Never Mind
Thursday, November 15, 2007 by Z71 | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Edit:
It was never my intention to harm Wincustomize or the community.
The matter has been discussed, by Zoomba and I, with a very "agreeable" compromise.
Thank you.
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Reply #22 Thursday, November 15, 2007 7:52 PM
Looking at the TOS I don't see anything against posting items for sale. I think we all can identify the difference between spam and retail.
I know I've seen posts for commercial products and sites by many members here over the years and no one has crossed the line into being a pest. I think that is key here. You start spamming . . and it's an issue.
I think the post was fine. Z21, if you want to put it back that's fine. When someone with real authority returns to be . . well . . authoritative . . we can go from there.
Until then, I'll take the responsibility for this decision right or wrong.
Again, I appreciate the maturity here. Thank you all.
Reply #24 Thursday, November 15, 2007 8:09 PM
If just anyone is allowed to advertise skins then the entire Master Skin concept falls apart. Shitty skins will be put up for sale and there is more ads on a site that I pay to get rid of.
Brads screenshot of the day that has been up for well over a month is an ad in my opinion. Some people try to make screenshots to get a shot of the day. It is sort of disrespecting the community. It's an ad no matter how you try to spin it.
Of course, Ross isn't just anyone.
Reply #25 Thursday, November 15, 2007 8:10 PM
Therein lies my argument. If you use a website as your own personal advertising page where all you is blatantly spam your wares, then yes, you're in breach of, at the very least, proper netiquette.
A skinner's contribution would, I imagine, have a not altogether inconsiderable effect on raising awareness of the product itself, driving newer users to purchase and subscribe thus raising revenue.
Agreed. If all you ever did on WC (or any other site for that matter) was advertise your work, then it would be considered spamming. But an active and contributing member of the skinning community should be afforded the privilege of showcasing their work. Note that I say privilege, as I do understand the point you're making.
The crux of my angle is that an individual's constructive involvement in a community, be it skinning or otherwise, would afford that individual the benefit of mentioning his or her accomplishments, whether for profit or otherwise. If that community is part of your life then why wouldn't you share your achievements with others?
In the end, I believe it comes down to common sense and not abusing the privileges one is afforded. Respecting your host, peers and audience will always go a long way and keep you in good standing.
While i respect and understand what you're saying, vStyler, (and as ZubaZ confirmed) I don't really see that his original post breached any guidelines, stated or otherwise.
Having said all that, I think it's a nice skin. Good work Z71.
Reply #26 Thursday, November 15, 2007 8:15 PM
Hey guys, lets all be friends here. This is a skinning community and anything interesting happening we want to hear about.
Skinning is good - sharing is better
Reply #27 Thursday, November 15, 2007 8:18 PM
I share the concerns about both the spam question and the valuation of the Master program (as it relates to selling skins).
Until then, as long as the discussion remains polite (excepting a few posts) and on topic, I suggest the the conversation continue as it can only add valuable arguments both for and against any policies.
Having said all that . . if I see a glut of ads this weekend . . heads will roll!
Reply #29 Thursday, November 15, 2007 8:29 PM
Can I advertise myself? I'm a bit used but fairly inexpensive... 
Reply #30 Thursday, November 15, 2007 8:32 PM
Chet this is basically candy coating the fact that you are using someone elses customers and bandwidth for personal and commercial gains.. whats the saying?
If it walks like a duck and quack like a duck?
As I've said before.. being promoted to Master status and being afforded the opportunity to sell your skins to a couple of million folks a month.. that exposure is payment for being an interactive and contributive member of the community.
I can almost garuantee Stardock will agree with my point of view on this.. but we shall see.
If I am wrong.. I'll say it.
Reply #31 Thursday, November 15, 2007 8:35 PM
Yes, used goods are indeed often inexpensive...
Reply #32 Thursday, November 15, 2007 8:35 PM
Reply #33 Thursday, November 15, 2007 8:49 PM
Before this goes any further, I want to step in and say this.
Z71 has emailed me about this thread. The matter will be handled between him and myself. I will not stand for this thread turning into any sort of flame fest. If anyone has a problem with this, they should PM or email me.
Edit: Also, to make this easier in the future, I'm going to be working on some TOS updates to clarify stuff like this in the future. It'll help make sure.
Sorry if this seemed abrupt, but it just looked like emotions were starting to run high, I didn't want this turning into a major fight when it doesn't need to be.
Reply #34 Thursday, November 15, 2007 8:51 PM
As I said, people should be nice to each other. We are all interested in skinning, and are all friends
BTW, I'm still available second-hand
Reply #35 Thursday, November 15, 2007 8:58 PM
I thought we were
Reply #36 Thursday, November 15, 2007 10:34 PM
John's like the brother i never wanted but enjoy having around just to poke.
Anyways, I was just coming from a skinner/community-member side of things. I don't own a skinning business; don't have my own website; don't mod these forum and am not a Master skinner, so i speak only of my own experience within the community itself.
In addition, not all advertising is spamming. By definition, only disruptive and unsolicited advertising is considered SPAM. A community-member's advertising (in-context) isn't exactly unsolicited if he/she has a sympathetic audience, which I'd say most skinners, including vStyler himself does.
Reply #37 Thursday, November 15, 2007 10:40 PM
Reply #39 Thursday, November 15, 2007 10:54 PM
Reply #40 Thursday, November 15, 2007 11:40 PM
Chet's comment in #25 sums things up pretty nicely.
Technically there's no specific TOU policy regarding Master/commercial use re 'advertising' personal sites/sales.... but I feel the suggestion such would be 'spamming' is wrong.
Spamming requires a continuation/flood/series of such advertising/notifications....so at this stage a person notifying others on the Forums of a new 'commercial' skin sourced offsite is still skinning-specific [as is Jorge's [JCRabbit] for Winstep].
So, that said, Z71's post [I missed it before it was altered] would not currently be an issue as it too classifies as 'skinning news'.
This may be amended as and when it is demonstrated as a preferred option that those who DO achieve the level/privilege of selling works on Wincustomize undertake not to cross-advertise offsite works.
This of course will be something to be determined directly by Stardock, though open discussion is welcome here, too...
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Reply #21 Thursday, November 15, 2007 7:47 PM
There is a fine line when it comes to so called 'spamming'.....you just have to do it 'gentley' and with a 'subtle touch', like some others do