Nimbin, me old mate....we're gonna have to listen to Tailsgirl re debates over Capital Punishment....but I'm sure some 'clever' brief would argue the perps of 9/11 were 'mentally ill' and thus innocent.  I actually don't consider 'diminished responsibility' as grounds for any form of leniency at all.

I'm sure Julien Knight was/is mentally screwed too....but his victims don't care...they are just as dead either way.

Too much 'gosh and gee' and teeth-sucking is done over those poor deranged/misguided rapists/killers/etc and no-one gives a toss about victim impact.

Thing 'dead'....then keep thinking 'dead'....for a real long time.  That's what the victims have as life-experience.

Constant and repeated buggering by fellow inmates of the penal system may be 'cute' but many will argue it is better than dead.

Punishment is not fair and equitable.

It never will be....even with bleeding hearts crying for Law Reform.

Just like Alice's Restaurant.....

"and Obie stood up with the twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy
pictures, and the judge walked in sat down with a seeing eye dog, and he
sat down, we sat down. Obie looked at the seeing eye dog, and then at the
twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with circles and arrows
and a paragraph on the back of each one, and looked at the seeing eye dog.
And then at twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with circles
and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one and began to cry,
'cause Obie came to the realization that it was a typical case of American
blind justice,...."

In Victoria, arson carries a jail term of two to 15 years, and 25 years if there's loss of life.

I was trying to point out that if we assume we have no right to exeecute someone, where then do we get the right to incarcerate them? Each plays "God" so to speak.

Actually Doc, I fully support capital punishment. I believe it's no different from defending yourself or your family. As far as I'm concerned that's an inaleinable right. For me it's not the punishment...it's eliminating any chance of a repeat or escape, eliminating the negative influence the person may have on others (like rehabilitatable prisoners) and removing any possibility of procreation and removing them from the public awareness. So many have fan clubs, get married and write books from prison it's pathetic.

Doesn't mean I think ALL murderers should be executed......many murders are spontaneous acts of rage and life in prison is a suitable punishment. Someone like Jeffery Dahmer requires extermination. How "right" is it to put someone arrested for drug possesion or car theft into the same living space as Dahmer or someone like him?

You want to talk senseless tragedy?.. one word.. ---> Hiroshima.

You thought incorrectly: A Physician's Oath has no such proviso in it.

Secondly, those scum are not my patients, nor does any physician-patient relationship exist.

They are criminals deserving punishment. In this case, execution.

That's just your opinion.. as already stated, it's a pointless debate.. nobody is going to change the folks' minds who are not into killing, to come around to your way of thinking, and vice versa.

Refresher course --> Hippocratic Oath

It does mention to never 'intenionally' harm anyone.

Unless it's different here.

The claimed 'justification' was the prompt/subsequent ending of hostilities aka WW2.

Meanwhile the English did their 'experimentation' with Nuclear weapons on Australian soil....whilst the French preferred to just dirty up the Pacific....well away from THEIR homeland.

Whether it's Hiroshima, Marilinga or the Bikini Attol ....none of it was REALLY necessary.

I know Jafo.. all of that violence was senseless.. we should be moving forwards.. instead of going back to Barbaric times, but each to his/her opinion.

If it should turn out to be islam terrorists who did this, it's nothing but calculated pure evil made in the name of Allah. Then it's nothing but pure hate agains democracy and has little to do with mental disorder.

If it's "only" arsonists, I truly doubt this was made by only one insane person. Then it's a planned action as well by a group of people and should therefore be considered to be the same act as a terrorist attack against a society and civilians. Hitler was also insane but I doubt that anyone would think that putting him behind bars and give him treatment for mental disorder would have been successful and a fair punishment.

This is a great tragedy for the Australians and I sincerely hope that they catch those whoever caused this. Therefore, I totally agree with you - "The victims of crime ALWAYS have a greater right to life than those who will deny them."

"Kingslake, Australia (CNN) Two men were arrested Thursday in connection with the wildfires that have swept through southeastern Australia killing as many as 300 people. Victoria State Police told CNN the two suspects, who had been taken into custody and were "assisting" police earlier, had been behaving suspiciously in or near Marysville, a small village where roughly 100 people have died in the fires. It was not immediately clear what the behavior was or what charges the men may face. Firefighters have battled blazes since Saturday including several new fires that broke out Tuesday night and which officials says almost certainly were the result of arson.John Brumby, the premier of the hard-hit state of Victoria, said many of 20 fires burning Wednesday were suspected to have been started by arsonists, an act described earlier as mass-murder. There seems little doubt these were deliberately lit - a number of them last night - Brumby said on national television."

Nobody has right to torment God's creatures.. Why would u torment criminals by putting them in jail.

Why would you eat meat. Why would you eat plants and prey mosquitoes.

Since God is not here to make the law, people will have to frame some dos and donts and punishments. I see no reasons on why punishments should not be harsh on criminals. After all, they are theatening civilisations. In past few years 4 of worlds large forests have been destroyed. What if we had no jungles in future..

Its not easy to check all this but its the time now the whole world will have to think and unite to abolish terrorism. At the same time we will have to make people in those areas to understand that its necessary..

We have progressed this so far and let us protect our progress. Maya, Inca, Mohanjodro ... there were so many human civilisations destroyed. No one knows why?

Please dont associate terrorism with Islam.

Perhaps God was hoping we'd have the intelligence to progress.. to not repeat past mistakes, to have matured and to see that taking a life is wrong, no matter who does it...

Sorry God, looks like ya failed.

Honestly, this will go nowhere, trying to change a person's mind here, is like talking to styrofoam, it just ain't gonna happen.. so back to the topic, we should keep our thought's with those who need them, instead of something good [the thought behind this topic] turning into a warmonger's fest.

Those two suspects were released without charges being laid..........

The Hippocratic oath intends that to mean not to harm a patient, and by extension, in America physicians are barred by their state medical ass'ns from participating in an execution.

That does not extend to not being allowed to have one's own opinions and feelings about the death penalty, or by extension laws regarding the use of deadly force in self defence.

Arguments about this are pointless and tend to entrench one deeper in one's own opinion.

As you said earlier, "Let's agree to disagree".

Each of us is free to hold his or her opinion, and that's as it should be...and those should be addressed respectfully.

Incidentally, in Israel physicians take the Oath of the Hebrew Physician which like all Oaths has varied through the centuries.

Hope you're not in any danger.

I could give you a good reply to your comment, but I don't want to start a political discussion about terrorism in this thread. I rest my case until I see such a thread.

Doc.. if you re-read my last few posts, I'm the one who said we are each entitled to our own opinion, and that it was futile to try and change other people's opinion's to match your own.

PS.. I'm not in any danger yet.. only from my Doctor.

Though a town not far from us is basically off the map now.. damnit.. nice place too.

Moving along now...

Let's keep politics and religion out of the discussion.

The two guys arrested were released.  Even suggestions of looting are media speculation and there's no actual basis.

It appears two fires are 'suspicious' [that's cop-speak for 'deliberate'].

Last I heard there are still 23 going....over 1000 houses razed.... a couple of towns no longer exist except in name/memory.

Wildlife losses are simply listed as 'millions'.

I have no desire or intention to pay for anyone to sit safely in a jail while I grieve for family members or friends while I'm out busting my ass at a job with health problems to pay for some worthless piece of crap to sit in a cell. Bullets are cheaper! End of story!

And the offender condemed himself to death the day he took anothers life.

No offense....but people of Islam already did that and continue doing it by they're actions.

"Your actions speak so loudly, that I cannot hear a word your saying" 

Now...I'm not going to go around giving people of islam a hard time...but they will also get no trust or respect from me until they start taking a more active roll in ending when they're fellow islamist started.

WebGizmos....the request is to leave politics and religion out of this thread.

Let's respect that.

Any more news?

Not a great deal....the wind's now an easterly so the smoke's heading towards Melbourne....so people with respiratory problems will suffer a bit.

It's unlikely the fires will be under control before the next weather-related flare-up.