Never Mind

Thursday, November 15, 2007 by Z71 | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk

Removed by me. Didn't want to upset anyone.

Edit:

It was never my intention to harm Wincustomize or the community.

The matter has been discussed, by Zoomba and I, with a very "agreeable" compromise.
Thank you.
147 Reply 9 Referrals
First Previous Page 4 of 8 Next Last
Jafo
Reply #61 Friday, November 16, 2007 7:41 AM

Lastly, it blows me away that I try to stick up for doing the right thing and end up looking like the bad guy

No-one's a 'bad guy'...not in this discussion....it's more a debate on whether commercial promotion really needs regulation....or not.

If it is 'buy the cheapest Nokia here' then as you may notice it gets summarily removed.

That ain't going to happen if it is both skinning-related and seen as non-detrimental to the site.

The only indeterminate [at this stage] is whether or not it is considered 'detrimental'...

I don't think it is...but that's a personal standpoint, not that which can be deemed 'official policy'...


Lantec
Reply #62 Friday, November 16, 2007 7:45 AM
Wow, spend a few hours in the real world and miss the best thread in a month.........

The second that financial gain via the Master Program was introduced to skinning, the dynamics changed. The terms of service should be altered to keep the Master program in control and working in the best interest of the community and WC subscribers.


Regardless of what's happened in the past I believe NT hit the nail on the head with this one. Having said that now I have to go off and see what Ross's new skin looks like......

eieio
Reply #63 Friday, November 16, 2007 8:07 AM
Maybe I'm getting a different take on what Vstyler is getting at (par for the course for me), but I get the sense that he is concerned that if anyone, Master or not, can 'advertise' offsite skins for sale here at WC in the forums, it negates a lot of the incentive to become a Master; perhaps not egotistically but at least financially.

On the other hand, I get the sense that many of the posts in response are addressing the pros and cons of only Masters in regard to advertising offsite skins.

Is advertising of offsite skins to be allowed by anyone? Masters only?


I could see the latter as a sort of compromise. Masters would get the benefit of advertisement for both onsite and offsite skins, while retaining the lure of such to non-Masters to become Masters in order to attain that privilege.

ZubaZ
Reply #64 Friday, November 16, 2007 8:23 AM
On the other hand, I get the sense that many of the posts in response are addressing the pros and cons of only Masters in regard to advertising offsite skins.

Is advertising of offsite skins to be allowed by anyone? Masters only?
WC is a skinning site.  Any news about and around skinning is good and valid in . . (dare I say it) . . moderation.    A new skin is from a Master or any of the greats skinners here is news.  Making a forum post announcing a skin that doesn't deserve that announcement would have it's own consequences most likely delivered by the community.

I hadn't realized the impact selling would change the promotion system here.  Who knew?   I really thought that the recognition of moving up the ranks was the pay-off for the hard work and time that goes into it.  I've nothing against having the ability and privilege to sell skins here but I really didn't think that was the goal of most of the folks here.
I don't think there's anything wrong with that; I just never thought of it that way.  It probably because I know that I could never be as good as these folks are.  It would never be an option for me. 

WOM
Reply #65 Friday, November 16, 2007 8:48 AM
I hate reading, would rather wait for the movie.    But from what I read, anyone can sell skins on their site and advertise them on WC and not have to sell them here.  

kenwas
Reply #66 Friday, November 16, 2007 9:00 AM
But from what I read, anyone can sell skins on their site and advertise them on WC and not have to sell them here.


As only masters can sell them here, this cannot apply to "anybody". "Anybody" does not have the option.

Question: A master sells a skin here on WC and the same skin on his/her own site. If the skin is advertised for sale on additional sites on the net, is there any obligation to mention WC or is it fine to link only his/her own site?

PS... A most interesting thread!

Zoomba
Reply #67 Friday, November 16, 2007 9:08 AM

Maybe I'm getting a different take on what Vstyler is getting at (par for the course for me), but I get the sense that he is concerned that if anyone, Master or not, can 'advertise' offsite skins for sale here at WC in the forums, it negates a lot of the incentive to become a Master; perhaps not egotistically but at least financially.

Talk to any of the Master Skinners who sell their stuff on their own as well as here on WinCustomize.  Ask how sales numbers compare between the two.  When Master Skins come in, they get top-billing on the front page, they get listed on the Top Master Skins page.  There is a lot of promotion that Masters get when placing a skin for sale via our program.

At the end of the day, any skinner can setup their own website, anyone can sell widgets on a webpage, it's not technologically difficult.  What most folks don't have though is the reach to a large audience.  That really tips the scales.  We've grown a very large community over the years, and the advantage for the Master Skinners is they get access to that audience through us when posting a Master Skin.

As to the issue of "spamming", it really depends on how things are handled and done.  Do people consider all the free Harmony skins to support the Harmony WB to be spamming or advertising?  They were free to the community.  How about WhiteFire2?  Even though it's free, it's all under the MaxStyles "brand", technically promoting what they're doing over there.  I really wouldn't consider any of that spam, but it seems some of you do.

Yes, in the past we've promoted WinStep, Pixtudio, The Skins Factory etc.  In fact we've promoted other skinning sites in the recent past.  WinCustomize believes in promoting the work of others, even beyond our walls because anything that helps skinners period strengthens the community as a whole.

And like I said earlier, Z71 and I are going to talk this over.  I've already got a pretty good idea on what sort of compromise can be reached.


brewman
Reply #68 Friday, November 16, 2007 9:27 AM


When Master Skins come in, they get top-billing on the front page




Only a few "selected" Master Skins have been featured ... Relent was not promoted.
Someone decided it wasn't worthy.


unclerob
Reply #69 Friday, November 16, 2007 9:40 AM
If just anyone is allowed to advertise skins then the entire Master Skin concept falls apart. Shitty skins will be put up for sale and there is more ads on a site that I pay to get rid of.

Brads screenshot of the day that has been up for well over a month is an ad in my opinion. Some people try to make screenshots to get a shot of the day. It is sort of disrespecting the community. It's an ad no matter how you try to spin it.



Well... master skinners aren't just anyone, they are master skinners, so I'll just make the assumption that shitty skins will not be put up for sale, a skin created by a master skinner would be of decent quality - I think it's a safe assumption to make. Plus wincustomize is part of the skinning community, wouldn't news & events in the rest of the skinning community be a part of the wc daily digest? (This is an honest question, I'm interested in hearing the answer on this).

Brad's screenshot of the day is part of the advertisement of WB6, I'm assuming Stardock is allowed to advertise on wincustomize.com, I don't have a problem with it. I personally view screenshots from the ss gallery, that ss of the day by Brad on the gallery main page doesn't make me go to the ss gallery any more/less than I did before.

I'm just happy to be a member of this vibrant & colorful site, I don't mind reading posts about maxstyles website, Ross edited his original post so I had to view his profile to find his site address to view the new skin. I didn't see any harm in the announcement of his new skin hosted on his site but that's me, I'm still just a noob when it comes to this site and it's general policies. For me, this site is my home page, my first stop on the net, can't speak for the future but for now, it won't be changing anytime soon regardless announcement from other sites hosting premium skins. I also think the master skin program on this site is working well.

just my 0.02cents cdn.


vStyler
Reply #70 Friday, November 16, 2007 9:42 AM
For the record I take back calling Ross's post spam.. its an ugly term.. It was however self promotion and even though yes I do participate in it also.. I personally try to keep it unobtrusive out of respect to others and to Stardock. Thats all.. this blew up into more than I expected it to but perhaps that not such a bad thing if all ends well.

Fairyy~
Reply #71 Friday, November 16, 2007 9:50 AM
Brewman: Only a few "selected" Master Skins have been featured ... Relent was not promoted.
Someone decided it wasn't worthy.


I bought Relent. It was more than 'worthy' but its true that some receive way more features and top billing...I just accept it and go along my merry way.

For instance..The WC Halloween Community blind - Every skin associated with it was featured - the blind was featured twice I believe.

But I noticed the only 2 skins not featured were the Rainlendar and the RightClick Menu.

I guess they weren't ' worthy' either...but then again some of us just are ' extras ' at WC...

Z71 has to promote himself.

T'was a devious plan Z71 - you got me to go to your site and buy the suite

Fairyy~
Reply #72 Friday, November 16, 2007 9:57 AM
For the record I take back calling Ross's post spam.. its an ugly term.. It was however self promotion and even though yes I do participate in it also


Yes it was an ugly term and you should of know that - its what they called your Screen Shot of your " Harmoney " blind with its link to Max Styles that you uploaded to the windowblind section of Deviant Art. They called it spam. You removed it. But then you turn around and do the same thing to Z71 ... that was wrong. But, I'm sure all will turn out well in the end - it always does .

vStyler
Reply #73 Friday, November 16, 2007 10:07 AM
I see DA and here as two different entities..honestly i felt no quarms about posting it there.. the whole place is a mess and full of advertising and fake links, spam etc... whats good for the goose... not really a fair comparison to this discussion, I happen to care about this community.

Fairyy~
Reply #74 Friday, November 16, 2007 10:15 AM
I see DA and here as two different entities..honestly i felt no quarms about posting it there.. the whole place is a mess and full of advertising and fake links, spam etc... whats good for the goose... not really a fair comparison to this discussion, I happen to care about this community


And I don't ? I've been here for years. And I think it was a fair comparison to the discussion and your reply was predictable. DA is associated with this site regardless if its a wasteland of garbage and rips. My point was they called you spam and you turned around and called Z71 spam. Tit for tat ?

Zoomba
Reply #75 Friday, November 16, 2007 10:16 AM

Only a few "selected" Master Skins have been featured ... Relent was not promoted.
Someone decided it wasn't worthy.

Sorry, I didn't start the featuring until well into the program, so the early ones got left out.  I'll be correcting that in the future.


ZubaZ
Reply #76 Friday, November 16, 2007 10:22 AM
Let's all try to stay on topic.  Discussions of dA are not relevant.

Hankers
Reply #77 Friday, November 16, 2007 10:32 AM

WOM
Reply #78 Friday, November 16, 2007 10:39 AM

Let's all try to stay on topic. Discussions of dA are not relevant.

Not sure where the irrelevancy is, sounded like the comparrison was good.  Oh well...  


Fairyy~
Reply #79 Friday, November 16, 2007 10:40 AM
Let's all try to stay on topic. Discussions of dA are not relevant.


It most certainly is relevant..depending on when he removed it from DA. Did he remove just prior to making his statements here ?

This is whats wrong with this site - if things don't go the way you want it you try to
censor the ones that say what you dont want to hear.

I won't be a puppet that you pull my strings and tell me when to nod.

What I said was the truth. Now lets all twist it and make me the bad guy ...

Makes no difference to me at all.




Fairyy~
Reply #80 Friday, November 16, 2007 10:42 AM
Not sure where the irrelevancy is, sounded like the comparrison was good. Oh well.


See comment 79 - " dont rock the boat or else "

Please login to comment and/or vote for this skin.

Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:

  • Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums and downloading skins.
  • Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
  • Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
  • It's simple, and FREE!
Login
First Previous Page 4 of 8 Next Last

Home | About | Privacy | Upload Guidelines | Terms of Service | Help
Copyright © Stardock Corporation. All Rights Reserved.


web-wc01