Where have all the decent skinners and skins gone?
Sunday, July 9, 2006 by Matches_Malone | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
First I would like to say this. I'm proud to be a paid subscriber to Stardock and virtually all of it's products even bought some as gifts too family members.
While scrolling the windowblinds section I've seen some ridiculous skins even some by those whose been skinning for awhile. Like i.e. 'Happy Fish c'mon. I think wincustomize is losing it's flair when it comes to high-defintion not too mention quality skins. And us loyal customers has to go elsewhere to find some good skins, like Flux by josephs, before that skin was uploaded here it was on of course on other sites first even though he stated that for his art award.
What happened Tiggz, Mike Brandt, and a host of others, the real skinners who dedicate their entire being, and lots of man hours, not to say those who make general skins don't but not like the professionals that puts true dedication to put forth a high-quality skin and not just downloading skinstudio and putting some bars together.
Please weed out those ridiculous skins, put wincustomize back on the map. I think it should be a skin-law the weeds out the good from the bad skins.
Bad-skin: defined as, too many bugs and have to keep uploading the skin
Good-skin: defined as, not as many bugs and upload twice for update
High-quality-skin: defined as, no bugs every part of the skin is skinned w/periodic updates to add more new tweaks if users ask.
-End of report
While scrolling the windowblinds section I've seen some ridiculous skins even some by those whose been skinning for awhile. Like i.e. 'Happy Fish c'mon. I think wincustomize is losing it's flair when it comes to high-defintion not too mention quality skins. And us loyal customers has to go elsewhere to find some good skins, like Flux by josephs, before that skin was uploaded here it was on of course on other sites first even though he stated that for his art award.
What happened Tiggz, Mike Brandt, and a host of others, the real skinners who dedicate their entire being, and lots of man hours, not to say those who make general skins don't but not like the professionals that puts true dedication to put forth a high-quality skin and not just downloading skinstudio and putting some bars together.
Please weed out those ridiculous skins, put wincustomize back on the map. I think it should be a skin-law the weeds out the good from the bad skins.
Bad-skin: defined as, too many bugs and have to keep uploading the skin
Good-skin: defined as, not as many bugs and upload twice for update
High-quality-skin: defined as, no bugs every part of the skin is skinned w/periodic updates to add more new tweaks if users ask.
-End of report
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Skinhit
Reply #62 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 3:25 AM
Reply #62 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 3:25 AM
i think the "he thats a she" is referring to STERNENGALAXY...
Buttermaker
Reply #64 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 4:21 AM
Reply #64 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 4:21 AM
I agree with the person that made this thread... I have been wondering where all the great skins are. Ever since I started paying Wincustomize, I have seen nothing but garbage on here! Then only response idiot people have is "why don't you make your own skins then" or "why don't you do better". For one thing, I have no time to waste on that. Also, I am paying to use this and to be able to download skins, but there is limited skins to download. There use to be a time where this site was great and everyday new skins would come out. Now, maybe once a week there is a new WB skin and maybe every 3 weeks some new icons come out. I am not paying for this crap! Someone is getting rich of this Wincustomize site.
If people don't think that the decent skinners and skins have gone from this site, then they are probably just as stupid as they look!
If people don't think that the decent skinners and skins have gone from this site, then they are probably just as stupid as they look!
c242
Reply #65 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 4:47 AM
That sir, is a rubbish statement. Since the very beginning Stardock had and still has to push out more dollars for the site than subscriptions bring in. Note that only 2 % (last figure I know) of actual users have subscriptions.
And You and the thread starter have to be aware that skinning ist mostly not about pleasing people with the next uber-skin but to share what someone has done for his own needings. Sometimes this sharing ends up in popularity simply because a huge amount of people like the skin, too (Sometime that is different with purchase-suites, but that is a different story). And most of the big names are busy with projects that pay their bills, so that is one reason they don't put out one free skin after another anymore as it was at the beginning.
And again : You are not paying for the skins You download here, but for servers, bandwidth and site maintenance being able to allow hundreds of thousands accesses per day.
Reply #65 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 4:47 AM
| Someone is getting rich of this Wincustomize site. |
That sir, is a rubbish statement. Since the very beginning Stardock had and still has to push out more dollars for the site than subscriptions bring in. Note that only 2 % (last figure I know) of actual users have subscriptions.
And You and the thread starter have to be aware that skinning ist mostly not about pleasing people with the next uber-skin but to share what someone has done for his own needings. Sometimes this sharing ends up in popularity simply because a huge amount of people like the skin, too (Sometime that is different with purchase-suites, but that is a different story). And most of the big names are busy with projects that pay their bills, so that is one reason they don't put out one free skin after another anymore as it was at the beginning.
And again : You are not paying for the skins You download here, but for servers, bandwidth and site maintenance being able to allow hundreds of thousands accesses per day.
c242
Reply #66 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 4:53 AM
Reply #66 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 4:53 AM
Another point : With every new feature of windowblinds it also takes more time to skin al l aspects that are possible. Making a good skin nowadays can take up to three-four times more than it used to maybe 2 years ago...
aufisch
Reply #67 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 5:15 AM
Reply #67 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 5:15 AM
To sum this up:
* Skins on this site are not here to please anybody, but are a freely shared ressource, made by dedicted people who are willing to invest a lot (a whole lot!!!) of their free-time to make something for the community for free!!
* What is "good or bad" depends on ones individual taste and is therefore subjectiv
* Absolutely no one gets rich of Wincustomize. The little income from the subscribers donsn't cover the bandwith cost.
* Its summer and people will spend more time outdoors instead of making skins, hence the slowdown in releasing new skins (actually, that on is new)
* Sternengalaxy is female
* ramese and Starkers are male
* shrrhhhh,crackle.....Jafo has always been here...shhhhhhhrr,cchrrs.....
Happy Tuesday everyone.
* Skins on this site are not here to please anybody, but are a freely shared ressource, made by dedicted people who are willing to invest a lot (a whole lot!!!) of their free-time to make something for the community for free!!
* What is "good or bad" depends on ones individual taste and is therefore subjectiv
* Absolutely no one gets rich of Wincustomize. The little income from the subscribers donsn't cover the bandwith cost.
* Its summer and people will spend more time outdoors instead of making skins, hence the slowdown in releasing new skins (actually, that on is new)
* Sternengalaxy is female
* ramese and Starkers are male
* shrrhhhh,crackle.....Jafo has always been here...shhhhhhhrr,cchrrs.....
Happy Tuesday everyone.
NightTrainthedark
Reply #68 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 6:14 AM
Reply #68 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 6:14 AM
For every one goood skinner that runs into real life and has to take time away from skinning, there are 10+ new assholes that come and never leave.
kenwas
Reply #69 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 6:41 AM
Let's hope that you are wrong about this NT. Such a progression portends a bleak future indeed.
Reply #69 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 6:41 AM
| For every one goood skinner that runs into real life and has to take time away from skinning, there are 10+ new assholes that come and never leave. |
Let's hope that you are wrong about this NT. Such a progression portends a bleak future indeed.
Fairyy~
Reply #70 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 6:43 AM
Its too bad you didnt say this in your initial post. It would have made a huge difference in the tone of the thread in the beginning. You must realise that a lot of people miss the " old timers " that made great skins. But I suppose most just do not have the time anymore or have moved on in life. Skinning has become more time consuming. I myself prefer the older skins. Maybe in the future some will return - maybe we all might have to pay for the " different " skins ( I have no problem with that ) But for now - I appreciate all skins that are given freely - but everyone has a right to their own personal taste.
Reply #70 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 6:43 AM
| everyone is misconstrueing my words, I pointed out one skin that I personally did'nt like to make an example of what I was explaining, however that was my opinion. My kids liked it so I downloaded the skin and put it on my children's computer, also my wife's system too, it just did'nt meet my expectations. Even what I consider good some may consider it too be bad, like you and everyone else said it is a matter of opinion and I stated that from the beginning. I'm not making any personal attacks as some of you in this thread are doing to me. And, if it is a matter of my opinion why am I getting all these personal attacks. Or, it may just be an ounce of truth in what I aforementioned and some just can't handle the truth. |
Its too bad you didnt say this in your initial post. It would have made a huge difference in the tone of the thread in the beginning. You must realise that a lot of people miss the " old timers " that made great skins. But I suppose most just do not have the time anymore or have moved on in life. Skinning has become more time consuming. I myself prefer the older skins. Maybe in the future some will return - maybe we all might have to pay for the " different " skins ( I have no problem with that ) But for now - I appreciate all skins that are given freely - but everyone has a right to their own personal taste.
NightTrainthedark
Reply #71 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 6:51 AM
Reply #71 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 6:51 AM
| Let's hope that you are wrong about this NT. Such a progression portends a bleak future indeed. |
I hope I am wrong also Kenwas but unfortunately as WC grows it is inevitable that the assholes scare away some newcomers.
kenwas
Reply #72 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 7:27 AM
Reply #72 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 7:27 AM
It is my view that newcomers should be encouraged and nutured so that they have a good environment to develop skills and self confidence. It is the job of us all to help create such an environment. It is also my view however, that once that skill level is raised and developed, there should be compensation ($) for the effort that is currently required to make a good skin. I refer to technical quality not subjective artistic quality which is always a matter of taste. Without this, we, by defintion, rely on the participation of those that can somehow find the time to do this as a hobby. Each new version of Windows will increase the bar for time needed and skill levels to create excellent work.
Jafo
Reply #73 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 8:57 AM
Reply #73 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 8:57 AM
Part of this 'nurturing' [not 'nuturing'... 
] that kenwas alludes to in #73 pertains to telling some people to take their abject negativity and just 'bugger off' elsewhere.
How can you equate healthy 'support' for new skinners with 'all the new stuff lately is just crap'?
Since skinning began there was 'good' and there was 'less good' skins made.....nothing has changed.
Actually, that's wrong.
What HAS changed is people's expectations/demands that quality/product MUST be made to suit THEM.
Pigs' bloody arse. It MUST do nothing of the sort.
The first rule of skinning is...
It is meant to be FUN.
Second rule....[not too many may remember it these days] was/is...
If you don't like what you see being freely offered then MAKE IT YOURSELF.
I know we are now in the 'ME Generation'....Instead of Generation 'X'....or 'Y'... but this is just ridiculous.
What the online skinning sites provides are avenues/outlets/stages for skinners of all 'capabilities' to interact with each other to further their know-how, not just to be repositories for every mal-content to bitch and moan over perceptions of diminishing standards/whatever.
Some make such a career out of it that I personally would pay them NOT to be 'members' [for want of a better word].
Skinners are constantly being told if you can't stand the heat [with criticism] keep out of the kitchen...
Well the same goes for the critics....if you can bring absolutely NOTHING positive to this 'kitchen' then you can get out of it sooner, rather than later. The 'community' won't rue your departure.
starkers
Reply #74 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 10:29 AM
Oh bugger it....suppose though, I'm gonna make a twerp of myself after 4 or 5 days of little or no sleep (about 3 hours...not having kids in the next life
).
Confused? You betcha I'm confused....could put me in a 44 gallon drum and tell me to pee in the corner, right now I'd get dizzy looking for it.
My apologies to Sternengalaxy...ramesese again.
Reply #74 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 10:29 AM
| Oh good grief (pulls hair out). By he being a she I was referring to sternengalaxy, Sabine, who is a she not a he (I hope...) Confused? |
Oh bugger it....suppose though, I'm gonna make a twerp of myself after 4 or 5 days of little or no sleep (about 3 hours...not having kids in the next life
).Confused? You betcha I'm confused....could put me in a 44 gallon drum and tell me to pee in the corner, right now I'd get dizzy looking for it.
My apologies to Sternengalaxy...ramesese again.
Fairyy~
Reply #76 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 10:52 AM
well said - which was why I was in favor or the Artist-skinners having the option of skin comments...or not.
I can't imagine how it feels to spend 2 to 4 weeks on a WB to have it picked apart by strangers that want it customized to their specs .......its called wincustomize but you do your own customizations. Somewhere along the line people lost the whole idea.
Reply #76 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 10:52 AM
| What the online skinning sites provides are avenues/outlets/stages for skinners of all 'capabilities' to interact with each other to further their know-how, not just to be repositories for every mal-content to bitch and moan over perceptions of diminishing standards/whatever. |
well said - which was why I was in favor or the Artist-skinners having the option of skin comments...or not.
I can't imagine how it feels to spend 2 to 4 weeks on a WB to have it picked apart by strangers that want it customized to their specs .......its called wincustomize but you do your own customizations. Somewhere along the line people lost the whole idea.
Matches_Malone
Reply #77 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 11:41 AM
Reply #77 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 11:41 AM
Thanks Starkers for the compliment. Everyone has made some pretty good statements and Jafo, pretty much summed everything up. That is absolutely true in what he said. I could'nt have said that better myself. My concept and perception has now changed in regards to the skinning and what not, and Fairyy made an interesting statement as well. I'm in total agreement. No more coming down on the skinners and their skins, if I had known that Sternengalaxy was a female, I more than likely would've used a different skin to make my example, and yet that would have still been wrong as well, as I previously stated in one of my posts.
But we all learn from our mistakes, like Starkers for example with a couple of blunders he made.
Nevertheless, my coming to this site for a number of years, I guess I just so used to seeing good skins especially the dark skins being uploaded here just about everyday and go 'WOW. Now it's like a w.b. here, an i.p. there, and when those skins do get uploaded I automatically think if I don't like it, 'What's up with this' but a few people [Jafo, Carl, Stark, Fairry, etc.] just pointed out the reasons why, it's summer, new versions of w.b., it takes more time to do, personal things they have to care of, etc. I understand that completely now. So no more bitchin from me.
But a lot of the newcomers does'nt really know that, I still see postings 'what is this 2006, I still see postings where a lot of people say 'Man, that's a good skin, I downloaded it, How do I apply it' - and the response is always 'You have to download windowblinds and install the skin from there'.
Innocent question, innocent answer, occasionally you have the on-looker looking in, browsing around, and my opinion will see the older skins are some of the best ones.
I recently seen in a screenshot that 'Diafragma uploaded and I have to say in my opinion that that was the ultimate, if someone can tackle that and make something similar. That would definitely set a whole new standard and way that skins are made here, and especially to those a like bright flashy colors also. ...whispering 'a little bug in the hereee...' -fading out'.
But we all learn from our mistakes, like Starkers for example with a couple of blunders he made.
Nevertheless, my coming to this site for a number of years, I guess I just so used to seeing good skins especially the dark skins being uploaded here just about everyday and go 'WOW. Now it's like a w.b. here, an i.p. there, and when those skins do get uploaded I automatically think if I don't like it, 'What's up with this' but a few people [Jafo, Carl, Stark, Fairry, etc.] just pointed out the reasons why, it's summer, new versions of w.b., it takes more time to do, personal things they have to care of, etc. I understand that completely now. So no more bitchin from me.
But a lot of the newcomers does'nt really know that, I still see postings 'what is this 2006, I still see postings where a lot of people say 'Man, that's a good skin, I downloaded it, How do I apply it' - and the response is always 'You have to download windowblinds and install the skin from there'.
Innocent question, innocent answer, occasionally you have the on-looker looking in, browsing around, and my opinion will see the older skins are some of the best ones.
I recently seen in a screenshot that 'Diafragma uploaded and I have to say in my opinion that that was the ultimate, if someone can tackle that and make something similar. That would definitely set a whole new standard and way that skins are made here, and especially to those a like bright flashy colors also. ...whispering 'a little bug in the hereee...' -fading out'.
ZubaZ
Reply #78 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 11:58 AM
Maybe it started with YOUR arrival?
It's a waste of time for you to make skins . . but you want other people to make them?!?!? And you want them to be GREAT?!?!?
So don't renew and don't come back.
Your avatar looks just like Elton John. Anyone who likes elton john is stupid.
I love this place . . the open exchange of ideas . . . that's what keeps me coming back.
Reply #78 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 11:58 AM
| Ever since I started paying Wincustomize, I have seen nothing but garbage on here! |
Maybe it started with YOUR arrival?
| Then only response idiot people have is "why don't you make your own skins then" or "why don't you do better". For one thing, I have no time to waste on that. |
It's a waste of time for you to make skins . . but you want other people to make them?!?!? And you want them to be GREAT?!?!?
| I am not paying for this crap! |
So don't renew and don't come back.
| If people don't think that the decent skinners and skins have gone from this site, then they are probably just as stupid as they look! |
Your avatar looks just like Elton John. Anyone who likes elton john is stupid.
I love this place . . the open exchange of ideas . . . that's what keeps me coming back.
-scion-
Reply #79 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 12:23 PM
Reply #79 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 12:23 PM
ramesese-
as a user, i can understand your frustration. you paid for the software, you paid for the subscription...now you want content. over a period of time when you don't find content that you deem "fit" you start to get anxious. understandable.
as an artist, keep in mind that there is no "school" for skinning. yes, there are tutorials, but those only teach mechanics, not creativity and skill. the great skins you speak of don't just fall off trees. they are generally the products of years of experience. just as in your profession, either you have "it" or you don't. "it" being imagination. there is another word i mentioned..."years". over time an artist will realize that they give 100 percent effort for 30 percent acceptance by the community. it almost seems as though your average user assumes that artists work for stardock, or that it is our "job" to create content for you. i can't tell you how many emails i've gotten demanding a specific skin for someone's specific wants...and some of them get downright nasty when you tell them no. even when you post a skin...the number of requests for changes and updates to suit someone else's wants and needs can get out of hand. when i posted aten...the number of requests to change the button glows were astounding...i liked them and didn't want to change it...people got upset...is that supposed to be my probem if you don't like it? and if paying for a skin is what you want...established artists can charge more than 3,000 dollars for custom work...my going rate is 100 dollars an hour. eventually an artist can come to a realization that this isn't worth it and move on to other things. threads such as this are a perfect example as to why you don't see many of us around anymore. no artist wants to be the "example" for someone else's frustation...not after months of hard work. you may not have wanted to offend anyone...but when you give examples of what you see as poor quality and deal in absolutes you will offend someone.
just like anyone else...artists want to stay on the cutting edge as well. windows vista is on everyone's mind (i'm even running it as we speak). from my point of view, i don't want to spend months on a project for an operatings system that will be replaced in under a year. some want to create for the latest and greatest, and right now the latest and greatest is vista. personally, i'm waiting for the vista version of skinstudio before i release any new themes.
bottom line...artists need to back off for a while to "skin" their lives. we have jobs and lives just like everyone else...and catering to millions of user's every single want and need isn't much fun anymore.
as a user, i can understand your frustration. you paid for the software, you paid for the subscription...now you want content. over a period of time when you don't find content that you deem "fit" you start to get anxious. understandable.
as an artist, keep in mind that there is no "school" for skinning. yes, there are tutorials, but those only teach mechanics, not creativity and skill. the great skins you speak of don't just fall off trees. they are generally the products of years of experience. just as in your profession, either you have "it" or you don't. "it" being imagination. there is another word i mentioned..."years". over time an artist will realize that they give 100 percent effort for 30 percent acceptance by the community. it almost seems as though your average user assumes that artists work for stardock, or that it is our "job" to create content for you. i can't tell you how many emails i've gotten demanding a specific skin for someone's specific wants...and some of them get downright nasty when you tell them no. even when you post a skin...the number of requests for changes and updates to suit someone else's wants and needs can get out of hand. when i posted aten...the number of requests to change the button glows were astounding...i liked them and didn't want to change it...people got upset...is that supposed to be my probem if you don't like it? and if paying for a skin is what you want...established artists can charge more than 3,000 dollars for custom work...my going rate is 100 dollars an hour. eventually an artist can come to a realization that this isn't worth it and move on to other things. threads such as this are a perfect example as to why you don't see many of us around anymore. no artist wants to be the "example" for someone else's frustation...not after months of hard work. you may not have wanted to offend anyone...but when you give examples of what you see as poor quality and deal in absolutes you will offend someone.
just like anyone else...artists want to stay on the cutting edge as well. windows vista is on everyone's mind (i'm even running it as we speak). from my point of view, i don't want to spend months on a project for an operatings system that will be replaced in under a year. some want to create for the latest and greatest, and right now the latest and greatest is vista. personally, i'm waiting for the vista version of skinstudio before i release any new themes.
bottom line...artists need to back off for a while to "skin" their lives. we have jobs and lives just like everyone else...and catering to millions of user's every single want and need isn't much fun anymore.
-scion-
Reply #80 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 12:33 PM
so who's job is it to please you? i've never made a dime off of this. you seem like the kind of person that buys a dvd player and then gets pissed because there's no good movies at the rental store. "hey..i paid for this dvd player..i demand good movies to play on it". ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME
could YOU be the reason no one wants to post work anymore? no one wants cater to this kind of crap...way to prove a point.
Reply #80 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 12:33 PM
| I agree with the person that made this thread... I have been wondering where all the great skins are. Ever since I started paying Wincustomize, I have seen nothing but garbage on here! Then only response idiot people have is "why don't you make your own skins then" or "why don't you do better". For one thing, I have no time to waste on that. Also, I am paying to use this and to be able to download skins, but there is limited skins to download. There use to be a time where this site was great and everyday new skins would come out. Now, maybe once a week there is a new WB skin and maybe every 3 weeks some new icons come out. I am not paying for this crap! Someone is getting rich of this Wincustomize site. If people don't think that the decent skinners and skins have gone from this site, then they are probably just as stupid as they look! |
so who's job is it to please you? i've never made a dime off of this. you seem like the kind of person that buys a dvd player and then gets pissed because there's no good movies at the rental store. "hey..i paid for this dvd player..i demand good movies to play on it". ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME
could YOU be the reason no one wants to post work anymore? no one wants cater to this kind of crap...way to prove a point.
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Reply #61 Tuesday, July 11, 2006 3:24 AM
Oh good grief (pulls hair out). By he being a she I was referring to sternengalaxy, Sabine, who is a she not a he (I hope...)
Confused? You will be.... tune in to the next episode of Soap...