Subscription Drive: Status report
We're not going to make it..
Thursday, October 13, 2005 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize News
If you click HERE you can see WinCustomize's traffic details. Most sites keep this kind of thing secret but we tend to operate as transparently as possible.
The key figures are: 788,000 visits per day average. 5.5 MILLION visitors this past week.
13 days into the WinCustomize subscription drive, we have a total of 345 people who have re-subscribed or subscribed new. Quite a few of them are individuals who re-subscribed long before they needed to or bought a subscription for someone else. That means a very small number of people are doing a lot of the heavy lifting for the site. 345 subscriptions means $6,900 in revenue (thank you to those who have subsribed).
As you can imagine, running a site that gets 5.5 million visitors every week is very expensive. Especially when it's on a download site. For instance, Kol's VistaXP skin has been downloaded about 2,000 times today. It's a 2MB file. That means 4,000 megabytes (4 Gigabytes) of bandwidth were used just for that one skin. So as you can imagine, the bandwidth costs of this site are immense. Moreover, as skinning gets more popular and more users interact, we need full-time people to code and manage the site. Thank goodness we have volunteers who actually run the site and a day to day basis or else there'd be no WinCustomize.
Which brings us back to the start of this news item. WinCustomize costs probably around $300,000 a year to run. That's bandwidth + salaries. Anyone in the Internet business will tell you wer're running the site on a shoe-string. A site in the top 3000 or so most popular in the world would typically cost far more. deviantART, for instance, has around two-dozen employees working just on that site.
So what happens to WinCustomize when October 31 comes and we're not even close to our goal? Well, for skinners, subscribers, and SD Customers the answer is, not much. Skinners and subscribers are going to get new stuff -- we have a Halloween skin in the works for instance and there will be subscriber-only content made in the future.
For regular users it's going to be a different story. Users are going to have to start creating accounts to access skins made that month. We'll also have to put in some code to make it more difficult for someone to simply create a duplicate account. This will likely drive away some users -- which will be part of the goal.
In the midterm, the site will begin focusing more and more on the community with the community defined as people who care about WinCustomize. That would be the skinners, the subscribers, and SD customers. People not in that category will still be able to do many things on the site, but it will be much more restrictive.
 |
|
Page 4 of 9 | |
|
|---|
Javakhanzz
Reply #62 Friday, October 14, 2005 11:23 AM
Reply #62 Friday, October 14, 2005 11:23 AM
I was wandering whether offering different subscription types might help? You know you could keep the "top band" package at $20 and maybe a lower package that would include unlimited downloads and premium skins but not any webspace or upload privileges for maybe $14.99. Then maybe download only privileges for $5.99?
I know it needs more thought, but if i want just to come to wincustomize to download i can confident that i am still contributing to the site. Or if i want to be a "daddy" around these parts i can with a full subscription package.
I know it needs more thought, but if i want just to come to wincustomize to download i can confident that i am still contributing to the site. Or if i want to be a "daddy" around these parts i can with a full subscription package.
RiddickRom
Reply #63 Friday, October 14, 2005 11:30 AM
That's true and it's a really clever way to get people who want a lot of content to subscribe. The casual first timer is not pushed away, they can still find the content, there are clearly laid out heirarchies of categories. I think the no search option was a very smart move but then a lot of the function behind DA is extremly forward thinking. The community features are just dazzling and I've not even really got to know it very well yet being a new visitor there. A visitor that wants to download gigabytes worth of wallpapers, well they have a really hard slog on there hands finding so much reducing the bandwidth drain significantly I'd imagine. The user that just wants one or two things isn't inconvenienced too much. Obviously not or the site would be losing traffic rather than gaining it.
When you are willing to stop a visitor from using the major parts of your site and force a fee to continue, I don't see how limiting them from the start is really any different ethically.
A sterling idea but how you stop someone creating another free account, that's going to be a tough one.
That's exactly my point. It would be nice to see more done to bridge the gap between visitor and subscriber.
Reply #63 Friday, October 14, 2005 11:30 AM
| non-subscribers on deviantART can't even search. |
That's true and it's a really clever way to get people who want a lot of content to subscribe. The casual first timer is not pushed away, they can still find the content, there are clearly laid out heirarchies of categories. I think the no search option was a very smart move but then a lot of the function behind DA is extremly forward thinking. The community features are just dazzling and I've not even really got to know it very well yet being a new visitor there. A visitor that wants to download gigabytes worth of wallpapers, well they have a really hard slog on there hands finding so much reducing the bandwidth drain significantly I'd imagine. The user that just wants one or two things isn't inconvenienced too much. Obviously not or the site would be losing traffic rather than gaining it.
When you are willing to stop a visitor from using the major parts of your site and force a fee to continue, I don't see how limiting them from the start is really any different ethically.
| Instead, what we're looking at is creating a system in which the newest skins require an account (which is free). Then after 50 megabytes of downloading, they have to purchase something, become a skinner, or become a subscriber. Then put in place a system where we can better detect people who are creating duplicate accounts. |
A sterling idea but how you stop someone creating another free account, that's going to be a tough one.
| would still like them to be able to use and view the site to an extent because if we lock everyone that's not currently a member out we'll never see growth in the membership but if we continue to let them see what they are truly missing out on, and this means they need to actually be missing out on something worthwhile |
That's exactly my point. It would be nice to see more done to bridge the gap between visitor and subscriber.
Threi
Reply #64 Friday, October 14, 2005 12:04 PM
Reply #64 Friday, October 14, 2005 12:04 PM
i had a feeling that this issue would pop up on this site (i reallly didnt want to comment on this thread but...i guess il put my 1 1/2 cents in)
Hey if the site wants a subscription drive than thats fine and good, they need the funds to back up the site...but there are 2 problems with what ive read
1. Its not the non-suscribers fault nor are they the cause of the problem. The makers of the site should be blaming themselves for that, as it was their deciscion to make the site public with little restrictions
2. Im getting the feeling (ive got this feeling ALOT of times on this site...) that some people feel like the suscribers are "elite" or just plain "better" compared to the non-suscribers
I dont suscribe to this site, and i really dont have a problem if new restrictions are put on the non-suscribers (i think that is a great idea) but dont go placing the blame on the non-suscribers in general...mayb its me, but some people just dont wanna subscribe to every site they visit (i mean wincustomize isnt the only site on the net u noe...
)
Hey if the site wants a subscription drive than thats fine and good, they need the funds to back up the site...but there are 2 problems with what ive read
1. Its not the non-suscribers fault nor are they the cause of the problem. The makers of the site should be blaming themselves for that, as it was their deciscion to make the site public with little restrictions
2. Im getting the feeling (ive got this feeling ALOT of times on this site...) that some people feel like the suscribers are "elite" or just plain "better" compared to the non-suscribers
I dont suscribe to this site, and i really dont have a problem if new restrictions are put on the non-suscribers (i think that is a great idea) but dont go placing the blame on the non-suscribers in general...mayb its me, but some people just dont wanna subscribe to every site they visit (i mean wincustomize isnt the only site on the net u noe...
)
9Iron
Reply #65 Friday, October 14, 2005 12:40 PM
Reply #65 Friday, October 14, 2005 12:40 PM
DesignCaddy
Well excuse me for being ignorant as I have not seen the worth of Object Desktop since it doesn't include Object Dock. Still, that doesn't negate my point. Release WB5 and you will probably see a rather large increase in subscriptions. Simple fact. Plus, WB5 could be made available to the public if they wanted too...as it was suggested....People would knowingly be taking part of a beta program, so they would know what they were getting in to. Software companies do that all the time. Instead, it gets released...but to get it, they point to a suite that costs $49.95. I am not that gullible.
Let me get this straight, outside of buying WB5, do people have to subscribe to this site as well? That is charging on top of charging if that is the case and it is no wonder so many people have decided to not re-subscribe. I like this site, and have allot of content downloaded and stored on my HDD to make reinstallations very easy, and yes...I am going to subscribe...when WB5 comes out and I see that I like it better than 4.6. I sure hope the purchase of WB5 will cover a subscription to this site. If not, that is petty imho.
Cheers
| i really hope this is a minority opinion.. otherwise there are a lot of really ignorant people out there. ODNET people get all version upgrades including alphas and betas as part of their subscription. There is nothing new here with wb5. Second, its still in development. Can you imagine the tech support load if every random visitor got to download it? |
Well excuse me for being ignorant as I have not seen the worth of Object Desktop since it doesn't include Object Dock. Still, that doesn't negate my point. Release WB5 and you will probably see a rather large increase in subscriptions. Simple fact. Plus, WB5 could be made available to the public if they wanted too...as it was suggested....People would knowingly be taking part of a beta program, so they would know what they were getting in to. Software companies do that all the time. Instead, it gets released...but to get it, they point to a suite that costs $49.95. I am not that gullible.
Let me get this straight, outside of buying WB5, do people have to subscribe to this site as well? That is charging on top of charging if that is the case and it is no wonder so many people have decided to not re-subscribe. I like this site, and have allot of content downloaded and stored on my HDD to make reinstallations very easy, and yes...I am going to subscribe...when WB5 comes out and I see that I like it better than 4.6. I sure hope the purchase of WB5 will cover a subscription to this site. If not, that is petty imho.
Cheers
orb351
Reply #66 Friday, October 14, 2005 1:00 PM
Reply #66 Friday, October 14, 2005 1:00 PM
Add a WC subscription to the release of WB5 for $10.00 more. Put that in a checkout.
blackcat77
Reply #67 Friday, October 14, 2005 1:05 PM
Reply #67 Friday, October 14, 2005 1:05 PM
>> >>This subscription drive is not about catering to individual wants, but the Wincustomize community and the continuation of services, a concept that sadly seems to have been missed by a few.
>>This is exactly the kind of view that I believe holds the site back
That is exactly correct! I bought a subscription last night, but I had to think about it for a long, long time before I did. Finally I told myself that I'd certainly gotten $20 worth of good from WC over all the years I've been here for free. But I did NOT subscribe for "the community," but rather for the benefits that *I* receive. I still think that the subscription is overpriced, and that there should be levels of costs for levels of service. But it's still the arrogance which bothers me more than anything else. I realize that I'm not one of the clique, but when you really get down to it, the elite skinners cannot make this site survive -- it takes the support of people like me, and it is harmful to the cause to come across like you are doing us a favor just by being here. And driving away traffic obviously is not going to help in long-term success of the site.
>>This is exactly the kind of view that I believe holds the site back
That is exactly correct! I bought a subscription last night, but I had to think about it for a long, long time before I did. Finally I told myself that I'd certainly gotten $20 worth of good from WC over all the years I've been here for free. But I did NOT subscribe for "the community," but rather for the benefits that *I* receive. I still think that the subscription is overpriced, and that there should be levels of costs for levels of service. But it's still the arrogance which bothers me more than anything else. I realize that I'm not one of the clique, but when you really get down to it, the elite skinners cannot make this site survive -- it takes the support of people like me, and it is harmful to the cause to come across like you are doing us a favor just by being here. And driving away traffic obviously is not going to help in long-term success of the site.
mpapad
Reply #68 Friday, October 14, 2005 1:15 PM
Try DriveScan. My favorite utility!
Reply #68 Friday, October 14, 2005 1:15 PM
| Citizen 9Iron Well excuse me for being ignorant as I have not seen the worth of Object Desktop |
Try DriveScan. My favorite utility!
mpapad
Reply #69 Friday, October 14, 2005 1:23 PM
You're a member as long as I am. And I think that in all 336 MB's of download that I've done in this site that they cost many times the $20. Some of the skins here are pro quality and are for free.
Reply #69 Friday, October 14, 2005 1:23 PM
| Black Cat 77 Finally I told myself that I'd certainly gotten $20 worth of good from WC over all the years I've been here for free. |
You're a member as long as I am. And I think that in all 336 MB's of download that I've done in this site that they cost many times the $20. Some of the skins here are pro quality and are for free.
alpha-omega
Reply #70 Friday, October 14, 2005 1:25 PM
Reply #70 Friday, October 14, 2005 1:25 PM
Mr RiddickRom,
After reading all the comments, your comments are the only ones that stand out as
far as being, how should I word this, right on the mark. All I can say is that I hope
people like Brad take heed.
I am a Stardock customer and a subscriber here but I am
at a point whether or not to re-subscribe. The reason- the way I am sometimes treated
because I chose to leave a comment about the rating system and mentioned a certain skinners
name, then hello, my two latest skin postings were very strangely down rated all of a sudden.
This has happened on more than one occasion not only to me but to many others. This sort of
thing needs to STOP!
As far as the comment about giving up a few six packs of beer and a pizza goes, well all I have to say to
that is, it might only be $19.95 in America but here in NZ it is almost twice that price. Some of you
people need to keep that in mind.
I have also heard on the grape vine, so to speak, about how people are very unhappy about the
way they have been treated here and what goes on. It is true that bad news travels faster than good news,
but hey, thats life, and there is a LOT of bad news out there about Wincustomize and specifically about
how this site is being run. (Ratings system, Ranking etc). Its all to easy for a subscriber who ISN'T a
skinner to downgrade a skin because he or she doesn't like it, but they have NO idea how much work is
involved in making the skin. Personally, I feel that skinners should be the ONLY people that have the ability
to rate a skin, that way it would be much fairer because they know themselves what it takes to create
a skin or theme in the first place.
Think about it.
Enough said.
After reading all the comments, your comments are the only ones that stand out as
far as being, how should I word this, right on the mark. All I can say is that I hope
people like Brad take heed.
I am a Stardock customer and a subscriber here but I am
at a point whether or not to re-subscribe. The reason- the way I am sometimes treated
because I chose to leave a comment about the rating system and mentioned a certain skinners
name, then hello, my two latest skin postings were very strangely down rated all of a sudden.
This has happened on more than one occasion not only to me but to many others. This sort of
thing needs to STOP!
As far as the comment about giving up a few six packs of beer and a pizza goes, well all I have to say to
that is, it might only be $19.95 in America but here in NZ it is almost twice that price. Some of you
people need to keep that in mind.
I have also heard on the grape vine, so to speak, about how people are very unhappy about the
way they have been treated here and what goes on. It is true that bad news travels faster than good news,
but hey, thats life, and there is a LOT of bad news out there about Wincustomize and specifically about
how this site is being run. (Ratings system, Ranking etc). Its all to easy for a subscriber who ISN'T a
skinner to downgrade a skin because he or she doesn't like it, but they have NO idea how much work is
involved in making the skin. Personally, I feel that skinners should be the ONLY people that have the ability
to rate a skin, that way it would be much fairer because they know themselves what it takes to create
a skin or theme in the first place.
Think about it.
Enough said.
Hippie
Reply #71 Friday, October 14, 2005 1:25 PM
Reply #71 Friday, October 14, 2005 1:25 PM
I still say you should get newer skins. I mean 2003, 2004. C'mon you can do better.
mpapad
Reply #72 Friday, October 14, 2005 1:36 PM
You are right. It is very difficult to make a skin. The amount of work is huge!
But I don't agree that only skinners should be able to rate skins.
Maybe a rating system that uses the Users Access Class as a weight so an opinion from a user with high access class should contrast the opinions from users from lower classes.
Reply #72 Friday, October 14, 2005 1:36 PM
| Personally, I feel that skinners should be the ONLY people that have the ability to rate a skin, that way it would be much fairer because they know themselves what it takes to create a skin or theme in the first place. |
You are right. It is very difficult to make a skin. The amount of work is huge!
But I don't agree that only skinners should be able to rate skins.
Maybe a rating system that uses the Users Access Class as a weight so an opinion from a user with high access class should contrast the opinions from users from lower classes.
dhlennon
Reply #73 Friday, October 14, 2005 2:00 PM
Reply #73 Friday, October 14, 2005 2:00 PM
Hmm, a topic that invokes a lot of sentiment obviously.
I don't think anyone can rationally argue against people who contribute, subscribe, or buy SD products getting top priority here.
How about having 2 levels of WC content, (one for SD customers/ others SD consider favorite/favourite community members.. maybe only accessible through SDCentral) and a slimmed down version of the current site which will hopefully continue in a promotional role for SD but is strictly limited in D/L allowances etc.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
However perhaps a system where people "earn" D/L points depending on what they have done (ie bought something or created something) might be worth looking at FrogBoy?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know it's extra web-coding but as you are already investing your team's time and money in ways to weed out multi-account "members" why not consider doing that too?
Anyway just my comments, love all at SD.
I don't think anyone can rationally argue against people who contribute, subscribe, or buy SD products getting top priority here.
How about having 2 levels of WC content, (one for SD customers/ others SD consider favorite/favourite community members.. maybe only accessible through SDCentral) and a slimmed down version of the current site which will hopefully continue in a promotional role for SD but is strictly limited in D/L allowances etc.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
However perhaps a system where people "earn" D/L points depending on what they have done (ie bought something or created something) might be worth looking at FrogBoy?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know it's extra web-coding but as you are already investing your team's time and money in ways to weed out multi-account "members" why not consider doing that too?
Anyway just my comments, love all at SD.
blackcat77
Reply #74 Friday, October 14, 2005 2:11 PM
Reply #74 Friday, October 14, 2005 2:11 PM
>> I think that in all 336 MB's of download that I've done in this site that they cost many times the $20.
836 megs for me. So obviously I've already gotten my value from WC, and like I said, that was the final factor that convinced me to cough up the money. But I still hope that all concerned show respect for ordinary people like me as well as "the community."
836 megs for me. So obviously I've already gotten my value from WC, and like I said, that was the final factor that convinced me to cough up the money. But I still hope that all concerned show respect for ordinary people like me as well as "the community."
Hippie
Reply #75 Friday, October 14, 2005 2:53 PM
Reply #75 Friday, October 14, 2005 2:53 PM
Well, I subscribed, but so far I don't a good reason why. Maybe it will get better. They said you would get "Premium Suites". Yea. 2 years old. I'll wait and see if it gets any better, but so far, nothing spectacular. 
Frogboy
Reply #76 Friday, October 14, 2005 2:57 PM
Reply #76 Friday, October 14, 2005 2:57 PM
Incidentally, only a small % of people can actually rate skins.
Out of the 2.3 million accounts on WinCustomize, maybe 100,000 of them can rate skins. Only apprentices on up and subscribers can rate skins I believe.
qrayg
Reply #78 Friday, October 14, 2005 3:28 PM
Reply #78 Friday, October 14, 2005 3:28 PM
You could probably save yourself a ton of bandwidth costs by redesigning the site with a CSS table-less design (http://solardreamstudios.com, http://dt.qrayg.com). Your load times would decrease and make everyone happy. Plus, making sitewide design changes would be a breeze.
One of the things that's keeping me from subscribing is the unprofessional design and overall unorganized mess this site has become. I used to love coming here but ever since the new design I've been coming here less and less.
One of the things that's keeping me from subscribing is the unprofessional design and overall unorganized mess this site has become. I used to love coming here but ever since the new design I've been coming here less and less.
Surj
Reply #79 Friday, October 14, 2005 3:31 PM
Reply #79 Friday, October 14, 2005 3:31 PM
yeah, stardock really fell down on the subsscription offers, i resubscribed again because I want to support the site, but not for the bonus skins or any of the other fluff (pictures book etc). if they had a cheaper version, with less fluff and just bandwidth/basics, id be willing to bet they would've seen a lot more subscriptions.
regardless, very few of a whole lot bothered. i think that speaks volumes about the community.
regardless, very few of a whole lot bothered. i think that speaks volumes about the community.
CerebroJD
Reply #80 Friday, October 14, 2005 3:43 PM
Reply #80 Friday, October 14, 2005 3:43 PM
So, essentially, there are 25 million visitors per month, and there are only 2.3 million registered (NOT subscribed) members? Sounds to me like a first strike would be to restrict visitors to nearly nothing, encouraging registration. People are more likely to return to a site that they are a 'member' of.
Once they are a 'member', they will still have restrictions. I agree with the download limit, but I think that it should be lower... 25megs maximum. I've been a member for about 3 years, and I've only downloaded 1 gig of stuff. To give them 50mb's would be the equivalent of over a month of downloads (at my rate of speed). Maybe a 3 skin per-day limit would be more effective...
At this moment in time, with the subscription drive, the goal is to have people wanting to purchase subscriptions. Thats all fine and dandy, but I think that WinCustomize needs to start people down the path of 'needing' them. For example, how about all visitors and members can SEE all the skins, but only people with Subscriptions can download skins rated 5 stars. Members will be able to download any skin rated 4 star and below (up to their 25meg download limit), and Visitors will be able to download skins rated 3 and lower (up to their tiny download limit). Using this method, they will be exposed to all the talent here on WinCustomize, but they'll wont be able to access it unless they're willing to sign up, or pay up.
In my strategy, people who purchase Stardock products will have full and unlimited downloading priveledges, but will NOT get access to the subscriber premium skins or the other benefits that subscribers get.
The end goal, as always: Make WinCustomize self-sustainable. By literally forcing people to take steps in order to continue downloading, the 'freeloaders' will be skimmed out, and those willing to participate will remain. It is my hope that those loyal to the community will not let themselves be driven away by what will probably be a public outcry at the idea of charging for the use of this site. We've got a great community here, and I'm sure that it will be held together by the skills of the skinners, the helpfulness on the forums, and the goodwill of all visitors/members/subscribers!
Once they are a 'member', they will still have restrictions. I agree with the download limit, but I think that it should be lower... 25megs maximum. I've been a member for about 3 years, and I've only downloaded 1 gig of stuff. To give them 50mb's would be the equivalent of over a month of downloads (at my rate of speed). Maybe a 3 skin per-day limit would be more effective...
At this moment in time, with the subscription drive, the goal is to have people wanting to purchase subscriptions. Thats all fine and dandy, but I think that WinCustomize needs to start people down the path of 'needing' them. For example, how about all visitors and members can SEE all the skins, but only people with Subscriptions can download skins rated 5 stars. Members will be able to download any skin rated 4 star and below (up to their 25meg download limit), and Visitors will be able to download skins rated 3 and lower (up to their tiny download limit). Using this method, they will be exposed to all the talent here on WinCustomize, but they'll wont be able to access it unless they're willing to sign up, or pay up.
In my strategy, people who purchase Stardock products will have full and unlimited downloading priveledges, but will NOT get access to the subscriber premium skins or the other benefits that subscribers get.
The end goal, as always: Make WinCustomize self-sustainable. By literally forcing people to take steps in order to continue downloading, the 'freeloaders' will be skimmed out, and those willing to participate will remain. It is my hope that those loyal to the community will not let themselves be driven away by what will probably be a public outcry at the idea of charging for the use of this site. We've got a great community here, and I'm sure that it will be held together by the skills of the skinners, the helpfulness on the forums, and the goodwill of all visitors/members/subscribers!
Please login to comment and/or vote for this skin.
Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
- Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums and downloading skins.
- Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
- Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
- It's simple, and FREE!
|
|
Page 4 of 9 | |
|
|---|
Reply #61 Friday, October 14, 2005 10:55 AM
Sounds like we agree 100% RiddickRom.. I say give the freeloaders 10MB total downloads and make them click through at least one advertisment that they have to look at for 10 seconds every time they try and download something.
I would still like them to be able to use and view the site to an extent because if we lock everyone that's not currently a member out we'll never see growth in the membership but if we continue to let them see what they are truly missing out on, and this means they need to actually be missing out on something worthwhile (no offense but the WC browser isn't anything I miss, and the 2 year old out dated skins leave much to be desired, although I'd love to see Augustus updated to WB5 but I digress).
Anyway RiddickRom, I hope you find some value in the site and decide to stick around cause I think you'd be a great addition to the masses here!