

Stating opinions is something we all do in every realm of life.

It happened to me today. Somebody stopped me and asked me a question, but I needed to get to where I was going, and if I delayed too much, I would have been late. Well, he told me what he thought... and I just smiled and went on.

I had to take into account that he did not fully understand my scenario. Not even close. He had an opinion based upon a significant bias and lack of understanding. But I still like the guy.

I have received comments on skins from time to time that I can tell are based upon a lack of understanding as to why I came up with a certain design. It is certainly within that person's right to state what he thinks; but certain comments I just take with a grain of salt.

Others have been where I am, and have achieved a level of excellence that I wish to achieve. So then, even if comments from those people seem to be rooted in a lack of understanding at the first, I usually find later that their understanding is far greater than I realized. Hence their level of excellence compared to mine.

2 Masters in particular (Z71 & vStyler) have been very blunt with me concerning my skinning. I am convinced that both have my best interest in mind, so I tend to listen, even when I don't understand; for perhaps I will understand later.

IMO, everyone has the right to tell me that my skin stinks. Someone once commented on one of my WB's, and all they said was that it "wasn't their cup of tea." Well, that's their right. They didn't qualify it. I also haven't seen them around before or since. So certain comments/commenters are taken by me with a grain of salt.

Others carry more weight and influence.

It can be hard to tell the tone of one's comments online sometimes. That's why smiley's help. I think people tend to get offended far too quickly, and far too easily. After all, in the end we're all supposed to be skinning for ourselves, right? So, in the end, if I as the creator like it, who really cares what everyone else thinks?