Thoughts on DesktopX's future
Life in a Windows Vista world
Monday, November 21, 2005 by Frogboy | Discussion: DesktopX
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Stardock makes DesktopX Enterprise which can export entire desktops as enviroments and even then has licensing involved per seat. Why does Stardock do that? Our answer: Because we don't really want people to do that because it could compete with premium content Stardock creates/sells with DesktopX. But the whole discussion touches on the problem that has plagued DesktopX since the beginning -- what exactly IS DesktopX? It's own versatility has been helped it and hurt it because no one knows what exactly it's supposed to do. It gets compared to the myriad of widget programs like Konfabulator because it can, amongst a zillion other things, do widgets. It gets compared to Litestep because you can build desktops. It gets compared to Avedesk because it can put desktop objects on your system. It gets compared to Visual Studio and Visual Basic because you can integrate COM/ActiveX controls into your creations seamlessly. DesktopX can essentially build anything that lives on a desktop. You could build a custom spread sheet: DesktopX can be used to create fancy auto-run programs. Stardock uses it internally to create its auto-run programs: But there is always the issue -- how much does one charge for this? Creating these things was non-trivial and there is some value in our stuff looking "Better" than would be competitors in other markets because of this. Value that would be greater than say $69.95 really. Someone could buy DesktopX Pro for $69.95 and start up a business creating auto-runs for companies. But still there's always a question on pricing.
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No because it requires immense effort still. Visual Studio can't turn out a Word processor in a couple of weeks. DesktopX Pro can build some very specific types of unique content without alot of effort. Let's use Natural Desktop as an example -- with DesktopX Enterprise, we built that in a few weeks with just a couple people. With Visual Studio, it would have taken many many many months to do it. For building desktops, DesktopX is very specialized at the types of content it can create just as programs like Maya are specialized to create 3D models. There were a lot of people at Stardock who didn't want DesktopX Pro or Enteprise to exist at all (particularly Enterprise). If Konfabulator has shown anything to be true it is that the CONTENT matters more than the technology of the thing that uses the content. DesktopX can create, relatively easily, a very specific type of unique content that people want. So the question is which direction is best? Turn DesktopX into a quasi-internal-only tool to create other stuff to sell that is stand-alone? Or to make it available to other developers who might compete with content Stardock might want to sell? There's no easy answer. Let me give you a totally unrelated example: The Political Machine. Stardock developed a Direct3D backend for DesktopX to take its .dxpacks and run them in a 3D environment. As a result, Stardock was able to crank out the user interfaces and screens for The Political Machine in a very short amount of time. This allowed Stardock to cut development time on the game in half. This led to the question -- should Stardock try to encourage/sell DesktopX Enterprise to other game developers to help them (And generate additional revenue) or should DesktopX Enterprise be used as a competitive advantage for Stardock's own internal game design teams? Like most things, the answer ended up somewhere in between -- we decided that we would tell people how we wer able to create all these game screens so fast but we wouldn't encourage people too much to use DesktopX for game making unless they came to us and negotiated licensing. The Desktop Pet is a good example and you'll see why when it comes out. That was created with DesktopX Pro (not Enterprise). The Desktop Pet will probably sell 5,000 to 10,000 copies on-line and if we get it into retail another 20,000 to 30,000 units. You couldn't create a desktop pet with say Konfabulator or any of the other "widget" programs because they're currently too limited. But DesktopX Pro, out of the box, can do it. One developer and one 3D modeler in a couple months. And there's nothing out ther that is anywhere near as sophisticated. But there's nothing stopping someone else from doing the same thing as we're doing. All some larger company would have to do is pick up a copy of DesktopX Pro for $69.95 and create "Virtual Rover" or something and have a hit leaving our pet in the dust. So again, there is always some conflict over how DesktopX should be marketed. Some might say "Why does Stardock even let DesktopX be available at all to the public?" A good example was a product we barely publicized because the pricing was never easy to nail down. It was called Impression Creator. It made it easy to create those auto-run menus that you see when you put your CD in the drive. We noticed something -- most of those menus look terrible and most of them look as if the developer was trying to make them quasi-skinned. But with Impression Creator (which is just DesktopX Pro re-branded) you could create spectacular ones in an afternoon. But what killed it is when DesktopX's price was moved to $69.95. At that point, it was too much of a niche market to justify putting scarce marketing resources into. Moreover, we've seen that the person or company creating the content gets more credit than the technology behind it. We'd be better off providing such content creation as a service that we could then bring in skinners from the community to work with us on. Despite all the power of DesktopX, third-parties have not really done that much with it. This is the opposite experience we've had with WindowBlinds where skinners run the show. So far, because people make trinkets like clocks or try to copy what's been done on Konfabulator, the issue with what DesktopX should and shouldn't do has never come to a head. A few months back someone made an Aero web browser using DesktopX that was fully compatible with Internet Explorer (it uses its ActiveX control). I know that raised some eye brows around here. Some people forget that DesktopX was developed during a different time in the skinning community. The target market for it was skinners (same as WindowBlinds). It was expected that the community would jump in and figure out all the neat things that can be done with it. But that didn't happen. And so 4 years later, Konfabulator shows up on the Mac and then eventually on Windows. And unlike DesktopX, its developer included abunch of really cool content it made itself. It wasn't made with skinners in mind, making a Konfabulator widget (especially when it was first released) was huge pain. They focused purely on the consumers -- the users. Imagine how different DesktopX's history might have been in 75% of the budget wasn't spend on the content creation elements -- the GUI for creating, manipulating, and exporting objects and desktops? 6 months alone were spent figuring out how to make ActiveX controls move seamlessly with other DekstopX objects. Nothing else can do that. But how many things use ActiveX controls? Hardly any. It's incredibly powerful stuff but instead people debate which is "better" based on how pretty the little PNG files that display clocks and weather monitors and other trivialities. In other words, Stardock developed DesktopX under the misconception that the key to success was getting "Skinners" on board. But that has changed in the past few years. What we've seen both in our own experience is that consumers are driving success. Consumers will choose what they find easiest/best to use and THEN the skinners will follow what the consumers are already doing. It doesn't matter that Konfabulator and the rest have no real development environment for the skinner. The skinner will sit down in some editor and peck out their XML and their JavaScript and deal with all the other hassles because that's where all the user are. The problem is that DesktopX is still saddled with all this development environment stuff which adds a great deal of complexity and overhead to the actual environment (unless you use just the DesktopX run-time which we did in 3.0). If there's a DesktopX 4, I think you'll find it a very very different animal. It'll not care about the content creation, it'll use XAML what content creation help it provides will mostly be about making it easier to do simple things (widgets for instance) but fancier things would be done using Sparkle and what not. But it's hard to say this early on. |
Reply #42 Thursday, December 1, 2005 2:53 AM
Reply #43 Thursday, December 1, 2005 5:01 AM

Reply #44 Sunday, December 11, 2005 6:40 PM
With that, I go tangenital:
(Talk about a whole business plan restructure.... maybe I should've gone to college and got an MBA (but then, maybe even going to college would've helped
).)Basic edition-
An end-user runtime that supports WindowBlinds and DesktopX and other Stardock enhancements simultaneously? Imagine one program to support skinning Windows, desktop enhancements, icon skinning, taskbar skinning, widgets, etc. simultaneously? For $19 (US) the user can visit wincustomize (and have a subscription... more relating to that coming later...) and download WB skins, DX themes, etc. and utilize them. Maybe include simple customizations, i.e.: color schemes etc. for free. Much like Windows lets you change desktop / text colors, backgrounds, icon sizes, etc. Let the user have some degree of customization over the 'theme' but they can't modify layout, behaviours, graphics, look-and-feel, etc. $19(US)
Skin creator edition-
Develop your own skins / themes / icons for personal use only. $15 plus runtime.
Object creator express edition-
Build your own objects for personal use only. $15 plus runtime.
Enthusiast's express edition-
Includes object and skin creator's editions together. $20 plus runtime.
A skin professional edition which lets creators share their skins / themes / icons. $89(US) total, or $55 to add this to the skin creator edition, $50 to add this capability to the enthusiast express level... but read on... incentives are to be found later....
An object professional edition which lets you share your objects. $89(US) total, $55 to add this to the object creator version, $50 to add this functionality to the enthusiast express level, ... there's money to be made, read on....
A Professional version-
Skinner and Object developer editions combined: distribute skins / themes / icons AND widgets on wincustomize. $139(US)... sounds expensive, I know, but read on....
An enterprise version-
Do everything... themes, skins, icons, objects... freely distributable. No strings....
$499 for a corporation limited to distribution within its organization.
$999 for free world-distribution rights.
Now for the stuff I've been telling you all to read on for:
Downloads from wincustomize are not free... maybe give $10 credit on wincustomize with purchase of the runtime. Possibly allow pre-purchasing of credit as well with an incentive: "buy $15 dollars now, and we'll give you $5 in credit free".
Count each individual skin / theme / icon pack / object as 1/2 of a download.
Once they've exceeded that, then charge for each download.
$1.99 for a full theme with objects, $.99 for a theme without objects, $.50 for a skin, theme or object individually. Kick 25-50% back to the creator. Wincustomize gets paid for hosting the file (and maybe residuals?), the creator gets paid for their work and it doesn't cost the end-user all that much. Credits do not expire. You could also expand on this with time-limited 'trials' of themes, skins, objects, etc.
Reply #46 Monday, December 12, 2005 2:59 PM
| Any idea when DX 3.2 will be coming out? |
I also am curious. If the new separated scripts functionality will be available relatively soon, I will postpone working on a "big" project until I can take advantage of that. On the other hand, if 3.2 is months away (or not going to happen at all) then I may as well get crackin'!
Reply #47 Monday, December 12, 2005 6:07 PM
I'd guess January sometime, but I might be wrong.
Reply #48 Sunday, December 18, 2005 1:48 PM
Just finished reading your article. I have a couple of thoughts i would like to share. You keep saying how powerful DX (Object DesktopX) is. Your right it is. That is part of the problem, For the average person who would like to make an outstanding Desktop or object. You seem to be upset with the skinning community for not making use of it's power, That all they do is make calendars and weather objects. Well I am sure that there are many skinners out there that have some great plans for some exciting themes and or widgets. But there is a big barrier in front of them. Most of them know you need scripts, To do the high power things. But they don't know how to write scripts, They Can't get scripts and if they could they don't know how to implement them. I know because i have run into this situation often. You sit and wait until some one comes out with a script that you can use or modify. Try finding any one who can write script that has the time or is willing to help you with a script. You can not expect the average skinner to make use of a high powered program with out giving them all of the tools to make use of it. Or at least some place where they can get help.. If your looking for some one to take full advantage of the power of DX without giving them the sources to work with, Well That's when you hire some one who has extensive back ground in scripting and graphics. Especially if you are looking to make money off of the themes and widgets. Also you have to keep in mind that you are dealing with people that are doing this for fun not profit, So if it is to hard or complicated what is the incentive to make bigger and better things.
If this is to continue to be a community of skinners that do this for fun and love of skinning, And to be able to make better things they need more help to understand what DX is all about. I know that any one can ask about something in the forum, But all to often i see where no one will give an answer or they will give a smart *** answer..(if you look down in the lower corner you might find a hint) But then if you think about it there really are not that many people that know any thing about DX .
On another note i don't understand why every one is saying they are having so many problems with DX I have found DX 3 to be pretty stable..
Reply #49 Sunday, December 18, 2005 3:32 PM
| On another note i don't understand why every one is saying they are having so many problems with DX I have found DX 3 to be pretty stable.. |
Have you used it just as a client or have you been building widgets with it?
Reply #50 Sunday, December 18, 2005 5:13 PM
| Yes but unfortunately not many people can harness these powers because of limited knowledge, ie writing scripts. I include myself in this. How many people can say they are good script writers, have good graphics skills and create DesktopX themes? I know there are some out there but I guess not a great number |
Its too bad there wasnt more basic script available for those of us that have no knowledge on script writing. I thought I saw awhile back , someone was looking to start a website that would offer script for public use. I thought they were looking for volunteers to join them in the endeavor...guess it didnt pan out.
DesktopX is still one of the best programs..but, is not that easy for the average person to learn.
Reply #51 Sunday, December 18, 2005 5:52 PM
| Have you used it just as a client or have you been building widgets with it? |
Yes I have made A Few widgets, How ever mostly I make DXthemes, And yes I do have a few problems with it. But not as many problems as i have with other programs. Before DX 3 I did have more problems then it was worth, So I stoped using it. Now that DX 3 is out i have been making themes again. So far I find it very stable..
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Reply #41 Wednesday, November 30, 2005 1:55 PM
For my final major project that I will begin working on after New Year I will be making the function of the program in .NET and expose appropriate properties, functions and events in an ActiveX for which I can layer DesktopX onto. I've been looking forward to doing such a project for ages, I just haven't had time. So I find it a bit unsettling that DX might nto develope further, at least not publicly. I really do hope it will.