So.....you have no health care?
Then you need to visit this site!
Sunday, July 13, 2008 by WebGizmos | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
This is a site you need to visit to find out when this group will be visiting your area.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/28/60minutes/main3889496.shtml
"Recently, 60 Minutes heard about an American relief organization that airdrops doctors and medicine into the jungles of the Amazon. It's called Remote Area Medical, or "RAM" for short.
As correspondent Scott Pelley first reported last March, Remote Area Medical sets up emergency clinics where the needs are greatest. But these days that's not the Amazon. This charity founded to help people who can't reach medical care finds itself throwing America a lifeline.
In a matter of hours, Remote Area Medical set up its massive clinic, for a weekend, in an exhibit hall in Knoxville, Tenn. Tools for dentists were laid out by the yard, optometrists prepared to make hundreds of pairs of glasses, general medical doctors set up for whatever might come though the door. Nearly everything is donated, and everyone is a volunteer. The care is free. But no one could say how many patients might show up."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/28/60minutes/main3889496.shtml
"Recently, 60 Minutes heard about an American relief organization that airdrops doctors and medicine into the jungles of the Amazon. It's called Remote Area Medical, or "RAM" for short.
As correspondent Scott Pelley first reported last March, Remote Area Medical sets up emergency clinics where the needs are greatest. But these days that's not the Amazon. This charity founded to help people who can't reach medical care finds itself throwing America a lifeline.
In a matter of hours, Remote Area Medical set up its massive clinic, for a weekend, in an exhibit hall in Knoxville, Tenn. Tools for dentists were laid out by the yard, optometrists prepared to make hundreds of pairs of glasses, general medical doctors set up for whatever might come though the door. Nearly everything is donated, and everyone is a volunteer. The care is free. But no one could say how many patients might show up."
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LightStar
Reply #42 Tuesday, July 15, 2008 6:14 PM
Reply #42 Tuesday, July 15, 2008 6:14 PM
Definitely a good read, and starkers, I don't think anyone here in the US would disagree with you, you are absolutely correct.
starkers
Reply #43 Tuesday, July 15, 2008 11:35 PM
Sadly, there is a number of people who do disagree with me: saying things like, "health care should not be in the hands of government... because government is corrupt and couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery." How weird, you'll trust your government with squillions of dollars to wage war in Iraq, but not tuppence to ensure affordable medical care?
And it is precisely this kind of attitude that allows health care costs to skyrocket and health industry big-wigs to thrive in luxury, thus putting medical attention out of the reach of low income earners and the poor, even increasing numbers of the wealthy... because health care professionals and insurance companies know that the inherent distrust of government means there is no alternative and they must get paid. The problem with that is that they then can charge what they like... and when people at the lower end of the socio-economic scale drop off because they can no longer afford it, they greedily jack up their prices even more to compensate the loss of earnings... thus putting a visit to the doctor out of reach for even more people.
Whatever happened to the reasoning that it's easier to get one dollar from a million people than it is to gt a million dollars from one person???
OK, so governments have their failings, but many countries have government funded health care systems that provide workable 'universal' health care to the masses, so why not in the US???? Oh, that's right: "We don't like 'old world' ways and don't trust government to manage our money!" Well if you keep putting your trust in greedy, profit motivated insurance companies to run your health care then you ain't gonna have any fucking money... or access to a doctor/hospital when you need it.
Yup, maybe the Boston Tea Party signaled something rather more ominous than just telling 'mother' England to stuff it, "we don't need your steenkin' tea". The founding fathers may have wanted a fresh new start, nothing wrong with that, but in rejecting all that was 'old world', they effectively rejected tried and trusted methods and threw the baby out with the bath water... and now some of the worst US ways are being exported worldwide, like exorbitantly priced health insurance to OZ. Now we had a pretty good health care system prior to all that, so to go back to something tried and trusted, maybe we need to throw our own 'Boston' and toss all those insurance policies in Sydney Harbour.
***Oh, and the you here refers to no-one in particular, OK***
Reply #43 Tuesday, July 15, 2008 11:35 PM
Definitely a good read, and starkers, I don't think anyone here in the US would disagree with you, you are absolutely correct.
Sadly, there is a number of people who do disagree with me: saying things like, "health care should not be in the hands of government... because government is corrupt and couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery." How weird, you'll trust your government with squillions of dollars to wage war in Iraq, but not tuppence to ensure affordable medical care?
And it is precisely this kind of attitude that allows health care costs to skyrocket and health industry big-wigs to thrive in luxury, thus putting medical attention out of the reach of low income earners and the poor, even increasing numbers of the wealthy... because health care professionals and insurance companies know that the inherent distrust of government means there is no alternative and they must get paid. The problem with that is that they then can charge what they like... and when people at the lower end of the socio-economic scale drop off because they can no longer afford it, they greedily jack up their prices even more to compensate the loss of earnings... thus putting a visit to the doctor out of reach for even more people.
Whatever happened to the reasoning that it's easier to get one dollar from a million people than it is to gt a million dollars from one person???
OK, so governments have their failings, but many countries have government funded health care systems that provide workable 'universal' health care to the masses, so why not in the US???? Oh, that's right: "We don't like 'old world' ways and don't trust government to manage our money!" Well if you keep putting your trust in greedy, profit motivated insurance companies to run your health care then you ain't gonna have any fucking money... or access to a doctor/hospital when you need it.
Yup, maybe the Boston Tea Party signaled something rather more ominous than just telling 'mother' England to stuff it, "we don't need your steenkin' tea". The founding fathers may have wanted a fresh new start, nothing wrong with that, but in rejecting all that was 'old world', they effectively rejected tried and trusted methods and threw the baby out with the bath water... and now some of the worst US ways are being exported worldwide, like exorbitantly priced health insurance to OZ. Now we had a pretty good health care system prior to all that, so to go back to something tried and trusted, maybe we need to throw our own 'Boston' and toss all those insurance policies in Sydney Harbour.
***Oh, and the you here refers to no-one in particular, OK***
eieio
Reply #44 Tuesday, July 15, 2008 11:42 PM
The question is ... how many people think they are doing a good job of it?
I think most people will agree that, in it's present form, the US Government is one of the, if not the, most inefficient organizations in the US if not the world.
Put it this way; if the US Government were a private company, they would have gone under many years ago or else have been jailed for malfeasance!
Reply #44 Tuesday, July 15, 2008 11:42 PM
you'll trust your government with squillions of dollars to wage war in Iraq
The question is ... how many people think they are doing a good job of it?
I think most people will agree that, in it's present form, the US Government is one of the, if not the, most inefficient organizations in the US if not the world.
Put it this way; if the US Government were a private company, they would have gone under many years ago or else have been jailed for malfeasance!
Bebi Bulma
Reply #45 Wednesday, July 16, 2008 12:14 AM
Ironically enough, the US government is the longest standing government in the world (over 200 years now) so it must be doing *something* right.
Reply #45 Wednesday, July 16, 2008 12:14 AM
you'll trust your government with squillions of dollars to wage war in IraqThe question is ... how many people think they are doing a good job of it? I think most people will agree that, in it's present form, the US Government is one of the, if not the, most inefficient organizations in the US if not the world.Put it this way; if the US Government were a private company, they would have gone under many years ago or else have been jailed for malfeasance!
Ironically enough, the US government is the longest standing government in the world (over 200 years now) so it must be doing *something* right.
zakai1369
Reply #46 Wednesday, July 16, 2008 2:00 AM
That "something right" was convincing people long ago to give over so much control of their lives to the government itself.
A country which started on a noble idea of freedom and has since been turned into a society forced into following the rules made up by the "select" few who work their way into positions of power. A country that is supposed to be governed by people who are looking out for the interests of all but ends up being run by some(not all) lowlifes no better than the drug dealers, pedophiles, and killers on the streets.
And back to the original topic of health care who knows whether the government would do a better job(probably not) of running it if we turned over to a system that seems to work well for many other countries. But as far as funding for it meaning higher taxes, I'm sure that would end up being the case but unnecessarily so. If our government would stop ridiculous spending of the taxes they collect now, many things would be in better shape.
Just a quick example.
I appreciate the things the men and women of the military do for the rest of us just as much as many others do. But how many of you ordinary citizens out there get paid to move your own stuff?
My sister , the wife of an army soldier, just recently moved from one home to another within a 15 minute drive of each other. Now I can understand having your moving paid for when done professionally as an added part of your pay. But how necessary is it that if you choose to move your own stuff you get paid by the pound for doing it? She only ended up getting to the weigh station with one UHaul load of stuff they were moving and for that ended up getting a check for around $2400.
Nothing against the men and women who serve the military but just an example of ridiculous spending by our government as far as I'm concerned.
Reply #46 Wednesday, July 16, 2008 2:00 AM
Ironically enough, the US government is the longest standing government in the world (over 200 years now) so it must be doing *something* right.
That "something right" was convincing people long ago to give over so much control of their lives to the government itself.
A country which started on a noble idea of freedom and has since been turned into a society forced into following the rules made up by the "select" few who work their way into positions of power. A country that is supposed to be governed by people who are looking out for the interests of all but ends up being run by some(not all) lowlifes no better than the drug dealers, pedophiles, and killers on the streets.
And back to the original topic of health care who knows whether the government would do a better job(probably not) of running it if we turned over to a system that seems to work well for many other countries. But as far as funding for it meaning higher taxes, I'm sure that would end up being the case but unnecessarily so. If our government would stop ridiculous spending of the taxes they collect now, many things would be in better shape.
Just a quick example.
I appreciate the things the men and women of the military do for the rest of us just as much as many others do. But how many of you ordinary citizens out there get paid to move your own stuff?
My sister , the wife of an army soldier, just recently moved from one home to another within a 15 minute drive of each other. Now I can understand having your moving paid for when done professionally as an added part of your pay. But how necessary is it that if you choose to move your own stuff you get paid by the pound for doing it? She only ended up getting to the weigh station with one UHaul load of stuff they were moving and for that ended up getting a check for around $2400.
Nothing against the men and women who serve the military but just an example of ridiculous spending by our government as far as I'm concerned.
starkers
Reply #47 Wednesday, July 16, 2008 3:51 AM
I think a lot of people around the world believe this of their government - and in many cases, most politicians couldn't find their arse with both hands and a map giving directions - but all in all (take out the rogue governments), in the Western World, they're not doing too bad a job at trying to keep the majority, housed, fed and alive. OK, there are some exceptions and some people fall through the cracks, particularly in poorer sectors of the community, but for the most part our standards of living have improved over the last 50 years or so.
However, standards of living could be so much better if governments didn't have to court/bow down to large corporate entities to stay in office... perhaps then there would be a fairer distribution of wealth and wages that allow people to 'really' live rather than just keeping their heads above water. Yes, governments are too often manipulated and controlled by the corporate world... and much economic 'reform' is geared towards keeping these big movers and shakers happy, meaning that the 'small' man is too frequently given little or no consideration and is left behind in a trail of poor governmental decisions and has to fend for himself on peanuts.
Sure we need large corporations to generate goods and services... jobs, but the corporate world also needs a happy, healthy and able to pay consumer base to survive... and this is why governments need to do more to protect the small man as well... because without a healthy happy workforce/consumer base, the economy goes down the shit chute along with the corporations. Simple economics, really, but far too many corporate entities neglect to consider the well-being and propensity of customers/would-be customers to pay and thus go broke or move their operations offshore to maximise profits via cheap labour, thus reducing the ability of their own domestic market to pay... not that they care too much. There's export markets to saturate - until they can absorb/pay no more - "but what the heck", they say: "I'm here for a good time, not a long time!"
So! If the small man is struggling to put food on the table, clothes on his back and enough fuel in the tank to get to work, then it's likely that health cover is on the back burner or foregone entirely... meaning that somebody has to pick up the health care slack if there's to be a healthy workforce/consumer base... because, at the end of the day, rank and file workers are the backbone of any economy/corporate entity. Without them there are no rich fat bastards getting fatter off their efforts.
Me thinks Oliver Cromwell would have something to say about that... being he was first elected to the English Parliament in 1628... but: "The origins of Parliament go back to the 12th century," and "By the 14th century two distinct Houses, the Commons and the Lords, had developed." WWW Link ... so um, when did the US gov't actually form???
Reply #47 Wednesday, July 16, 2008 3:51 AM
I think most people will agree that, in it's present form, the US Government is one of the, if not the, most inefficient organizations in the US if not the world.
I think a lot of people around the world believe this of their government - and in many cases, most politicians couldn't find their arse with both hands and a map giving directions - but all in all (take out the rogue governments), in the Western World, they're not doing too bad a job at trying to keep the majority, housed, fed and alive. OK, there are some exceptions and some people fall through the cracks, particularly in poorer sectors of the community, but for the most part our standards of living have improved over the last 50 years or so.
However, standards of living could be so much better if governments didn't have to court/bow down to large corporate entities to stay in office... perhaps then there would be a fairer distribution of wealth and wages that allow people to 'really' live rather than just keeping their heads above water. Yes, governments are too often manipulated and controlled by the corporate world... and much economic 'reform' is geared towards keeping these big movers and shakers happy, meaning that the 'small' man is too frequently given little or no consideration and is left behind in a trail of poor governmental decisions and has to fend for himself on peanuts.
Sure we need large corporations to generate goods and services... jobs, but the corporate world also needs a happy, healthy and able to pay consumer base to survive... and this is why governments need to do more to protect the small man as well... because without a healthy happy workforce/consumer base, the economy goes down the shit chute along with the corporations. Simple economics, really, but far too many corporate entities neglect to consider the well-being and propensity of customers/would-be customers to pay and thus go broke or move their operations offshore to maximise profits via cheap labour, thus reducing the ability of their own domestic market to pay... not that they care too much. There's export markets to saturate - until they can absorb/pay no more - "but what the heck", they say: "I'm here for a good time, not a long time!"
So! If the small man is struggling to put food on the table, clothes on his back and enough fuel in the tank to get to work, then it's likely that health cover is on the back burner or foregone entirely... meaning that somebody has to pick up the health care slack if there's to be a healthy workforce/consumer base... because, at the end of the day, rank and file workers are the backbone of any economy/corporate entity. Without them there are no rich fat bastards getting fatter off their efforts.
Ironically enough, the US government is the longest standing government in the world
Me thinks Oliver Cromwell would have something to say about that... being he was first elected to the English Parliament in 1628... but: "The origins of Parliament go back to the 12th century," and "By the 14th century two distinct Houses, the Commons and the Lords, had developed." WWW Link ... so um, when did the US gov't actually form???
WebGizmos
Reply #48 Wednesday, July 16, 2008 4:17 AM
Reply #48 Wednesday, July 16, 2008 4:17 AM
Starkers...couldn't agree more with your above post.
The thing is Starkers...We...well..I should say those of us smart enough to know better...don't trust this government...and if we actually had our way and the government actually worked "for us" and not against us...we wouldn't even be in Iraq. And the other problem is that the U.S. doesn't have that many people left with a backbone anymore to stand up to them.
Trust me....things are going to get a lot worse here before they get better.
you'll trust your government with squillions of dollars to wage war in Iraq, but not tuppence to ensure affordable medical care?
The thing is Starkers...We...well..I should say those of us smart enough to know better...don't trust this government...and if we actually had our way and the government actually worked "for us" and not against us...we wouldn't even be in Iraq. And the other problem is that the U.S. doesn't have that many people left with a backbone anymore to stand up to them.
Trust me....things are going to get a lot worse here before they get better.
mschleisner
Reply #49 Wednesday, July 16, 2008 4:29 AM
Reply #49 Wednesday, July 16, 2008 4:29 AM
I like the fact that I am a woman who has taken care of three handicapped people for over 25 years. I worked full time until about two years ago when my medical condition became a problem.
My husband became too ill for me to go to work now and I have no insurance, so I can't go to the doctor.
I still don't qualify for medicare or social security and live in pain everyday.
You would think with our limited income which is social security they would put me on medicade or medicare to help me stay healthy to take care of these three people but no, this means if anything were to happen to me the family would be in the care of the state who would then send out nurses to care for them, at what cost then?
Taxpayers dollars in the end.
I don't get it, keep me healthy so I can go to work and pay taxes, or keep me unhealthy till I break down or die and make them take care of three people in the system?
We lost our home, that wasn't bad enough, we lost a nice car and now drive a junker. We don't have money for anything but bills and food and yet don't qualify for any help.
I have to go to the emergency room when my medical condition gets too bad that I have to go because no ins. means I don't have a doctor who can help me.
The medical bills pile up, and I have no way to pay them.
That alone taxes the system because those of us who can't pay cost everyone who can.
Who's fault is this, those who took away welfare many years ago took away the ability to qualify for any state help or federal help. Yes welfare is not a good thing for those who abuse it but for those who need foodstamps and medicade they can no longer get it because the poverty level is just to the cut off that we don't qualify.
Give those in office free health care and yet they can pay for it, they have the money. The poor and those who work get nothing. Yep we love the system don't we?
My husband became too ill for me to go to work now and I have no insurance, so I can't go to the doctor.
I still don't qualify for medicare or social security and live in pain everyday.
You would think with our limited income which is social security they would put me on medicade or medicare to help me stay healthy to take care of these three people but no, this means if anything were to happen to me the family would be in the care of the state who would then send out nurses to care for them, at what cost then?
Taxpayers dollars in the end.
I don't get it, keep me healthy so I can go to work and pay taxes, or keep me unhealthy till I break down or die and make them take care of three people in the system?
We lost our home, that wasn't bad enough, we lost a nice car and now drive a junker. We don't have money for anything but bills and food and yet don't qualify for any help.
I have to go to the emergency room when my medical condition gets too bad that I have to go because no ins. means I don't have a doctor who can help me.
The medical bills pile up, and I have no way to pay them.
That alone taxes the system because those of us who can't pay cost everyone who can.
Who's fault is this, those who took away welfare many years ago took away the ability to qualify for any state help or federal help. Yes welfare is not a good thing for those who abuse it but for those who need foodstamps and medicade they can no longer get it because the poverty level is just to the cut off that we don't qualify.
Give those in office free health care and yet they can pay for it, they have the money. The poor and those who work get nothing. Yep we love the system don't we?
jpmurph1
Reply #50 Wednesday, July 16, 2008 8:42 AM
Reply #50 Wednesday, July 16, 2008 8:42 AM
what bothers me, is i have a really good healthcare plan, ( at least i thought i did) but they are nickel and diming me to death, last year, i spent 12,000 on co payments (medication, dr visits etc) but there is a kicker, my wife has advanced MS, and if i apply for some type of assistance they tell me i make too much money, duh, 12 grand goes to the insurance company but that is not figured in the big picture, and the co pays keep going up, they come out with a list every year, preferred medicaitons, preferred doctors, if you dont use or go to one of them, you pay more and more, yes i know a lot of people dont even have healthcare, i wonder if i would be better off without it, in Massachusetts everyone has healthcare, its a law, but us working stiffs, foot the bill for the lazy ones, some months i have to make a choice to pay for my medication for high blood pressure, or use the money for my wifes, and the only real luxury we have is this, the internet,
starkers
Reply #51 Wednesday, July 16, 2008 11:48 AM
That's sad... that greed and a spineless government will bring a country to it's knees before somebody with a spine stands up to effect change for the better. Trouble is, the system as it stands is there purely through apathy, too many people thinking "if it isn't broken....".
OK, it isn't exactly broken, but it sure is in serious need of the old parts being yanked out, some major panel beating and an engine overhaul... that's if it's to keep running at all, in any shape or form.
I don't even live in the US, but I see one thing that's fundamentally wrong politically, and that's this thing I keep hearing/reading about how incumbents (congressmen, senators, etc) are pretty much assured of their place in Washington until they die, or are too ill to continue. I mean, what's with that? If they don't have to fight to stay in office, they have no need to work for your vote, the common good... no need whatsoever to keep their promises. No wonder greed and corruption is rife, running rampant throughout the system... the American people have given these self-serving, waste of space politicians free reign... the keys to the castle, so to speak.... and in turn, free reign to the profit motivated corporations to rip you all off without reprisal.
Government will never ever be perfect, but you can certainly improve your lot by kicking their lazy fat arses out of office - refuse to vote for the pricks!!! Maybe then, perhaps, subsequent office holders will actually work to keep it and your vote. If not, kick the bastards out at the next election - don't return to the 'incumbent' thing - and herald a change that tells politicians they don't 'own' the position anymore but temporarily hold it at your behest/as long as they work for you and not against you. Fuck the incumbents.. they've feathered their own nests and have done nothing whatsoever to deserve your vote.
Reply #51 Wednesday, July 16, 2008 11:48 AM
Trust me....things are going to get a lot worse here before they get better.
That's sad... that greed and a spineless government will bring a country to it's knees before somebody with a spine stands up to effect change for the better. Trouble is, the system as it stands is there purely through apathy, too many people thinking "if it isn't broken....".
OK, it isn't exactly broken, but it sure is in serious need of the old parts being yanked out, some major panel beating and an engine overhaul... that's if it's to keep running at all, in any shape or form.
I don't even live in the US, but I see one thing that's fundamentally wrong politically, and that's this thing I keep hearing/reading about how incumbents (congressmen, senators, etc) are pretty much assured of their place in Washington until they die, or are too ill to continue. I mean, what's with that? If they don't have to fight to stay in office, they have no need to work for your vote, the common good... no need whatsoever to keep their promises. No wonder greed and corruption is rife, running rampant throughout the system... the American people have given these self-serving, waste of space politicians free reign... the keys to the castle, so to speak.... and in turn, free reign to the profit motivated corporations to rip you all off without reprisal.
Government will never ever be perfect, but you can certainly improve your lot by kicking their lazy fat arses out of office - refuse to vote for the pricks!!! Maybe then, perhaps, subsequent office holders will actually work to keep it and your vote. If not, kick the bastards out at the next election - don't return to the 'incumbent' thing - and herald a change that tells politicians they don't 'own' the position anymore but temporarily hold it at your behest/as long as they work for you and not against you. Fuck the incumbents.. they've feathered their own nests and have done nothing whatsoever to deserve your vote.
ZubaZ
Reply #52 Wednesday, July 16, 2008 12:21 PM
Reply #52 Wednesday, July 16, 2008 12:21 PM
People are talking about "the government" as if it's this separate thing from where they are. We, the people, are the government. The fact is that many, many people just don't care and don't vote and are not in enough pain yet to get off their lazy asses to do anything.
The US doesn't need a military revolution; it needs people to know who represents them and hold them accountable for what needs to be done. It needs people to call and write and rally. It needs people that want to improve the system to run for office. Let's face it, our best and brightest are not in Washington because at this time it's not worth it to them; things aren't bad enough yet.
Is changing policy hard? Yes. Is it worth it? I guess not to enough people yet.
In regards to healthcare; look for doctors that don't take any insurance. Some of them are able to reduce their fees a significant amount because they don't have to hire office staff to deal with insurance. If enough doctors and patients went this route maybe there'd be better reform. If you don't think you can vote with your ballat, vote with yoru wallet. Folks listen to that.
The US doesn't need a military revolution; it needs people to know who represents them and hold them accountable for what needs to be done. It needs people to call and write and rally. It needs people that want to improve the system to run for office. Let's face it, our best and brightest are not in Washington because at this time it's not worth it to them; things aren't bad enough yet.
Is changing policy hard? Yes. Is it worth it? I guess not to enough people yet.
In regards to healthcare; look for doctors that don't take any insurance. Some of them are able to reduce their fees a significant amount because they don't have to hire office staff to deal with insurance. If enough doctors and patients went this route maybe there'd be better reform. If you don't think you can vote with your ballat, vote with yoru wallet. Folks listen to that.
DaveRI
Reply #53 Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:39 PM
Reply #53 Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:39 PM
Another piece of this:
I saw a hospital bill a few years ago for about $250,000 gross. The patient belonged to an HMO. The HMO dissallowed about half of the hospital bill, paid their part of the remaining $125,000, and the insured paid their part of that same $125,000, and everybody was happy.
In other words, the HMO declared half of the bill garbage and threw it out. So I have to wonder, if the patient hadn't belonged to the HMO, would the hospital have gone after the insured for the gross amount? I don't know if it's some funky way of accounting for things or if it's a way of gouging, but it seems more than a little funky to me.
I saw a hospital bill a few years ago for about $250,000 gross. The patient belonged to an HMO. The HMO dissallowed about half of the hospital bill, paid their part of the remaining $125,000, and the insured paid their part of that same $125,000, and everybody was happy.
In other words, the HMO declared half of the bill garbage and threw it out. So I have to wonder, if the patient hadn't belonged to the HMO, would the hospital have gone after the insured for the gross amount? I don't know if it's some funky way of accounting for things or if it's a way of gouging, but it seems more than a little funky to me.
DaveRI
Reply #54 Wednesday, July 16, 2008 2:13 PM
And that's really the trick isn't it, getting a government that represents the people. Seems like the line between Corporate America and Government has become increasingly blurred. Maybe the best way to pick your votes is to consider where the candidates get their money and where they've been, not necessarily by what they say. The heck with the television ads, let's see the checkbook.
Reply #54 Wednesday, July 16, 2008 2:13 PM
The US doesn't need a military revolution; it needs people to know who represents them
And that's really the trick isn't it, getting a government that represents the people. Seems like the line between Corporate America and Government has become increasingly blurred. Maybe the best way to pick your votes is to consider where the candidates get their money and where they've been, not necessarily by what they say. The heck with the television ads, let's see the checkbook.
starkers
Reply #55 Wednesday, July 16, 2008 10:29 PM
Of course not: violence breeds violence... and that which is born of violence travels a rocky and violent road. There is more than enough/too much violence already, so a peaceful revolution via the ballot box is preferred... oh, and vote for pacifist politicians who won't take you to war. The massive savings would help fund a universal health scheme that would actually be saving lives rather than taking them.
Now that is total bollocks!! As is $110,000 for knee replacements!!
Let's see, even if there were 20 people involved in the procedure @ $1000 each; $2000 for the anaesthetic; $3000 for each prosthesis and $1000 per day post-operative care for 2 days, it's still only come to a grand total of $32,000... and that's still being rather generous for a couple of bits of molded plastic and a tank of happy/sleepy gas... not to mention a grand for under a day's work. I mean, realistically, how many of you get a grand for just 4 - 5 hours work....
Obviously, at $110,000/$250.000, somebody is profiteering big time! No point in some blaming the medicos and others pointing the finger at insurers... they're one as bad as the other, and thus will feed off one another as long as you keep paying exorbitant prices hand over fist.
That's why insurance companies are evil... they sit on and profit further from your money (investing it for personal gain), but when you make a legitimate claim on your money, they look for as many ways possible not to pay out. For example, I know an old bloke who has been insured with the same company for 40 + years, was rear-ended at a red light by an uninsured/unlicensed driver and had his claim knocked back because his insurer determined fault on his part due to the tread on one of his tyres being 0.02 centimeters below the transport dep'ts guidelines. Now that is total bollocks! He was rear-ended for Christ's sake... and he obviously had ample tread on his tyre(s) to pull up at the red light... without rear-ending the car in front of him.
Yup, what with all the what ifs and nefarious law suits, the world has gone insurance policy mad... and the insurance fat cats, with their luxury villas, cars and yachts, will keep playing up the what ifs to keep you paying hand over fist... thus "gouging" and blowing the price of anything and everything insurable out of proportion.
And if their money comes from insurance, vote for somebody whose money doesn't.
Reply #55 Wednesday, July 16, 2008 10:29 PM
The US doesn't need a military revolution;
Of course not: violence breeds violence... and that which is born of violence travels a rocky and violent road. There is more than enough/too much violence already, so a peaceful revolution via the ballot box is preferred... oh, and vote for pacifist politicians who won't take you to war. The massive savings would help fund a universal health scheme that would actually be saving lives rather than taking them.
I saw a hospital bill a few years ago for about $250,000 gross.
Now that is total bollocks!! As is $110,000 for knee replacements!!
Let's see, even if there were 20 people involved in the procedure @ $1000 each; $2000 for the anaesthetic; $3000 for each prosthesis and $1000 per day post-operative care for 2 days, it's still only come to a grand total of $32,000... and that's still being rather generous for a couple of bits of molded plastic and a tank of happy/sleepy gas... not to mention a grand for under a day's work. I mean, realistically, how many of you get a grand for just 4 - 5 hours work....
Obviously, at $110,000/$250.000, somebody is profiteering big time! No point in some blaming the medicos and others pointing the finger at insurers... they're one as bad as the other, and thus will feed off one another as long as you keep paying exorbitant prices hand over fist.
the HMO declared half of the bill garbage and threw it out.
That's why insurance companies are evil... they sit on and profit further from your money (investing it for personal gain), but when you make a legitimate claim on your money, they look for as many ways possible not to pay out. For example, I know an old bloke who has been insured with the same company for 40 + years, was rear-ended at a red light by an uninsured/unlicensed driver and had his claim knocked back because his insurer determined fault on his part due to the tread on one of his tyres being 0.02 centimeters below the transport dep'ts guidelines. Now that is total bollocks! He was rear-ended for Christ's sake... and he obviously had ample tread on his tyre(s) to pull up at the red light... without rear-ending the car in front of him.
Yup, what with all the what ifs and nefarious law suits, the world has gone insurance policy mad... and the insurance fat cats, with their luxury villas, cars and yachts, will keep playing up the what ifs to keep you paying hand over fist... thus "gouging" and blowing the price of anything and everything insurable out of proportion.
The heck with the television ads, let's see the checkbook.
And if their money comes from insurance, vote for somebody whose money doesn't.
WebGizmos
Reply #56 Thursday, July 17, 2008 5:48 AM
Reply #56 Thursday, July 17, 2008 5:48 AM
Ya know...voting in this country doesn't mean squat...its just to make the little people feel as though they actually have a say in anything....nothing more. Every year during the elections the government probably sits there laughing they're asses off at everyone that even bothers. And even if it did mean anything...the candidates...well...enough said about them...other than the gene pool is pretty dry. Just tape the previous election speeches....and then during the next election turn your volume down and play it while they're talking....same ole bullshit lies and empty promises...different faces.
And No...we don't need a violent revolution...a nice long sit down strike might do the trick...everyone pay up your bills ahead of time...if you can...stock some provisions...if you can...and then tell the government and corporate greed to just stuff it. Until you start listening to us you can clean your own toilets....pay your own bills....build your own crap....pay your own tickets...that's it...parties over!
Or we can get the entire country to peacefully march on Washington and demand change....NOW! We've had enough and we're not going to take it anymore. And then just sit down and have a tailgate party till they come to their senses. Can you see it now...the entire capitol surrounded by everyone in the country! That would be freakin awesome! If...and I say If....we can all put our own petty differences aside and pull together.
Change could actually happen...I mean really....how many of us are there....how many of them are there? Do you really think they'd stand a chance in hell!?
And No...we don't need a violent revolution...a nice long sit down strike might do the trick...everyone pay up your bills ahead of time...if you can...stock some provisions...if you can...and then tell the government and corporate greed to just stuff it. Until you start listening to us you can clean your own toilets....pay your own bills....build your own crap....pay your own tickets...that's it...parties over!
Or we can get the entire country to peacefully march on Washington and demand change....NOW! We've had enough and we're not going to take it anymore. And then just sit down and have a tailgate party till they come to their senses. Can you see it now...the entire capitol surrounded by everyone in the country! That would be freakin awesome! If...and I say If....we can all put our own petty differences aside and pull together.
Change could actually happen...I mean really....how many of us are there....how many of them are there? Do you really think they'd stand a chance in hell!?
NightTrainthedark
Reply #57 Thursday, July 17, 2008 6:47 AM
So very true but the insurance lobbyists cover their bases by giving to everyone except their clients.
I live in Massachusetts where health insurance is mandatory. Talk about complete fail. People are forced to buy the crappiest insuarnce policies possible in order to meet the new law. The insurance companies don't cover anything so now you have poor people being forced to have useless insurance. The money they pay towards premiums could help them with other bills. Instead they are deeper in the shit. They are poorer with useless insurance.
You can take the word probably out of that statement
Nancy Pelosi has to go. She is a stupid puppet that reacts to the morning news and wings it from there.
The first thing every politician does is try to get themselve a pay raise. We allow this to happen over and over and over. They even have a system in place that keeps us out of the loop and doesn't even give the public a vote.
We are all sheep. Yes, EVEN YOU!(meaning everybody) if you weren't a sheep you wouldn't be expressing your frustrations via the web. You would be an activist of some sort.
Just because anyone thinks they get it does not free them from being a sheep. Pissing and moaning is part of the game. You are just a disgruntled sheep.
Banks are starting to fail. If you have more than $ 100,000 in the bank. Get it out! The Man is already broke and will not be able to cover all the losses.
Reply #57 Thursday, July 17, 2008 6:47 AM
And if their money comes from insurance, vote for somebody whose money doesn't.
So very true but the insurance lobbyists cover their bases by giving to everyone except their clients.
I live in Massachusetts where health insurance is mandatory. Talk about complete fail. People are forced to buy the crappiest insuarnce policies possible in order to meet the new law. The insurance companies don't cover anything so now you have poor people being forced to have useless insurance. The money they pay towards premiums could help them with other bills. Instead they are deeper in the shit. They are poorer with useless insurance.
Every year during the elections the government probably sits there laughing they're asses off at everyone that even bothers.
You can take the word probably out of that statement
Nancy Pelosi has to go. She is a stupid puppet that reacts to the morning news and wings it from there.
The first thing every politician does is try to get themselve a pay raise. We allow this to happen over and over and over. They even have a system in place that keeps us out of the loop and doesn't even give the public a vote.
We are all sheep. Yes, EVEN YOU!(meaning everybody) if you weren't a sheep you wouldn't be expressing your frustrations via the web. You would be an activist of some sort.
Just because anyone thinks they get it does not free them from being a sheep. Pissing and moaning is part of the game. You are just a disgruntled sheep.
Banks are starting to fail. If you have more than $ 100,000 in the bank. Get it out! The Man is already broke and will not be able to cover all the losses.
WebGizmos
Reply #58 Thursday, July 17, 2008 7:13 AM
I've been an full time activist ever since the 60's...I think its safe to say I'm on someone's list somewhere if not everyone's. In the end of year newspaper they list everyone's names that's ever written a "Letter To The Editor" to the paper and had it printed....mine always has numerous **** behind it for multiple letters written. I get letters from lawyers wanting buy me dinner and discuss my politics...I get stacks of junk reply mail from government officials for letters written online and sent to them about what they are doing. I try to get others involved...to have they're say...but sadly most people can't be bothered.
If more people got off they're asses and stopped being intimidated by these clowns in government we could actually get things done. You can't even begin to imagine the frustration I feel at the fact that people aren't motivated enough to do anything until its to late. Then I get the standard..."Hey...you were right...we should have done something!" speech.
Creating docks is my therapy and keeps me out of the gun towers!
Reply #58 Thursday, July 17, 2008 7:13 AM
You would be an activist of some sort.
I've been an full time activist ever since the 60's...I think its safe to say I'm on someone's list somewhere if not everyone's. In the end of year newspaper they list everyone's names that's ever written a "Letter To The Editor" to the paper and had it printed....mine always has numerous **** behind it for multiple letters written. I get letters from lawyers wanting buy me dinner and discuss my politics...I get stacks of junk reply mail from government officials for letters written online and sent to them about what they are doing. I try to get others involved...to have they're say...but sadly most people can't be bothered.
If more people got off they're asses and stopped being intimidated by these clowns in government we could actually get things done. You can't even begin to imagine the frustration I feel at the fact that people aren't motivated enough to do anything until its to late. Then I get the standard..."Hey...you were right...we should have done something!" speech.
Creating docks is my therapy and keeps me out of the gun towers!
NightTrainthedark
Reply #60 Thursday, July 17, 2008 11:07 AM
ditto..
When someone starts bitching to me about "things", I ask them, what are you doing to change things? Lets just say that people do not like being challenged like that.
I am currently active in trying to eliminate tax exempt status of churches.
I am currently active in trying to get additional regulations established for home energy requirements. Current laws are loaded with conflicts of interest.
I am curently trying to get a town official fired for forcing contractors to use specific vendors in which he has a stake in.
Tiny steps will eventually lead to your goal.
Each of these little battles prepares me more and more for a run at politics. I could use some golf time.
Reply #60 Thursday, July 17, 2008 11:07 AM
Good for you Giz!. Thanks!
ditto..
When someone starts bitching to me about "things", I ask them, what are you doing to change things? Lets just say that people do not like being challenged like that.
I am currently active in trying to eliminate tax exempt status of churches.
I am currently active in trying to get additional regulations established for home energy requirements. Current laws are loaded with conflicts of interest.
I am curently trying to get a town official fired for forcing contractors to use specific vendors in which he has a stake in.
Tiny steps will eventually lead to your goal.
Each of these little battles prepares me more and more for a run at politics. I could use some golf time.
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Reply #41 Tuesday, July 15, 2008 10:32 AM
"I love the sound of Jello wobbling in the morning....."
Napalm is just sooo yesterday.