Gizmos you have a good point about our government but most of this is part of a rich group of illuminatiy who are privilaged and have the money to back it up. Now the problem is that the people don't rise up and ask for a cleansing of the system to get rid of the tainted and dirty people on the inside. We have grown to big for our own good. We the people need to take some control and demand answers.

Messiah has the right idea. I am an atheist and a bit of a buddist so I am not saying my views are right or wrong but when you go so far as to kill yourself because you believe that my religious belief or the way I live my life is wrong or immoral then you have MAJOR MENTAL PROBLEMS. You can't tell me how to live my life and you can't stop me from doing what I want. I don't follow the views or teaching of some higher power, or invisible person "GOD", or some stories about a hippie who came to earth and did some random garbage. The stories in the Bible, The Tora, The Talmud, and The Koran and just that; Stories. They are fables. Stories that have been exaggerated over time after being told so many times that the people have gained magical powers or did extrodinary things. The reality is you live the life in the morals, values, and ideas we have learned about in our own life times. Thats why many of us are shocked when people are arrested and convicted of out of norm crime and such. They see life a different way and tested the morals of others. Technically the idea of "God" has only been around for about a few thousand years. Where was he when the dinosaurs were around. Where is the proof that he is real. Coincidences and luck don't constitute god.

Islam can't force an entire civilization of people to change the way they live because they don't agree with it. Most of the world does not like the US because they don't like the way our leaders are diong things, the way we live our lifes, or any other reasons. they can't stop the way we live because its the way we live. Acceptance needs to be embraced before the world can stop fighting. The US is the test tube in the world for people from all cultures to live together and get along. All the other countries and religions are sideline people yelling at the players like parents at a soccer game. Lets handle the violence and issues in our country to bring some unity and prove to the world that we get together in the test tube first before we go outside the box and take action against a much bigger problem.

Unfortunately, Benny was on Bennies when he wrote it.

"Large fleas have smaller fleas that sit on their backs and bite them. The smaller fleas have smaller fleas and so on ad infinitum."

 

(I thought I was done here but....)

Islam doesn't force anything, it's just another religion... Extremists are people who get so used to fighting they don't know any other life... Look back at the christian crusades, it's basically the same thing but it was more widely accepted...

 

Actually I believe he meant that the topic/Hamas(?) nauseates him.

I just had to change because of you. That was unbelievably funny!

You forgot the "in my humble opinion". 

What you wrote was offensive to people who live their lives by those 'fables'.

You might even have a "Fatwah" on the way....be careful of those folks,  JukEboXAuDiO.

I have requested  the reference/URL for the films chris ihao states he saw in a pm.

When he produces them I shall forward them to the Adjutant General of The IDF.

I have a feeling, though that either these "films" were propaganda or produced by someone else (ie Hamas).

I follow Israeli Papers very closely and have seen nothing of the kind in them, and this would have appeared.

Another difference between Israel and it's neighbors.

Is there more to that remark than just a change to a totally unexpected topic? I found it funny, but not so much as to be "unbelievable".

Not much by way of intellect, then. If you dislike what leaders are doing...then protest that ... don't dislike an enntire country!

That has been a large part of this thread, also.

vStyler and others have repeatedly had to say the following:

We are objecting to Hamas, terrorists, anyone who feels entitled to kill other people because they feel like it, hate them, hate their religion...etc. 

Israelis don't want to kill Arabs or Muslims. They want to live in peace without rocket attacks, suicide murderers blowing themselves up or the threat of these things.

That is the purpose of the current action in Gaza. To stop the Terrorists. All they have to do is disavow violence and recognize Israel's right to exist peacefully.

They aren't willing to do that.

Fine. Then be killed. 

Get it?

Tell me again when Israel's right to exist peacefully was decided, and who decided that? Where is the rest of the middle easts rights to exist peacefully?

This is an issue that goes way beyond individual morale. It's easy to say that "if noone fights, there is no war"... But that's not the american way... Just look at the way you rate movies... A nude human is considered more wrong than scenes of mass killing... Seriously... I'm in no way religious, but the words "Let He Who Has No Sin Throw the First Stone" comes to mind....

 

I just knew you were asking about the sources for the clips to call me a "phony", so I'll bring my response here instead of doing it in pm:

"Ok. I'll see if I find them. The clip with the kids having their limbs knocked out of place I saw ages ago, and the clip with the kid with father also was quite some time ago. I sincerely hope you do believe me though, as I would never make up stuff like this to put forth an argument.

I found some stills from the clip with the kid and father: http://www.thewe.cc/thewei/images2/atrocities_files/fathershieldsson.jpg,  http://www.thewe.cc/thewei/images2/atrocities_files/fatherlooksforsafeexit.jpg, http://www.thewe.cc/thewei/images2/atrocities_files/fathershottoo.jpg. This site obviously is VERY biased, and I wouldnt trust half of whats written there. Still, if the second half is true that would be more than enough for me.

Obviously these stills could easily be manipulated. I have seen this clip in its entirety though, and it looked pretty authentic to me. How the bodies move wierdly from the impact of the shots and so on. I also feel that the expression of the kid looks pretty authentic, but you never know. Its pretty horrible to watch, even in pictures, for me. I guess its the same for you.

To be honest, just from remembrance I cant confirm that the father/kid getting shot is real. The other clip though I just KNOW, and then I state KNOW is real, because you get to see it all play out over some time. They were responding to kids throwing rocks at a israeli vehicle by removing their ability to throw any more stones for probably years to come by destroying body parts.

I hope you do know that these type of things have been reported repeatedly. There even was some israeli soldiers who started a campain, because of all the atrocities they were a part of while serving. An example of this: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/415302.cms. So why you of all people decide to defend the actions of the israeli army I just cannot get. At least vStyle says that he's not particulary a fan of the Israeli actions.

Seriously, reporting these incidents to the Adjutant General  of the israeli army would do nothing, but do whatever please you."

Well, that was the PM. I have to ask though. Do you seriously think that israeli papers is the best source for news about Israeli atrocoties? That baffled me a bit.

Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamoked. Here, Israels "broken bones" policy in the first first intifada is mentioned. My guess is that the clip I saw several years ago was from that period. Still looking, though I really do not want to see this clip again. Its nice to see how there are humanitarian groups IN Israel that actually work for the palestines human rights. I guess THEY know whats happening there. I also know several jews from personal experience, and they were swell guys. Its the israelan states actions that make no sense to me.

Your a good man Doc but they can't be anymore offended than an Athiest that has to live with a system shaped and molded with religous foundations. Holy christ on a cracker, we are going through a depression, shutting the system down on Sundays is just stupid.

I'm just saying that religous people are quick to cry Waaaaaaaaaaa yet do not care that they continuously offend Athiests in everything they do.

 

Peace bro.

I thought I wrote that Its my opinion before i typed that. I don't care if it offended people who lived by those fables. Many of them believe that jesus will show them the way. THIS IS MY OPINION. Jesus isn't showing you how to live your life. Noone is. You are. You do what needs to be done to continue on. YOu have read stories to give you hope and maybe some guidance but not what to do in a pinch. Its exasperated by television and movies preaching miracles and such. Life isn't perfect like that. We are all lost in what we think it should be like but its not. Wake up.

Needless to say your pictures showed exactly nothing.

Your post is an attempt to provoke...so I won't give you that pleasure.

It is enough that you proved that no such footage was in your hands.

"I sincerely hope you do believe me though, as I would never make up stuff like this to put forth an argument." 

I think you're FOS. If you had the clips you would have submitted them.

Instead you have 3 pictures...and they might have been shot by Hamas. In fact, probably were.

There was no trick as you put it on my part. Just a lie or total gullibility on yours.

You obviously think I'm a fool, so Adios, amigo. Peddle your BS elsewhere.

 Oh yes, the site you pm'd me is a Hamas site...you really are gullible.

Do these Isaeli papers have Palestinian reporters working for them?  Are the owners of the paper free of bias?  Are you sure you aren't getting your own dose of propaganda by following the Israeli papers?

I'm not saying that the papers intentionally lie.  I've done a lot of reading on the neuroscience of belief and perception.  We truly do see what we want to see and totally miss what we don't want to see.  Some of us have natures that are more willing to accept what we would rather not see (the neuroscientific differences between the liberal brain and the conservative brain is fascinating), but we ALL perceive in a way that glorifies our self. 

http://www.livescience.com/health/060515_why_lie.html

David Dunning of Cornell University has done many studies on how it is we perceive what we do.  You can read his study and the results here:  http://research.chicagogsb.edu/cdr/docs/dunning.pdf

One has to be very careful about getting the whole picture, listening to both sides, when making expansive judgments about certain groups of people.  I am pretty sure there are some nasty people involved with Hamas.  I am also pretty sure that there are some Israelis who aren't as honorable as you would like to believe they are.

but we ALL perceive in a way that glorifies our self.

needed to be repeated.

Chris, are you sure what you saw in the clip was TRUTH, or theatrics.  Check out this site, which breaks down that clip and poses some very interesting questions: http://www.seconddraft.org/selections.php?theme=5takes

This is why I said I don't want to get involved and I have stuff on my own plate to deal with.  ALL of these terrorist/victim/right/wrong conflicts taking place across the seas...I'm not there!  All I can do is listen and watch what each side says happened and since I wasn't there, I'm vulnerable to whatever theatrical drama they want to entertain me with.  I can't even believe my OWN eyes, with stuff I see right in front of me.  How am I suppose to judge whatever little selective bit of video and accompanying story is actual truth.  And then the more I think about it, I end up going into a total existential funk and question the very nature of truth...and this is without the benefits of "the plant"!!! 


I've been told I think too much.

I prefer to go with my gut, I feel im a good judge of what I see.  When evil is visible, I see it.. no matter what side it is on. Coverage of both sides of the issue is everywhere 24/7 these days, I just happen to come down on the side I believe doesn't want to destroy civilization as we know it.

Tell you what though, if anyone out there thinks the west or anyone else is doing as much to further terror and destruction on this planet than the radical ismlamic movement they need their head examined.

You obviously have no experience with Israeli papers.

There's a big difference between that and slaughtering people wantonly and deliberately.

 

In my hands? I cant believe I'm reading this comment coming from a grown man like yourself. You think I'm a collector or clips of human suffering and death or what? I am honestly saying that I believe at least one of these clips are real, yet you call it BS. Now you are openly aiming to insult me. I came here to offer my apoligies for the way I spoke yesterday, also to you, yet you spit on them like they are trash. I also told you several times the mentioned site isn't very trustworthy, but that does not keep you from going on and on and on about that they MUST be false and that I am spreading BS. Are you all knowing God now all of the sudden? Have you seen all that is to see around the world? Must be special. Btw, why cant ANYTHING reported on arab or muslim sites be true? This tells a lot about you.

Why do you not mention the other links by the way? The part about israeli soldiers campaining agains Isralei military operations for instance? You have NOTHING to add? You run around policing this thread like its your own, and support even more respected members unconditionally without adding anything at all.

You say: "You obviously think I'm a fool" Yes, now I KNOW you are a fool, judging from this last comment of yours. And good riddance. I'm out of here.