The Future of WinCustomize.com...
Changes are coming...
Friday, September 30, 2005 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize News
Some changes are coming to WinCustomize.com. Big changes. But before we get to that, for those of you who haven't been here from the start, let me give you a brief history of WinCustomize.com...
...In the beginning the dot-com collapse of 2000 has knocked out many of the sites in our "skinning" community. Many of us feared that it would be the end of our community. So in early 2001, Stardock quickly put together WinCustomize.com. The idea at the time was that Stardock would provide the servers and bandwidth and community volunteers would take care of everything else. That didn't work out so well and within the first month of the site's development, T-Man, a Stardock developer, had been put in charge of the site's development (which he continues to this day) and I came on as the primary administrator. So that when the site was launched in March 2001, Stardock was taking care of the bandwidth, the servers, site coding, and overall site direction. However, community volunteers did come to the rescue in the form of people like Jafo (and many others over time) who essentially take care of WinCustomize on a day to day basis.
But over time, the "skin" community has changed. Despite skinning becoming increasingly popular, no major skin sites have been launched since 2001 (other customization-oriented sites have launched but no major gallery sites). Moreover, since 2001, some of the existing skin sites have essentially gone on auto-pilot. The skinning community, at its prime, was something to behold. But it is not what it once was in my opinion. It is fractured and dispersed.
Meanwhile, traffic at WinCustomize.com has continued to grow and grow:
At the same time, the # of subscriptions per month has declined and declined:

Figure 2: Subscriptions per month
So as a community of sites, we're at a cross-roads. As someone who wants the skinning community (people who like to create and use "stuff" to alter the way their computer interfaces look & feel) to thrive, I want to do something that can help the community return to where it was. But I'm also in the position of being in charge of Stardock. The business case on WinCustomize has always been pretty weak. The most profitable thing to do historically has been to close WinCustomize and just point to deviantART libraries of skins and themes for Stardock's software. But at this point, closing WinCustomize.com would be a true last resort because a single site, deviantART, which is primarily an art site now, not a skin site, would have a virtual monopoly on skinning content (that's not to take away from Skinbase and other very good skin sites, but we're talking purely in terms of monthly traffic).
We're at a cross-roads then. We have to get WinCustomize to a point where it can pay for itself. I think the key to this is helping bring the skinning community back to its prime. That means more community features, more galleries, more bandwidth, more programming, more of everything. But to do this, it's going to cost money. Even with the people who volunteer, we still have to code the site, pay the bandwidth and the size of the site means that we need more people who's jobs are dedicated to the site.
So we've brought on two new people: Mike Bryant who many of you know. He'll be creating some exclusive suites this year for WinCustomize subscribers. We also have brought on WishX to help organize and keep the sites running, to interface more directly with the community volunteers. And we hope to hire more ASP.net and SQL database developers to add in new features for people. But to do this it's going to cost money. A lot of money. Stardock writes most of the cost of WinCustomize off as "marketing". But even today, WinCustomize costs many hundreds of thousands of dollars per year to run. These changes are going to add dramatically to that cost.
So later today, we're going to launch a subscription drive. Our hope is to get 2,000 new (or renewed) subscribers between now and October 31st. We'll be keeping you all informed of our progress. With 22 million visitors (over 3 million of whom are unique), getting 2,000 people to subscribe or renew shouldn't be a major problem we hope. But we'll see. We'll have more details on the subscription drive and what subscribers will be getting for sure and what they'll get IF we make the 2,000 goal.
Reply #22 Friday, September 30, 2005 11:55 AM
If you have to raise the price 10.00 a subscription. I know you will get allot of heat for this but I would hate not being able to get all the different faces for my screen.
I have and hope to enjoy your products for many years to come.
Reply #23 Friday, September 30, 2005 11:55 AM
| Isn't much of the business justification for wincustomize.com is as an advertising venue for Stardock products? Or does Stardock expect to list advertising on the on the "income" side of the ledger rather than an "expense"? How many copies of windowblinds or iconpackager would Stardock sell if wincustomize went away? What would Stardock's profit margin be if talented artists didn't freely (for the most part) provide content for their products? |
If you had read what I wrote, Stardock does write off much of the cost of WinCustomize as marketing. However, at >$300k per year in costs, there are a LOT more effective ways to advertising.
Stardock could point to deviantART.com and send customers there to download skins and themes. And work something out on dA where it promoted Stardock's stuff more heavily. It would be a lot cheaper.
Stardock's willing to pay the bulk of the costs. But not all. WinCustomize doesn't NEED to support other program skins. It doesn't NEED to have forums. It doesn't NEED personal pages. It doesn't NEED to have commenting and news, and articles and other database intensive. Even if Stardock decided not to go with a deviantART type solution, it could just have Stardock.com based skin libraries that are simply a listing of new skins. That IS an option.
Reply #24 Friday, September 30, 2005 11:55 AM
| How many copies of windowblinds or iconpackager would Stardock sell if wincustomize went away? |
Probably the same amount less the thousand of free skins that you get here.
| What would Stardock's profit margin be if talented artists didn't freely (for the most part) provide content for their products? |
I think the question would be, how much more money would you HAVE to spend to buy the graphic programs to create YOUR own skins.
Reply #25 Friday, September 30, 2005 12:12 PM
Reply #26 Friday, September 30, 2005 12:17 PM
Thanks for the response, Frogboy. That provides a lot more perspective and makes sense, especially the issue of skins for non-stardock software. I didn't intend to flame Stardock, as I do support their products.
Reply #27 Friday, September 30, 2005 12:32 PM

Reply #28 Friday, September 30, 2005 12:38 PM

Reply #29 Friday, September 30, 2005 12:46 PM
| If you had read what I wrote, Stardock does write off much of the cost of WinCustomize as marketing. However, at >$300k per year in costs, there are a LOT more effective ways to advertising. |
| Probably the same amount less the thousand of free skins that you get here. |
| I think the question would be, how much more money would you HAVE to spend to buy the graphic programs to create YOUR own skins. |
I may be wrong here, but I don't think Stardock would have lasted if not for Wincustomize. Stardock has built up a reputation now and would probably endure if WC went away but at a considerable loss in sales of SD Products, even with promotion on DA. True, you would alleviate the >$300K burden but you would lose $400K in SD Product Sales thus resulting in a total loss of $100K. Wincustomize is the backbone of the skinning community and making it go away in any fashion would probably start the slow demise of the skinning community as a whole.
I would rather see the free access associated with a OD purchase go away and everyone pays $10-$20 per year for WC Subscription.
Reply #30 Friday, September 30, 2005 1:16 PM
| Wincustomize is the backbone of the skinning community and making it go away in any fashion would probably start the slow demise of the skinning community as a whole. |
I have to agree with that prediction. I know I would fall out of touch.
Reply #31 Friday, September 30, 2005 1:42 PM
| Stardock customers get additional benefits on WinCustomize however. |
...what are those additional benefits? Do those benefits overlap each other if say we subscribe to ODNT AND Wincustomize?
Reply #32 Friday, September 30, 2005 1:48 PM
| what are those additional benefits? |
unlimited downloads for the duration of your odnt subscription.
Reply #33 Friday, September 30, 2005 2:10 PM
| what are those additional benefits? unlimited downloads for the duration of your odnt subscription. |
Doesn't sound like much of a benefit to me if you get that with a WC subscription.
Reply #34 Friday, September 30, 2005 2:19 PM
| At the same time, the # of subscriptions per month has declined and declined: |
Maybe there are a few other overlooked reasons? I have made quite a few people come here to take a look at what WC (and Stardock) has to offer, and quite a few of them don't want to subscribe because of these familiar messages.
Server Error in '/' Application.
and
An Error Occurred
There was a problem opening this page. Please refresh the page and try again.
Whatever you were trying to do, it didn't work out the way you expected.
You could always return to the Home Page.
I even got these two myself today...
Reply #35 Friday, September 30, 2005 2:26 PM
is there anyway i can get a subscription? i can't use my parents credit card because they don't want me here in the first place. So...can i like put some dollar bills in an envelope and send it?
and/or if Frogboy makes and advertisement online it will sure help. Also the only thing i can do to help out (if i get or do not get a subscription) is if Frogboy desgins a paper ad and send it to me so i can print about 100 pages or more and give to people outside.
so what can i do?
oo...also i forgot to tell you that i can also convince people online to go to wimcustomize but i need to know some people?
Also you can tell Microsoft to convence msn users to go to wincustomize.
WOW... a lot of things to talk about!
Reply #36 Friday, September 30, 2005 2:59 PM
| So...can i like put some dollar bills in an envelope and send it? |
Money Order
Bank check

Reply #37 Friday, September 30, 2005 3:38 PM
| Hate that when your typing a response and someone posts something pertinent in the meantime... Thanks for the response, Frogboy. That provides a lot more perspective and makes sense, especially the issue of skins for non-stardock software. I didn't intend to flame Stardock, as I do support their products. |
Thanks. For the most part we agree: Stardock looks at WinCustomize as a marketing expense too -- up to a point. If WinCustomize cost Stardock say $50k per year, then it's a good business decision to have it.
At $200k, it gets to be more problematic, you could buy a prime time TV ad for that.
At $300k it really gets problematic.
And if the trend continues, by this time next year, it's going to be closer to $400k and that's not sustainable. WinCustomize needs to find a way to be getting 1,000 or so subscribers per month. Between that and ad revenue, the site would be sustainable with the rest of the expense being written off as a hefty but worthwhile marketing expense.
But WC doesn't get 1,000 subscribers per month. It doesn't even get a third that rate. And on a site that receives over 3 MILLION unique visitors, that strikes me as ridiculous. Obviously if Stardock has 3 MILLION customers, it would be moot. I'd be writing this email from my private tropical island. So you see the issue. 3 million unique visitors, 22 million total visitors. Something's gotta give.
And the thing most likely to give is to start buckling down harshly on what non-customers can do and then start rewarding subscribers more intensely.
Reply #38 Friday, September 30, 2005 3:45 PM
| Money Order Bank check |
so can i bring money in an envelope?
if yes...how can i send it.
if not... according to what i said before....can that help?
Reply #39 Friday, September 30, 2005 3:48 PM
| And the thing most likely to give is to start buckling down harshly on what non-customers can do and then start rewarding subscribers more intensely |
hallelulah!
It is too easy for non subscribers to get around the download cap if and when they reach it. Newcomers don't care about a communty. They want free stuff. <--period
Reply #40 Friday, September 30, 2005 3:51 PM
I found WC by accident in 2003 and loved it...... I bought IP, WB, DesktopX, and WC subscription all in an effort to support the community. I came to this site almost daily and enjoyed the forums.
However, since the move last December to this site the glitches seemed interminable, the ubiquitous errors were very annoying, and waiting for anything to open took an eternity...... I finally took to timing how long things took to open and the average was between 48 seconds to 2 1/2 minutes!! I don't have that kind of time or patience...... that's why I have high speed Internet as opposed to dial-up! I posted the problems on the forums but the fellows were getting to things as quickly as they could...... in April I stopped coming to WC. I come back occasionally because I still like WC but if clicking on anything takes more than ten seconds or I get an error, I leave again.
That is the reason I let my DesktopX subscription expire and probably won't renew my WC either. I would renew both in a heartbeat...... if I find that the site is running smoothly. Unfortuneately, the two times I came back in July the time problems were still a factor. A friend of mine suggested that perhaps it was because I came to the site so late at night but that never mattered at the old WC...... so I don't think that's it.
By the looks of your sales chart the drop coincides with the move in December. I don't know if this is anyone else's reason for not renewing, but I do know I wasn't the only one extremely annoyed by the problems here. I know at least two other people who stopped coming here for the same reasons. None of us are skinners..... so this is more of a hobby than something necessary and when the hobby gets too irksome one tends to loose interest.
Hope this sheds some light on reasons why membership is dropping.
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Reply #21 Friday, September 30, 2005 11:38 AM
These questions get brought up regularly, when people are asked to support this site with something real.
My question to you: Considering everything that's available here, why would you not want to support it for the miniscule price of ONE dinner in a not very expensive restaurant?