WinCustomize Subscription Totals Won't Make The Goal: What Next?
With the WinCustomize Subscription Not Even At The Half Way Poin... What Now?
Tuesday, October 25, 2005 by joetheblow | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
We have talked about this extensively on other threads, but now with the moment of truth upon us the question is what will happen to WinCustomize?
If this site was owned by a person and that crash with the server happened, it would have been a lost.
In fact, the idea that this happened only shows how much work is going on behind the scenes of this site that has to be costly and probably more than Frogboy will admit.
After reading the Does Stardock 'need' WinCustomize? thread as well as other threads on the message board/forums, the question is now what is next.
I think the answer will be more extreme that what we been talking about. Will it be a totally subscriber only site period (this would avoid the multiple account thing because even if you do that you will only get so much and view so much)?
What happens to the Wincustomize User Pages? How will un-subscribers be able to view it or download from it?
Will there be whole sections of WinCustomize off limits to outsiders?
I think the immediate response will be no downloads unless your signed in (unless its wallpapers, CursorXP or something) Not sure about the rest. I am guessing with the need for new restrictions that there will be a total site redesign for subscribers.
Personally, I think it is a sad day for all of this come November 1st 2005. The other sites just don't compare. I visited one site of the alternates to WinCusto and my browser crashed because of the pop-up attempts. Can you believe that?
I don't think many people will like the subscriber idea and will think Stardock is leaching off of artists. People will leave probably from what I read of some of the comments. I find that funny since most of the comments of 'leeching of artists' came from people who started off here and got there notoriety due to the 'leeching' of hosting their stuff, keeping it save, and organizing a community around it.
I always said that WinCustomize is a symbiosis between the artist and Stardock. On can not live as well without the other.
But with the restrictions soon to come on its way, what will happen to WinCustomize? What is next?
If this site was owned by a person and that crash with the server happened, it would have been a lost.
In fact, the idea that this happened only shows how much work is going on behind the scenes of this site that has to be costly and probably more than Frogboy will admit.
After reading the Does Stardock 'need' WinCustomize? thread as well as other threads on the message board/forums, the question is now what is next.
I think the answer will be more extreme that what we been talking about. Will it be a totally subscriber only site period (this would avoid the multiple account thing because even if you do that you will only get so much and view so much)?
What happens to the Wincustomize User Pages? How will un-subscribers be able to view it or download from it?
Will there be whole sections of WinCustomize off limits to outsiders?
I think the immediate response will be no downloads unless your signed in (unless its wallpapers, CursorXP or something) Not sure about the rest. I am guessing with the need for new restrictions that there will be a total site redesign for subscribers.
Personally, I think it is a sad day for all of this come November 1st 2005. The other sites just don't compare. I visited one site of the alternates to WinCusto and my browser crashed because of the pop-up attempts. Can you believe that?
I don't think many people will like the subscriber idea and will think Stardock is leaching off of artists. People will leave probably from what I read of some of the comments. I find that funny since most of the comments of 'leeching of artists' came from people who started off here and got there notoriety due to the 'leeching' of hosting their stuff, keeping it save, and organizing a community around it.
I always said that WinCustomize is a symbiosis between the artist and Stardock. On can not live as well without the other.
But with the restrictions soon to come on its way, what will happen to WinCustomize? What is next?
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Bichur
Reply #22 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:17 AM
if you can get me a DL speed of 1 MB in 1 minute, I'm yours
Reply #22 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:17 AM
| let them DL 1MB in 1minute |
if you can get me a DL speed of 1 MB in 1 minute, I'm yours
Chasbo
Reply #23 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:42 AM
Reply #23 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:42 AM
Whatever it takes. If Brad cannot make a go of it without the subscriptions then he needs to make this a subscriber site. Simple. It's his business and he can do what he wants with it. Those of us who do not subscribe but have purchased Stardock software will feel ripped off. Does purchasing Stardock software help pay for the site? If it does than I'd say we would be ripped off. 
SKoriginals
Reply #24 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:44 AM
Reply #24 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:44 AM
Well, I was alot like Reppiks in how things worked out for me.
I'm sure the biggest problem WC has is browsing, uploading and downloading. Maybe there should be restrictions on the uploading and downloading. Already non members can only see skins rated 3.5+ stars. I think there should be tougher upload approval restrictions. Which would cause a better database of skins and less of them. And tougher approvals would help across the board making WC "THE" place to put your skin (even more so than it is now) with less skins meaning less browsing and less downloads. Maybe also get rid of alot of the very low rated and outdated skins.
Maybe susbscribers only should have access to skins rated 4.5+ stars for download. But that would boil down to the fact that there are alot of other places to get the same skins for free. Leaving it up to the artist themselves on what they do, meaning they would have to restrict themselves. This sorta leads me to another point. The skin artist do as much for this site as Stardock themselves. Without great artist out there creating skins then what would really be the purpose. Maybe if WC gave some sort of benifit to the really good artist (determined by either Dl's or ratings or votes or whatever). Otherwise what reason would the artist have in doing such a thing? I think if WC did do some things to benifit the artist themselves then maybe the artist would in turn be more willing to create WC exclusive skins.
These are all just rambling ideas I have had, nothing more.
I'm sure the biggest problem WC has is browsing, uploading and downloading. Maybe there should be restrictions on the uploading and downloading. Already non members can only see skins rated 3.5+ stars. I think there should be tougher upload approval restrictions. Which would cause a better database of skins and less of them. And tougher approvals would help across the board making WC "THE" place to put your skin (even more so than it is now) with less skins meaning less browsing and less downloads. Maybe also get rid of alot of the very low rated and outdated skins.
Maybe susbscribers only should have access to skins rated 4.5+ stars for download. But that would boil down to the fact that there are alot of other places to get the same skins for free. Leaving it up to the artist themselves on what they do, meaning they would have to restrict themselves. This sorta leads me to another point. The skin artist do as much for this site as Stardock themselves. Without great artist out there creating skins then what would really be the purpose. Maybe if WC gave some sort of benifit to the really good artist (determined by either Dl's or ratings or votes or whatever). Otherwise what reason would the artist have in doing such a thing? I think if WC did do some things to benifit the artist themselves then maybe the artist would in turn be more willing to create WC exclusive skins.
These are all just rambling ideas I have had, nothing more.
Bichur
Reply #25 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:45 AM
I'm guessing it's where part of the budget comes from.
Reply #25 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:45 AM
| Does purchasing Stardock software help pay for the site? |
I'm guessing it's where part of the budget comes from.
seldomseen
Reply #26 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:47 AM
Well said, Apprentice f0r3. I, too, visit on a daily basis, and dl a large amount from not only WC but other sites as well.I hope to see WC alive and well far into the future, and try to keep my membership accts paid up, also. I wonder if we could have a "Donate-O-Meter" as some sites have,say on only the Home page, showing maybe "This Month's Goal", "Amount So Far", "Amt Needed". I know, for me, such a widget on a site I want to support often motivates me to chip in a couple of bucks now and then... .
Reply #26 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:47 AM
| I do hope this can be handled well because I love coming to this site and I can't imagine a future without WC as a part of my daily routine. |
Well said, Apprentice f0r3. I, too, visit on a daily basis, and dl a large amount from not only WC but other sites as well.I hope to see WC alive and well far into the future, and try to keep my membership accts paid up, also. I wonder if we could have a "Donate-O-Meter" as some sites have,say on only the Home page, showing maybe "This Month's Goal", "Amount So Far", "Amt Needed". I know, for me, such a widget on a site I want to support often motivates me to chip in a couple of bucks now and then... .
Chef Garry
Reply #27 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 12:14 PM
Reply #27 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 12:14 PM
I've subscribed to WC since it's beginning and will continue to do so. Mine doesn't run out for another 7 months at which time I'll renew for sure. Kudo's to Markdotnet for renewing early but IMHO the situation re non-subscribers needs to be resolved. Buying an extra might be good for Stardock (and Brad) in the short run but doesn't resolve the issue.
Like most people here, I think that non-subcribers should be given a preview of everything without being able to download more than a minimal amount - if at all. Sure some people will be ticked. Heck we still get complaining when these people hit the 50 mg limit. So they go away? So what? It's not like they've contributed anything but escalated costs.
Sure skins can be downloaded from elsewhere. Don't want to pay, then by all means go elsewhere. Isn't that what free marked economy is all about? The reason I'm here (and I think most of us are the same) is simply because this site has the best available stuff with the least effort to find it. And the community, can't forget the community.
Likewise with the forum - no subscription means you can read but not post. Everyone gets to make their own decisions regarding how they spend their time and money. If paying for WC subscription doesn't suit - so be it.
Those with a OD subcription might have a middle ground with some downloading - a limit of some sort. After all, when you bought WB etc. you bought the program with a number of skins included. Did you really buy unlimited access to more skins or did you buy a program?
It's time to take a hard line. Stardock raises this issue every 6 or 8 months. If it's not just a marketing ploy (sell more subscriptions) then bite the bullet and make the hard decision.
(what jerk wrote all that?
)
Like most people here, I think that non-subcribers should be given a preview of everything without being able to download more than a minimal amount - if at all. Sure some people will be ticked. Heck we still get complaining when these people hit the 50 mg limit. So they go away? So what? It's not like they've contributed anything but escalated costs.
Sure skins can be downloaded from elsewhere. Don't want to pay, then by all means go elsewhere. Isn't that what free marked economy is all about? The reason I'm here (and I think most of us are the same) is simply because this site has the best available stuff with the least effort to find it. And the community, can't forget the community.
Likewise with the forum - no subscription means you can read but not post. Everyone gets to make their own decisions regarding how they spend their time and money. If paying for WC subscription doesn't suit - so be it.
Those with a OD subcription might have a middle ground with some downloading - a limit of some sort. After all, when you bought WB etc. you bought the program with a number of skins included. Did you really buy unlimited access to more skins or did you buy a program?
It's time to take a hard line. Stardock raises this issue every 6 or 8 months. If it's not just a marketing ploy (sell more subscriptions) then bite the bullet and make the hard decision.
(what jerk wrote all that?
)
ethsza
Reply #28 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 1:05 PM
The skins are free (like in free speech, not in free beer
) work of the respective authors. If they upload it for free, I download them for free. Whether on WC or other places. If there won't be free sites, I won't download them. This is what I thought when bought OD.
Reply #28 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 1:05 PM
| After all, when you bought WB etc. you bought the program with a number of skins included. Did you really buy unlimited access to more skins or did you buy a program? |
The skins are free (like in free speech, not in free beer
) work of the respective authors. If they upload it for free, I download them for free. Whether on WC or other places. If there won't be free sites, I won't download them. This is what I thought when bought OD.
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #29 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 1:17 PM
Reply #29 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 1:17 PM
| The skins are free (like in free speech, not in free beer ) work of the respective authors. If they upload it for free, I download them for free. Whether on WC or other places. If there won't be free sites, I won't download them. This is what I thought when bought OD. |
'Free' as you call it, involves someone spending thousands per week paying for bandwidth and servers, maintenance etc. It's freeloaders like you this site needs to get rid of. You really piss me off
After reading that, it's clear now is the time to cut off all non-subscriber downloads. Let people get their freebies elsewhere and keep this site for people who appreciate it.
NightTrainthedark
Reply #30 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 1:54 PM
Reply #30 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 1:54 PM
One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is that fact that if freeloaders are completely blocked out, the site traffic will decrease immensly. Therefore reducing costs to run the site. It will be interesting to see. Maybe the site will be closer to self sufficient. Doubtful, but it will be interesting.
I still think that the most important elements in any of this are the Skinners. They need to upload Wincustomize only, premium skins help, but what does that do for resubscribers? Currently, as is, resubscribing doesn't have any benefits. It is mostly a donation to the site. Sure you get your wincustomize site but I don't think that matters to many.
Done for now.
I still think that the most important elements in any of this are the Skinners. They need to upload Wincustomize only, premium skins help, but what does that do for resubscribers? Currently, as is, resubscribing doesn't have any benefits. It is mostly a donation to the site. Sure you get your wincustomize site but I don't think that matters to many.
Done for now.
Winmodify
Reply #31 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 2:35 PM
Are you on dial-up? What's your avarage in downloading 1MB?
Reply #31 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 2:35 PM
| if you can get me a DL speed of 1 MB in 1 minute, I'm yours |
Are you on dial-up? What's your avarage in downloading 1MB?
Bichur
Reply #32 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 2:43 PM
can't tell my sundial broke.
yes I'm on dialup...my download speed varies but usually it's between 2-4 kb
took 33 hrs +/- to dl SP2
Reply #32 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 2:43 PM
| What's your avarage in downloading 1MB? |
can't tell my sundial broke.
yes I'm on dialup...my download speed varies but usually it's between 2-4 kb
took 33 hrs +/- to dl SP2
aufisch
Reply #33 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 2:52 PM
Reply #33 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 2:52 PM
I worry about one thing: if all freeload traffic is cut and the site becomes largely a 'subscriber only' affair, would that mean that it would become less attractive to the average skinner? Am I correct to assume, that part of the attraction of this site to the great skinners here is that they are able to reach a lot of people and optain high download rates?
I think we need to find a middle way here.
First, I don't think that OD-subscribers should get limited downloads on this site. Brad mentioned somewhere that since Stardock knows exactly how many Customers they have, they know that only a fraction of the daily traffic is actually caused by Stardock customers and subscribers. Its the Shareware/Warez users that are the real problem. Also, I can kind of foresee that people would get pissed off if they are made to subscribe immediately after they press a "get more skins" button in their newly purchased software.
Second: I totally agree with limiting non customers or subscribers. Why should a warez user be able to post a help thread on the support forum? (of course that would require a "no support" stance for shareware versions).
Third: How about a combined subscription/OD-renewal option? That could be ten bucks more ($44 instead of $34) than the current OD subscription and would include unlimited access to WC for another year. The old OD renewal could still be available, but with a warning that downloading would be limited to 100MB (or maybe less) per renewal.
I think we need to find a middle way here.
First, I don't think that OD-subscribers should get limited downloads on this site. Brad mentioned somewhere that since Stardock knows exactly how many Customers they have, they know that only a fraction of the daily traffic is actually caused by Stardock customers and subscribers. Its the Shareware/Warez users that are the real problem. Also, I can kind of foresee that people would get pissed off if they are made to subscribe immediately after they press a "get more skins" button in their newly purchased software.
Second: I totally agree with limiting non customers or subscribers. Why should a warez user be able to post a help thread on the support forum? (of course that would require a "no support" stance for shareware versions).
Third: How about a combined subscription/OD-renewal option? That could be ten bucks more ($44 instead of $34) than the current OD subscription and would include unlimited access to WC for another year. The old OD renewal could still be available, but with a warning that downloading would be limited to 100MB (or maybe less) per renewal.
TYCUS
Reply #34 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 2:53 PM
Reply #34 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 2:53 PM
33hrs!!!!!!
-=TYCUS=-
(So, do you want some candy for this Halloween...?)
-=TYCUS=-
(So, do you want some candy for this Halloween...?)
ethsza
Reply #35 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 3:12 PM
I can't leave this unanswered. All I'm asking you is to read at least this comment.
To start with:
According to todays official policies I'm rather an appreciated community member, a level 4 user, than a freeloader.
(Level 4: Current Stardock customer. These are users who have either purchased Object Desktop Network or some other Stardock product (Stardock is WinCustomize's sponser) within the last 2 years. These users get all the benefits of a registered user plus:
* Unlimited File Downloads. Say good-bye to file limitations! No more annoying messages preventing you from getting your download to work.) Kind words. No bad languange.
Then:
In my comments I'm writing arguments why I think mandatory subscription is a wrong solution. Admitting that operating such a site must cost a fortune.
In return I get answers like: You're sucking the blood of the community, get lost.
Furthermore:
I write, that I'm paying for the applications, and I'm stating that authors upload their work for free. (By means that THEY won't get paid.)
In return I get answers like: Why do you think bandwidth and servers are free? You don't appreciate us.
Then:
I write that if I MUST subscribe for 20USD to download skins, I guess I rather consider stopping paying 50USD to renew my OD subscription, and I ask whether this is not a bigger threat by introducing such a new policy.
In return I get answers like: we will have to shut down the site because of you, shame on you.
And of course there are the always shiny happy people like: it's nice to join a community, I subscribe every 3 months. Which is their business.
To be serious, I myself feel fed up wit the "go away you parasite, you won't get anything for free" comments, without getting a single comment on my arguments. I don't even know what am I doing here, this is not funny at all.
I beg for a relevant comment on my arguments from "the other side".
Finally forgive my poor english, I'd check back for answers before leaving wincustomize.
BRGDS
ethsza
Reply #35 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 3:12 PM
| It's freeloaders like you |
I can't leave this unanswered.
All I'm asking you is to read at least this comment. To start with:
According to todays official policies I'm rather an appreciated community member, a level 4 user, than a freeloader.
(Level 4: Current Stardock customer. These are users who have either purchased Object Desktop Network or some other Stardock product (Stardock is WinCustomize's sponser) within the last 2 years. These users get all the benefits of a registered user plus:
* Unlimited File Downloads. Say good-bye to file limitations! No more annoying messages preventing you from getting your download to work.) Kind words. No bad languange.
Then:
In my comments I'm writing arguments why I think mandatory subscription is a wrong solution. Admitting that operating such a site must cost a fortune.
In return I get answers like: You're sucking the blood of the community, get lost.
Furthermore:
I write, that I'm paying for the applications, and I'm stating that authors upload their work for free. (By means that THEY won't get paid.)
In return I get answers like: Why do you think bandwidth and servers are free? You don't appreciate us.
Then:
I write that if I MUST subscribe for 20USD to download skins, I guess I rather consider stopping paying 50USD to renew my OD subscription, and I ask whether this is not a bigger threat by introducing such a new policy.
In return I get answers like: we will have to shut down the site because of you, shame on you.
And of course there are the always shiny happy people like: it's nice to join a community, I subscribe every 3 months. Which is their business.
To be serious, I myself feel fed up wit the "go away you parasite, you won't get anything for free" comments, without getting a single comment on my arguments.
I don't even know what am I doing here, this is not funny at all. I beg for a relevant comment on my arguments from "the other side".
Finally forgive my poor english, I'd check back for answers before leaving wincustomize.
BRGDS
ethsza
gef
Reply #36 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 3:35 PM
Reply #36 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 3:35 PM
| I think that non-subcribers should be given a preview of everything without being able to download more than a minimal amount - if at all. |
I agree.
TYCUS
Reply #37 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 3:45 PM
God!!! ...who tell you that?!?!?
He/she has to think before oppenning his/her mouth!!!!
-=TYCUS=-
(So, do you want some candy...?)
Reply #37 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 3:45 PM
| we will have to shut down the site because of you, shame on you. |
God!!! ...who tell you that?!?!?
He/she has to think before oppenning his/her mouth!!!!
-=TYCUS=-
(So, do you want some candy...?)
Winmodify
Reply #38 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 4:21 PM
lol.. why don't you upgrade to a faster internet?? I would go crazy if things took so long..
Reply #38 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 4:21 PM
| took 33 hrs |
lol.. why don't you upgrade to a faster internet?? I would go crazy if things took so long..
Cyberworld
Reply #39 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 4:26 PM
Hey spanking is ex officio assigned to Fuzzy Logic...find another hobby. Just kidding Tycus...oh and Happy Birthday...
Reply #39 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 4:26 PM
| So, do you want some candy...? |
Hey spanking is ex officio assigned to Fuzzy Logic...find another hobby.
Just kidding Tycus...oh and Happy Birthday...
starkers
Reply #40 Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:23 PM
Sorry, but I do not agree with this line of thinking. Many subscribers are also budding or newbie skinners, and to introduce a stricter moderation policy would not only alienate these people from the site, but also discourage them from practicing their craft and contibuting more to the site as a whole. The great skinners weren't just born that way, they had to begin somewhere, and there's no better place than WC to gain the exposure, support and encouragement that can inspire and possibly lead to eventual greatness. Obviously, there has to be some form of moderation to ensure posted skins are of a workable and acceptable level, but when one mans trash is another mans treasure, it shouldn't be that a select few can decide for the majority what's pleasing or otherwise.
The problem for Stardock and Wincustomize is not so much the large skin libraries or the skinners who upload their works, but rather the non-contributing freeloaders who advocate forever freeware/pirateware and take everything for free. Those people are the true drain on resources, and for most of us, the new restrictions can't come soon enough because they'll simply piss off and go bludge elsewhere, rather than be fair minded and subscribe.
Reply #40 Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:23 PM
| I think there should be tougher upload approval restrictions. Which would cause a better database of skins and less of them. And tougher approvals would help across the board making WC "THE" place to put your skin (even more so than it is now) with less skins meaning less browsing and less downloads |
Sorry, but I do not agree with this line of thinking. Many subscribers are also budding or newbie skinners, and to introduce a stricter moderation policy would not only alienate these people from the site, but also discourage them from practicing their craft and contibuting more to the site as a whole. The great skinners weren't just born that way, they had to begin somewhere, and there's no better place than WC to gain the exposure, support and encouragement that can inspire and possibly lead to eventual greatness. Obviously, there has to be some form of moderation to ensure posted skins are of a workable and acceptable level, but when one mans trash is another mans treasure, it shouldn't be that a select few can decide for the majority what's pleasing or otherwise.
The problem for Stardock and Wincustomize is not so much the large skin libraries or the skinners who upload their works, but rather the non-contributing freeloaders who advocate forever freeware/pirateware and take everything for free. Those people are the true drain on resources, and for most of us, the new restrictions can't come soon enough because they'll simply piss off and go bludge elsewhere, rather than be fair minded and subscribe.
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Reply #21 Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:08 AM
I don't think any of this has to do with your current usage patterns on WC. The changes aren't caused by someone like yourself who is a customer of Stardock, and downloads very limited content from WC. The problems are caused by the people who you see posting sometimes who have either illegal copies of Stardock apps or they are using the Shareware versions and download every wallpaper, WB skin, IP theme and DX object that is released. I hope that WC remains free to use to people like yourself who aren't trying to take advantage of the situation but there has to be something put in place for the people who believe that everything in the world is free.
I do agree that there aren't a lot of compelling reasons to subscribe to WC but I do it because I download A LOT, I mean I've downloaded gigs of stuff from this site, and because of that and because for me the subscription is a good deal even without extra perks I do subscribe.
I personally like the idea of only giving non-subscribers and non-customers a very limited view of the site, show them the thumbnails of the subscriber content but only allow them to download certain items. Also, add pages with nothing but an add on them between when they click on download and when the download actually starts, make them look at that add for 10 seconds, if they have an Ad-blocker that's fine but make them stare at a blank page for 10 seconds, or have a text version of the ad on the page also. I mean, make it painful to get the content. I really only think that this should apply to people who are truly feeloading from the site, if the person has purchased an SD product but not a WC subscription they should not get the same treatment. It seems like there's this push to alienate even SD customers. No offense, but someone who paid $50 for OD should not have the same hassle as someone who feels Shareware is the *free version* of a program. I'd also suggest time bombing the shareware versions. It's obviously too easy to use the shareware version indefinitely because there are lots of people who admit to doing it on these message boards. It's pretty clear people don't get that Shareware means "limited time use", and if they don't get that they won't buy your product no matter how much they like it.
Well, I've rambled enough now but I do hope this can be handled well because I love coming to this site and I can't imagine a future without WC as a part of my daily routine.