Microsoft SP 3
Should I ? Shouldn't I ?
Friday, May 23, 2008 by mike b1954 | Discussion: Community
So its official then ..... Assuming it has been tested extensively ....... Is it NOW safe to download from Microsoft Update page ? ..... And has anyone had any serious issues ?
If they had , does a system restore fix it all back the way it was ? ..Just wondering ...
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mike b1954
Reply #2 Friday, May 23, 2008 11:16 PM
Reply #2 Friday, May 23, 2008 11:16 PM
Is it faster, better, safer ? Whats changed then,WebGizmos ?
BigDogBigFeet
Reply #3 Friday, May 23, 2008 11:37 PM
Reply #3 Friday, May 23, 2008 11:37 PM
I had a complete system malfunction from SP3. There's been other posts on this. It may be limited to HP computers with AMD processors but, I'm not completely sure of that. When I tried to updtae to SP3 my system would no longer bootup.
I got the BSOD. I could not get any restore point to work, not even the one MS set just prior to the update. I had to do a complete system restore to SP2 and lost many hours of my time and work as a result. I right now have auto-update shut-off and will not download SP3 until MS and HP adress this problem and there is a specific a response from them that this SP is completely tested and safe for my computer.
Downlaod it and install it at your own risk just like MS states.
I got the BSOD. I could not get any restore point to work, not even the one MS set just prior to the update. I had to do a complete system restore to SP2 and lost many hours of my time and work as a result. I right now have auto-update shut-off and will not download SP3 until MS and HP adress this problem and there is a specific a response from them that this SP is completely tested and safe for my computer.
Downlaod it and install it at your own risk just like MS states.
Phoon
Reply #4 Friday, May 23, 2008 11:53 PM
It's my understanding that despite being warned by MS, HP used the same image for AMD systems as they had created for Intel systems. VERY stupid on HP's behalf. They earned the malfunction honestly (or dishonestly) and were kind enough to pass it on to their customers. I'm really surprised this has not reared it's ugly head before now.
Reply #4 Friday, May 23, 2008 11:53 PM
It may be limited to HP computers with AMD processors but, I'm not completely sure of that.
It's my understanding that despite being warned by MS, HP used the same image for AMD systems as they had created for Intel systems. VERY stupid on HP's behalf. They earned the malfunction honestly (or dishonestly) and were kind enough to pass it on to their customers. I'm really surprised this has not reared it's ugly head before now.
karmat
Reply #5 Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:14 AM
Reply #5 Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:14 AM
I installed it about 2 weeks ago, and have had absolutely no problems. I just have a pretty basic intel laptop. I haven't noticed any differences in performance or anything else.
BigDogBigFeet
Reply #6 Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:18 AM
I'm unconvinced by this logic that it's HP's doing for the following reason:
MS writes the code that installs SP3. As I understand it, the problem occurs because this service pack installs an Intel chip driver and replaces my AMD chip driver. This causes the BSOD and looped booting.
I have numerous software apps that have no problem indentifying I'm running an HP computer with an AMD chipset. If these apps can easily do this so can MS. Therefore, MS has absolutely no business force installing an Intel chip driver on my AMD machine and thereby rendering it useless.
As you can tell Phoon, in my mind, the primary fault for this is MS.
Reply #6 Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:18 AM
It's my understanding that despite being warned by MS, HP used the same image for AMD systems as they had created for Intel systems. VERY stupid on HP's behalf. They earned the malfunction honestly (or dishonestly) and were kind enough to pass it on to their customers. I'm really surprised this has not reared it's ugly head before now.
I'm unconvinced by this logic that it's HP's doing for the following reason:
MS writes the code that installs SP3. As I understand it, the problem occurs because this service pack installs an Intel chip driver and replaces my AMD chip driver. This causes the BSOD and looped booting.
I have numerous software apps that have no problem indentifying I'm running an HP computer with an AMD chipset. If these apps can easily do this so can MS. Therefore, MS has absolutely no business force installing an Intel chip driver on my AMD machine and thereby rendering it useless.
As you can tell Phoon, in my mind, the primary fault for this is MS.
Phoon
Reply #7 Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:27 AM
If this were true BDBF.. then ALL AMD chip PC's would be affected.
Sorry, this one is HP's doing.
Reply #7 Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:27 AM
I'm unconvinced by this logic that it's HP's doing for the following reason:
MS writes the code that installs SP3. As I understand it, the problem occurs because this service pack installs an Intel chip driver and replaces my AMD chip driver.
MS writes the code that installs SP3. As I understand it, the problem occurs because this service pack installs an Intel chip driver and replaces my AMD chip driver.
If this were true BDBF.. then ALL AMD chip PC's would be affected.
Sorry, this one is HP's doing.
BigDogBigFeet
Reply #8 Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:35 AM
Why? Your point doesn't address my contention, namely MS wrote the install HP didn't. MS is pitching the idea it's HP's primary fault. In my mind it's MS's primay fault because MS and only MS had the capacity to avoid the problem. To wit, test for Intel or AMD chipsets, install the new correct chip drivers as needed.
Reply #8 Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:35 AM
If this were true BDBF.. then ALL AMD chip PC's would be affected.
Why? Your point doesn't address my contention, namely MS wrote the install HP didn't. MS is pitching the idea it's HP's primary fault. In my mind it's MS's primay fault because MS and only MS had the capacity to avoid the problem. To wit, test for Intel or AMD chipsets, install the new correct chip drivers as needed.
BigDogBigFeet
Reply #9 Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:38 AM
Reply #9 Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:38 AM
Oh, I wanted to add HP denies the MS contention they used the same image for all installs. HP has indicated that isn't true, they used different install images for different computers.
Phoon
Reply #10 Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:43 AM
Source:
WWW Link
Reply #10 Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:43 AM
Users, led by Jesper Johansson, a former program manager for security policy at Microsoft and currently an MVP (Microsoft Most Valuable Professional) who works at Amazon.com, identified several causes, including one limited to HP-branded systems. According to Johansson -- and later, Microsoft itself -- HP used a disk image created on an Intel-powered machine to factory-install Windows XP on AMD-based PCs. Microsoft had advised computer makers against doing that as long ago as 2004.
An errant reference in Windows Registry for an unnecessary device driver -- "intelppm.sys," a power-management driver designed only for Intel-based PCs -- causes the XP SP3 upgrade to install that driver to AMD systems, said Johansson. That causes the PC to fail to reboot when it restarts after the update. Because most XP machines are set by default to reboot on a failure, the PC reboots repeatedly; some users have had trouble interrupting the endless reboots and regaining control of their computers.
HP did not explicitly admit the problem was its fault, but confirmed some details of Johansson's analysis. "The affected HP systems do not have an Intel driver loaded onto them, but there is a services registry entry that SP3 appears to be recognizing as an instruction to load the Intel driver, subsequently causing the failure," HP said in an e-mailed statement Thursday.
An errant reference in Windows Registry for an unnecessary device driver -- "intelppm.sys," a power-management driver designed only for Intel-based PCs -- causes the XP SP3 upgrade to install that driver to AMD systems, said Johansson. That causes the PC to fail to reboot when it restarts after the update. Because most XP machines are set by default to reboot on a failure, the PC reboots repeatedly; some users have had trouble interrupting the endless reboots and regaining control of their computers.
HP did not explicitly admit the problem was its fault, but confirmed some details of Johansson's analysis. "The affected HP systems do not have an Intel driver loaded onto them, but there is a services registry entry that SP3 appears to be recognizing as an instruction to load the Intel driver, subsequently causing the failure," HP said in an e-mailed statement Thursday.
Source:
WWW Link
RadialFX
Reply #11 Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:44 AM
Reply #11 Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:44 AM
Just for some information here, I have a non-brand name pc with an AMD processor and when I installed it I got the endless reboot. So, based on that it's not just an HP issue. I read somewhere (and if I can find it again I'll provide the link) that the problem was with xp sp3 installing the intel driver even if you have an AMD processor which was causing the BSOD and the endless reboot. Just 2 cents or maybe 3! he,he
I did get lucky enough to be able to choose my boot device by pressing F8 while booting and then it would boot. SO...I was able to do a successful uninstall through ADD/REMOVE and uninstall SP3. RAD
I did get lucky enough to be able to choose my boot device by pressing F8 while booting and then it would boot. SO...I was able to do a successful uninstall through ADD/REMOVE and uninstall SP3. RAD
zakai1369
Reply #12 Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:46 AM
Reply #12 Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:46 AM
Haven't installed it yet but interested to see what responses there are about this.
Phoon
Reply #13 Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:48 AM
Read the above article. If a system image contains registry entries that say there are Intel drivers then the SP will install such. This is a direct result of HP using the wrong image which was cloned from an Intel system. It's not MS's fault that HP used a half assed shortcut instead of actually taking the time to build a proper image.
Reply #13 Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:48 AM
To wit, test for Intel or AMD chipsets, install the new correct chip drivers as needed.
Read the above article. If a system image contains registry entries that say there are Intel drivers then the SP will install such. This is a direct result of HP using the wrong image which was cloned from an Intel system. It's not MS's fault that HP used a half assed shortcut instead of actually taking the time to build a proper image.
Phoon
Reply #14 Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:49 AM
I had not heard of it occurring in non HP systems. Hmmm.
Reply #14 Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:49 AM
Just for some information here, I have a non-brand name pc with an AMD processor and when I installed it I got the endless reboot.
I had not heard of it occurring in non HP systems. Hmmm.
BigDogBigFeet
Reply #15 Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:58 AM
Reply #15 Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:58 AM
I use regular registry cleaning software that is supposed to indentify and remove all invalid, obsolete registry entries. Do these software programs work? Who knows.
I think your source is a little to pro MS oriented and, although I will not take the time to research this further, I just bet there is other "analysis" about this that the problem is with the SP3 install.
From my standpoint, SP3 is no way until it will install without this horrible system crash. I saw a supposed fix for this posted but, I'm not one to experiment especially if it will cost me in excess of 72 hours of work to correct.
Sounds to me like more BS(from Intel/MS) to cause people to become disastified with their computers and want new ones with new problems. So long as they're Vista machines with Intel chips, that is.
I think your source is a little to pro MS oriented and, although I will not take the time to research this further, I just bet there is other "analysis" about this that the problem is with the SP3 install.
From my standpoint, SP3 is no way until it will install without this horrible system crash. I saw a supposed fix for this posted but, I'm not one to experiment especially if it will cost me in excess of 72 hours of work to correct.
Sounds to me like more BS(from Intel/MS) to cause people to become disastified with their computers and want new ones with new problems. So long as they're Vista machines with Intel chips, that is.
BigDogBigFeet
Reply #16 Saturday, May 24, 2008 1:02 AM
Reply #16 Saturday, May 24, 2008 1:02 AM
The freakin adds are back again for the zillionth time. I've a paid subscription through 2011 to WC for an add free WEB expience. I don't get that either but, it's an inexpensive subscription.
I wonder if WC records an advertising hit for these occurances and Google sends a little more scratch in. Ha ha Ha.
I wonder if WC records an advertising hit for these occurances and Google sends a little more scratch in. Ha ha Ha.
Phoon
Reply #17 Saturday, May 24, 2008 1:05 AM
All you have to do is google "sp3 amd problem". The instances of the endless reboot have been primarily confined to HP machines and other OEM (non branded) machines where they used an image created from an intel based system.
Not from as many sources as you will find on a google search.
Reply #17 Saturday, May 24, 2008 1:05 AM
I think your source is a little to pro MS oriented and, although I will not take the time to research this further, I just bet there is other "analysis" about this that the problem is with the SP3 install.
All you have to do is google "sp3 amd problem". The instances of the endless reboot have been primarily confined to HP machines and other OEM (non branded) machines where they used an image created from an intel based system.
Sounds to me like more BS(from Intel/MS)
Not from as many sources as you will find on a google search.
Phoon
Reply #18 Saturday, May 24, 2008 1:07 AM
Must be a BS Intel/MS/SD thing...
Reply #18 Saturday, May 24, 2008 1:07 AM
The freakin adds are back again for the zillionth time. I've a paid subscription through 2011 to WC for an add free WEB expience. I don't get that either but, it's an inexpensive subscription.
Must be a BS Intel/MS/SD thing...
Bebi Bulma
Reply #19 Saturday, May 24, 2008 1:13 AM
Reply #19 Saturday, May 24, 2008 1:13 AM
Guess I won't be updating to SP3 anytime soon, since I have an AMD processor on a homebuilt system.
BigDogBigFeet
Reply #20 Saturday, May 24, 2008 1:21 AM
Reply #20 Saturday, May 24, 2008 1:21 AM
Ok Phoon let's be a little more realistic. Googling or using any search software is a manipulated product. Everyone in the industry has educated themselves in how to get these search engines to return "favorable" hits for their products. So, the average user should use some caution and get information from a variety of sources before reaching conclusions based on a WEB search.
So how about COMPUTERWORLD? Are they a competitive source for info. Here's a link. WWW Link Numerous industry experts from other companies say the problem is with the MS installer. I agree. MS wrote a defective installer that has adversely affected all AMD based computers. At least according to MS and other sources all AMD based computers were affectd.
By the way I used Yahoo and searched Windows XP Service Pack 3 only. After wading past the MS hyped links I found the COMPUTERWORLD listing.
So how about COMPUTERWORLD? Are they a competitive source for info. Here's a link. WWW Link Numerous industry experts from other companies say the problem is with the MS installer. I agree. MS wrote a defective installer that has adversely affected all AMD based computers. At least according to MS and other sources all AMD based computers were affectd.
By the way I used Yahoo and searched Windows XP Service Pack 3 only. After wading past the MS hyped links I found the COMPUTERWORLD listing.
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Reply #1 Friday, May 23, 2008 10:42 PM