US Attorney General to ISPs: You Must Spy
Wednesday, September 20, 2006 by Zoomba | Discussion: WinCustomize News
US Attorney General Alberto Gonzales went before Congress this week to urge senators to pass legislation that would require Internet Service Providers to retain logs of customers online activity for at least a year or two for use in police or federal investigations. This lobbying comes amidst the most recent push to regulate online content, specifically that which is considered unsafe for minors.
The proposed data retention rules are strongly supported by law enforcement officials at more or less every level, starting as low as local sheriffs and going all the way to 49 attorneys general. Privacy groups are expected to have a tough time gathering support to oppose any such laws.
Recent months have seen an increased interest in protecting minors online, with lawmakers turning their eyes to social networking sites like MySpace, Xanga and Facebook. Additionally, data retention and analysis regulations are being considered for any organization that receives federal funding, specifically targeted at schools.
Currently, ISPs and other data connectivity providers are only required to retain data for up to 90 days, beyond which they can be deleted. Specifics on how such records should be stored for the proposed 1-2 year period are not yet clear, and will likely pose a significant technological challenge to any service provider or social networking site required to comply.
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RPGFX
Reply #22 Thursday, September 21, 2006 10:11 AM
Reply #22 Thursday, September 21, 2006 10:11 AM
Jafo said exactly what I feel. He just speaks much better than I. Thank you Jafo!
RPGFX
Reply #23 Thursday, September 21, 2006 10:13 AM
Again, if you are doing no wrong, there's nothing to be afraid of.
Reply #23 Thursday, September 21, 2006 10:13 AM
| Be afraid. Be very afraid. Watch yourself carefully. Soon there will be a Patriot Watcher in every neighborhood. |
Again, if you are doing no wrong, there's nothing to be afraid of.
seldomseen
Reply #24 Thursday, September 21, 2006 11:43 AM
Reply #24 Thursday, September 21, 2006 11:43 AM
Having experienced, first-hand, the machinations of our courts and attendant legal maneuvering by those versed in the practice of law and its interpretation and applications, I have found a vast difference between current law and morality. What has been made clear to me is that there is (1)legally "right", and, (2)morally "right". The two are not always in agreement. I have had the experience of being told by the court that my wishes and goals for the outcome and conclusion of my case, although morally valid and unquestionably proper and beneficial for all concerned, could not, at the time, be granted, as the applicable laws did not support my plea for justice at the time. Stunned and bewildered, I've walked from courtrooms knowing I was right, but that interpretation of the law and showmanship in the presentation of such interpretation to the court held sway. Who, then, gets to interpret what I do as "right" or "wrong"? My fear is of tyranny and loss of rights. My fear is of pandering to special interests that are not those I hold to be morally right. I want to be protected from those that would harm my loved ones and fellow beings, but at the same time I do not wish to grant free access to our homes. Protect us, but, please, respect our privacy and dignity. If you feel you need to install spyware, hardware and/or software, in my personal space, please don't do so unbeknownst to me. Give me a reasonable choice. Right? 
Fourth Letter
Reply #25 Thursday, September 21, 2006 1:14 PM
Whatever happened to the land of the free and innocent until proven guilty ? people have a right to privacy and if anyone thinks that the US governement watching the internet will make the country safer is in a dream land.
Reply #25 Thursday, September 21, 2006 1:14 PM
| Again, if you are doing no wrong, there's nothing to be afraid of. |
Whatever happened to the land of the free and innocent until proven guilty ? people have a right to privacy and if anyone thinks that the US governement watching the internet will make the country safer is in a dream land.
cybermessiah
Reply #26 Thursday, September 21, 2006 1:25 PM
Reply #26 Thursday, September 21, 2006 1:25 PM
The erosion of civil liberties has already begun and like in nature, once erosion has begun, its pretty much irriversable.
A vast majority of people have already been satisfied to sacrifice some civil liberties in the cause of 'The war on Terrorism'....'The Faceless Enemy!'... The doors are wide open..... Your enemy don't need a face now....it can be whoever or whatever your government decides in order to effectively and subjectively 'protect' its 'civilians'.
If your govenment now decides that it wants to further erode your civil liberties with the justification of securing the welfare of children....its just another step forwards in protecting you even more.....and no matter how much you rant and rave, it will be achieved quietly and subversively while the masses have their attention drawn away to either ranting and raving over the next issue of 'national' security, or by whats happening in their most important soap-opera on the telly. The ball has been rolling for quite some time now guys....u really expect it to stop now?!
Commands puts it quite clearly...
...and further more you'll get neither.
A vast majority of people have already been satisfied to sacrifice some civil liberties in the cause of 'The war on Terrorism'....'The Faceless Enemy!'... The doors are wide open..... Your enemy don't need a face now....it can be whoever or whatever your government decides in order to effectively and subjectively 'protect' its 'civilians'.
If your govenment now decides that it wants to further erode your civil liberties with the justification of securing the welfare of children....its just another step forwards in protecting you even more.....and no matter how much you rant and rave, it will be achieved quietly and subversively while the masses have their attention drawn away to either ranting and raving over the next issue of 'national' security, or by whats happening in their most important soap-opera on the telly. The ball has been rolling for quite some time now guys....u really expect it to stop now?!
Commands puts it quite clearly...
| "If you sacrifice liberty for security, then you deserve neither liberty nor security." - Ben Franklin |
...and further more you'll get neither.
Matchbook
Reply #27 Thursday, September 21, 2006 2:47 PM
Eh, hate to be the voice of dissention, here, but this lacks an angle, IMO. If one were to accept these proposed laws with open arms: Then why not further protection?.. I'm *just as* against the abuse of a spouse, so why not video cams in apartments and condos to regulate these things?.. It's not so bad if you don't beat your wife/husband, right (yes, sarcasm)? As much as that would, indeed, curb some (or a lot?) of the violence in the home, I think it'd be dead wrong. I'm in favor of education, myself.
I mean no disrespect for any one here, especially RPGFX (Hey, mate
) -- just my rarely spoken two cents. Cheers, guys.
Reply #27 Thursday, September 21, 2006 2:47 PM
| If you aren't doing anything devious online, what do you care? |
Eh, hate to be the voice of dissention, here, but this lacks an angle, IMO. If one were to accept these proposed laws with open arms: Then why not further protection?.. I'm *just as* against the abuse of a spouse, so why not video cams in apartments and condos to regulate these things?.. It's not so bad if you don't beat your wife/husband, right (yes, sarcasm)? As much as that would, indeed, curb some (or a lot?) of the violence in the home, I think it'd be dead wrong. I'm in favor of education, myself.
I mean no disrespect for any one here, especially RPGFX (Hey, mate
) -- just my rarely spoken two cents. Cheers, guys.
_footsie_
Reply #28 Thursday, September 21, 2006 3:04 PM
Reply #28 Thursday, September 21, 2006 3:04 PM
Hi everybody.....I haven't posted in a long long time I hope you don't mind my putting in my two cents worth on this one, because it's such an important subject...I think the more input from the people the better.
I don't trust the administration. And there are alot of crooked cops out there, too.
If they want to work WITH the parents.....maybe they should....monitor the kids online....nail the freakos that try to get flakey with them.
I don't like the idea of some strange person I don't know from Adam....could be a freako themself...stalking me around the web and logging my activities....I don't do a whole heckuva lot online...just stop in here once in a while and go over to the Colbert Site and raise a few eyebrows (jokes, not icky stuff) lol....
Besides....is the administration willing to put all their filthy little secrets on the table? NO
I don't have any filthy little secrets yet they want BIG BROTHER to hang around everything I do when they could be out catching the REAL badguys and not wasting my or my ISP's time with their unreasonable search and seizures.....
I hear ya on the disrespect thing, causticFX.....I don't want to rub anybody the wrong way, either...I just want to be able to voice my opinion here, too
Thanks and good to see you all out here....still doing your fantastic artwork!
footsie
I don't trust the administration. And there are alot of crooked cops out there, too.
If they want to work WITH the parents.....maybe they should....monitor the kids online....nail the freakos that try to get flakey with them.
I don't like the idea of some strange person I don't know from Adam....could be a freako themself...stalking me around the web and logging my activities....I don't do a whole heckuva lot online...just stop in here once in a while and go over to the Colbert Site and raise a few eyebrows (jokes, not icky stuff) lol....Besides....is the administration willing to put all their filthy little secrets on the table? NO
I don't have any filthy little secrets yet they want BIG BROTHER to hang around everything I do when they could be out catching the REAL badguys and not wasting my or my ISP's time with their unreasonable search and seizures.....
I hear ya on the disrespect thing, causticFX.....I don't want to rub anybody the wrong way, either...I just want to be able to voice my opinion here, too
Thanks and good to see you all out here....still doing your fantastic artwork!
footsie
Adamness
Reply #29 Thursday, September 21, 2006 3:18 PM
Reply #29 Thursday, September 21, 2006 3:18 PM
I hate to say it, but Alberto Gonzales has a lot more to worry about than children getting harassed online. But then again, this has nothing to do with the saftey of children...
HG_Eliminator
Reply #30 Thursday, September 21, 2006 8:32 PM
I doubt the guy from Canada in this weeks news .. the one who was wrongly accused by officials in his area and imprisoned,tortured.. would agree with this statement...( i cant find the story on MSN's web site at the moment) ... but basically he was accused because officials needed to prove to the public that their new national security measures were working and needed a "terrorist" to nail... since they couldnt find one they fingered him. He was whisked out of the country and tortured til he confessed to being a terrorist. Eventually he was released and his story eventually became headlines. An inquiry proved his innocence as well as the false accusations by officials.
False accusations and witch hunting are definately something to fear with every new Power "assumed" by Officials who need to justify their jobs...
now maybe a way to block sites at the ISP level so that way if a site's content is illegal in an area it cant be viewed..? that would remove all the type of sites that would be harmful and typically prey on the innocent and would not require probing everybodys net historys...???? just a thought..
Reply #30 Thursday, September 21, 2006 8:32 PM
| Again, if you are doing no wrong, there's nothing to be afraid of. |
I doubt the guy from Canada in this weeks news .. the one who was wrongly accused by officials in his area and imprisoned,tortured.. would agree with this statement...( i cant find the story on MSN's web site at the moment) ... but basically he was accused because officials needed to prove to the public that their new national security measures were working and needed a "terrorist" to nail... since they couldnt find one they fingered him. He was whisked out of the country and tortured til he confessed to being a terrorist. Eventually he was released and his story eventually became headlines. An inquiry proved his innocence as well as the false accusations by officials.
False accusations and witch hunting are definately something to fear with every new Power "assumed" by Officials who need to justify their jobs...
now maybe a way to block sites at the ISP level so that way if a site's content is illegal in an area it cant be viewed..? that would remove all the type of sites that would be harmful and typically prey on the innocent and would not require probing everybodys net historys...???? just a thought..
Jafo
Reply #31 Thursday, September 21, 2006 10:07 PM
Reply #31 Thursday, September 21, 2006 10:07 PM
Various countries around the world have 'voyeuristic' shows on prime time television...in the guise of 'entertainment'. Yes, obviously 'Big Brother' is one, but so too is 'Survivor' and all its spin-offs/copies.
People will [or appear to ] lap up this crud in buckets-full yet a few will balk at its introduction into their reality.
Start by being outraged at the concept of it as entertainment...and you might be just vaguely credible as a dissenter to its 'legal' introduction.
People shouldn't be worrying about the new 'laws'....only about who/what they have as a legal system.
It is not the overseeing that is a problem, but only the cock-ups/stupidity/naivete of those charged with its function....
PhrozenMenace
Reply #32 Thursday, September 21, 2006 10:39 PM
Reply #32 Thursday, September 21, 2006 10:39 PM
in a lot of cases you dont have to do anything wrong to get in trouble..
seldomseen
Reply #33 Friday, September 22, 2006 12:50 AM
America is so apathetic. We get all wound up about something, then soon we forget about it, like sheep, and fix on the next "shiny object". Like fish...or monkeys... "Hey! The kid's crying! Just give him a rattle and he'll forget all about it." I'm not gonna go quietly. No sirree. Kicking and screaming all the way. Too bad they can't just spray for terrorists and pedophiles, like bugs. I'm p____d off, sorry
yeah, well... "hysteric"?...more like "berserker". Got a real case of the f___its today, that's all
Reply #33 Friday, September 22, 2006 12:50 AM
| ....then it'll quietly happen anyway.... |
America is so apathetic. We get all wound up about something, then soon we forget about it, like sheep, and fix on the next "shiny object". Like fish...or monkeys... "Hey! The kid's crying! Just give him a rattle and he'll forget all about it." I'm not gonna go quietly. No sirree. Kicking and screaming all the way. Too bad they can't just spray for terrorists and pedophiles, like bugs. I'm p____d off, sorry
| 'fascism - evil overlord' hysteric analogy... |
yeah, well...
"hysteric"?...more like "berserker". Got a real case of the f___its today, that's all| I mean no disrespect |
speedy5662
Reply #34 Friday, September 22, 2006 1:43 AM
Reply #34 Friday, September 22, 2006 1:43 AM
Tear up the Constitution and throw it away!!! It's already so out of whack it couldn't be straightened out. We are not free and do not have rights anymore!!! The MIAA, The Patriot Act, ETC.... are all about trying to make this country go to shit!!! We have had our heads up our own asses and will continue to do so... It's not about what's right it's about power and control and of course MONEY!!! And there is no need to fear that we as Americans have totally F***ed up!!! The fact is everyday that many people are falsely accused of crimes they truthfully did NOT commit. Yet they are condemned by society, guilty before trial and after, yet the innocence is supposed to be there. I can safely say that if George Washington and the founding fathers of our country were to "come alive today" they would once again revolt and reword the constitution more appropriately so that the f***ing morons could never ammend it to fit personal agendas that are to "protect"!!! They used to say "America love it or leave it", I say gimme the money and I would leave the planet and not just America!! Shame to all of us for allowing this horrible SHIT to ever get started and now that the ball is rolling where is Indiana Jones to outrun it?
"You have nothing to fear, except the government itself!"
Speedy
P.S. Sorry if anyone finds this offensive. I find our society offensive and our government also and the latter is worse!!
"You have nothing to fear, except the government itself!"
Speedy
P.S. Sorry if anyone finds this offensive. I find our society offensive and our government also and the latter is worse!!
Adamness
Reply #36 Friday, September 22, 2006 11:17 AM
A large portion of America is apathetic, but there are those of us who do care about certain things and don't just give up on it. You also have to realize why we're apathetic.
Take the Iraq War for example. The war was designed to affect the least amount of people possible, otherwise it would never have happened. In the beginning, they said it would be relatively cheap and relatively quick. Rather than raise taxes for everyone, like has been done for all other wars, taxes were lowered (at least for the rich). Most of all, there is no draft. That is why there isn't the extreme outrage, particularly with us students.
Whether it be through ways to distance the public from the governments actions, or to disguise their illegal and immoral plans under 'national security,' America is apathetic not because we don't care, but because we've been given no reason to care. Personally, I still find that unacceptable, but people have a lot to think and worry about these days (at least they think they do), and a war or ISP record keeping is just another thing to add to the burden.
Reply #36 Friday, September 22, 2006 11:17 AM
| America is so apathetic. |
A large portion of America is apathetic, but there are those of us who do care about certain things and don't just give up on it. You also have to realize why we're apathetic.
Take the Iraq War for example. The war was designed to affect the least amount of people possible, otherwise it would never have happened. In the beginning, they said it would be relatively cheap and relatively quick. Rather than raise taxes for everyone, like has been done for all other wars, taxes were lowered (at least for the rich). Most of all, there is no draft. That is why there isn't the extreme outrage, particularly with us students.
Whether it be through ways to distance the public from the governments actions, or to disguise their illegal and immoral plans under 'national security,' America is apathetic not because we don't care, but because we've been given no reason to care. Personally, I still find that unacceptable, but people have a lot to think and worry about these days (at least they think they do), and a war or ISP record keeping is just another thing to add to the burden.
seldomseen
Reply #37 Friday, September 22, 2006 11:52 AM
Reply #37 Friday, September 22, 2006 11:52 AM
Thanks, Adamness. I realize people care. I just get really frustrated now and then when there's a problem and I can't fix it or really do much about it. You've made some really good points. Rational and incisive. Thanks.
Anti Social
Reply #38 Friday, September 22, 2006 12:57 PM
Reply #38 Friday, September 22, 2006 12:57 PM
So, why is the U.S. Government stepping in where parents of said children should be responsible? What kind of parent would let their small/young/potential victim of a child use a computer without privacy/parental control software (properly configured). The governement is not responsible for the safety of your children, YOU ARE. I personally view this as a form of invasion of privacy. Sounds like another way for parents to take even less of a part in raising their child to adulthood.
LordIbuprofen
Reply #39 Friday, September 22, 2006 8:03 PM
Reply #39 Friday, September 22, 2006 8:03 PM
A copule of points.
First, for the "if you're not doing anything wrong, what does it matter?" crowd: You're right, I'm not doing anything wrong. However, if some politico decides somewhere down the line to change the legal definition of "wrong" (which, it seems, is happening with more and more frequency), my present, quite legal behavior might get me, you, or all of us arrested. If it sounds like I'm being outlandish, wait a couple more years -- I can nearly guarantee that this will happen somewhere. Eventually, simply criticizing the government -- something I do daily, online and off -- is going to be illegal, and I guess I'll be seeing a lot of my fellow dissenters in prison.
Second, I'm pro-privacy, not because I have any nasty little secrets to hide (my life would be much more interesting if I did), but because there's business of mine that The Gummint does not need to know. If I elect to tell my girlfriend that I love her in email, does the miilitary/intelligence complex really need to know that? None of their g@%-d^*% business.
First, for the "if you're not doing anything wrong, what does it matter?" crowd: You're right, I'm not doing anything wrong. However, if some politico decides somewhere down the line to change the legal definition of "wrong" (which, it seems, is happening with more and more frequency), my present, quite legal behavior might get me, you, or all of us arrested. If it sounds like I'm being outlandish, wait a couple more years -- I can nearly guarantee that this will happen somewhere. Eventually, simply criticizing the government -- something I do daily, online and off -- is going to be illegal, and I guess I'll be seeing a lot of my fellow dissenters in prison.
Second, I'm pro-privacy, not because I have any nasty little secrets to hide (my life would be much more interesting if I did), but because there's business of mine that The Gummint does not need to know. If I elect to tell my girlfriend that I love her in email, does the miilitary/intelligence complex really need to know that? None of their g@%-d^*% business.
Jafo
Reply #40 Friday, September 22, 2006 9:05 PM
Reply #40 Friday, September 22, 2006 9:05 PM
| If I elect to tell my girlfriend that I love her in email, does the miilitary/intelligence complex really need to know that? None of their g@%-d^*% business |
Don't do it via Gmail then....
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Reply #21 Thursday, September 21, 2006 8:58 AM