Leave and NEVER come back.
Those who would impose their wills on us are not welcome here
Friday, March 2, 2007 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
WinCustomize is a PG-13 site. It is also a site where people are encouraged to discuss issues on skinning and customization in an open environment.
But over the past few yeras, I've watched WinCustomize's forums degrade from being the central point in the skinning community for discussion of skins and themes to being a monolithic forum filled with self-appointed elites who stifle contrarian thoughts and opinions through bullying and intimidation.
That ends now. When we launched WC2K7, I made clear that I would be stepping in to put an end to the rank elitism that permeates the forums from time to time.
To those who would attack, insult, or demean others for having different points of view I say leave and NEVER come back. To those who use the arguemnt "This is a family site" as a shield to impose their own brand of tyranny you are not welcome here.
This site is not designed for people who are under the age of 13. We are not catering to children. We are catering to adults but allow people who are 13 and over. We allow people to discuss and disagree issues.
An incident occurred in this thread that provides an opportunity for us to make clear that those who would try to bury discussion with threats will not longer be welcome here.
For too long, people have used the threat of removing their works to crush disent to their opinions. When someone threatens to take their creations and leave the discussion always changes from what was being discussed to trying to convince the offended to stay. Over time, this has resulted in a great loss in diversity of thought and discussion on this site.
What this community does not need are a handful of self-appointed elitists trying to force their points of view down the throats of others.
This is a COMMUNITY site. It is not a site for snobby, self important elites who get kicks out of trying to bully others and impose their wills on others.
To any skinner or user woh has a problem with this. Leave and never come back. Remove your things and GO. GO NOW and never ever return.
From here on, if I see someone trying to force their opinion or end a discussion they disagree with by threatening to remove their creations and leave, I will force the issue. I will exile them and have their works deleted from this site.
We want a community where people feel comfortable discussing any issue that relates to skinning and customization without fear of reprisal, personal attack, or intimidation.
If someone disagrees with a policy of the site, a decision of the moderators, or has a problem with a user, let it be discussed civily and openly without someone commanding others to adhere to their demands lest they take their things and go. Because that time is over now.
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Reply #42 Friday, March 2, 2007 9:50 PM
Pumakitten: I'm sorry about your niece but that reasoning is totally illogical. MOST people have images such as what's above on their hard drives. It's a girl. In a swimsuit. An adult girl. You also have the image on your computer -- it's in your cache.
But here's the point: In an OPEN community such as ours, we have the right to disagree. Do I make myself clear: You have the right to an opinion and someone else has the right to disagree with your opinion.
Your rights end where someone else's begins. You do not have the right to go on and start insulting other people.
And most of us, nobody has the right to try to bully others into accepting their opinion. I have seen people threaten to leave and pull their work not because they really want to leave but because they know that this site is full of reasonable, kind people who don't want talented people to go.
The proof is self-evident, the people who make these kinds of "I'm going to pull my stuff and go" threats almost always have deviantART accounts where there's a ton of content like that picture as well as images that are far more provacative.
And all I'm saying is that if I see someone make a threat to pull their work and leave if they don't get their way, I'm going to make it happen for them. I'll wipe their stuf fand exile them and they will never be allowed to return.
Just to restate it: A person's rights end where another person's rights begin.
Reply #43 Friday, March 2, 2007 10:04 PM
That's a kind of broad assumption, and I don't even want to think of what may or may not of been on that computer or I'll gag on my own vomit. And before meandering into an obscure discussion on child porn, I think we need to stay on the real issue.
Censorship based on one cultures'/group of people's perspective is still censorship. That's the reason I phrased it the way I did in the original post. We all form are views based on our past experiences and beliefs but, implying that my view is the right view would simply be ridiculous not to mention naive.
That sums it up a heck of a lot better than I'm trying to put it.
Reply #44 Friday, March 2, 2007 11:00 PM
Simply put, internet is composed of many different kinds of people. You can't just go and impose your view on the community. What's so funny about this whole thing is this... anyone can just up and leave for good. It's not like you are forced at gunpoint to view this site.
Reply #46 Saturday, March 3, 2007 1:16 AM
My subscription here ends in 2010. I will sign up again before that. I have been a member since 1999 and will probably remain here til my death or the demise of the internet. LOL. Whichever comes first. I love it here. Thanks again.
Reply #47 Saturday, March 3, 2007 1:20 AM
I personally would never have pulled my work but it seems to me these folks were just middle aged decent folks trying to stand up for what they deemed a standard of decency.
Their work may still reside at DA, which is slowly falling into the crapper as far as what is allowed there, but at DA.. you have no voice, its just too big.. people get swallowed there.
Perhaps they thought better of WC, that this was their "home"..as I do and that this site and its moderators held themselves to a higher standard and that maybe their standing in the community actually meant something.
All in all I guess I understand both sides, I do however think the response was severe and perhaps paves the way for the bikini bunch and muddy's the water's for the people that stand by their decency expectations.
I will continue to be an active member of WC, I am saddened by the whole incident and I hope the next time it will be circumvented by moderation and dealt with more professionally... on BOTH sides.
Lastly , saying "just dont look" is a lame retort. People patronize certain communities so they dont have to duck and dodge what they see and dont see.
As far as I can see WC has fairly high standards I just hope it stays that way for the sake of all that is good and just.
Reply #48 Saturday, March 3, 2007 1:56 AM
If I was that Volkswagen car owner, I would tell them to fuck off it's my car and my life.
Reply #50 Saturday, March 3, 2007 2:43 AM
When I pretended to be "fill-in-the-blank" I often took up the guantlet of being at Brad's defense...NOT because I was some 'toadie' but because I truly respected him and appreciated him for all the shit he puts up with and somehow keeps a thick enough skin to not totally go ballistic. I dunno 'bout you but he's a 'hero' in my eyes because he keeps his cool more than I can.
I've fekked up plenty...I brought stupid shite to the boards when I should have just privately mailed the big guy... In the end, you have to ask yourself, "do you just want drama?"
Thank goodness Brad and so many other mods were sooooooo dang liberal with me...I must have been one of the most annoying people on this board!
And ANYONE, ANYONE who DARES to think Brad is an ogre? HA! Think again! He has written me back from a personal mail...something I never even thought he had
time to do...but he has heart which often gets him him trouble I s'pose.
Having a heart gets you no place in the corporate world...and being personable in the world you created yourself is fraught with follies.
Do I think Brad was 'rash' in his decision to downgrade the folks whom were naysayers? Hell no! If NOBODY runs the ship...how safe would YOU really feel?
As a survivor of child abuse, I'm NO way in condoning images of young or young-ish looking girls being depicted in tawdry ways...
But...
Guess what?
That's what e-mailing the ADMINS is for!
I'm not innocent of dragging out things on this forum...boyyyyyyy was that ugly...
So, Can I BEG, PLEAD, WHIMPER? For all those whom have a leget concern over ANYTHING regarding this website, PLEASE take it privately????????
Frogboy is right...elite 'I'm so important and will effect the whole site if I leave' kind of ego trip is not called for...intelligent, adult conversations and discussions are how things REALLY get done...(especially done via private mail).
With kindness in my heart,
Me
Reply #51 Saturday, March 3, 2007 3:09 AM
Reply #52 Saturday, March 3, 2007 3:27 AM
I agree...well, said, kiddo...I betchya Brad is a WONDERFUL daddy too! Shout
out to Brad's "mini-me"...tee-hee.
)If "shmoopy" rings a bell just ignore that awful,
hollow sound. lol
Me
Reply #53 Saturday, March 3, 2007 4:58 AM
Clwoods and TAWoods may in your opinion went " Overboard " in there quest for what they deemed 'decency'. Perhaps. I think vStyler's comment is more of a fair assessment.
" Perhaps they thought better of WC, that this was their "home"..as I do and that this site and its moderators held themselves to a higher standard and that maybe their standing in the community actually meant something"
At this point it doesn't even matter to me who was right or wrong. I just sit here in awe at all the ass kissing posts agreeing with Frogboy. I wonder if he took the opposite point of view if we would see an about face of opinions.
A community is made up of free thinking individuals. Brad has stated what he wants. Agree or disagree . But think for yourselves and not act like puppets.
Reply #54 Saturday, March 3, 2007 5:29 AM
I can't speak for the others (though I'm sure they might feel the same way) but I am in no way, shape, or form kissing ANYONE's ass. I just happen to agree with him. You know this could be turned around saying people were kissing the dissenter's asses by agreeing with them about the screenshot in the first place.
I am NO puppet, never have been and never will be. I think on my own and will voice it accordingly. I just happen to think the same way Brad does, nothing more. I've gotten into some head-butting matches with the guys on IRC about how things have been handled (I'm not as passive and lenient as they like to be). Might get some flack for even making this comment, but like I said...no one's puppet.
Reply #55 Saturday, March 3, 2007 5:38 AM
I'm so glad I don't run this website...I think I'd be double duct taped and gally wagged.
Reply #56 Saturday, March 3, 2007 5:56 AM
Ok Mens and Ladies Stop! Brad is in right when he don't want elite here but a real communauty. Now don't misunderstand what i said. I not agree with leave a site with his work but i respect people who standing up for their opinion.
Now a decision has made by mods here and we must respect that. We can said what we think and our opinion. But now this discussion go on hell and people hurt/fire other people here in my think is not a discussion. And it's not a good way for our communauty.
Now for no misunderstanding:
I don't want to leave this site i'm well here...
I'm not elitic people I'm beginner who want help others when i can. In more i'm simply a cashier with self education.
i have also a daughter (20 month)
I'm simply go here to say that: respect others, respect this site, tell us what you think but if we are not agree with you talk about not hurt others.
I'm really sad to see people hurt other people here.
Reply #57 Saturday, March 3, 2007 6:18 AM
I *think* what Frogboy was trying to convey is just this: Shout and holler...run naked, be free but don't use 'taking away your works' as a tool or THREAT to get what you want. I was guilty of that myself except for the fact that I just took my stuff away (God, I feel old now)...but I could be wrong...because I was a huge cry baby. lol
A forum can go toxic very easily by just one nasty thread...
A smile can go a long way...
And this is a skinning site...not a battle ground...right? Sure, issues come up...again, write one of the mods privately...you'd be pleasantly surprised how accomodating they are...given the tasks they have as it is!
Reply #58 Saturday, March 3, 2007 8:08 AM
This is exactly why I feel I can't openly express my opinions on this board.
I am NO puppet, never have been and never will be. I think on my own and will voice it accordingly. I just happen to think the same way Brad does, nothing more. I've gotten into some head-butting matches with the guys on IRC about how things have been handled (I'm not as passive and lenient as they like to be). Might get some flack for even making this comment, but like I said...no one's puppet.
Ditto!
Reply #59 Saturday, March 3, 2007 8:24 AM
Reply #60 Saturday, March 3, 2007 9:06 AM
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Reply #41 Friday, March 2, 2007 9:24 PM
You should consider it. I recieved a call this afternoon just after my post. I just found out that one of my 11 yr old nieces had been abducted and raped. the man was caught. his harddrive was filled with images such as this one.
now ask me again how I feel.