Raise Your Hand
SkinStudio 6 Sucks
Monday, April 28, 2008 by Josephs | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I've decided that today's skinning community is dying.
It can be argued that our veteran talent has been either been bought out by Stardock or left the game. Or that perhaps our new talent is a little too new. Regardless of these views, I think statistically today's quality of themes have degraded and I believe I may have an understanding as to why; Windows Vista.
Since Windows Vista has been released, we've seen quite a shockwave throughout the skins and themes community. This is both good, and bad. It is good, because developers can now foresee a new age of design for skins and themes, both aesthetically and that Windows Vista provides a new shell for designers. However, Windows Vista can cause some confusion for visual style developers, and perhaps it is because Stardock thought it would be innovative to create an entirely new development tool for their WindowBlinds software.
I believe it was an excellent effort for Stardock to get right on the Windows Vista wagon by having their WindowBlinds and SkinStudio prepared for Windows Vista. However, I don't think it was such a good idea to redesign the SkinStudio tool from the ground up. In fact, I think it was a ridiculous idea.
This point can be argued to the bone, and no doubt Stardock developers would have plenty to say as to why SkinStudio 6 is greater than classic. But in retrospect, creating a new tool for the new application sends the veteran developers back to square one. Every time I open SkinStudio 6, I am overwhelmed with the changes, and instead of placing effort into my design, I'm more concerned about whether clicking this new and strange button in SkinStudio 6 will explode my megahertz.
At this stage if I can still be bothered, I create my skins in SkinStudio Classic to the furthest extent. And then I add any Vista features with SkinStudio 6, somehow. It's impractical and a lot of work. I tend to believe that someone in the Stardock development team thought it'd be super-cool to redesign the SkinStudio interface to meet the "Stardock 2008" standard. Without much consideration for the idea, it has single handedly blown the whole development community out of the water.
Thoughts?
It can be argued that our veteran talent has been either been bought out by Stardock or left the game. Or that perhaps our new talent is a little too new. Regardless of these views, I think statistically today's quality of themes have degraded and I believe I may have an understanding as to why; Windows Vista.
Since Windows Vista has been released, we've seen quite a shockwave throughout the skins and themes community. This is both good, and bad. It is good, because developers can now foresee a new age of design for skins and themes, both aesthetically and that Windows Vista provides a new shell for designers. However, Windows Vista can cause some confusion for visual style developers, and perhaps it is because Stardock thought it would be innovative to create an entirely new development tool for their WindowBlinds software.
I believe it was an excellent effort for Stardock to get right on the Windows Vista wagon by having their WindowBlinds and SkinStudio prepared for Windows Vista. However, I don't think it was such a good idea to redesign the SkinStudio tool from the ground up. In fact, I think it was a ridiculous idea.
This point can be argued to the bone, and no doubt Stardock developers would have plenty to say as to why SkinStudio 6 is greater than classic. But in retrospect, creating a new tool for the new application sends the veteran developers back to square one. Every time I open SkinStudio 6, I am overwhelmed with the changes, and instead of placing effort into my design, I'm more concerned about whether clicking this new and strange button in SkinStudio 6 will explode my megahertz.
At this stage if I can still be bothered, I create my skins in SkinStudio Classic to the furthest extent. And then I add any Vista features with SkinStudio 6, somehow. It's impractical and a lot of work. I tend to believe that someone in the Stardock development team thought it'd be super-cool to redesign the SkinStudio interface to meet the "Stardock 2008" standard. Without much consideration for the idea, it has single handedly blown the whole development community out of the water.
Thoughts?
Xiandi
Reply #2 Monday, April 28, 2008 10:07 AM
Reply #2 Monday, April 28, 2008 10:07 AM
I don't think it was such a good idea to redesign the SkinStudio tool from the ground up.
I think that may be because you're used to the older version. I started in SKS6 and have had no real issues with it. In fact, I find the older version a real pain to use.and instead of placing effort into my design, I'm more concerned about whether clicking this new and strange button in SkinStudio 6 will explode my megahertz.
I have a really old computer right now and have had no problems with it.At this stage if I can still be bothered,
I would think that if you feel it's a bother, why are you doing it?it has single handedly blown the whole development community out of the water.
You don't seriously believe that, do you?
vStyler
Reply #3 Monday, April 28, 2008 10:46 AM
Reply #3 Monday, April 28, 2008 10:46 AM
As much as it pains me to say it...and im sure it wasn't the intended end result from the developers... but I have to agree to a certain degree.
I've been using 6 for months now and still am NO where near as comfortable in it as 5.. while 5 took me about 1 month..if that...to be fully comfortable with when I first opened it up
I use 5 for everything until I am forced to use 6.
I've been using 6 for months now and still am NO where near as comfortable in it as 5.. while 5 took me about 1 month..if that...to be fully comfortable with when I first opened it up
I use 5 for everything until I am forced to use 6.
MikeB314
Reply #4 Monday, April 28, 2008 11:25 AM
Reply #4 Monday, April 28, 2008 11:25 AM
It took me a couple of months to get used to SKS6 and finally stop using SKS5 completely. It was a difficult habit to break, and for a while I would make my XP skins in 5, then switch to 6 and make the Vista substyles. I'd been using 5 for many years and when you're really comfortable with a program, it's natural to resist major design changes that impact your workflow. But it really didn't take long to develop a new workflow with SKS6. However, the only way to really get used to it is to actually use it all the time. 
Change can be frustrating, but before you know it, it becomes the new normal. SkinStudio 5 looks weird to me now.
As for the impact on WindowBlinds skinning itself, SkinStudio 6 is much more intuitive than 5 was for new users. The old SkinStudio was incredibly overwhelming when I first got started, and it took about a year before I finally immersed myself in it and made a complete skin. SkinStudio 6 opens the door quite a bit wider for new people to create skins. They might not all be masterpieces, but nobody starts out as an expert. I predict we will see more new skinners and skins than before, and in time some of them will become the new old pros.
vStyler
Reply #5 Monday, April 28, 2008 5:00 PM
Reply #5 Monday, April 28, 2008 5:00 PM
SKS 6 is a good and functional app.. i'm not doubting that.. it IS a complete shock after using 5 though. I'm sure in good time, I will adjust. 
MadDeez
Reply #6 Monday, April 28, 2008 5:06 PM
Reply #6 Monday, April 28, 2008 5:06 PM
john, you'll adjust to sks6 long before you come to grips with the fact the jags will never finish ahead of the colts in our lifetimes.
elvee
Reply #7 Monday, April 28, 2008 5:30 PM
Reply #7 Monday, April 28, 2008 5:30 PM
(From a non skinners perspective)
SKS 6 appears to be more attractive and inviting especially to newer users than SKS 5.
For veterans, it is just a matter of changing from old habits to new ones.
SKS 6 appears to be more attractive and inviting especially to newer users than SKS 5.
For veterans, it is just a matter of changing from old habits to new ones.
2of3
Reply #8 Monday, April 28, 2008 6:01 PM
Reply #8 Monday, April 28, 2008 6:01 PM
I have been using 6 exclusivly for the skin I'm working on now ( I don't really have a choice as the latest impulse update wrote over sks5 giving me no way back 
)
Skinning seems to go slower for me on 6 than 5 did, but I'm sure it's just a matter of getting used to it.
)Skinning seems to go slower for me on 6 than 5 did, but I'm sure it's just a matter of getting used to it.
Josephs
Reply #9 Monday, April 28, 2008 6:21 PM
Reply #9 Monday, April 28, 2008 6:21 PM
This is just an estimate, but I think SkinStudio 6 has been around for about 6 months now (including it's beta and final release). And from what I see, the amount of skins with WindowBlinds 6 features can almost be counted on all fingers, and maybe a toe or two.
The only option is being transitional. Instead of providing the alternative, which is much better, faster & stronger, Stardock should have taken the time to make to enhance both the old and new builds of their applications. Now, instead of comfortably moving on with the times by remaining to use SkinStudio Classic with added Vista flavor, we have to let go of SkinStudio Classic and learn SkinStudio 6.
Considering that this is community which mainly provides it's developing contributers with feedback, there's not a whole lot of incentive provided to relearn something. The exception being if you love the community feedback and appreciation. With that being said, it's fair to say that veterans have now been demoted to a lower lifespa, whom are dropping out because of the effort required to relearn SkinStudio is much too great to maintain a certain caliber or expectation of theme design.
Xandi, being a member for 9 months, seems to be quite comfortable with the transition that Stardock has made. I however, must tilt my cap and say good day.
The only option is being transitional. Instead of providing the alternative, which is much better, faster & stronger, Stardock should have taken the time to make to enhance both the old and new builds of their applications. Now, instead of comfortably moving on with the times by remaining to use SkinStudio Classic with added Vista flavor, we have to let go of SkinStudio Classic and learn SkinStudio 6.
Considering that this is community which mainly provides it's developing contributers with feedback, there's not a whole lot of incentive provided to relearn something. The exception being if you love the community feedback and appreciation. With that being said, it's fair to say that veterans have now been demoted to a lower lifespa, whom are dropping out because of the effort required to relearn SkinStudio is much too great to maintain a certain caliber or expectation of theme design.
Xandi, being a member for 9 months, seems to be quite comfortable with the transition that Stardock has made. I however, must tilt my cap and say good day.
ZubaZ
Reply #10 Monday, April 28, 2008 6:41 PM
As Zoomba mentioned in the last skincast, Vista use on the site is at 25% and slowly growing. Vista skinning (and SKS6) is going to match it I think.
As far as incentive to change . . I think skinners have always skinned for themselves (for the most part) and shared here. That will be the case as more skinners switch to Vista. They'll want to skin all teh elements they can . . and that will mean SKS6.
Also, if you are correct that veteran skinners are too old to change and will leave the skinning world, I am sure that new people will come along that hate the way Aero looks and will want to change it in new and exciting ways. My hope is that they will take a moment to see what the vetrans have doen before and see what amazing work can be done with lesser tools and engine and reach for the stars!
Reply #10 Monday, April 28, 2008 6:41 PM
Instead of providing the alternative, which is much better, faster & stronger, Stardock should have taken the time to make to enhance both the old and new builds of their applications.
That does not seem cost effective and isn't a standard business practice in this industry. You don't see MS enhancing IE6 after IE7 came out (other than break/fix).As Zoomba mentioned in the last skincast, Vista use on the site is at 25% and slowly growing. Vista skinning (and SKS6) is going to match it I think.
As far as incentive to change . . I think skinners have always skinned for themselves (for the most part) and shared here. That will be the case as more skinners switch to Vista. They'll want to skin all teh elements they can . . and that will mean SKS6.
Also, if you are correct that veteran skinners are too old to change and will leave the skinning world, I am sure that new people will come along that hate the way Aero looks and will want to change it in new and exciting ways. My hope is that they will take a moment to see what the vetrans have doen before and see what amazing work can be done with lesser tools and engine and reach for the stars!
vStyler
Reply #11 Monday, April 28, 2008 6:50 PM
Bit early in the year for all that isn't it?
Nah!!
Go Jags!!!!!
Reply #11 Monday, April 28, 2008 6:50 PM
the jags will never finish ahead of the colts in our lifetimes.
Bit early in the year for all that isn't it?
Nah!!
Go Jags!!!!!
eieio
Reply #12 Monday, April 28, 2008 8:39 PM
Mike, how are you getting around the things SKS6 won't do yet ... Start Menu Shadow and Fonts for Classic Widgets to name a couple?
I actually like working with SKS6. Well, there's that pesky UIS1 thing that SKS6 does but thankfully it doesn't happen often.
If it weren't for needing SKS5 to do a couple of things SKS6 can't do, I wouldn't even use SKS5
Reply #12 Monday, April 28, 2008 8:39 PM
It took me a couple of months to get used to SKS6 and finally stop using SKS5 completely.
Mike, how are you getting around the things SKS6 won't do yet ... Start Menu Shadow and Fonts for Classic Widgets to name a couple?
I actually like working with SKS6. Well, there's that pesky UIS1 thing that SKS6 does but thankfully it doesn't happen often.
If it weren't for needing SKS5 to do a couple of things SKS6 can't do, I wouldn't even use SKS5
Vampothika
Reply #13 Monday, April 28, 2008 8:57 PM
Reply #13 Monday, April 28, 2008 8:57 PM
actually.....i disagree, the more i use sk6 the more i love it......but i still rely heavily on the tree node to find everything......but at least in the tree node....i know where it is, its in logical order..... i still think the more you use it, the more you know it.. its like everything..
yayy for stardock.....if not for these guys we could not skin vista....and i cant ever get the scene outa my head when brad confessed there were times when he was in the fetal postion crying over getting sk6 to work to skin vista.......so in my books the blood sweat and tears was WELL worth it!!!!
stardock ROCKS..........
yayy for stardock.....if not for these guys we could not skin vista....and i cant ever get the scene outa my head when brad confessed there were times when he was in the fetal postion crying over getting sk6 to work to skin vista.......so in my books the blood sweat and tears was WELL worth it!!!!
stardock ROCKS..........
Vampothika
Reply #14 Monday, April 28, 2008 9:04 PM
Reply #14 Monday, April 28, 2008 9:04 PM
...im also currently training myself......when i make a new wb for vista to remember all the names of the parts of the skin..(by keeping its name, not changing it..ect) so eventually i will be familiar with the new parts....... it helps.. alot.
Vad_M
Reply #15 Monday, April 28, 2008 9:30 PM
Agree in 90%. The last 10% will be only after Stardock's SKS 6 will allow us to edit the left area of Vista Explorer.
I hate when at least one little part of my skin has a different color than other parts. A few day I have tried to solve this problem. Now I have unloaded WindowBlinds and will use the Classic Aero skin on my Vista PC until a problem will be solved.
Reply #15 Monday, April 28, 2008 9:30 PM
stardock ROCKS..........
Agree in 90%. The last 10% will be only after Stardock's SKS 6 will allow us to edit the left area of Vista Explorer.
I hate when at least one little part of my skin has a different color than other parts. A few day I have tried to solve this problem. Now I have unloaded WindowBlinds and will use the Classic Aero skin on my Vista PC until a problem will be solved.
MarkMcQ
Reply #16 Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:51 AM
Reply #16 Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:51 AM
Took me about 5 minutes to get used to Sks6. I think it's infinitely more productive and intuative then the old version.
Plus you don't find yourself working on a section of a skin and finding available attributes that either don't actually exist in WB for that part, or are obsolete.
Plus you don't find yourself working on a section of a skin and finding available attributes that either don't actually exist in WB for that part, or are obsolete.
MadDeez
Reply #18 Tuesday, April 29, 2008 10:45 AM
Reply #18 Tuesday, April 29, 2008 10:45 AM
hippy, you have the best avatar on wc! you're one odd fellow, mark. LOL
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Reply #1 Monday, April 28, 2008 9:55 AM
While I won't argue the point directly (yet
)I do want to ask, how long did it take to learn "classic" SKS? Did you "grow up" with it as more features and skin elements got added?
I remember the first time I opened "classic" SKS. I shut it right back down with a case of the shakes.
Also, the new UI won't affect new skinners (because they don't know any better). And really, SKS is a tool for artists, back when I joined the community, notepad adn paint were teh standards, SKS was just candy.
** Zubaz is not a skinner by any stretch and his comments may be ignored by those of you with talent