US Attorney General to ISPs: You Must Spy
Wednesday, September 20, 2006 by Zoomba | Discussion: WinCustomize News
US Attorney General Alberto Gonzales went before Congress this week to urge senators to pass legislation that would require Internet Service Providers to retain logs of customers online activity for at least a year or two for use in police or federal investigations. This lobbying comes amidst the most recent push to regulate online content, specifically that which is considered unsafe for minors.
The proposed data retention rules are strongly supported by law enforcement officials at more or less every level, starting as low as local sheriffs and going all the way to 49 attorneys general. Privacy groups are expected to have a tough time gathering support to oppose any such laws.
Recent months have seen an increased interest in protecting minors online, with lawmakers turning their eyes to social networking sites like MySpace, Xanga and Facebook. Additionally, data retention and analysis regulations are being considered for any organization that receives federal funding, specifically targeted at schools.
Currently, ISPs and other data connectivity providers are only required to retain data for up to 90 days, beyond which they can be deleted. Specifics on how such records should be stored for the proposed 1-2 year period are not yet clear, and will likely pose a significant technological challenge to any service provider or social networking site required to comply.
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Reply #2 Wednesday, September 20, 2006 11:32 AM
Zubaz: Why should it be federally mandated though? As a parent, you're in the best position possible to protect your kids. Is it fair for your desire to protect your kids to trump my constitutional rights to privacy?
The down-side for the ISP (or any service or site that gets targeted for this) is the cost incurred in data retention. Tapes, hard drives, people to manage the information. Services to store it all (IronMountain isn't cheap). The degree of security you now have to have to protect data for privacy means. Keeping data for 90 days can be done without shipping data off-site since it's a small enough chunk of information that you can easily house it internally. Going up to 1-2 years and suddenly you're looking at a different sort of ballgame where you need to either build additional facilities for storage (especially for large ISPs) or go through the expense of securing then shipping your data elsehwere.
The ultimate down-side is this will easily force small/localized ISPs out of business because the costs incurred won't be recoverable like they will for large companies like AOL or Comcast.
Reply #3 Wednesday, September 20, 2006 12:04 PM
What the attorney genenral, and like-minded individuals are doing is nothing but a crutch. Their ultimate motive is just another means for the big-brother or the government to possess yet another tool to spy on us. And ultimately use that information against you and pick you out as a target in their so-called investigations and make an example out of you just to prove that this particular system works.
Which means to me that we are not americans, citizens, tax-payers, consumers, but guinnea-pigs for the government.
Reply #4 Wednesday, September 20, 2006 12:40 PM
Reply #5 Wednesday, September 20, 2006 12:45 PM
Reply #6 Wednesday, September 20, 2006 1:28 PM
The children part is a nice ploy because it tugs at people's greatest fears; however, does anybody think that if what happened in Russia at that school ever happened hear that people wouldn't respond. Don't even think the terrorists are dumb enough to attempt that.
Reply #7 Wednesday, September 20, 2006 1:30 PM
Reply #8 Wednesday, September 20, 2006 1:41 PM
| The ultimate down-side is this will easily force small/localized ISPs out of business because the costs incurred won't be recoverable like they will for large companies like AOL or Comcast. |
We live in a relatively small community. Our ISP is the only locally-owned and operated one here. I get hands-on service and can go "lean on the counter" and chat any time, 24/7.
| I have mixed feelings about this . . I don't like gov't intrusion into private businesses. But I have kids and I'd want everything done to protect them and/or prosacutes anyone who hurt them. |
I've got kids, and anyone attempting to harm them probably would simply disappear. My kids are well-versed in appropriate behaviors, online and in the world at large. I'm blessed today that they've come to no harm. For us, vigilance and teaching are an important part of home and school life.
| The proposed data retention rules are strongly supported by law enforcement officials at more or less every level, starting as low as local sheriffs and going all the way to 49 attorneys general. Privacy groups are expected to have a tough time gathering support to oppose any such laws. |
I'm angry, and alarmed for the world I'm leaving my kids. I'm sitting here thinking about what I can do to halt the insidious and rapid progress of the erosion of The Constitution of the United States.
Zoomba, funny you should post this!
I was collecting data from the very site to post here...got it on .txt and came to post...and you were on the same radio station! Funny how that works...Hang in there, everyone. Keep the faith. This is an issue to pay attention to. Concrete and laws are difficult to change once cast. I'm going to the range, see y'all after a bit... ...peace
Reply #9 Wednesday, September 20, 2006 1:55 PM
Reply #10 Wednesday, September 20, 2006 2:12 PM
2) Large repositories of personal data have a tendency to leak...
3) Once the government has the info to 'save the children', it's all too easy to look for other things in that info, without having to do anythign special to get into it.
Reply #11 Wednesday, September 20, 2006 2:49 PM
Reply #12 Wednesday, September 20, 2006 4:31 PM
As to the children aspect, no one denies the need to get rid of trafficers in child porn and molesters of all types. But with the history of this government, and past ones also, in ever increasing the amount of observation and interference in private lives where are they going to stop? Is porn in general going to be targeted to the glee of feminazis and bible bangers and who is going to decided what is porn and what is art or simply self expression in a medium content that obligates no one to access it? Do we begin to go after people who live lifestyles that others may feel to be offensive and dangerous to society? West Virginia and 7 other states have laws against men and women living together who are not married. And don't even mention men with men or women with women. What about prostitution? A real hot button for some groups. Are we going to spend time and money attacking people who are engaged in a consentually act? And an act that is either outright legal or tolerated in virutally every country on the planet except for bastions of liberty like Iran, Saudia Arabia, and the United States.
We know from sad experience that any government that obtains powers that allow it to take total control over the lives of its citizens always, and I mean always, results in abuses and ultimately a totalitarian system which holds its power by destroying all forms of dissent and "abnormal" behavior. This government, and the ones that will follow it, are no exceptions to the rule.
Sorry for the long post on a web site that deals, at least for the moment, with the free expression of people's creativity. I feel very strongly about this issue. History tells me that I am seeing the end of a system that allowed millions of people to prosper in an open environment while presenting an example to the rest of the world of what freedom could offer.
Reply #13 Wednesday, September 20, 2006 4:44 PM
The internet is OUR place and we have tools to protect OUR place. As far as I'm concerned the internet belongs to this generation and we will maintain / operate it on our agendas, not the governments.
Reply #14 Wednesday, September 20, 2006 4:52 PM
| History tells me that I am seeing the end of a system that allowed millions of people to prosper in an open environment while presenting an example to the rest of the world of what freedom could offer. |
amen, Sea Hourse, I hear you...
Reply #15 Wednesday, September 20, 2006 5:19 PM
People, in general, always think that just because we are free, that we can do all or some of the above mentioned.
On the internet...there are a lot of problems but a lot of good things. In the real world, when someone does something wrong, they get put in jail or pay a fine. It should be pretty much the same online. I realize that you can't find the people online as easily, but you can locate the server that the "bad" pages are hosted on. So, we should go after the ones who host such sites and pages.
I would also agree, that we DON't even HAVE to do anything about the "bad" online content, we just need to make sure that our computers are safe and unable to view such sites.
At the same time, there needs to be consequences for those who are abusing our freedom.
Reply #16 Wednesday, September 20, 2006 6:49 PM
If [and it's a big 'if'] you trust authority you will trust its deportment.
This Internet thing is NOT [sorry, commands ] any one generation's 'belonging'. It 'belongs' to all.
Not 'all' are within [or even WANT to be within] the bounds of the US Constitution.
Laws and regulations/restrictions are set in place with the [sometimes failed] attempt to regulate society to limit damage from the more unsavory elements therein.
Those who complain the loudest about such things as this either are philosophical idealists without solid founding in reality or are worried for their vested interests - aka guilt.
1984 has been and gone. Society has not yet melted into the scum of literary social science-fantasy....in spite of the best attempts.
There'll be a shitload of spitting and moaning over things such as this....then it'll quietly happen anyway....and people will rush off to champion the next perceived 'cause'.
JAFO awaits the first evokation of the 'fascism - evil overlord' hysteric analogy...
Reply #17 Wednesday, September 20, 2006 10:11 PM
Oh, man!!
Here comes big brother again.
At least I can still select my own beer and coffee! 
[the NewNetPolice?
]
Reply #19 Wednesday, September 20, 2006 11:58 PM
Reply #20 Thursday, September 21, 2006 3:10 AM
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Reply #1 Wednesday, September 20, 2006 11:19 AM
I can't see a down side for the ISPs.