XP's Success Isn't Vista's Failure
Saturday, September 29, 2007 by Philly0381 | Discussion: Personal Computing
eWeek Microsoft Watch at times seems to be Microsoft's best friend, if you know what I mean. I've learned to read stuff on the internet much like I listen to talk radio. Read it or listen to it and then if I'm interested check it out.
Microsoft's decision to let OEMs sell Windows XP for six additional months is the right move. But continued XP demand isn't a knock against Windows Vista.
To that statement I say, Yeah, right!
Vista has gotten a bad rap, and Microsoft is partly to blame. In late 2003, Microsoft touted all the great—and, yes, truly innovative—features coming in Windows XP's successor. Later, Microsoft dumped most of the best stuff, failing to deliver on many Vista promises.
If Microsoft is only partly to blame, who gets the rest of the credit, who else is responsible?
WWW Link
Microsoft's decision to let OEMs sell Windows XP for six additional months is the right move. But continued XP demand isn't a knock against Windows Vista.
To that statement I say, Yeah, right!
Vista has gotten a bad rap, and Microsoft is partly to blame. In late 2003, Microsoft touted all the great—and, yes, truly innovative—features coming in Windows XP's successor. Later, Microsoft dumped most of the best stuff, failing to deliver on many Vista promises.
If Microsoft is only partly to blame, who gets the rest of the credit, who else is responsible?
WWW Link
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SanChonino
Reply #2 Saturday, September 29, 2007 11:59 AM
Reply #2 Saturday, September 29, 2007 11:59 AM
I like Vista.
I have an XP computer, a Vista computer, and two Ubuntu boxes. I use Ubuntu the most, but I probably use the Vista one as often as the XP one.
I have an XP computer, a Vista computer, and two Ubuntu boxes. I use Ubuntu the most, but I probably use the Vista one as often as the XP one.
vStyler
Reply #3 Saturday, September 29, 2007 12:00 PM
Reply #3 Saturday, September 29, 2007 12:00 PM
I dont like Vista
I have a dual boot..that may as well be a single boot.
I have a dual boot..that may as well be a single boot.
Philly0381
Reply #4 Saturday, September 29, 2007 12:11 PM
Reply #4 Saturday, September 29, 2007 12:11 PM
Agree with you Gideon.
This is not to say that they don't come up with good products, hence the consumers wanting to stay with XP. Myself, I'm still using XP Home.
Never used Windows ME so I can't compare. I'm just a consumer or user of their products. It takes, I'm sure a developer/programmer to say whether or not Vista does it better. I think it's been established that Vista does it differently.
I've done several posts this last week about Microsoft and it's adjustments in the market place as it deals with Vista and other problems like updates going total wonkers. Things doen't seem to be all well in the Microsoft Empire.
This is not to say that they don't come up with good products, hence the consumers wanting to stay with XP. Myself, I'm still using XP Home.
Never used Windows ME so I can't compare. I'm just a consumer or user of their products. It takes, I'm sure a developer/programmer to say whether or not Vista does it better. I think it's been established that Vista does it differently.
I've done several posts this last week about Microsoft and it's adjustments in the market place as it deals with Vista and other problems like updates going total wonkers. Things doen't seem to be all well in the Microsoft Empire.
NightTrainthedark
Reply #5 Saturday, September 29, 2007 12:11 PM
The consumers are 100% responsible. Vista offers nothing so groundbreaking that people have to have it. People had to have it even though it was untested and comes from a company with a poor track record. Experts said it was Windows ME all over again but you all still had to have the newest turd in the bowl despite blatent signs that you should wait. Your pushing the cart instead of riding in it.
Reply #5 Saturday, September 29, 2007 12:11 PM
If Microsoft is only partly to blame, who gets the rest of the credit, who else is responsible?
The consumers are 100% responsible. Vista offers nothing so groundbreaking that people have to have it. People had to have it even though it was untested and comes from a company with a poor track record. Experts said it was Windows ME all over again but you all still had to have the newest turd in the bowl despite blatent signs that you should wait. Your pushing the cart instead of riding in it.
Zouly
Reply #6 Saturday, September 29, 2007 12:15 PM
Reply #6 Saturday, September 29, 2007 12:15 PM
I think that it is commercial any Ca
(certe Microsoft did not hold unquestionable promise and fact of the copy…)
when xp left, I have buy it
all the world milked me the insane one that it was necessary to remain under 98 and that it was the best
Vista leaves, and here that I it achette too
same thing…
has to believe that new the operating softwares make fear…
soon the majority will be under Vista and will criticize the next program…
xp is very good and I am very contend of Vista into 64 bit…
(certe Microsoft did not hold unquestionable promise and fact of the copy…)
when xp left, I have buy it
all the world milked me the insane one that it was necessary to remain under 98 and that it was the best
Vista leaves, and here that I it achette too
same thing…
has to believe that new the operating softwares make fear…
soon the majority will be under Vista and will criticize the next program…
xp is very good and I am very contend of Vista into 64 bit…
Philly0381
Reply #7 Saturday, September 29, 2007 12:18 PM
I'm sure the "you all" is a general statement. When I post like this I always point out what OS I run. By the way, I don't have an iPhone either.
Reply #7 Saturday, September 29, 2007 12:18 PM
The consumers are 100% responsible. Vista offers nothing so groundbreaking that people have to have it. People had to have it even though it was untested and comes from a company with a poor track record. Experts said it was Windows ME all over again but you all still had to have the newest turd in the bowl despite blatent signs that you should wait. Your pushing the cart instead of riding in it.
I'm sure the "you all" is a general statement. When I post like this I always point out what OS I run. By the way, I don't have an iPhone either.
Gideon MacLeish
Reply #8 Saturday, September 29, 2007 12:23 PM
I don't have an iPhone either. For my main machine, I run a 2000/XP dual boot, and I have 3 Ubuntu boxes. I will be getting a laptop shortly, the laptop will have XP Pro, and I will run Vista in a virtual machine for diagnostic/troubleshooting purposes.
Reply #8 Saturday, September 29, 2007 12:23 PM
I'm sure the "you all" is a general statement. When I post like this I always point out what OS I run. By the way, I don't have an iPhone either.
I don't have an iPhone either. For my main machine, I run a 2000/XP dual boot, and I have 3 Ubuntu boxes. I will be getting a laptop shortly, the laptop will have XP Pro, and I will run Vista in a virtual machine for diagnostic/troubleshooting purposes.
Gideon MacLeish
Reply #9 Saturday, September 29, 2007 12:47 PM
When I talk with people about helping with their networking, I have a line I like to use:
"The computer should be a tool to HELP you do your job, not an obstacle that keeps you FROM doing your job. That's where I come in."
From my perspective, in dealing with end users with little technical expertise, I would have to say Vista most definitely does NOT do it better.
But that's just one man's opinion!
Reply #9 Saturday, September 29, 2007 12:47 PM
Never used Windows ME so I can't compare. I'm just a consumer or user of their products. It takes, I'm sure a developer/programmer to say whether or not Vista does it better. I think it's been established that Vista does it differently.
When I talk with people about helping with their networking, I have a line I like to use:
"The computer should be a tool to HELP you do your job, not an obstacle that keeps you FROM doing your job. That's where I come in."
From my perspective, in dealing with end users with little technical expertise, I would have to say Vista most definitely does NOT do it better.
But that's just one man's opinion!
Astyanax
Reply #10 Saturday, September 29, 2007 12:50 PM
Reply #10 Saturday, September 29, 2007 12:50 PM
I hate when people compared Vista to ME. It clearly shows they know nothing about either of the two operating systems.
Philly0381
Reply #11 Saturday, September 29, 2007 1:14 PM
Astyanax0, Gideon has somewhat of a good background in the IT world, you may also have the same. Not speaking for Gideon but I think he was comparing the fact they were/are OS's developed by Microsoft that had/have questionable qualities.
Reply #11 Saturday, September 29, 2007 1:14 PM
I hate when people compared Vista to ME. It clearly shows they know nothing about either of the two operating systems.
Astyanax0, Gideon has somewhat of a good background in the IT world, you may also have the same. Not speaking for Gideon but I think he was comparing the fact they were/are OS's developed by Microsoft that had/have questionable qualities.
Gideon MacLeish
Reply #12 Saturday, September 29, 2007 1:30 PM
Exactly.
I was comparing them from a marketing standpoint, not from a design standpoint. Of COURSE, two operating systems made seven years apart are going to be very different.
But what am I seeing that leads to the comparison?
--Both were rushed to the market because of consumer demand. ME to meet the timetable to take advantage of the Y2k promo, and Vista because of advancements in the Mac and Linux communities as well as 64 bit architecture.
--Both enjoyed immense immediate success as they were marketed as the next big thing.
--Both were brought out to replace operating systems that had become stable and reliable. 98 didn't look good in initial release, but by the time 98SE was released, it was a pretty decent O/S.
--Both saw a large number of customers "roll back" to their old operating systems because there were too many difficulties with the new O/S.
If anything, Vista is WORSE than ME. At least with ME, most of the games that ran on 95/98 would run on ME. Not true with Vista.
From a marketing standpoint, what is happening with Vista IS analogous to what happened with ME. And with Microsoft planning its next OS release in 2009, I would be hard pressed to believe they're going to spend a lot of time fixing the problems with Vista (again, another similarity. With ME, XP was already on the drawing board, so they didn't bother to fix it.)
Reply #12 Saturday, September 29, 2007 1:30 PM
Astyanax0, Gideon has somewhat of a good background in the IT world, you may also have the same. Not speaking for Gideon but I think he was comparing the fact they were/are OS's developed by Microsoft that had/have questionable qualities.
Exactly.
I was comparing them from a marketing standpoint, not from a design standpoint. Of COURSE, two operating systems made seven years apart are going to be very different.
But what am I seeing that leads to the comparison?
--Both were rushed to the market because of consumer demand. ME to meet the timetable to take advantage of the Y2k promo, and Vista because of advancements in the Mac and Linux communities as well as 64 bit architecture.
--Both enjoyed immense immediate success as they were marketed as the next big thing.
--Both were brought out to replace operating systems that had become stable and reliable. 98 didn't look good in initial release, but by the time 98SE was released, it was a pretty decent O/S.
--Both saw a large number of customers "roll back" to their old operating systems because there were too many difficulties with the new O/S.
If anything, Vista is WORSE than ME. At least with ME, most of the games that ran on 95/98 would run on ME. Not true with Vista.
From a marketing standpoint, what is happening with Vista IS analogous to what happened with ME. And with Microsoft planning its next OS release in 2009, I would be hard pressed to believe they're going to spend a lot of time fixing the problems with Vista (again, another similarity. With ME, XP was already on the drawing board, so they didn't bother to fix it.)
starkers
Reply #13 Saturday, September 29, 2007 1:31 PM
I think some of the PC manufacturers can bear some of the responsibility here....selling Vista machines with only 512mb RAM (2gig recommended) wouldn't help its cause: as in, "This piece of Vista crap keeps freezing up/BSOD'ing on me." couldn't be helping sales at all.
No amount of company hype will combat the consequence of bad word of mouth advertising ....a handful of disgruntled customers will spread the 'piece of crap' chorus faster than a virulent cancer.
And when you add to that, journalists (so-called experts in the trade) writing anti-Vista articles with the gusto of an Apple-Mac fanboi, you end up with a groundswell of anti-Vista speak that'd deter any would-be consumer of limited experience.
"Madam, could I interest you in this nice Vista unit....er, um!"
"I've heard those use too much electricity and you need a pilots license to operate it, NO THANK YOU!!!! I'll take one of those XP ones, thank you."
"But madam, we've put the price of those up $200 and they actually cost 35% more than the Vista ones because we have a glut of those and only a handful of XP ones."
"No matter, all my friends say Vista is rubbish, so I'll take XP a thrice the price to be sure I get a computer that works."
And there you have it, the race of human sheep blindly following the expertise of newspaper hacks and blithering idiots who wouldn't know a Vista system even if it was to jump up and byte 'em on the arse.
Reply #13 Saturday, September 29, 2007 1:31 PM
If Microsoft is only partly to blame, who gets the rest of the credit, who else is responsible?
I think some of the PC manufacturers can bear some of the responsibility here....selling Vista machines with only 512mb RAM (2gig recommended) wouldn't help its cause: as in, "This piece of Vista crap keeps freezing up/BSOD'ing on me." couldn't be helping sales at all.
No amount of company hype will combat the consequence of bad word of mouth advertising ....a handful of disgruntled customers will spread the 'piece of crap' chorus faster than a virulent cancer.
And when you add to that, journalists (so-called experts in the trade) writing anti-Vista articles with the gusto of an Apple-Mac fanboi, you end up with a groundswell of anti-Vista speak that'd deter any would-be consumer of limited experience.
"Madam, could I interest you in this nice Vista unit....er, um!"
"I've heard those use too much electricity and you need a pilots license to operate it, NO THANK YOU!!!! I'll take one of those XP ones, thank you."
"But madam, we've put the price of those up $200 and they actually cost 35% more than the Vista ones because we have a glut of those and only a handful of XP ones."
"No matter, all my friends say Vista is rubbish, so I'll take XP a thrice the price to be sure I get a computer that works."
And there you have it, the race of human sheep blindly following the expertise of newspaper hacks and blithering idiots who wouldn't know a Vista system even if it was to jump up and byte 'em on the arse.
Gideon MacLeish
Reply #14 Saturday, September 29, 2007 1:38 PM
Very true.
I usually tell people, if Microsoft says it needs x amount of memory to operate, consider that memory reserved for the OS alone. Make sure your other apps have at least as much memory. In other words, DOUBLE it!
In the case of Vista, because Aero requires 1gb, I believe 1gb, not 512mb, is the number you should be doubling. I have heard of zero performance issues on a Vista computer running 2gb RAM (assuming all of the other hardware components are in line!)
Reply #14 Saturday, September 29, 2007 1:38 PM
I think some of the PC manufacturers can bear some of the responsibility here....selling Vista machines with only 512mb RAM (2gig recommended) wouldn't help its cause: as in, "This piece of Vista crap keeps freezing up/BSOD'ing on me." couldn't be helping sales at all.
Very true.
I usually tell people, if Microsoft says it needs x amount of memory to operate, consider that memory reserved for the OS alone. Make sure your other apps have at least as much memory. In other words, DOUBLE it!
In the case of Vista, because Aero requires 1gb, I believe 1gb, not 512mb, is the number you should be doubling. I have heard of zero performance issues on a Vista computer running 2gb RAM (assuming all of the other hardware components are in line!)
Gideon MacLeish
Reply #15 Saturday, September 29, 2007 1:43 PM
Reply #15 Saturday, September 29, 2007 1:43 PM
Actually, starkers, when I get my XP Pro laptop built, it's going to be comparable to the price of a Vista build (considering I wouldn't buy Vista home). But in many cases, yes, a premium is charged.
vStyler
Reply #16 Saturday, September 29, 2007 2:27 PM
You forgot ..In your opinion. I hate it when people compare people to people. It clearly shows they don't know people.
ME....Vista... both mediocre failur-esqe OS's After months of feedback it looks to me about 75-25 negative feedback, please feel free to enlighten me with dazzling satisafaction statistics ... if you can.
Vista didn't inherit the ME2 nickname worldwide for it's superfluous success...now did it?
I know this.. ME wasn't worth a damn, Vista isn't worth a damn, Thats as clear a comparison as i need.
Clearly you'll think I'm wrong.
Reply #16 Saturday, September 29, 2007 2:27 PM
I hate when people compared Vista to ME. It clearly shows they know nothing about either of the two operating systems.
You forgot ..In your opinion.
I hate it when people compare people to people. It clearly shows they don't know people.ME....Vista... both mediocre failur-esqe OS's After months of feedback it looks to me about 75-25 negative feedback, please feel free to enlighten me with dazzling satisafaction statistics ... if you can.
Vista didn't inherit the ME2 nickname worldwide for it's superfluous success...now did it?
I know this.. ME wasn't worth a damn, Vista isn't worth a damn, Thats as clear a comparison as i need.
Clearly you'll think I'm wrong.
Murex
Reply #17 Saturday, September 29, 2007 3:43 PM
Reply #17 Saturday, September 29, 2007 3:43 PM
I stayed away from Vista because of all the bad things I heard about Vista . Well I finally decided to try it and find out just how bad it was. At first I didn't like it. But the more I worked with it the better I liked Vista.
Yes I had some problems, A few of my programs wouldn't work and I had driver issues. A few searches on Google and I had the drivers that I needed.
Some of my problems were.
1 Couldn't turn off UAC. (Tweak Vista from Stardock solved that problem)
2 Couldn't (and still can't change any power settings).
3 My Kitchen design program still won't work right
For the most part I really haven't had a lot of really big problems and I find that I use Vista more then I use XP now (dual boot) The one thing that really bugs me is there are an awful lot of programs in Vista that wants to access the internet.
I am running Vista Ultimate
AMD 64x2 Dual Core 3800+ 2.01 GHz
2 Gigs Ram
BFG 8600 GT OT
So far I am happy using Vista.
Yes I had some problems, A few of my programs wouldn't work and I had driver issues. A few searches on Google and I had the drivers that I needed.
Some of my problems were.
1 Couldn't turn off UAC. (Tweak Vista from Stardock solved that problem)
2 Couldn't (and still can't change any power settings).
3 My Kitchen design program still won't work right
For the most part I really haven't had a lot of really big problems and I find that I use Vista more then I use XP now (dual boot) The one thing that really bugs me is there are an awful lot of programs in Vista that wants to access the internet.
I am running Vista Ultimate
AMD 64x2 Dual Core 3800+ 2.01 GHz
2 Gigs Ram
BFG 8600 GT OT
So far I am happy using Vista.
Astyanax
Reply #18 Saturday, September 29, 2007 4:58 PM
I wasn't directing that right at him, it was more of a general statement. I just know sooner or later someone will say it.
Not in my opinion. It's just plain old fact. Microsoft wouldn't spend Billions creating an OS that would be considered the next Windows ME. You can't blame them for poorly done drivers by 3rd party developers. It's like blaming a car dealership for you getting in an accident while driving drunk.
Reply #18 Saturday, September 29, 2007 4:58 PM
Astyanax0, Gideon has somewhat of a good background in the IT world, you may also have the same. Not speaking for Gideon but I think he was comparing the fact they were/are OS's developed by Microsoft that had/have questionable qualities.
I wasn't directing that right at him, it was more of a general statement. I just know sooner or later someone will say it.
You forgot ..In your opinion. I hate it when people compare people to people. It clearly shows they don't know people.
Not in my opinion. It's just plain old fact. Microsoft wouldn't spend Billions creating an OS that would be considered the next Windows ME. You can't blame them for poorly done drivers by 3rd party developers. It's like blaming a car dealership for you getting in an accident while driving drunk.
Philly0381
Reply #19 Saturday, September 29, 2007 5:02 PM
Reply #19 Saturday, September 29, 2007 5:02 PM
So Astyanax0, why do you feel it's not a fair comparison?
Astyanax
Reply #20 Saturday, September 29, 2007 5:07 PM
Windows ME was released simply for people to have something while Windows 2000 was under development. It was nothing more than a piece of junk place holder, riddled with serious problems and poorly done. Windows Vista is the exact opposite; It's not meant as a bookmark for Vienna/Seven (Yes i know MS claims they will have it out in less than 2 1/2 years, but lets be real here, its going to be 3-4 years). Unlike ME, Vista has many new features and improvements added onto it. Be it Security, Stability, a new DirectX, more enhanced UI, memory management that dances around Windows XP's memory management, I can keep going if I really felt like it.
You can't blame Microsoft for companies like nVidia and Creative dropping the ball on hardware support.
I think alot of people forget that this whole *Stick with XP till the End* thing happened when XP was released and 2000 had been the OS of choice. I'll bet money on the fact that it will happen yet again when MS releases the next OS as well.
Give it a year or so, new apps will come out that take advantage of the new features Vista has and people will drop the whole crusade agaisnt Vista.
Reply #20 Saturday, September 29, 2007 5:07 PM
So Astyanax0, why do you feel it's not a fair comparison?
Windows ME was released simply for people to have something while Windows 2000 was under development. It was nothing more than a piece of junk place holder, riddled with serious problems and poorly done. Windows Vista is the exact opposite; It's not meant as a bookmark for Vienna/Seven (Yes i know MS claims they will have it out in less than 2 1/2 years, but lets be real here, its going to be 3-4 years). Unlike ME, Vista has many new features and improvements added onto it. Be it Security, Stability, a new DirectX, more enhanced UI, memory management that dances around Windows XP's memory management, I can keep going if I really felt like it.
You can't blame Microsoft for companies like nVidia and Creative dropping the ball on hardware support.
I think alot of people forget that this whole *Stick with XP till the End* thing happened when XP was released and 2000 had been the OS of choice. I'll bet money on the fact that it will happen yet again when MS releases the next OS as well.
Give it a year or so, new apps will come out that take advantage of the new features Vista has and people will drop the whole crusade agaisnt Vista.
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Reply #1 Saturday, September 29, 2007 11:56 AM
Microsoft is, I believe, running scared. They're concerned, and rightly so, that the large scale frustration with Vista amounts to a "no confidence" vote by the consumers, and that they will no longer be able to dominate the market as they have for so long.
While there are no heirs apparent as of yet, I think it's safe to say that Vista has, at the very least, inspired other OS developers to bring their ideas to the table.