DesktopX 3.1 Reviewed
Ars Technica takes a look
Sunday, November 20, 2005 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize News
Ars Technica has a pretty balanced review of DesktopX 3.1. They have put both the good, the bad, and the ugly of the popular desktop enhancement utility from Stardock. Their advice to Stardock is to a) Include better content,
Clarify widgets and objects more closely and c) Have more configuration options available. Overall they seemed to like it. Check it out for yourself.
Here are our nits with the article:
- DesktopX widgets don't have a "signficant memory" overhead. In an age where Notepad uses 8 megs, the 2 to 3 megabyte run-time for a DesktopX widget is pretty trivial. Certainly less than most (if not all) the competing programs.
- While we're glad Ars did a review of DesktopX (finally), it was a 1 page review compared to the several page review of Konfabulator that was several pages long. Moreover, the Konfabulator review went over every included widget. DesktopX widgets may not necessarily be as "pretty" (matter of taste) but they do show off the functionality. For instance, an arcade widget is included that plays most of the classic arcade games of old. No other widget type program can do that. It would have been nice to have that mentioned.
- DesktopX supports animation in ways that no other similar program can remotely touch.
- A mention of DesktopX Pro would have been cool. You can create some pretty fantastic things. Stardock uses DesktopX to do the interface for GalCiv II, the Aquarium Desktop, and Natural Desktop.
In the meantime, DesktopX 3.2 is in development. The most major feature is probably the ability to have your scripts be seperate from the object if you so desire (for developers). For users, it'll mostly be bug fixes and some new content.
Still we think their criticisms are generally fair -- the line between objects and widgets is pretty blurred and the default content, while not bad, could always be better. We are always faced with the challenge between impressive default content and default download size.
Reply #22 Monday, November 21, 2005 11:18 AM
| I still don't understand why the cost of the product has anything to do with the amount of money someone can make using it. Another example, you can get a licensed copy of Visual C++ from Microsoft for under $100 and create a program like DesktopX. |
By that argument, then Maya should cost $100. You could get Visual Studio for $100 and develop Maya. The cost of authoring tools is defintely related to how much value they can justify.
To use Aquarium Desktop as an example-- with all the Aquarium screen savers out there, why has no one else made a decent aquarium desktop? The answer is that it's very very difficult to have fluid animation, alpha blending, and per-object scripting and DesktopX can do that.
Now that we have a site (DesktopGadgets.com) for people to sell cool stuff, we don't want someone to simply pay $70 and be competing with us on products that generate alot of revenue.
I would bet that Stardock made more on DesktopX-generated content than Konfabulator did in sales to end users. What we've learned, over the years, is that DesktopX is currently better suited as a development environment than as an end user application.
I don't know what the future has in store for DesktopX. Windows Vista is going to change the dynamic a great deal. Moreover, with Konfabulator free, it is a lot harder to justify putting time into the widget-creation elements of DesktopX (other than for DesktopX Pro).
Simply put, DesktopX has tended to try to be 3 different things -- a widget creator, a desktop extender, and a quasi-alternative shell. And those 3 things are so different that I think it makes it a) too hard to use for many people and
stretches the QA resources on it too far so that it ends up being not quite satisfying in any of the 3 areas.
Reply #23 Monday, November 21, 2005 11:47 AM

Reply #24 Monday, November 21, 2005 12:05 PM
I've never build a whole DX desktop. ANd I almost never use any of the truely awesome samples available at WC. They don't suit the way I work and take too long (IMHO) to reconfigure. I may download and go "Wow!" but then they're gone and I'm back to my (WindowBlinds, ObjectDock+ enhaced) desktop. Who are the current clients/users of DesktopX desktops(extenders or alternative shells)? What company is packaging/deploying these things? If they are there . . go for it. You found the niche, target them with DesktopX. If DesktopGadgets is brining in the big bucks . . . go there.
I think the market for a widget editor/engine is going to get very tight and the margins are going to get very thin. MS gadgets and konfabulator are going to be very hard to compete against; bigger budgets, more staff, everything.
Reply #25 Monday, November 21, 2005 12:32 PM
| Now that we have a site (DesktopGadgets.com) for people to sell cool stuff, we don't want someone to simply pay $70 and be competing with us on products that generate alot of revenue. |
But isn't that kind of like Microsoft saying that they don't want to sell a development environment for $400 or $500 and have someone make a browser or word processor that competes with them?
If you're selling a software development tool, you're basically selling to a market that's got a history, and the history seems to say that these kinds of tools just aren't that expensive, compared to what they can create.
The example of Maya is in a different market, with a different history and different price points, as far as I know.
I agree with Stupendous Man, in that it seems like the ambiguous nature of DesktopX is for you to clarify, Brad. I still think it's a great product and I enjoy using it. I do VC++ development with a DX desktop loaded all of the time now, and I wouldn't want to do without it.
Reply #26 Monday, November 21, 2005 12:52 PM

I think there is a conflict between desktops and widgets. If DesktopX themes are the main seller for DX then the information on how to customize themes should be readily available. For dummys. Part of the problem with DX is having to personalize themes. If someone creates a desktop and has links preset that are of no use to me then I want to change that. DX was the first Stardock program that caught my eye. I have figured out how to change things through the updates but I easily see how someone would have trouble keeping up to date on how to change things on a desktop. If DX themes are to be the main marketing issue, it needs to be more user friendly. I think people want more personal desktops and the libraries just don't have enough variety. Animated wallpapers! please someone start making some animated wallpapers with DX.
If Widgets are to be the main selling theme then it has a heck alot of catching up to do. Widgets....objects? Why? It is confusing.
I made several personal DX themes back in version 2 but lost interest when the software was kind of buggy. I know others that had similiar issues. Somehow things should be simpler for the developer. Not many graphic artists can write code. Not many code writers can draw graphics. Somehow the 2 must come together. Not sure how...maybe it will just happen NOW!.
Even though I like the idea of the Builder mode in DX, I think for the lesser computer literate people it is too hard to grasp. Unless of course a guide for dummys is available.

One other thing that would give DX a huge boost would be matching windowblinds skins for DX themes. It is rare that a good match can be found.
Reply #27 Monday, November 21, 2005 1:12 PM
Reply #28 Monday, November 21, 2005 1:18 PM
| I do VC++ development with a DX desktop loaded all of the time now, and I wouldn't want to do without it. |
I wouldnt mind seeing your desktop to get an idea. I do VC++(among other languages) and I havent found a DX desktop arrangement I could use.

Reply #29 Monday, November 21, 2005 1:24 PM
| One other thing that would give DX a huge boost would be matching windowblinds skins for DX themes. It is rare that a good match can be found. |
I always wondered why DX Themes weren't skin-able. If aWidowblinds skin is made up of graphic componants, why can't a DXTheme call those same images?
Another question I have asked in the past is why each object/widget/gadget/thing-a-ma-bob needs to be configured seperatly? If I set my zip code on widget Alice, why, when I download Widget Bob, do I have to reenter my zip? Let me set my defaults in the registry and encourage developers to use it.
Reply #30 Monday, November 21, 2005 1:36 PM
Reply #31 Monday, November 21, 2005 2:08 PM
| There are many themes with matching WB. |
I understand that there can be themes with matching WBs. What I am asking for is if I change my WB . . . DesktopX gets it applied (where applicable).
As far as the zipcode reenter issue, I can't test what you say because while I can access weather.com, the Silica Weather widget and irregular Widget can't access and all I see is Livonia, MI or Vegas but it appears you are correct, my zip was consistant when I clicked on the city in the two widgets.
Reply #32 Monday, November 21, 2005 2:19 PM
| ...be competing with us on products that generate alot of revenue. |
I think this is the main concern I have with this. Basicly Stardock is using it power to keep it's edge in the Desktop Theme market. Instead of making it fair for the rest of us.
| But isn't that kind of like Microsoft saying that they don't want to sell a development environment for $400 or $500 and have someone make a browser or word processor that competes with them? If you're selling a software development tool, you're basically selling to a market that's got a history, and the history seems to say that these kinds of tools just aren't that expensive, compared to what they can create. The example of Maya is in a different market, with a different history and different price points, as far as I know. I agree with Stupendous Man, in that it seems like the ambiguous nature of DesktopX is for you to clarify, Brad. I still think it's a great product and I enjoy using it. I do VC++ development with a DX desktop loaded all of the time now, and I wouldn't want to do without it. |
I agree with this whole statement, I love DesktopX and love the features of PRO, but when I hear the owner and head of Stardock say... "But DesktopX can (and is mostly used) to build desktops (hence the name -- DesktopX)." and he says that the only reason that we can't create stand-alone desktops ourselves, with the Professional Edition, is because we "might" compete with their company. Isn't that the main idea of the American Economy? Let the best win, not let's control the market since we can and close everone else out.
I would really like to know why DesktopX Pro use to be over $200 and then in version 3.0, Stardock dropped the price. Was this at first way to high for this type of developer tool and the market decided it and Stardock dropped the price to sell the tool? Just think what they could make up in volume with a tool that could create stand-alone desktops.
Basicly...
| If you're selling a software development tool, you're basically selling to a market that's got a history, and the history seems to say that these kinds of tools just aren't that expensive, compared to what they can create. |
Adobe's Photoshop and Maya & other tools in thye graphic's area are a different type of app for a different purpose. And as for Visual Studio, this is basicly a bundle of Developer's tools, it isn't fair to compare Visual Studio to one application like DesktopX. It would be like comparing Konfabulator (a customization app), to ObjectDesktop, since ObjectDesktop is a bundle of customization applications.
(BTW, you really can't compare Visual Studio with ObjectDesktop, since ObjectDesktop is a customization suite bundle and Visual Studio is a developer's suite.)

Reply #33 Monday, November 21, 2005 2:30 PM
I think there is an other example of a company watering down a product to help it not to compete with it's other markets. Apple is the other big company that has done this. Look at the Macintosh LC, it was watered down to help keep with from competeing with the Apple II markets and also, the Apple Newton. There have been many records pointing to the Apple Newton Group that showed that Apple was afraid that the Newton's original tablet computer "Senior" was going to affect their macintosh sales. One rumor is that, that is why Apple shelved the Newton "Senior" product in the beginning, that and the fact the Apple was having cost issues maintaining both the "Senior" and "Junior" R&D.
Other companies have done this also, the fact that Stardock is doing this is hard to understand since this company always seems to be for the developer type customers.
They are afraid that they will lose sales in the areas of their Premium content, since it means more people can create items that are better than theirs. If they aren't then why not allow people to create stand-alone desktops with the Professional version, since this is a feature that professional users would like.
Reply #34 Monday, November 21, 2005 3:34 PM
| But isn't that kind of like Microsoft saying that they don't want to sell a development environment for $400 or $500 and have someone make a browser or word processor that competes with them? If you're selling a software development tool, you're basically selling to a market that's got a history, and the history seems to say that these kinds of tools just aren't that expensive, compared to what they can create. The example of Maya is in a different market, with a different history and different price points, as far as I know. I agree with Stupendous Man, in that it seems like the ambiguous nature of DesktopX is for you to clarify, Brad. I still think it's a great product and I enjoy using it. I do VC++ development with a DX desktop loaded all of the time now, and I wouldn't want to do without it. |
No because it requires immense effort still. Visual Studio can't turn out a Word processor in a couple of weeks. DesktopX Pro can build some very specific types of unique content without alot of effort.
Let's use Natural Desktop as an example -- with DesktopX Enterprise, we built that in a few weeks with just a couple people. With Visual Studio, it would have taken many many many months to do it.
For building desktops, DesktopX is very specialized at the types of content it can create just as programs like Maya are specialized to create 3D models. There were a lot of people at Stardock who didn't want DesktopX Pro or Enteprise to exist at all (particularly Enterprise).
If Konfabulator has shown anything to be true it is that the CONTENT matters more than the technology of the thing that uses the content. DesktopX can create, relatively easily, a very specific type of unique content that people want. So the question is which direction is best? Turn DesktopX into a quasi-internal-only tool to create other stuff to sell that is stand-alone? Or to make it available to other developers who might compete with content Stardock might want to sell? There's no easy answer.
Let me give you a totally unrelated example: The Political Machine. Stardock developed a Direct3D backend for DesktopX to take its .dxpacks and run them in a 3D environment. As a result, Stardock was able to crank out the user interfaces and screens for The Political Machine in a very short amount of time. This allowed Stardock to cut development time on the game in half. This led to the question -- should Stardock try to encourage/sell DesktopX Enterprise to other game developers to help them (And generate additional revenue) or should DesktopX Enterprise be used as a competitive advantage for Stardock's own internal game design teams? Like most things, the answer ended up somewhere in between -- we decided that we would tell people how we wer able to create all these game screens so fast but we wouldn't encourage people too much to use DesktopX for game making unless they came to us and negotiated licensing.
The Desktop Pet is a good example and you'll see why when it comes out. That was created with DesktopX Pro (not Enterprise). The Desktop Pet will probably sell 5,000 to 10,000 copies on-line and if we get it into retail another 20,000 to 30,000 units. You couldn't create a desktop pet with say Konfabulator or any of the other "widget" programs because they're currently too limited. But DesktopX Pro, out of the box, can do it. One developer and one 3D modeler in a couple months. And there's nothing out ther that is anywhere near as sophisticated. But there's nothing stopping someone else from doing the same thing as we're doing. All some larger company would have to do is pick up a copy of DesktopX Pro for $69.95 and create "Virtual Rover" or something and have a hit leaving our pet in the dust. So again, there is always some conflict over how DesktopX should be marketed. Some might say "Why does Stardock even let DesktopX be available at all to the public?"
So far, because people make trinkets like clocks or try to copy what's been done on Konfabulator, the issue with what DesktopX should and shouldn't do has never come to a head. A few months back someone made an Aero web browser using DesktopX that was fully compatible with Internet Explorer (it uses its ActiveX control). I know that raised some eye brows around here.
Some people forget that DesktopX was developed during a different time in the skinning community. The target market for it was skinners (same as WindowBlinds). It was expected that the community would jump in and figure out all the neat things that can be done with it. But that didn't happen. And so 4 years later, Konfabulator shows up on the Mac and then eventually on Windows. And unlike DesktopX, its developer included abunch of really cool content it made itself. It wasn't made with skinners in mind, making a Konfabulator widget (especially when it was first released) was huge pain. They focused purely on the consumers -- the users. Imagine how different DesktopX's history might have been in 75% of the budget wasn't spend on the content creation elements -- the GUI for creating, manipulating, and exporting objects and desktops? 6 months alone were spent figuring out how to make ActiveX controls move seamlessly with other DekstopX objects. Nothing else can do that. But how many things use ActiveX controls? Hardly any. It's incredibly powerful stuff but instead people debate which is "better" based on how pretty the little PNG files that display clocks and weather monitors and other trivialities.
In other words, Stardock developed DesktopX under the misconception that the key to success was getting "Skinners" on board. But that has changed in the past few years. What we've seen both in our own experience is that consumers are driving success. Consumers will choose what they find easiest/best to use and THEN the skinners will follow what the consumers are already doing. It doesn't matter that Konfabulator and the rest have no real development environment for the skinner. The skinner will sit down in some editor and peck out their XML and their JavaScript and deal with all the other hassles because that's where all the user are.
The problem is that DesktopX is still saddled with all this development environment stuff which adds a great deal of complexity and overhead to the actual environment (unless you use just the DesktopX run-time which we did in 3.0). If there's a DesktopX 4, I think you'll find it a very very different animal. It'll not care about the content creation, it'll use XAML what content creation help it provides will mostly be about making it easier to do simple things (widgets for instance) but fancier things would be done using Sparkle and what not. But it's hard to say this early on.
Reply #35 Monday, November 21, 2005 4:04 PM
I guess I'll have to look into XAML and Sparkle now.

Reply #36 Monday, November 21, 2005 4:13 PM
Thanks to the reply. I am sorry if I sounded to hard, but it still sounds a little unfair for the rest of us developers trying to get the most out of Desktop for products. Also, I am a little afraid to develop serious apps using DesktopX since Stardock could come back and then require me to pay more if the apps is sucessful and I need an upgrade.
The fact that it takes less time to create something, then compared to say Visual C++ shouldn't be a reason for people not to use it (ie. b/c the higher price), but the reason people should want to use it over Visual C++ and thus make more money for Stardock, not less. One word, Volume.

Reply #37 Monday, November 21, 2005 5:46 PM
| The fact that it takes less time to create something, then compared to say Visual C++ shouldn't be a reason for people not to use it (ie. b/c the higher price), but the reason people should want to use it over Visual C++ and thus make more money for Stardock, not less. One word, Volume. |
Volume doesn't work in many many cases. That is the reason why products like 3D Studio and Maya cost so much.
Reply #38 Monday, November 21, 2005 9:35 PM
| DesktopX widgets run without Explorer just fine. |
Must be some bazzire thing happening to my Windows last time I tried it then. Now I try the new version and everything worked.
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Reply #21 Monday, November 21, 2005 10:47 AM
I still don't understand why the cost of the product has anything to do with the amount of money someone can make using it. Another example, you can get a licensed copy of Visual C++ from Microsoft for under $100 and create a program like DesktopX. I am not saying it would be easy, but you could do it. (This might be a better example, since C++ is more robust than Visual Basic, or basic for that matter.) And then make a lot more $100 in sales with the item(s) created with that Microsoft product. Microsoft doesn't seem to care. They are a provider of the developer tool, same as Stardock is for DesktopX. Microsoft doesn't care if a developer makes more than they did for the product, since they achieved their goal. To sell their product. (Visual C++)
Also, how many others could get over $50K for Aquarium Desktop if they created it. It might be possible, but the main reason that Stardock could is because they are Stardock. They are like Microsoft in the Object Desktop customization world like Microsoft is in the Windows world. Their is no competing with Stardock for the most part in the world of DesktopX and Windowblinds, etc.