Trolls Commenting on Skins
Saturday, July 21, 2007 by SKoriginals | Discussion: Community
Hi all, I guess this is mostly for the admins here at WC....
Over the years there has been discussion on how to handle skin comments (i.e. the unproductive ones). Some of the suggestions have been to give the uploader the option to allow comments or not (via a check box or the like) and another has been a 'report' button to have the violating comment reviewed by an admin. I'm just curious as to if this discussion is still being mulled over or if it has been placed to the wayside.
The reason for this is I have noticed some 'trolls' hounding particular skinners making comments on many of the skinners downloads; even master skinners have had this happen. I won't mention names or any skins themselves but it has happened recently on a 'master' skin. The comments barely even touched base on the skin itself even... it was pure nonsense and started a rant for no true reason.
Personally I see this as very counter productive for all. I can understand meaningless rants in the forums more so then on skin comments.
Anyhow, I was just wondering if anything was still being thought out for this sort of thing or forgotten about.
Over the years there has been discussion on how to handle skin comments (i.e. the unproductive ones). Some of the suggestions have been to give the uploader the option to allow comments or not (via a check box or the like) and another has been a 'report' button to have the violating comment reviewed by an admin. I'm just curious as to if this discussion is still being mulled over or if it has been placed to the wayside.
The reason for this is I have noticed some 'trolls' hounding particular skinners making comments on many of the skinners downloads; even master skinners have had this happen. I won't mention names or any skins themselves but it has happened recently on a 'master' skin. The comments barely even touched base on the skin itself even... it was pure nonsense and started a rant for no true reason.
Personally I see this as very counter productive for all. I can understand meaningless rants in the forums more so then on skin comments.
Anyhow, I was just wondering if anything was still being thought out for this sort of thing or forgotten about.
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alongview
Reply #22 Sunday, July 22, 2007 12:54 PM
Seriously,your boot's comments didn't look harmful,except the one vocabulary:"sick". And the master skin's comments are the feedback from that purchaser which both comments all regarding the "skin" itself,not on the skinners.
However,after rummaging this thread of skinner's works,I found someone's slate not very clean by himself. If the report button and the strictly "not positive" comment rule was applying before,this skinner should be long gone,isn't it??
WWW Link 1
"nothing more. Zero originality. IMO this goes against everything I think skinning is, anti-skinning so to speak and although I suppose it has its place, I find it almost offensive......."
WWW Link 2
"That said.. and this is only my opinion but it seems to me that most all the Master WB's released so far seem sort of plain and at least to me lack that "x-factor"......."
WWW Link 3
"I have to agree, if ur gonna do a tribute skin, you shouldn't charge for it, unless some % of proceeds are going to the families, its in bad taste imo."
"Great that you updated it but honestly its still poor judgment and in bad taste..imo.. for you to make money from someone elses tragedy. It's a pity from someone with your reputation."
Reply #22 Sunday, July 22, 2007 12:54 PM
about "negative" we talk about no sens comments, harassing comments with question non regarding the skins but the skinners, insulting comments ....
Seriously,your boot's comments didn't look harmful,except the one vocabulary:"sick". And the master skin's comments are the feedback from that purchaser which both comments all regarding the "skin" itself,not on the skinners.
However,after rummaging this thread of skinner's works,I found someone's slate not very clean by himself. If the report button and the strictly "not positive" comment rule was applying before,this skinner should be long gone,isn't it??
WWW Link 1
"nothing more. Zero originality. IMO this goes against everything I think skinning is, anti-skinning so to speak and although I suppose it has its place, I find it almost offensive......."
WWW Link 2
"That said.. and this is only my opinion but it seems to me that most all the Master WB's released so far seem sort of plain and at least to me lack that "x-factor"......."
WWW Link 3
"I have to agree, if ur gonna do a tribute skin, you shouldn't charge for it, unless some % of proceeds are going to the families, its in bad taste imo."
"Great that you updated it but honestly its still poor judgment and in bad taste..imo.. for you to make money from someone elses tragedy. It's a pity from someone with your reputation."
SKoriginals
Reply #23 Sunday, July 22, 2007 12:57 PM
Reply #23 Sunday, July 22, 2007 12:57 PM
Many still seem to be missing the point. Its not negative comments towards the skin but, comments that are negative and that have nothing to do with the skin. It is not about protecting 'some skinners' cocky attitudes' or 'the ability to censor the comments' or 'less than pleasant comments'.
I have seen comments that are both bashing the skinner and/or the program the skin was made for. And as much as we would just like to ignore them, they generally start a rant where the skinner and others are posting back to the original. These are the ones I think should be reported. With a 'button' for reporting these types of comments a regular system will be in place for admins to review such items without someone having to hunt them down and hope they connect with the proper person for action to be taken if warranted.
This is not about general negative comments such as "I don't like the skin for blah blah reason." I never intended for that to be the case and neither should the admins. As I said above in comment #10...
Granted something like a 'button' might be abused but so are all things by such people who wish to do so. Maybe a message above a text box (for the purpose of the 'report') that states what it is intended for and a general 'rule' for what is allowable and not.
I have seen comments that are both bashing the skinner and/or the program the skin was made for. And as much as we would just like to ignore them, they generally start a rant where the skinner and others are posting back to the original. These are the ones I think should be reported. With a 'button' for reporting these types of comments a regular system will be in place for admins to review such items without someone having to hunt them down and hope they connect with the proper person for action to be taken if warranted.
This is not about general negative comments such as "I don't like the skin for blah blah reason." I never intended for that to be the case and neither should the admins. As I said above in comment #10...
The point is not 'bad' comments towards the skins; those are fine and should be tolerated by anyone who uploads. People do have opinions and are entitled to them.
Granted something like a 'button' might be abused but so are all things by such people who wish to do so. Maybe a message above a text box (for the purpose of the 'report') that states what it is intended for and a general 'rule' for what is allowable and not.
alongview
Reply #24 Sunday, July 22, 2007 1:08 PM
Reply #24 Sunday, July 22, 2007 1:08 PM
SKoriginals,
I really don't know what the difference between "PM administrators" with "Report button" on comment area. It was more convenient for administrators dealing one by one than having plethora of "report mails".
I really don't know what the difference between "PM administrators" with "Report button" on comment area. It was more convenient for administrators dealing one by one than having plethora of "report mails".
ArileenDesign
Reply #25 Sunday, July 22, 2007 1:27 PM
If sorry but i guess you talk about the earth when we talk about the sun
regarding my boot comment it's not harmful it's no sens cause a skinner made skin for him and share i've done a car boot i'm not gonna make one million cars boot with all style of boot and this kind of comment is an example nothing more.
regarding your answer:
you linked/quote comments but cut them out of context nice isn't it
we don't talk about not positive comments but insulting/harassing/nosens comments please if you don't know what you talk about inform you and read this kind of comments...
if you read the skins comments i linked you should understand that there are limits like racism.... and we talk about those limits not:
trolls: "i don't like this skin and skinner"
skinner: "i reported"
mods: "you are banned"
we talk about:
Trolls: " you are a %$£####//*-R{[]ao€ and your skins too
admin/mods: "you should be more nice and stop harassing/insulting before get banned"
Trolls " you are a$$#### you and your sit""""
you can expect the suite
i hope you get the picture know we try to debate about a real issue
Reply #25 Sunday, July 22, 2007 1:27 PM
Seriously,your boot's comments didn't look harmful,except the one vocabulary:"sick". And the master skin's comments are the feedback from that purchaser which both comments all regarding the "skin" itself,not on the skinners.
However,after rummaging this thread of skinner's works,I found someone's slate not very clean by himself. If the report button and the strictly "not positive" comment rule was applying before,this skinner should be long gone,isn't it??
However,after rummaging this thread of skinner's works,I found someone's slate not very clean by himself. If the report button and the strictly "not positive" comment rule was applying before,this skinner should be long gone,isn't it??
If sorry but i guess you talk about the earth when we talk about the sun
regarding my boot comment it's not harmful it's no sens cause a skinner made skin for him and share i've done a car boot i'm not gonna make one million cars boot with all style of boot and this kind of comment is an example nothing more.
regarding your answer:
you linked/quote comments but cut them out of context nice isn't it
we don't talk about not positive comments but insulting/harassing/nosens comments please if you don't know what you talk about inform you and read this kind of comments...
if you read the skins comments i linked you should understand that there are limits like racism.... and we talk about those limits not:
trolls: "i don't like this skin and skinner"
skinner: "i reported"
mods: "you are banned"
we talk about:
Trolls: " you are a %$£####//*-R{[]ao€ and your skins too
admin/mods: "you should be more nice and stop harassing/insulting before get banned"
Trolls " you are a$$#### you and your sit""""
you can expect the suite
i hope you get the picture know we try to debate about a real issue
SKoriginals
Reply #26 Sunday, July 22, 2007 1:37 PM
Reply #26 Sunday, July 22, 2007 1:37 PM
alongview, There is a difference, You would have to hunt down an admin (and maybe in some cases hope you got the right one) and the PM boxes have a 'limit' to the # of messages they hold. PMing is also not the easiest thing here on WC and I'm sure not very easy for a newbie. Now a 'button' might be abused as I stated above, hell it probably would. This whole thing is just to discuss the possibilities of what could be done as a regular feature. Maybe such a button should only be visible to the skinners themselves who created the upload. I don't know to be honest. I was just thinking that a regular and easy way to do such a thing could be put into place.
Maybe I should also state that personally I have had to deal very little (if at all) with such comments. I have also had my fair share of negative comments about this skin or that (take a look at my Psycho skin, plenty of "the color stinks" comments) and those have never bothered me. They are fine and I don't discourage that nor would I ever. But, others have and it puts a bad taste in my mouth that skinners have had to put up with non-skin related comments. Granted they are not very common but they do exist.
Maybe I should also state that personally I have had to deal very little (if at all) with such comments. I have also had my fair share of negative comments about this skin or that (take a look at my Psycho skin, plenty of "the color stinks" comments) and those have never bothered me. They are fine and I don't discourage that nor would I ever. But, others have and it puts a bad taste in my mouth that skinners have had to put up with non-skin related comments. Granted they are not very common but they do exist.
Bichur
Reply #27 Sunday, July 22, 2007 3:07 PM
I did too...
Feb 1st (as well you know)
However... as far as iTROLLs go... open season.
I got it. I'm not a skinner, but I understand that negative comments towards a skin if looked at with the right slant can be viewed as poorly worded constructive criticism, as long as there enough info given. "This color scheme is unusable" is not as helpful as "this color scheme is unusable, there's not enough contrast between the avocado gold background and the golden green font"
Reply #27 Sunday, July 22, 2007 3:07 PM
Darn, I thought this was gonna be about Bichur..
I did too...
Is it Troll Thumping day already?
Feb 1st (as well you know)
However... as far as iTROLLs go... open season.
Many still seem to be missing the point. Its not negative comments towards the skin
I got it. I'm not a skinner, but I understand that negative comments towards a skin if looked at with the right slant can be viewed as poorly worded constructive criticism, as long as there enough info given. "This color scheme is unusable" is not as helpful as "this color scheme is unusable, there's not enough contrast between the avocado gold background and the golden green font"
ArileenDesign
Reply #28 Sunday, July 22, 2007 3:11 PM
Reply #28 Sunday, July 22, 2007 3:11 PM
SIR Bichur :
Trolling or Insightful that's the question
psst: mine is a troll's comment
:Trolling or Insightful that's the question
psst: mine is a troll's comment
vStyler
Reply #29 Sunday, July 22, 2007 3:34 PM
Reply #29 Sunday, July 22, 2007 3:34 PM
SK.. seems your wasting your time. It's apparent that WC's desire to protect free speech surpasses its abilty to protect it's users. I've made a point to complain at the highest levels about certain users.. to no avail. If I personally continue to be harrassed by the same people who seem to be unimpuned regardless of obvious selective trolling of my work and comments..I'll just get fed up with it and leave. Its getting REALLY old, REALLY quick
The comment in my master skin was nothing more than another in a long stream of criticism from the same user about things that frankly are none of his business, everything that was mentioned in the critique are things that had been brought up before and answered by me. It was just one more pathetic attempt to bismirch my reputation and work. Why? I don't know, but it seems obvious to me that it is someone who has been resentful of my success and bent on making it his personal cause to knock me down. Perhaps another skinner using an alias, perhaps a friend of one. Either way i am not the only person who maintains this view of him. Several other people have approached me, unsolicited, with the same opinion. Curious eh?
To alongview..or whoever you are.. you found three comments of mine.. out of thousands? (none of which I would take back and still view as bona fide criticism) Wow.. real good, you have proved that my negative comments were not only..far back, but in comparison ..a miniscule percentage of my positive ones. You will also find that I have not at any time singled anyone out and continued to harrass them. I have also made it a point to temper my responses. btw I looked at your profile, what a surprise, you just recently joined. Zero downloads, zero uploads, non-customer, non-subscriber.. why are you so entrenched in this debate may i ask? An alias perhaps? I would almost bet my life you are the same person harrassing me.. you don't disguise yourself very well, anyone with any sense can compare your commenting style\use of language and see your the same person. How else could you POSSIBLY have found those comments of mine amid thousands of comments.. so quickly? Haha.. see you have bitten off a litle more than you can chew..I told you a while back if you continued I would expose you and I'm about to. You picked on the wrong skinner bud
For those of you that doubt me, take the time to look through my submission threads and my comments and look for a common denominator.. then compare to this thread.
Admins, I ask someone to step in here.
The comment in my master skin was nothing more than another in a long stream of criticism from the same user about things that frankly are none of his business, everything that was mentioned in the critique are things that had been brought up before and answered by me. It was just one more pathetic attempt to bismirch my reputation and work. Why? I don't know, but it seems obvious to me that it is someone who has been resentful of my success and bent on making it his personal cause to knock me down. Perhaps another skinner using an alias, perhaps a friend of one. Either way i am not the only person who maintains this view of him. Several other people have approached me, unsolicited, with the same opinion. Curious eh?
To alongview..or whoever you are.. you found three comments of mine.. out of thousands? (none of which I would take back and still view as bona fide criticism) Wow.. real good, you have proved that my negative comments were not only..far back, but in comparison ..a miniscule percentage of my positive ones. You will also find that I have not at any time singled anyone out and continued to harrass them. I have also made it a point to temper my responses. btw I looked at your profile, what a surprise, you just recently joined. Zero downloads, zero uploads, non-customer, non-subscriber.. why are you so entrenched in this debate may i ask? An alias perhaps? I would almost bet my life you are the same person harrassing me.. you don't disguise yourself very well, anyone with any sense can compare your commenting style\use of language and see your the same person. How else could you POSSIBLY have found those comments of mine amid thousands of comments.. so quickly? Haha.. see you have bitten off a litle more than you can chew..I told you a while back if you continued I would expose you and I'm about to. You picked on the wrong skinner bud
For those of you that doubt me, take the time to look through my submission threads and my comments and look for a common denominator.. then compare to this thread.
Admins, I ask someone to step in here.
M3shuggah
Reply #30 Sunday, July 22, 2007 5:15 PM
Reply #30 Sunday, July 22, 2007 5:15 PM
I will say that in the past I have been very critical of Master Skinner's themes and have maybe even flamed them myself, however, they are the best of the best, and should be challenged the most when creating skins. When it comes to charging for themes as well, the bar should be even higher than the free themes, and so should the judging. When the first Vista-charge theme came out, I was very critical of it because in many ways it was incomplete, and they were charging people to have a "Vista-compatible" theme when in many ways it wasn't compatible.
I am a fan of vStyler's work and it shows throughout my posting here at wincustomize. I was strongly critical of other Masters' work, especially when vStyler wasn't a Master yet, and his themes were of a caliber higher than the other themers at the time (in my opinion). However, now that he is a Master, I am judging the Masters' work a little bit differently. We know the fiasco that is Vista themeing, and until WB6/SK6 is out, we will not have 100% feature complete Vista skins. With that said, I'll go back to the topic.
Everyone has opinions on what is bad and good about a theme, but nitpicking someones theme because it is 1MB bigger is ridiculous. How many Stardock users are even on 56k? How many of Stardock users have small hard drives? This is 2007, and I'm sorry, but if a megabyte is your only complaint, it shouldn't be a complaint. Whoever Nicholasworld/alongview is, he is someone who is jaded to vStyler, for whatever reason. His opinions are nothing more than tireless banter and he is usually the only person complaining.
A lot of the top Master Skinners haven't made themes in months, and yet vStyler is constantly banging them out. And then he gets flamed for it? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
I do think you, vStyler, should calm down a little though. If you directly attack someone, even if he is attacking you, it shows your character as well. Let him continue to look like a moron, and eventually the entire community will not even listen to his complaints. Many have already seen that he complains about every theme you create. Eventually, he will mess up and will be exposed.
On the internet, everyone is a critique, and people have to realize that. Whether or not their reasoning is good however, is left up to the users and the creators. Just remember though...just because you post on a profile that has no data, doesn't mean you don't know what you are talking about. *cough*hint hint*me*.
I am a fan of vStyler's work and it shows throughout my posting here at wincustomize. I was strongly critical of other Masters' work, especially when vStyler wasn't a Master yet, and his themes were of a caliber higher than the other themers at the time (in my opinion). However, now that he is a Master, I am judging the Masters' work a little bit differently. We know the fiasco that is Vista themeing, and until WB6/SK6 is out, we will not have 100% feature complete Vista skins. With that said, I'll go back to the topic.
Everyone has opinions on what is bad and good about a theme, but nitpicking someones theme because it is 1MB bigger is ridiculous. How many Stardock users are even on 56k? How many of Stardock users have small hard drives? This is 2007, and I'm sorry, but if a megabyte is your only complaint, it shouldn't be a complaint. Whoever Nicholasworld/alongview is, he is someone who is jaded to vStyler, for whatever reason. His opinions are nothing more than tireless banter and he is usually the only person complaining.
A lot of the top Master Skinners haven't made themes in months, and yet vStyler is constantly banging them out. And then he gets flamed for it? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
I do think you, vStyler, should calm down a little though. If you directly attack someone, even if he is attacking you, it shows your character as well. Let him continue to look like a moron, and eventually the entire community will not even listen to his complaints. Many have already seen that he complains about every theme you create. Eventually, he will mess up and will be exposed.
On the internet, everyone is a critique, and people have to realize that. Whether or not their reasoning is good however, is left up to the users and the creators. Just remember though...just because you post on a profile that has no data, doesn't mean you don't know what you are talking about. *cough*hint hint*me*.
vStyler
Reply #31 Sunday, July 22, 2007 5:22 PM
I've been calm thus far, when it starts affecting my income, it affects not only me but my family too... and that I will not stand for.
Reply #31 Sunday, July 22, 2007 5:22 PM
should calm down a little though.
I've been calm thus far, when it starts affecting my income, it affects not only me but my family too... and that I will not stand for.
I.R. Brainiac
Reply #32 Sunday, July 22, 2007 6:20 PM
Reply #32 Sunday, July 22, 2007 6:20 PM
Yep,negative comments about the skin are fine...its every users right to critique.
But a campaign to slander a skinner is another thing entirely.While we are at it...whe can do without Pixel Punk using every mastertheme comment section as his personal anti-Stardock skin sales podium.He dosnt really comment on the skin except in some lame backhanded fashion to justify his 'why aint this free?'bitching.
If he wants to complain,thats fine...do it in the forums.
But a campaign to slander a skinner is another thing entirely.While we are at it...whe can do without Pixel Punk using every mastertheme comment section as his personal anti-Stardock skin sales podium.He dosnt really comment on the skin except in some lame backhanded fashion to justify his 'why aint this free?'bitching.
If he wants to complain,thats fine...do it in the forums.
Jafo
Reply #33 Sunday, July 22, 2007 8:37 PM
Reply #33 Sunday, July 22, 2007 8:37 PM
The Wincustomize admins/mods DO keep an eye on things, particularly potential sources of friction.
It is unfortunate that some members will use a skin's comment area to pursue an agenda, but, if there is actual genuine relevance to the skin then it really should stay [not be removed].
What is NOT acceptable though is the instance of religious vilification on one person's works, or, in the case of vStyler's an apparent vendetta against him by another member.
The Admin intervention in the former instance appeared to 'work' without need for follow-up.
That in the latter clearly did not, so the person has now been removed.
If anyone has an issue with a skin comment then any mod, or myself or Zoomba would be suitable to contact....as even if they are not the 'ideal' person it will be passed on to someone who can act on it.
I believe the feature of 'report this comment' button is in the works for WC2K8...so 'all should be good'...
Zoomba
Reply #34 Sunday, July 22, 2007 8:53 PM
Reply #34 Sunday, July 22, 2007 8:53 PM
Like Jafo said above, we do keep an eye out for problem users, and do intervene behind the scenes when things go over the line. However, we almost always do this privately, and don't hash it out on the forums for everyone to see. The result is that sometimes people can get the impression that we're not doing anything to respond.
Our preference is to deal with problems and problematic users one-on-one. The results are pretty much universally better than going through the steps in front of everyone. And if a user chooses to not heed warnings issued (and we give many warnings and opportunities), then they're pulled.
vStyler
Reply #35 Monday, July 23, 2007 12:05 AM
Reply #35 Monday, July 23, 2007 12:05 AM
Thanks for responding on this, I appreciate it. Sorry it had to be escalated to this point, I attempted to avoid it.
Vampothika
Reply #38 Friday, July 27, 2007 7:19 AM
Reply #38 Friday, July 27, 2007 7:19 AM
gotta new troll on my skin wednesdays nightmare......go there just for a laugh if you want, its that rediculous, the stupid gutterslag has a campaign about me copyrighting a 'cross with wings' of all stupid things to pick about...and its not even copyrighted, either way ive reported the matter to zoomba, and something will be done pronto im sure...
especially when people work so hard on their work and to have just stupid rubbish like that thrown at them, either way, im over it.....another nicolasworld to me, just a pain in the ass with nothin better to do with their time then try to piss off someone in the win community........
especially when people work so hard on their work and to have just stupid rubbish like that thrown at them, either way, im over it.....another nicolasworld to me, just a pain in the ass with nothin better to do with their time then try to piss off someone in the win community........
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Reply #21 Sunday, July 22, 2007 12:33 PM