The Future of WinCustomize.com...

Changes are coming...

Friday, September 30, 2005 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize News

Some changes are coming to WinCustomize.com.  Big changes.  But before we get to that, for those of you who haven't been here from the start, let me give you a brief history of WinCustomize.com...

...In the beginning the dot-com collapse of 2000 has knocked out many of the sites in our "skinning" community.  Many of us feared that it would be the end of our community. So in early 2001, Stardock quickly put together WinCustomize.com.  The idea at the time was that Stardock would provide the servers and bandwidth and community volunteers would take care of everything else.  That didn't work out so well and within the first month of the site's development, T-Man, a Stardock developer, had been put in charge of the site's development (which he continues to this day) and I came on as the primary administrator.  So that when the site was launched in March 2001, Stardock was taking care of the bandwidth, the servers, site coding, and overall site direction.  However, community volunteers did come to the rescue in the form of people like Jafo (and many others over time) who essentially take care of WinCustomize on a day to day basis.

But over time, the "skin" community has changed.  Despite skinning becoming increasingly popular, no major skin sites have been launched since 2001 (other customization-oriented sites have launched but no major gallery sites).  Moreover, since 2001, some of the existing skin sites have essentially gone on auto-pilot.  The skinning community, at its prime, was something to behold.  But it is not what it once was in my opinion. It is fractured and dispersed.

Meanwhile, traffic at WinCustomize.com has continued to grow and grow:

   
Figure 1: Traffic per month

At the same time, the # of subscriptions per month has declined and declined:


Figure 2: Subscriptions per month

So as a community of sites, we're at a cross-roads.  As someone who wants the skinning community (people who like to create and use "stuff" to alter the way their computer interfaces look & feel) to thrive, I want to do something that can help the community return to where it was.  But I'm also in the position of being in charge of Stardock.  The business case on WinCustomize has always been pretty weak.  The most profitable thing to do historically has been to close WinCustomize and just point to deviantART libraries of skins and themes for Stardock's software.  But at this point, closing WinCustomize.com would be a true last resort because a single site, deviantART, which is primarily an art site now, not a skin site, would have a virtual monopoly on skinning content (that's not to take away from Skinbase and other very good skin sites, but we're talking purely in terms of monthly traffic).

We're at a cross-roads then.  We have to get WinCustomize to a point where it can pay for itself.  I think the key to this is helping bring the skinning community back to its prime.  That means more community features, more galleries, more bandwidth, more programming, more of everything.  But to do this, it's going to cost money. Even with the people who volunteer, we still have to code the site, pay the bandwidth and the size of the site means that we need more people who's jobs are dedicated to the site.

So we've brought on two new people: Mike Bryant who many of you know.  He'll be creating some exclusive suites this year for WinCustomize subscribers.  We also have brought on WishX to help organize and keep the sites running, to interface more directly with the community volunteers.  And we hope to hire more ASP.net and SQL database developers to add in new features for people.  But to do this it's going to cost money. A lot of money.  Stardock writes most of the cost of WinCustomize off as "marketing".  But even today, WinCustomize costs many hundreds of thousands of dollars per year to run.  These changes are going to add dramatically to that cost. 

So later today, we're going to launch a subscription drive.  Our hope is to get 2,000 new (or renewed) subscribers between now and October 31st.  We'll be keeping you all informed of our progress. With 22 million visitors (over 3 million of whom are unique), getting 2,000 people to subscribe or renew shouldn't be a major problem we hope.  But we'll see.  We'll have more details on the subscription drive and what subscribers will be getting for sure and what they'll get IF we make the 2,000 goal.

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GhoS
Reply #41 Friday, September 30, 2005 4:09 PM
One suggestion would be to only make the subscription yearly from now on. Its quite generous being at two years. Of course that does put more burdon on those who already contribute in general.
Another idea is to limit even more what people get for "free" here. Probably downloads. Or maybe have each download be prefaced with an ad explaining the benefits of a subscription before continuing with the download.

Another idea would be to increase the price like $10 and include a choice of a free program such as ObjectDock Plus, Objectbar or something else.

This problem seems to crop up every 6 months or so and it doesn't seem to be making much ground. People are naturally against paying if they can help it, want stuff for free. I'm sure there are some other creative ideas out there.
sandpiperw
Reply #42 Friday, September 30, 2005 4:13 PM
This is not the only site that sometimes, and I mean very few times, makes you wait for pages to load. I feel that the content that is avaiable here is worth waiting for. If a page takes a while to load I just come back later, and it is usually OK then. All the problems I've had here were very minor, and like I said the content is just the best so it is worth coming back for
Frogboy
Reply #43 Friday, September 30, 2005 4:41 PM

I think most people would agree that site speed has dramatically improved since July.

Look at page views per day:

 

This Year's Visits and Page Views by Month

George Rogers Jr
Reply #44 Friday, September 30, 2005 4:43 PM
Agree sandpiperw....I have DSL & don't seem to encounter these long dl times or error's alot - they do happen but are few & far between. And YES Brad - the site HAS speeded-up!! My subscription isn't due till next summer, but I think I'll just send $19.95 to support the site - it's worth three times that much!!
Brokensquare
Reply #45 Friday, September 30, 2005 5:14 PM
I like GhoS's suggestion...why not just limit the free downloads on the site?...been a longtime subscriber, & will continue to do so...and re: Lady Aarielle...i have VERY few errors or problems - Stardock has increased it's speed on the site noticeably...If i have an irk with stardock, it's that they always seem to space new version releases at times that fall between my renewal times...AAARRRGGGHHH!!!

But hey, I love the site and products, and will continue to renew regularly!
MountainDragon
Reply #46 Friday, September 30, 2005 5:15 PM
I just renewed my subscription today, even though it wasn't up till next March. I still don't get why people seem to have such a hard time parting with $19.95 for a whole year (or two) of access to something they obviously want (or they wouldn't be here).

If you have cable TV, you pay more per month.
One dinner out.
One movie date.
That's it.
C'mon, people!
Lady Aarielle
Reply #47 Friday, September 30, 2005 5:15 PM
There doesn't seem to be much difference in the views when the new site started and glitches were rampant and today.
As far as speed I haven't been around often enough lately to verify that, but, I got an: error '/' in application once, already!

Nothing would make me happier than to find that the site is running as smoothly as the old WC...... I love changing my desktop!
If the site is back to normal you can count on me to renew both! ( DesktopX and WC )

Just out of curiosity are most of your current subscribers skinners or hobbyists?
That's a major factor in sales!!
RPGFX
Reply #48 Friday, September 30, 2005 5:17 PM
I think most people would agree that site speed has dramatically improved since July



I would say the overall speed, reliability and quality of the site has improved 100 fold since July. I haven't gotten a page error message on this site in quite some time. At least a month. I've also come to realize that the administration really is trying. And they really do care about the community. Not long ago, I told them all to stick it where the sun don't shine, because I was just totally fed up. But, since that time, I've done ALOT of reading in the forums, and not so much posting. I've learned a few things that I wish I had understood before I flamed this place. I really want to see this site survive and flourish. I know it is certainly not professional to beg, but I think there are many people here who already have a subscription that would be more than willing to donate to help save WC. Perhaps some sort of donation link through paypal or something. Just a thought. And while I'm at it, I will make a public apology to Brad, Jafo and others who deserve it from me. But not that Emily... she just pisses me off. Anyway, WC, I hope you find a way, and if there's any way we can help aside from subscriptions, let us know!
NightTrainthedark
Reply #49 Friday, September 30, 2005 5:25 PM
I think everyone hears where you are coming from Lady Aarielle. I had to make a decision last month when I renewed and I am happy to say that the site has been running almost perfect. The day after I renewd the site went down. I was like....well that figures. Since then everything has been pretty smooth.
Lady Aarielle
Reply #50 Friday, September 30, 2005 5:45 PM
Well, Night Train I'm truly happy to hear that!!
Of all my friends I believe I am the most addicted to playing around with and changing the look of my desktop. Guess I'll start cruising by daily.

BTW, love your work in fact I just downloaded "Scape", yesterday.
tjesterb
Reply #51 Friday, September 30, 2005 5:59 PM
I've been a ODNT subscriber for almost two years, and even subscribed to WC because I wanted to support the site. I like the community, and I do download quite a bit. I plan to continue both subscriptions.
However, I don't really see much benefit to a WC subscription in addition to ODNT. I don't use the premium suites, and for the life of me, I can't see the purpose of the WC browser (maybe make it gecko-based and use FF extensions?)
I understand that their are business realities to be faced, and I appreciate the upfront honesty about the situation. I have found Stardock to be one of the most honest businesses I have dealt with. They provide a fantastic product for a reasonable cost.
I have tried to get friends and family interested in WC and Object Desktop, but mostly they don't see the point in it.
Maybe some print ads in some of the PC magazines could spark some more interest. (Hey, I work in printing, and I have to make a living too )
firstliight
Reply #52 Friday, September 30, 2005 6:31 PM
When I was introduced to wincustomize.com, I was blown away. I never knew that one could change how their computer looks beyond the skins that come with Window XP.

Then I took a look at the window blinds skins and I was surprised that the skins where created by regular Joe’s just like me, the level of creativity that the skinners have excited me, I was hooked!

I wanted to give it a try, to see if I could do it. I felt artistically rejuvenated and refreshed.
So I got a subscription and set out to learn how to build my first skin.

When it is time for me to renew my subscription I will be happy to do so. I feel that those that come to wincustomize.com and have downloading anything should feel a little obligated to help keep this unique site up and running.

Some have to remember how much free stuff this sight allows its users to have access too. (I know I am going to get some negative statements after this comment, but it cool)

Any way I guess I said all this to say, Lets help wincustomize.com become a bigger and better sight for all skinners.

(Ok, I’m done!) LOL

firstliight
Winmodify
Reply #53 Friday, September 30, 2005 6:59 PM
Another way of saving bandwidth is deleting files which are older than 1 year or have not been downloaded 'enough' to stay online, That way you will filter our the 'not so good' skins and save bandwidth for the newer 'greater' skins... Just an idea
Fairyy~
Reply #54 Friday, September 30, 2005 7:04 PM
[Night Train]
And the thing most likely to give is to start buckling down harshly on what non-customers can do and then start rewarding subscribers more intensely


hallelulah!

It is too easy for non subscribers to get around the download cap if and when they reach it. Newcomers don't care about a communty. They want free stuff. <--period


~~~Well finally someone said what I've been thinking while reading this thread.
I've been downloading blinds and stuff all day without signing in..doesn't take an Einstein to figure out ways around things. But, i'll be damned if I was going to say it for the few that don't know.
There really is no incentive for anyone to pay for a subscription. They dont care about the benefits that we get......only what they can get for free. A few libraries ...can only be seen by the public if Items have a rating of 3.5 to 4 stars and above. More or less the " top " quality of wincustomize. In one sense, I see your marketing strategy.
Show them top notch in hopes that they become members. Unfortunately I think that works in reverse. If they can get the top notch stuff for free..why bother buying a subscription ? I say let them " see" the higher quality stuff but not be able to download it. That should be a benefit for paid members. A visitor can use the screen shot section and have literally hundreads of screen shots using space on WC. After 6 months your no longer a "visitor" your a freeloader. My screen shot library shows 92 Shots since I joined..almost 2 years ago. But in reality , there are 52, I deleted the others because its a waste of space..

Anyway, back to the " look what you CAN have for a measely $20 a year. Technically after One year and with next renewal its $40 for THREE years.

Thats not a lot of money for most people that own a computer.

Also..maybe another type of subscription donation program or contest like A_47 did last month. I felt the people that recieved the subscriptions were more than happy and expressed a lot of gratitude.
Maybe just toss up an address that people could donate to .. anonymously..if they choose..
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #55 Friday, September 30, 2005 7:38 PM

I agree there should be a limit on the activities of non-subscribers. But what about people who have purchased a product? Surely they are entitled to download skins for their product? And people new to skinning need to get a good look at the software to encourage them to buy.

OK, how about this: People using shareware have a pack of the best dozen skins they can download for each product, to try out the product before they buy - no access to any other downloads. People who have bought a product have unlimited downloads of skins rated 4 stars and above. WC subscribers have access to everything.

It would at least provide an incentive to subscribe.

brewman
Reply #56 Friday, September 30, 2005 7:39 PM
(Fairyy~)There really is no incentive for anyone to pay for a subscription. They dont care about the benefits that we get......only what they can get for free.


I totally agree. Brad, the ONLY reason I bought a subscription, a few month ago,
was to do my little part in supporting the community and Stardock. The subscription
has absolutely no value for "Joe Blow" and myself included.

Until you can figure out a way to make the subscription a "Must have" item, you'll
be facing this dilemma until the cows come home.
Jafo
Reply #57 Friday, September 30, 2005 8:16 PM

is there anyway i can get a subscription? i can't use my parents credit card because they don't want me here in the first place.

Apprentice Bash2cool ...in all seriousness...if your parents do NOT 'want you here'...then you should not BE here.

It's not really appropriate to facilitate the 'rebellion' of a minor against his parents'/responsible adult's wishes.

There are alternatives to credit card usage for payment, but respectfully you would do better to lobby for your parent's consent instead....

Jafo
Reply #58 Friday, September 30, 2005 8:26 PM

But, since that time, I've done ALOT of reading in the forums, and not so much posting. I've learned a few things that I wish I had understood before I flamed this place. I really want to see this site survive and flourish. I know it is certainly not professional to beg, but I think there are many people here who already have a subscription that would be more than willing to donate to help save WC. Perhaps some sort of donation link through paypal or something. Just a thought. And while I'm at it, I will make a public apology to Brad, Jafo and others who deserve it from me.

Apprentice RPGFX  ...thanks for that, mate....it's always good to know there's an understanding that the Admins' efforts are really in the right place....though sometimes it seems 'adversarial'....

Hus
Reply #59 Friday, September 30, 2005 8:30 PM
Until you can figure out a way to make the subscription a "Must have" item, you'll
be facing this dilemma until the cows come home.


The wise words from brewman. I completely agree with that statement, I renewed my subscription for the love of the site, not for "what I get out of it". If someone is not attached to this place enough, there is hardly a reason to subscribe...
Frogboy
Reply #60 Friday, September 30, 2005 9:08 PM

I totally agree. Brad, the ONLY reason I bought a subscription, a few month ago,
was to do my little part in supporting the community and Stardock. The subscription
has absolutely no value for "Joe Blow" and myself included.

Until you can figure out a way to make the subscription a "Must have" item, you'll
be facing this dilemma until the cows come home.

 

We're definitely open to ideas.  We want people to be able to come in and be able to download a few things without having to create an account. But you're right, people can get around the limits if they put some thought into it (deleting cookies for instance). 

I think we'll probably end up having to put in more effort to make people create accounts. Once they create accounts it's a bit easier to monitor how much someone is downloading.

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