BumpTop 3D Desktop Prototype
Fun with physics on your desktop
Wednesday, June 21, 2006 by CariElf | Discussion: WinCustomize News
The concept behind BumpTop 3D Desktop is that people organize (or disorganize) items on their desk to convey information by how and where they are placed, and that this could be simulated on the computer desktop using a 3D physics engine. For example, let's say that you keep piles of papers that have to be processed by the end of the week on one part of your desk, say an IN box, and you move them to an OUT box as you deal with each one. With BumpTop 3D Desktop, you could do the same thing with icons of files because the icons become 3D stackable objects. You can even change the orientation of the file so that certain files stick out visually from the rest.
The physics engine is used to make the items act like real items on the desk, and you use circular motions like the ones you use with a Pocket PC to manipulate the objects. The prototype video mentions a pen, but it's not clear to me whether a stylus or other pen-like pointing device will be required for this to work. If they got the physics engine working as well as it appears in the video, it would be easy for them to make a fun casual game. However, I don't know that I'd want to do it to organize my files on a regular basis. I do like the concept of being able to arrange my desktop in 3D space, but I'll reserve judgement on the interface until (if) they come out with a working demo.
You really have to watch the video to appreciate what these people propose to do, so check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0ODskdEPnQ
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Dr W - Fences Support
Reply #2 Wednesday, June 21, 2006 8:10 PM
Reply #2 Wednesday, June 21, 2006 8:10 PM
Very cool! I've been imagining something of this nature for some time so I'm glad to see that research is happening in this very important and high-potential research area.
I can see they have some very creative innovations in play in here, I'm incredibly impressed with how they’ve been able to apply the metaphor in what they’ve done so far. It looks **exceptionally** useful and high-potential in the area of photo-management, one of the only areas in which I can feel that thumbnail representations will be particularly useful. I can see people organizing their pictures from a stack by throwing them into their various piles…how incredible would that be! (The learning cureve looks incredibly steep, but still, sign me up!!)
Otherwise, for other applications like actual desktop/document organization, looks like they still have to find a way to make those tiles distinguishable/useful. Other groups that have ventured into the 3d-relm have too fell to this same issue. Good in concept (or great in concept, like this one), but in real-use impractical, as once you get too many things you simply can’t tell them apart.
One example of this is the much more simple 3D-Space VFS (Link) for MacOS. Looks cool and good in concept but didn’t work because the icons don’t have labels until mouseover. Similarly I see with this very cool demo with some amazing technology, still it lacks labels, and organization helpers via group and area labeling / color coding / etc. And thumbnails, which would be a prime alternative for labels, would mainly be useless because as it turns out it’s simply not a direct correlation between a 8.5x11in document sitting on our desk which has lots of detail and can be easily seen...and a 1x1inch icon/thumbnail on our computer’s screen, particularly with the input devices we use today. All that withstanding, some of these concepts that they do in this demo get real close to making the desktop a better place to spend the day, pretty friggin awesome, “flipping” through piles etc
More research please! 
What’s everyone else’s thoughts I’d like to discuss!
I can see they have some very creative innovations in play in here, I'm incredibly impressed with how they’ve been able to apply the metaphor in what they’ve done so far. It looks **exceptionally** useful and high-potential in the area of photo-management, one of the only areas in which I can feel that thumbnail representations will be particularly useful. I can see people organizing their pictures from a stack by throwing them into their various piles…how incredible would that be! (The learning cureve looks incredibly steep, but still, sign me up!!)
Otherwise, for other applications like actual desktop/document organization, looks like they still have to find a way to make those tiles distinguishable/useful. Other groups that have ventured into the 3d-relm have too fell to this same issue. Good in concept (or great in concept, like this one), but in real-use impractical, as once you get too many things you simply can’t tell them apart.
One example of this is the much more simple 3D-Space VFS (Link) for MacOS. Looks cool and good in concept but didn’t work because the icons don’t have labels until mouseover. Similarly I see with this very cool demo with some amazing technology, still it lacks labels, and organization helpers via group and area labeling / color coding / etc. And thumbnails, which would be a prime alternative for labels, would mainly be useless because as it turns out it’s simply not a direct correlation between a 8.5x11in document sitting on our desk which has lots of detail and can be easily seen...and a 1x1inch icon/thumbnail on our computer’s screen, particularly with the input devices we use today. All that withstanding, some of these concepts that they do in this demo get real close to making the desktop a better place to spend the day, pretty friggin awesome, “flipping” through piles etc
More research please! 
What’s everyone else’s thoughts I’d like to discuss!
ZubaZ
Reply #3 Wednesday, June 21, 2006 11:43 PM
Reply #3 Wednesday, June 21, 2006 11:43 PM
Real-world models only work when they can be implementned with real-world tools. I imagine that interacting with BumpTop with a mouse would be worse than awkward. Until TabletPCs or the new Ultramobile (or whatever they are branded as today) are common systems like this won't work
I have a Tablet and would be willing to try something like this. But then again . . it'll be a while before componants are small enough and powerful enough to push all that around and still be light enough to carry around all day.
If Jeff thinks it's cool . . . I'm going to assume it is and worth pursuing.
Adamness
Reply #5 Thursday, June 22, 2006 12:50 AM
Reply #5 Thursday, June 22, 2006 12:50 AM
Interesting, and good presentation. However, I'm not too sure how practical this is. Even if I had a tablet, I'd probably end up even more disorganized. Probably very resource hungry too.
That being said, where can I get it?
That being said, where can I get it?
Will Rose
Reply #6 Thursday, June 22, 2006 1:18 AM
Reply #6 Thursday, June 22, 2006 1:18 AM
It's a fascinating model, and I would love to see this implemented correctly. Zubaz is right about the method of interaction, but I'd take it one step further...
Although being able to toss and grab documents as you would on your physical desktop is very intuitive and efficient, I think it only becomes practical for the virtualization shown in the video when the next logical step is also taken. In the real world, when I pick up that paper spreadsheet, I can instantly read it. I can also instantly drop it, pick up a memo and instantly read that as well, even viewing them side by side.
To enable this in the virtual world, a delay to wait for Excel or Word or the Acrobat Reader to load is unacceptable. All these applications would have to be open all the time, and document load times would have to be dramatically reduced. Also, the windowing system used to display those applications would have to support more sophisticated compositing, to allow application windows to be tilted or shrunk to support the intuitive viewing of multiple documents.
This step will require PCs with a much higher memory capacity than available today, and significantly increased CPU/GPU power, perhaps even caching the entire HD to RAM. Today's memory capacities are 100 times greater than 12 years ago... Perhaps in another 10 years we'll see the PC with 100GB of RAM.
Nonetheless, I think this demo is a brilliant concept. I'm glad to see people thinking like this.
Although being able to toss and grab documents as you would on your physical desktop is very intuitive and efficient, I think it only becomes practical for the virtualization shown in the video when the next logical step is also taken. In the real world, when I pick up that paper spreadsheet, I can instantly read it. I can also instantly drop it, pick up a memo and instantly read that as well, even viewing them side by side.
To enable this in the virtual world, a delay to wait for Excel or Word or the Acrobat Reader to load is unacceptable. All these applications would have to be open all the time, and document load times would have to be dramatically reduced. Also, the windowing system used to display those applications would have to support more sophisticated compositing, to allow application windows to be tilted or shrunk to support the intuitive viewing of multiple documents.
This step will require PCs with a much higher memory capacity than available today, and significantly increased CPU/GPU power, perhaps even caching the entire HD to RAM. Today's memory capacities are 100 times greater than 12 years ago... Perhaps in another 10 years we'll see the PC with 100GB of RAM.
Nonetheless, I think this demo is a brilliant concept. I'm glad to see people thinking like this.
Envisaged0ne
Reply #8 Thursday, June 22, 2006 4:30 AM
Reply #8 Thursday, June 22, 2006 4:30 AM
I think it's awesome! I love it and could see that becoming the Virtual Desktop of the future. Microsoft might want to consider either implimenting something similar or maybe even working with the BumpTop 3D Developers to intigrate it into Vista, or eventually Vienna. I agree with Sir Will Rose, it would be nicer if you could instantly see the PDF or Word file when you click on it, but with todays technology it seems to not be possible. Maybe they could find a way to somehow speed it up anyway so that it wouldn't be so bad. Pre-caching the programs needed right now certainly would take up a lot of CPU power and suck up all your RAM. But I believe almost anything is possible if you work hard enough at it. Maybe, somehow, they can come up with a sollution with todays technology.
Jan71
Reply #9 Thursday, June 22, 2006 6:22 AM
Reply #9 Thursday, June 22, 2006 6:22 AM
this is interesting, but there are things I can immediately think of that lack.
First of all, currently every normal person has everything organized in folders.
It would be awesome if you could put a link to a folder on that 3D space and that it creates automatically a pile. Also subfolder could be accesible like a book (flip through its contents).
Someone else already mentioned the lack of labels.
Another suggestion : your running programs should be accesible in real time on another pile.
And finally, how do you go back and forth to this desktop ? currently, I have 10 windows open, and usually more. not to mention that I use a tabbed browser, or it would be worse.
The best workable system I found until now to switch between programs, is the taskbar.
just my 2 cents
Jan
First of all, currently every normal person has everything organized in folders.
It would be awesome if you could put a link to a folder on that 3D space and that it creates automatically a pile. Also subfolder could be accesible like a book (flip through its contents).
Someone else already mentioned the lack of labels.
Another suggestion : your running programs should be accesible in real time on another pile.
And finally, how do you go back and forth to this desktop ? currently, I have 10 windows open, and usually more. not to mention that I use a tabbed browser, or it would be worse.
The best workable system I found until now to switch between programs, is the taskbar.
just my 2 cents
Jan
Fourth Letter
Reply #10 Thursday, June 22, 2006 7:54 AM
Reply #10 Thursday, June 22, 2006 7:54 AM
Certainly interesting but making a progam that replicates an untidy office desk surely isn't a great idea
Burt
Reply #11 Thursday, June 22, 2006 10:03 AM
Reply #11 Thursday, June 22, 2006 10:03 AM
As Sir Z points out, this is really optimized for tablet users. I generally perfer to keep my desktop clean, but this strikes me as a vast improvement over any file manager I've used lately with a tablet. In combination with a VWM, I could use one desktop for file management and keep my workspaces on other desks.
This construct actually comports pretty well with the way a lot of us (well, at least me) work in the physical world. My desk is an unholy mess of piles. I can find stuff there, but I actually do my writing, etc. on another surface.
This construct actually comports pretty well with the way a lot of us (well, at least me) work in the physical world. My desk is an unholy mess of piles. I can find stuff there, but I actually do my writing, etc. on another surface.
markdotnet
Reply #12 Thursday, June 22, 2006 10:05 AM
Reply #12 Thursday, June 22, 2006 10:05 AM
Holy macaroni! That is super cool! I wonder how they'll support "folders" and such... would they be different "rooms" where you can pin things up to the walls there? I hope they can get support for the mouse. I also have a tablet PC so I'm going to sign up for the beta. Wow! SO COOL! I can't wait for Apple to claim they invented it!
Dr W - Fences Support
Reply #13 Thursday, June 22, 2006 12:41 PM
hahahaha nice
EDIT: uh oh, looks like they have ammo after all. <sigh>
Reply #13 Thursday, June 22, 2006 12:41 PM
| Wow! SO COOL! I can't wait for Apple to claim they invented it! |
hahahaha nice
EDIT: uh oh, looks like they have ammo after all. <sigh>
cavalierex
Reply #15 Thursday, June 22, 2006 9:47 PM
Reply #15 Thursday, June 22, 2006 9:47 PM
Extremely well-done model and demo. It'd be a great thing to have for the desktop, but probably won't replace the UI for browsing the rest of one's hard disk. For that, I think hierarchical folders and probably enhanced label, sort and search features are here to stay. Even in the real world, once you finish your current project, you tidy up your desk and staple things or file them away somewhere.
Can't wait until it's available for a desktop replacement.
Kudos to them -- A real innovation!
Can't wait until it's available for a desktop replacement.
Kudos to them -- A real innovation!
da_zman20
Reply #16 Thursday, June 22, 2006 9:55 PM
Reply #16 Thursday, June 22, 2006 9:55 PM
Where's Frogboy??? We need this in Object Desktop... Icon X version 8.0 ... LOL Somebody give him the idea, Stardock will probably even make it better
ZubaZ
Reply #17 Thursday, June 22, 2006 11:21 PM
Article posted by CariElf - Lead developer of Galactic Civilisations.
Comment by JMBdev, aka Jeff Bargmann, Lead dev of ObjectDock, ObjectBar, Control Center, RightClick.
Reply #17 Thursday, June 22, 2006 11:21 PM
| Somebody give him the idea, Stardock will probably even make it better |
Article posted by CariElf - Lead developer of Galactic Civilisations.
Comment by JMBdev, aka Jeff Bargmann, Lead dev of ObjectDock, ObjectBar, Control Center, RightClick.
I think Stardock is aware.
Sylpheed
Reply #19 Friday, June 23, 2006 2:55 AM
Reply #19 Friday, June 23, 2006 2:55 AM
Wow... i wanna beta test this 
would be very interesting to see how they play out applications.. from simple window apps (which shouldn't be too hard since they're "window like") to full screen mode - games mainly...
i've seen a couple of 3D desktops.. none of which seems promising.. but this one seems very promising If only Vista could implement this......
would be very interesting to see how they play out applications.. from simple window apps (which shouldn't be too hard since they're "window like") to full screen mode - games mainly...i've seen a couple of 3D desktops.. none of which seems promising.. but this one seems very promising
If only Vista could implement this......
artweasloh
Reply #20 Saturday, June 24, 2006 12:22 AM
Reply #20 Saturday, June 24, 2006 12:22 AM
This is a pretty interesting concept. Though i have reservations, this one looks totally promising and cool! Hey perhaps a feature like this could be integrated to some of Stardock's really cool proggies. And since they [the developers] are aware of it already.... it is only a matter of time and people will be seeing unexpected and better results... Whadya think?
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Reply #1 Wednesday, June 21, 2006 8:08 PM