Subscription Drive: Status report
We're not going to make it..
Thursday, October 13, 2005 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize News
If you click HERE you can see WinCustomize's traffic details. Most sites keep this kind of thing secret but we tend to operate as transparently as possible.
The key figures are: 788,000 visits per day average. 5.5 MILLION visitors this past week.
13 days into the WinCustomize subscription drive, we have a total of 345 people who have re-subscribed or subscribed new. Quite a few of them are individuals who re-subscribed long before they needed to or bought a subscription for someone else. That means a very small number of people are doing a lot of the heavy lifting for the site. 345 subscriptions means $6,900 in revenue (thank you to those who have subsribed).
As you can imagine, running a site that gets 5.5 million visitors every week is very expensive. Especially when it's on a download site. For instance, Kol's VistaXP skin has been downloaded about 2,000 times today. It's a 2MB file. That means 4,000 megabytes (4 Gigabytes) of bandwidth were used just for that one skin. So as you can imagine, the bandwidth costs of this site are immense. Moreover, as skinning gets more popular and more users interact, we need full-time people to code and manage the site. Thank goodness we have volunteers who actually run the site and a day to day basis or else there'd be no WinCustomize.
Which brings us back to the start of this news item. WinCustomize costs probably around $300,000 a year to run. That's bandwidth + salaries. Anyone in the Internet business will tell you wer're running the site on a shoe-string. A site in the top 3000 or so most popular in the world would typically cost far more. deviantART, for instance, has around two-dozen employees working just on that site.
So what happens to WinCustomize when October 31 comes and we're not even close to our goal? Well, for skinners, subscribers, and SD Customers the answer is, not much. Skinners and subscribers are going to get new stuff -- we have a Halloween skin in the works for instance and there will be subscriber-only content made in the future.
For regular users it's going to be a different story. Users are going to have to start creating accounts to access skins made that month. We'll also have to put in some code to make it more difficult for someone to simply create a duplicate account. This will likely drive away some users -- which will be part of the goal.
In the midterm, the site will begin focusing more and more on the community with the community defined as people who care about WinCustomize. That would be the skinners, the subscribers, and SD customers. People not in that category will still be able to do many things on the site, but it will be much more restrictive.
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Hippie
Reply #2 Thursday, October 13, 2005 5:00 PM
Reply #2 Thursday, October 13, 2005 5:00 PM
So, if you've bought OD, you don't get "Skinners and subscribers are going to get new stuff -- we have a Halloween skin in the works for instance and there will be subscriber-only content made in the future." Is this right?
Frogboy
Reply #3 Thursday, October 13, 2005 5:12 PM
Reply #3 Thursday, October 13, 2005 5:12 PM
Correct, only subscribers and OD users will get the Halloween skin.
MarkSnyder61
Reply #4 Thursday, October 13, 2005 5:25 PM
Reply #4 Thursday, October 13, 2005 5:25 PM
I think the price of $19.95 should be an annual subscription instead of every two years at renewal...
Frogboy
Reply #5 Thursday, October 13, 2005 5:27 PM
Reply #5 Thursday, October 13, 2005 5:27 PM
I dunno, I tend to think that the burden shouldn't be so much on subscribers but rather on those not subscribing or contributing at all.
RiddickRom
Reply #6 Thursday, October 13, 2005 5:33 PM
Reply #6 Thursday, October 13, 2005 5:33 PM
I don't mean to tell anyone how to run a site with this comment, everyone involved is well aware of what they need to do and Stardock make it clearer than you might expect about the gears behind the scenes. One point that I'd like to make is the idea that the solution to an ever expanding traffic base is to drive that traffic away. I understand there is plenty of traffic here right now that is passing through and not a large enough percentage of that traffic here for downloads is paying back into the system.
Are there really no business strategies you can employ to actually make better use of the traffic that flows through here? I'd be the first to cap downloads but in such a way that the traffic still feels that it got something it wanted and was pushed into "something" to encourage joining in. That does seem to be the main use of this site, as a place to come to get cool stuff for download. It's a shame that the focus is so heavily geared towards that as I find the other areas on the site at least as interesting.
Obviously no random traffic is ever going to subscribe to a site the first time they use it and a fear I'd have is that if you push too hard, you'll only be left with recurring subscriptions for the already committed userbase. Full page ads for a single download, popups, anything apart from malware would seem like the kind of approach that might allow the traffic to continue to grow. Limit what passers by can get, I'd even vote for the idea that after the first download you have to sign up. The heavy advertising would surely gain a bit more revenue from the passers by and start to correct the balance. While that's happening, working on multiple things to encourage subscribing and not just subscribing but pulling people in. Considering the amount of traffic this site has, the forum is extremely quiet. I'd be wondering where the problem was that was stopping a larger percentage of people who are obviously interested in this subject, but are not hanging out more here to discover more.
If people aren't subscribing in large enough numbers now, you have to ask yourself what is the reason for this, rather than feel how unfair that is, and I agree it is unfair. When you know the reasons at least you can begin to correct the problem. I'd conduct many polls and have some real think tank sessions on strategies that really allow growth and increased revenue.
I personally don't care at all whether this site is operated for the community or primarily for profit. The two can co-exist happily and that's happening on the most successful sites online. So if that's the case, then why not go all out for profit? I mention that as it often feels like the tone of the place here is very much on maintaining the status quo and you can see a lot of members here will quickly defend this site, in fact more so than I am used to seeing. It appears members are settled in to the community of friends and aquantances and the staff have that same approach, at least that's my impression. While that is a great thing to see, I can't help wonder if that is what holds the site back. Is the reason you are willing to drive traffic away because the alternative is to have this site adapt to a more aggressive profit led approach to handling the visitors?
I guess what I'm trying to say is that here it seems the community comes before the profit the site makes. Maybe that's not a kind of model that can work when a site becomes too large.
A little more than two cents there I guess.
Are there really no business strategies you can employ to actually make better use of the traffic that flows through here? I'd be the first to cap downloads but in such a way that the traffic still feels that it got something it wanted and was pushed into "something" to encourage joining in. That does seem to be the main use of this site, as a place to come to get cool stuff for download. It's a shame that the focus is so heavily geared towards that as I find the other areas on the site at least as interesting.
Obviously no random traffic is ever going to subscribe to a site the first time they use it and a fear I'd have is that if you push too hard, you'll only be left with recurring subscriptions for the already committed userbase. Full page ads for a single download, popups, anything apart from malware would seem like the kind of approach that might allow the traffic to continue to grow. Limit what passers by can get, I'd even vote for the idea that after the first download you have to sign up. The heavy advertising would surely gain a bit more revenue from the passers by and start to correct the balance. While that's happening, working on multiple things to encourage subscribing and not just subscribing but pulling people in. Considering the amount of traffic this site has, the forum is extremely quiet. I'd be wondering where the problem was that was stopping a larger percentage of people who are obviously interested in this subject, but are not hanging out more here to discover more.
If people aren't subscribing in large enough numbers now, you have to ask yourself what is the reason for this, rather than feel how unfair that is, and I agree it is unfair. When you know the reasons at least you can begin to correct the problem. I'd conduct many polls and have some real think tank sessions on strategies that really allow growth and increased revenue.
I personally don't care at all whether this site is operated for the community or primarily for profit. The two can co-exist happily and that's happening on the most successful sites online. So if that's the case, then why not go all out for profit? I mention that as it often feels like the tone of the place here is very much on maintaining the status quo and you can see a lot of members here will quickly defend this site, in fact more so than I am used to seeing. It appears members are settled in to the community of friends and aquantances and the staff have that same approach, at least that's my impression. While that is a great thing to see, I can't help wonder if that is what holds the site back. Is the reason you are willing to drive traffic away because the alternative is to have this site adapt to a more aggressive profit led approach to handling the visitors?
I guess what I'm trying to say is that here it seems the community comes before the profit the site makes. Maybe that's not a kind of model that can work when a site becomes too large.
A little more than two cents there I guess.
Beta12345
Reply #7 Thursday, October 13, 2005 5:56 PM
Reply #7 Thursday, October 13, 2005 5:56 PM
About a month ago I found this site and in the last month I have been having a good look around, talking to some people from here and from D.A. and trying to figure out whetehr or not this would be a good place to become a member of. Well unfortunately I dont get very good feedback. But not being one that takes anybody's word for anything, I have been looking around to try and evaluate the benefits pro and con. Now if you take a look at my stats anybody you will see that I dont download very much. I dont think i've downlaoded 3 files...But one thing that does stop me from subscribing is your policies. Maybe I am misunderstanding but I know that a lot of people that I have spoken with on D.A have told me they have been mistreated and that they feel that they were used only to pay the subscription fee. Y0u know I even seen somewhere something about exiling people for some reason or demoting people. I dont know, this is all new to me. I guess I jsut wonder how a site could ask you to pay for a subscription and cut your benefits. You know like I said I dont like to take anybody's word for anything but with the amount of new subscriptions that I do see, I definetely do think there is a problem, especially with the amount of traffic that Wincustomized gets. So maybe if would be an asset to Wincustomized to start reveing their policies...Just my two cents !
MountainDragon
Reply #8 Thursday, October 13, 2005 6:07 PM
I really think it's pretty simple: the bulk of people are perfectly willing to take something for free if it's available. Since the downloads are there for free, and that is most likely what most people are looking for, there is no reason for them to subscribe.
The idea of "making better use of the traffic" misses this point. If running a download site for free (for most users) is not paying the bills, then stop doing it for free. Simple.
Unless Brad wants to turn WinCustomize into a massive profit-making site. That's another question.
Reply #8 Thursday, October 13, 2005 6:07 PM
| If people aren't subscribing in large enough numbers now, you have to ask yourself what is the reason for this |
I really think it's pretty simple: the bulk of people are perfectly willing to take something for free if it's available. Since the downloads are there for free, and that is most likely what most people are looking for, there is no reason for them to subscribe.
The idea of "making better use of the traffic" misses this point. If running a download site for free (for most users) is not paying the bills, then stop doing it for free. Simple.
Unless Brad wants to turn WinCustomize into a massive profit-making site. That's another question.
BasketWeaver
Reply #9 Thursday, October 13, 2005 6:13 PM
Reply #9 Thursday, October 13, 2005 6:13 PM
My subscription expires May 2006. You want me to renew now? I was going to wait until May untill I read your comments just now. Money is tight but I could scrounge it up if it will make a difference. Let me know 
bazokajoe_2k
Reply #10 Thursday, October 13, 2005 6:16 PM
Reply #10 Thursday, October 13, 2005 6:16 PM
About a week into my subscription, it's well worth it. For one, I'm helping support a site that I use regularally. It's important to understand that sending out data costs $$$, and if nobody is willing to pay up for a service they use, that service won't be around forever. Secondly, the WinCustomize browser is almost worth it's weight in gold. There are a few areas that could use improvement, but all in all it's a fantastic tool to get skins.
I fully agree that there should be an increased amount of "Subscriber-only" features. You have to entice people to buy a subscription, one easy way for that is to put out stuff that people would want. One idea comes to mind is 6-12 "professional" suites per year available only to subscribers.
I apologize for the poorly-written quality of this post. I am exhausted. But all in all this is a fantastic site that supports a very large community that deserves to be supported. $19.95 is not a huge amount of money. I know in 4 months I won't even remember paying it. And 2 years for the same price for renewing? Fantastic bargain.
I fully agree that there should be an increased amount of "Subscriber-only" features. You have to entice people to buy a subscription, one easy way for that is to put out stuff that people would want. One idea comes to mind is 6-12 "professional" suites per year available only to subscribers.
I apologize for the poorly-written quality of this post. I am exhausted. But all in all this is a fantastic site that supports a very large community that deserves to be supported. $19.95 is not a huge amount of money. I know in 4 months I won't even remember paying it. And 2 years for the same price for renewing? Fantastic bargain.
Frogboy
Reply #11 Thursday, October 13, 2005 6:24 PM
Reply #11 Thursday, October 13, 2005 6:24 PM
| About a month ago I found this site and in the last month I have been having a good look around, talking to some people from here and from D.A. and trying to figure out whetehr or not this would be a good place to become a member of. Well unfortunately I dont get very good feedback. But not being one that takes anybody's word for anything, I have been looking around to try and evaluate the benefits pro and con. Now if you take a look at my stats anybody you will see that I dont download very much. I dont think i've downlaoded 3 files...But one thing that does stop me from subscribing is your policies. Maybe I am misunderstanding but I know that a lot of people that I have spoken with on D.A have told me they have been mistreated and that they feel that they were used only to pay the subscription fee. Y0u know I even seen somewhere something about exiling people for some reason or demoting people. I dont know, this is all new to me. I guess I jsut wonder how a site could ask you to pay for a subscription and cut your benefits. You know like I said I dont like to take anybody's word for anything but with the amount of new subscriptions that I do see, I definetely do think there is a problem, especially with the amount of traffic that Wincustomized gets. So maybe if would be an asset to Wincustomized to start reveing their policies...Just my two cents ! |
Beta: We probably exile maybe 5 users per year. People only get exiled for violating the posted rules such as severe personal attacks, advocating software piracy, etc. I think only 1 person who has a subscription has been exiled and they had received ample warning.
Like any on-line service, just because you subscribe doesn't mean that you can violate the terms of service. If I buy a subscription to World of Warcraft, I can be banned from the game at any time for violating the rules of the site.
Which policy, precisely do you think is a problem? https://www.wincustomize.com/AboutSite.aspx
Hippie
Reply #12 Thursday, October 13, 2005 6:31 PM
Reply #12 Thursday, October 13, 2005 6:31 PM
I know you want me to subscribe, but, I'm an OD owner, so is that still cool. Do I still get the Halloween skin? My subscription doesn't run out till May or June. Right now is just a bad time. $19.95. I know it's not that much, but I'm on a fixed income, and there's no way right now. And honestly, I would like to do it. I think the WC Browser would be cool.
Frogboy
Reply #13 Thursday, October 13, 2005 6:32 PM
Reply #13 Thursday, October 13, 2005 6:32 PM
OD customers don't get the Halloween skin. Just subscribers. Hippie, you shouldn't feel you have to subscribe. A halloween skin, after all, is definitely a luxury.
Hippie
Reply #14 Thursday, October 13, 2005 6:39 PM
Reply #14 Thursday, October 13, 2005 6:39 PM
Citizen Beta12345. I used to go to DA. It has changed so much, you can't find anything. I go there maybe once a month. I come here 10 times a day. I'm addicted to this site, and all that's on it. And these are some very good people.
RiddickRom
Reply #15 Thursday, October 13, 2005 6:46 PM
I might have agreed with that line years ago but I've seen too many sites thrive by giving things away, for free. Look at DeviantArt as an example of how a site can grow on the basis of giving stuff away. I could spend a long time listing a tonne of other sites that make this work through various means but ultimately it is to miss the point, to focus on the approach "how do we get rid of the leechers to solve our problems" exclusively and not explore ways to actually profit from the success the site has, well it strikes me as a missed opportunity.
Reply #15 Thursday, October 13, 2005 6:46 PM
| I really think it's pretty simple: the bulk of people are perfectly willing to take something for free if it's available. Since the downloads are there for free, and that is most likely what most people are looking for, there is no reason for them to subscribe. The idea of "making better use of the traffic" misses this point. If running a download site for free (for most users) is not paying the bills, then stop doing it for free. Simple. Unless Brad wants to turn WinCustomize into a massive profit-making site. That's another question. |
I might have agreed with that line years ago but I've seen too many sites thrive by giving things away, for free. Look at DeviantArt as an example of how a site can grow on the basis of giving stuff away. I could spend a long time listing a tonne of other sites that make this work through various means but ultimately it is to miss the point, to focus on the approach "how do we get rid of the leechers to solve our problems" exclusively and not explore ways to actually profit from the success the site has, well it strikes me as a missed opportunity.
Beta12345
Reply #16 Thursday, October 13, 2005 7:09 PM
Reply #16 Thursday, October 13, 2005 7:09 PM
Admin Frogboy As you are aware, I am not a member so I will jsut look at one policy to start with...if I go into any of your download sections I see ratings...and I have noticed that some ratings I dont believe to be very just. I look at some of the skins and to my point of view they are better than some of the skins that are higher rated, but that is neither here nor there. Basically my post was on an observation that I've made on talking with people. For example, I was at D.A. and I asked one of the guys over there who I cannot mention because that would be indiscreet, why they didnt upload their works at Wincustomized as I thought it was good work, and asked them if it was because they didnt have a subscription.And they replied to me that they were subscribers here but they were not able to upload over here. so I looked at that as an isolated case and had spoke with some other people, who basically told me the same thing and also commented about ratings. You know all in all, I am not trying to knock Wincustomized. I am pretty sure it is a nice place to be..but..what I am saying is that with that kind of negative pulblicity and not just acquiring this from one source, that there must be something that is making people very unhappy. So therefore that is why I am saying maybe there is something that Wincustomized could look at, although I know you cant make everybody happy, but look at statistics, over 5 million visitors, 350 subsucriptions. There seems to be something wrong. It just does not add up.
WOM
Reply #17 Thursday, October 13, 2005 7:13 PM
Reply #17 Thursday, October 13, 2005 7:13 PM
HUM
WC has subscriptions DA does also.
Theres is far costlier than WC
WC sell things, some their own and some by skinners Da does also
WC has adds Da does also, excepy more of them
One major difference is WC is policed, uploads and forums and for the most part DA isn't.
If skinners can't get something approved at WC, they dump it on DA.
Think about that.
WC has subscriptions DA does also.
Theres is far costlier than WC
WC sell things, some their own and some by skinners Da does also
WC has adds Da does also, excepy more of them
One major difference is WC is policed, uploads and forums and for the most part DA isn't.
If skinners can't get something approved at WC, they dump it on DA.
Think about that.
gfcentral002
Reply #18 Thursday, October 13, 2005 7:15 PM
Reply #18 Thursday, October 13, 2005 7:15 PM
i haven't regretted once paying for object desktop, or paying the wincustomize.com subscription either. (i love not having ads show up on the web pages). i think it is the best thing i've paid for for an online subscription (besides streamload, i still pay the monthly charge for that, but only $4.95 lol and i buy music from iTunes). i see no problem in offering stuff exclusively for subscribers ~ i think it would kinda be like a perk for subscribing. i too visit DA often, but i hate how everytime i try to do a search i get some stupid page error... 
i think there's too much stuff and a lot of it sometimes seems like crap too - that's a big reason i love coming here is i think it's organized, so many search options, and *usually* good stuff on here, nothing really bad i don't think. my object desktop subscription is expired in a few days - i'm going to renew it as soon as i submit this post 
i think there's too much stuff and a lot of it sometimes seems like crap too - that's a big reason i love coming here is i think it's organized, so many search options, and *usually* good stuff on here, nothing really bad i don't think. my object desktop subscription is expired in a few days - i'm going to renew it as soon as i submit this post 
kevo61
Reply #19 Thursday, October 13, 2005 7:33 PM
Reply #19 Thursday, October 13, 2005 7:33 PM
Just like Hippy said, I am addicted to this site. I use it for my home page and I visit it every time I set in front of my computer.I do dowmload quite a bit from WC because I love customizing my desktop.I would never want to see WC go to a pay as you download system or something like that, that is why I subscribe to this site and buy the apps, from Stardock. I cant believe there are so many visitors to this site and do not take part. Maybe WC should limit the amount of download much more than it is now.One or two should be enough to figure out if you like it or not.
While I`m at it I would like to thank all the great artist`s that share all there talent with us because I know it is time consuming and I do not have the time or the patience to do it myself so again THANK YOU !!!
While I`m at it I would like to thank all the great artist`s that share all there talent with us because I know it is time consuming and I do not have the time or the patience to do it myself so again THANK YOU !!!
RiddickRom
Reply #20 Thursday, October 13, 2005 8:03 PM
That's an interesting point of view and I'm sure a lot of people who come here purely to download would say the same. I tend to think that the "crap" is exactly what a community should offer as well as the cream. Giving feedback on how to improve submissions and learning from those that know better, that's what community is all about. If you simply provide the best, you've become elitist and block out many chances to grow a skinner just starting out into a pretty good skinner thats addicted to this sites community.
Reply #20 Thursday, October 13, 2005 8:03 PM
| i think there's too much stuff and a lot of it sometimes seems like crap too - that's a big reason i love coming here is i think it's organized, so many search options, and *usually* good stuff on here, |
That's an interesting point of view and I'm sure a lot of people who come here purely to download would say the same. I tend to think that the "crap" is exactly what a community should offer as well as the cream. Giving feedback on how to improve submissions and learning from those that know better, that's what community is all about. If you simply provide the best, you've become elitist and block out many chances to grow a skinner just starting out into a pretty good skinner thats addicted to this sites community.
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Reply #1 Thursday, October 13, 2005 4:52 PM
Just my two cents