Is that by personal choice or is he actually banned from responding to her threads...is that possible?

I was told it it possible to block people from the Joe User end.  

- What lawyer in his right mind would bother making any case about that, I just don't see it happening. A highlight technique is just that, a highlight technique. If I throw a football in the exact same way as Dan Marino or kick a soccer ball the same way as Pele, it's using their technique, are they going to sue me for it? That's a bit of a stretch in all of these cases. If people make a stink, it's usually because they're stinky themselves - and I can be guilty of that too.

Great, and you can choose not to download it.


Isn't VStyler's executive skin a vista type skin with wood grain effect? VS definitely has a passion for skinning as far as I can tell. Even if he collaborated with Stardock on that skin, he is a part of it. On top of that he created this vista type skin and made it available free to the skinning community even though it's a master quality skin. Aren't we allowed to have more than one passion in life? A passion for financial security, great relationships, the freedom to express ourselves using our given skill sets & abilities, the freedom to do what we want among many other passions?


Seriously dude, you have a control issue. We should just nuke everyone who doesn't jive with your view of the world! "Download whores" - do you hear yourself speak? They are only downloads, they have no value other than indicating how many times a skin has been downloaded. Is that all we do, skin for downloads? We can't just assume we skin because we like to skin and we like to share what we've done with others?! Tarred, feathered, neutered (neutered?! ...what am I, a cat or a dog?) Quick fix for the skinning for download#'s argument.... remove the download numbers from plain view, if you need to keep it, you can view only your download#'s, no one elses. I could handle that, can you? Would that solve the download whore argument? Maybe you don't realize it but that is a really harsh label you're putting on people. The word "whore" generally isn't a positive one.



The only negative energy that I have felt recently is from you unfortunately, and I say that it's unfortunate because you have the incredible title of "master" class skinner associated with your user account and you should represent this site and the skinning community in a more responsible manner than you currently do. I don't have any self esteem issues, and I would hope that my self-esteem is drastically effected by my skinning ability either - no one's self-esteem should be affected by that. A person's self-esteem is a reflection of the kind of person you are, it isn't based on your skinning abilities. If you feel the need to tear other people down, it could be a reflection of self-esteem issues you currently have.



You apologize but then you finish off by saying you were right. What are you apologizing for then? If you were right, you don't need to apologize - that would be logical in my point of view. I don't think anyone wants you to quit skinning, I certainly don't. There is room in my world for someone like you, it's unfortunate but I believe there isn't room in your world for skinners like myself & butch. If I could ask you to quit doing something it would be to stop bashing other skinners publicly and using hurtful comments, but I can't control you so you can continue doing this, in your point of view I'm sure you think it's a positive thing like public executions.



The whole system is functioning and has functioned for quite some time, I don't think that it's all out of order. Seriously, how is anyone cheating the system? Why do you focus so much on these download#'s? Should we just remove all of the non-quality skins and only allow high quality skinners to submit work to the site? Would that fix the system? Limit selection and only allow certain skins to be downloaded? If the desire to have talent is not enough when you don't have talent, should we just quit? Your advice is not simple and doesn't apply to everyone, everyone has a choice as to what advice they want to listen to and use. Reading your post, I seriously believe that you were hung over and possible still feeling the effects of your over-indulgence.

Truth be told, we can't change anyone directly. You can talk to them till your blue in the face, you can reason, use logic, have people support your point of view but you can't change anyone's mind that way and you can't change how they do things either. To change other people you have to first change yourself. It's the same thing in any relationship or friendship, be the best person you can be and this will hopefully draw out the best in other people. But don't preach change if you're not willing to show that you can do the same. It's the hardest lesson to learn.... and the easiest one.

One thing I have received from all of this is that I (personally) as a skinner ought to work like a master, whether I ever receive that position/title or not. As I see it, it is not just the artistry or the creativity that is great, but also the work involved.

This thread has been an invaluable help to my skinning mentality!

You can definitely derive inspiration from a master's work, the skinning ability of the masters on this site is incredible, something to definitely aim for if that is your goal.   

  

To be a master is not my goal; to do the work of a master is. I just hope to have fun skinning, and do a good job while I'm at it.

the personal attacks need to stop

I agree after this...

Rob, you twisted everything I said for the worst. Please stop butting in with your personal agenda.
If you had any clue how many people have messaged me supporting what I said, you would be silent.

You are correct, the personal attacks need to stop.

Snidely if you feel I'm attacking NT, I apologize to you and then also to him.
Seriously NT, I do apologize to you if you feel what I wrote is hurtful. I don't hate you, never did, always respected and still do your incredible skinning ability because you do have serious skinning skills but I've always felt a sting in your words against me & other users - maybe it's your way of being friendly to other people by throwing a few pokes at them every now & then but it's kind of hard to determine that based only on our online presence.

Stinging you back isn't my intention, bringing your attention to how your words may be affecting other people is.

My intention based on my rant above, is to show NT from my point of view how he talks about skinners that have different viewpoints & abilities. I haven't used any bad words to label NT, I said that I would never ask him to quit and I definitely had space for him in my world. The quotes I included above were from his own post in this same discussion, I didn't twist any words, I used them in the context they were intended in. He has preached accountability for a person's actions and all I'm saying is if that is the case, he needs to see that being accountable works both ways and that his words can & have been hurtful.

But if it appears that I'm attacking him and hurting him when it was his original hurtful posts that started this debate, well then I'm done discussing this. I don't have a need now or ever to hurt anyone else including NT. Heck all I really need in life is food & water - those are necessities, asking someone to stop saying hurtful things to myself or others is just a preference, not a necessity.

Unless I'm asked a specific question that really requires my response, I will no longer post in this discussion.

Thank you all for your understanding.

I somehow think this thread has long strayed from its original purpose. Perhaps it is time to move on and just give in to the fact this type of discussion can never develop the way it should and is pointless.

If this thread can't stay on-topic and people can't play nice, it will be locked. 

I'm going to try and be very clear on this point...

If you have a problem with a SKIN, we welcome you to express your opinions and critiques of the skins on the site in the comments section, the forums, IRC etc provided it is CONSTRUCTIVE AND CIVIL.

If you have a problem with a SKINNER, either keep it between you and that skinner, or keep it to yourself.  This site is not a venue for anyone to go after another user of the site, regardless of how much you may dislike them.  If the person is violating site rules, then it is up to the site staff to deal with them.  It is not up to any individual skinner or site user to enforce the rules of this site.

We also will not allow individuals, or groups of individuals to proclaim a "standard" to apply to other skinners.  If you want to hold yourself to a higher standard of skinning, we are happy to accept and encourage that, but we will not let anyone tell other skinners how they should skin, or what they should or should not post on the site.  The technical requirements for accepting skins to WinCustomize are determined by site staff.  We have been very blunt in the last few years on how we regard users who try and intimidate or harass other users into behaving a certain way. 

This thread is about Masters passing on wisdom and advice to lower-level skinners.  Instead of focusing on what you do not like, complaining about how things have just gone down the tubes, you should be giving POSITIVE advice.  Instead of saying "Don't do X"  you should instead be saying "Do Y".  Kitty was pretty clear on it not being a bitch thread, which is what it is turning into.

Rob, I am sorry you got in the middle of something that really had nothing to do with you. I did make a comment directed at you but in a typical online fashion, it was not heard the way it was meant. In the midst of insulting someone else I insulted you and I am sorry for that. I live by the rule that you need to choose your battles. It was thought out and not reactionary. I chose to make a stink in this case because alot of people were thinking it but were hesitant to speak out. So, I apologize if I offended you.

I admit that I have a little too strong of an opinion when it comes to skinning. I never thought my way was the best way. I am just trying to get something changed where I saw nothing working in that direction. Sadly, nothing will become of this except alot of sour pusses and some hurt feelings.

I will say this Rob, ....things were different years ago. You are experiencing things from a different perspective than some of us that have been around awhile. My feet were held to the fire when I was starting out and yes, I feel slighted when standards are lowered after I went through all the hair pulling. In the end, I benefited from it immensely but apparantly it is making me an elitist for having a strong opinion and an unusually large sense of pride in everything that is skinning. I am closer to a mediocre skinner than the best so I do not think my shit doesn't stink. I see a need for a fix and I try to fill it.

I really wish I could get through to you how certain things that people do are a disgrace to skinning. My view of skinning that is.

Bro... that is the nicest thing you've ever said to me on this site.   
I apologize if I ended up offending you with my replies, it was never my intention.

FYI - I could never look down on a master skinner and I love your work, trust me, your stuff is inspirational.

Thank you for the kind reply back, it is appreciated.   

You know, I can't stand Peta but they do have a way of making things happen. If you fight for the really absurd, the slightly absurd stuff starts to sound reasonable.

Hey! Have you guys been to Home Depot lately? You really ought to go! Sounds like you guys need a vacation!

I was once a download whore. One day, it just didn't matter anymore and that's when I started to impress myself and others. I am working on a skin that has over 400 hours put into it so far. I'll probably put another 400 into it. It will sit around til the GUIO starts and I am excited to have it on the shelf until then. I am in a good place from a skinning sense. I wish everyone could be me. Is that so wrong?   

edit: at the 600 hour mark, they will release a wb update that will break my skin.   

Ah man! That sucks! I'd hate to be you right now NT! I hope its not broken beyond repair! Oh and hey! If you need a tester (if its for xp that is) you got my addy. Then I could start on some docks for it too!

Imagine a world where Skinners measured their pricks by how much time they spent on a skin....  

This Patron Gold stuff is delicious.    

It really hasn't been the most efficient time spent though... see there I go getting distracted again.   

omg essorant wrote in my post!! *squeeee!!!!* seriously bro....wicked tips.... (have memorized them)