Windows authentication check now mandatory
Piracy-check mandatory for Windows add-ons
Tuesday, July 26, 2005 by coffeegrinder | Discussion: Windows Software
Any Windows add-ons except security patches now require OS authentication check.
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CaptainWin
Reply #2 Tuesday, July 26, 2005 5:47 PM
Reply #2 Tuesday, July 26, 2005 5:47 PM
My problem with this is that I have gone through the check only to be told that my copy can not be authenticated. I bought my computer from Dell with XP Home installed. Does this mean that Dell is installing pirated copies on the computers they sell?
_02
Reply #3 Tuesday, July 26, 2005 7:50 PM
I don't know. My computer was bought new with Windows XP Home already installed, and it has been authenticated everytime. I do not have a Dell. Maybe you aren't using the right numbers. It is very confusing, and there are alot of them. It is the tiny little numbers on the back of the computer (at least on mine) that say product key.
Reply #3 Tuesday, July 26, 2005 7:50 PM
| Does this mean that Dell is installing pirated copies on the computers they sell? |
I don't know. My computer was bought new with Windows XP Home already installed, and it has been authenticated everytime. I do not have a Dell. Maybe you aren't using the right numbers. It is very confusing, and there are alot of them. It is the tiny little numbers on the back of the computer (at least on mine) that say product key.
Phoon
Reply #4 Tuesday, July 26, 2005 8:18 PM
Have you contacted Dell Tech support? The only issue you should have with a Dell OS is if you installed it on a non-dell system and used your Product ID that came with it. That will spawn a call to MS to Activate it, and a healthy round of QA.
Reply #4 Tuesday, July 26, 2005 8:18 PM
| My problem with this is that I have gone through the check only to be told that my copy can not be authenticated. I bought my computer from Dell with XP Home installed. Does this mean that Dell is installing pirated copies on the computers they sell? |
Have you contacted Dell Tech support? The only issue you should have with a Dell OS is if you installed it on a non-dell system and used your Product ID that came with it. That will spawn a call to MS to Activate it, and a healthy round of QA.
George Rogers Jr
Reply #5 Tuesday, July 26, 2005 10:38 PM
Reply #5 Tuesday, July 26, 2005 10:38 PM
I've done this & have had no problems so far.....my copy of Windows XP Pro is legitmate & don't mind them asking everytime in the least - I don't like cheaters!! 
kona0197
Reply #6 Wednesday, July 27, 2005 12:02 AM
Reply #6 Wednesday, July 27, 2005 12:02 AM
People have found ways around MS things like this in the past - no doubt they will now.
Dracil
Reply #7 Wednesday, July 27, 2005 12:11 AM
Reply #7 Wednesday, July 27, 2005 12:11 AM
Wow, I was off. You don't even need to wait for the patches to appear on the P2P and/or warez scene, they're already available direct download on legitimate sites.
Taking bets on how long it takes for MS to decide to shut them down.
More info on Slashdot. http://slashdot.org/articles/05/07/26/1329231.shtml
Taking bets on how long it takes for MS to decide to shut them down.
More info on Slashdot. http://slashdot.org/articles/05/07/26/1329231.shtml
Lotherius
Reply #8 Wednesday, July 27, 2005 7:16 AM
Reply #8 Wednesday, July 27, 2005 7:16 AM
What I've been seeing for YEARS doing tech support are people who throw away or lose all the documentation that came with their copy of Windows. One woman that I sold a computer system to, complete with new copy of Windows 2000, was proud of herself for having organized her entire collection of CDs into those slim-line plastic containers. I asked her what she did with all the original packaging, and she said she threw it out.
She was quite upset when I informed her that I couldn't fix her computer (it needed reinstalled due to massive virus infestation) without selling her a new copy of 2000 (or XP at the time). She finally got her son to put a pirated key on her legit copy of 2000 so they could get it reinstalled.
I haven't tried this activiation, but if it requires the user inputting their product key or anything off of the original packaging, chances are there'll be a LOT of people in the same boat as that woman.
(EDIT): I was curious how this worked. I ran it. Said my key was valid. Interesting. As far as I know, Stardock keys are about the only ones on this particular machine that should pass such a test.
She was quite upset when I informed her that I couldn't fix her computer (it needed reinstalled due to massive virus infestation) without selling her a new copy of 2000 (or XP at the time). She finally got her son to put a pirated key on her legit copy of 2000 so they could get it reinstalled.
I haven't tried this activiation, but if it requires the user inputting their product key or anything off of the original packaging, chances are there'll be a LOT of people in the same boat as that woman.
(EDIT): I was curious how this worked. I ran it. Said my key was valid. Interesting. As far as I know, Stardock keys are about the only ones on this particular machine that should pass such a test.
PurrBall
Reply #9 Wednesday, July 27, 2005 7:31 AM
Reply #9 Wednesday, July 27, 2005 7:31 AM
I never throw away packaging, even the nice cow-spotted boxes the computer comes in.
starkers
Reply #10 Wednesday, July 27, 2005 11:36 AM
Reply #10 Wednesday, July 27, 2005 11:36 AM
I have no objection whatsoever to the Windows Validation requirement, but I didn't have to provide any keys when I did so.
When asked if I wanted to validate my copy, I clicked yes and an Active X component was downloaded to my system which must have scanned it for authenticity. From that point on, all I do is click on yes to validate and I'm taken to the download without delay.
Seems like a simple and fair enough process to me, and even if some smart alecs find ways around it, MS has the resources at its disposal to engineer more effective ways to combat this piracy, I'm sure. Apparently the new Vista has even more sophisticated anti-piracy measures built into it....spawning, I guess, another illicit industry to produce cheap or free copies.
When asked if I wanted to validate my copy, I clicked yes and an Active X component was downloaded to my system which must have scanned it for authenticity. From that point on, all I do is click on yes to validate and I'm taken to the download without delay.
Seems like a simple and fair enough process to me, and even if some smart alecs find ways around it, MS has the resources at its disposal to engineer more effective ways to combat this piracy, I'm sure. Apparently the new Vista has even more sophisticated anti-piracy measures built into it....spawning, I guess, another illicit industry to produce cheap or free copies.
CaptainWin
Reply #11 Wednesday, July 27, 2005 12:40 PM
Reply #11 Wednesday, July 27, 2005 12:40 PM
My problem is now solved. My first try that failed, was when I tried to download Microsofts Antispyware program. Today I went to Windows Update and completed the process without any problems. It downloaded a small file to my computer that, after installation, authenticated my copy of XP without any input from me. Must of been some sort of glitch at the AntiSpyware site.
bakerstreet
Reply #12 Wednesday, July 27, 2005 12:56 PM
Reply #12 Wednesday, July 27, 2005 12:56 PM
The whole "download the patch from another source" thing won't work when the patch itself is set to check for a validated OS. All they have to do is set the encrypted patch to validate your activation code with the MS site before it will install, and send the key to decrypt it at the same time from the MS site.
Anyway, get over the idea that "you can get around anything". That is because of the hardware we have now. Within ten years, you won't be able to buy hardware that will allow you to get around it. We are maybe 2 OS releases and 1 processor generation from DRM at the hardware level.
This week there was a consortium on replacing the bios with a new format. Bank on that having DRM abilities. MS has even used the drive to HDTV to force DRM integration into monitors themselves. Play with your cracks and regkeys while you can.
Anyway, get over the idea that "you can get around anything". That is because of the hardware we have now. Within ten years, you won't be able to buy hardware that will allow you to get around it. We are maybe 2 OS releases and 1 processor generation from DRM at the hardware level.
This week there was a consortium on replacing the bios with a new format. Bank on that having DRM abilities. MS has even used the drive to HDTV to force DRM integration into monitors themselves. Play with your cracks and regkeys while you can.
George Rogers Jr
Reply #14 Thursday, July 28, 2005 1:24 AM
Reply #14 Thursday, July 28, 2005 1:24 AM
I hope that's true BakerStreet - I have my legit copy & don't mind harder security measures - should of happened along time ago! Save your receipts, packaging, licensing - everything!
bakerstreet
Reply #15 Thursday, July 28, 2005 1:30 AM
Reply #15 Thursday, July 28, 2005 1:30 AM
I don't agree with piracy, but I utterly dispise hardware activation. I don't mind much of anything else, but I think it sucks to have to call Microsoft and beg permission to reinstall my OS after changing my hardware.
Mac sells a 5 machine license to home users for the standard price. There's no reason MS couldn't do that, too, and I hope someday they'll face Mac as real 'shrinkwrap vs. shrinkwrap' competition and be forced to consider the idea. If Mac ever sold a 5 machine license for the generic PC user, poppa Bill would lose a lot of business, I think. Now that Macs are being built on Intel architecture, we're one step closer to that.
If I have three computers in the same room, I think it is heinous to have to pay $600 for three copies of the same program. It doesn't make piracy right, but it makes in enevitable, I think.
Mac sells a 5 machine license to home users for the standard price. There's no reason MS couldn't do that, too, and I hope someday they'll face Mac as real 'shrinkwrap vs. shrinkwrap' competition and be forced to consider the idea. If Mac ever sold a 5 machine license for the generic PC user, poppa Bill would lose a lot of business, I think. Now that Macs are being built on Intel architecture, we're one step closer to that.
If I have three computers in the same room, I think it is heinous to have to pay $600 for three copies of the same program. It doesn't make piracy right, but it makes in enevitable, I think.
Tarkus
Reply #16 Thursday, July 28, 2005 1:46 AM
I basically agree with you, but isn't that a bit overly dramatic? I've had to call MS before after changing hardware, but there was no begging. They basically just ask if you've installed it on any other computer, and when you say no, you're all set. It's still more of a PITA than what I'd like, but it's not as bad as people make it out to be.
Reply #16 Thursday, July 28, 2005 1:46 AM
| I don't agree with piracy, but I utterly dispise hardware activation. I don't mind much of anything else, but I think it sucks to have to call Microsoft and beg permission to reinstall my OS after changing my hardware. |
I basically agree with you, but isn't that a bit overly dramatic? I've had to call MS before after changing hardware, but there was no begging. They basically just ask if you've installed it on any other computer, and when you say no, you're all set. It's still more of a PITA than what I'd like, but it's not as bad as people make it out to be.
Dracil
Reply #17 Thursday, July 28, 2005 2:43 AM
Will never happen. You're forgetting not everyone has internet, especially for something like Windows used all over the world, and thus MS can't force people to activate online, and most of the cracks make use of the activate through non-online means anyhow.
Ah yes, Intel's nail on their coffin. Unless AMD follows, *then* you have a point. Of course, there's a good chance that China's CPU by that time will actually be of comparable performance, then it's back to square one. Good luck forcing the country with one of the highest piracy rates to accept your idea of IP laws. Then again, it may be possible that it'll basically be a choice between the US's censorship model or China's censorship model, in which case, I'd still probably pick the US's.
Can you say imports? Until prices come down to levels reasonable for 3rd world countries, you can't really succeed at global hardware controls, unless you start mass banning hardware imports, which would probably have political and economic repercussions. Big as your economy is, it won't be easy becoming isolated from most of the Asian market.
That, or there's one repressive and efficient world government (can't have black markets and all that). Hmm, 1984 anyone?
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I recall they tried hardware copy protections many many years ago. You had to actually insert a physical key in your computer and all that for the software to run. Don't see that technology around anymore.
Reply #17 Thursday, July 28, 2005 2:43 AM
| The whole "download the patch from another source" thing won't work when the patch itself is set to check for a validated OS. All they have to do is set the encrypted patch to validate your activation code with the MS site before it will install, and send the key to decrypt it at the same time from the MS site. |
Will never happen. You're forgetting not everyone has internet, especially for something like Windows used all over the world, and thus MS can't force people to activate online, and most of the cracks make use of the activate through non-online means anyhow.
| Anyway, get over the idea that "you can get around anything". That is because of the hardware we have now. Within ten years, you won't be able to buy hardware that will allow you to get around it. We are maybe 2 OS releases and 1 processor generation from DRM at the hardware level. |
Ah yes, Intel's nail on their coffin. Unless AMD follows, *then* you have a point. Of course, there's a good chance that China's CPU by that time will actually be of comparable performance, then it's back to square one. Good luck forcing the country with one of the highest piracy rates to accept your idea of IP laws. Then again, it may be possible that it'll basically be a choice between the US's censorship model or China's censorship model, in which case, I'd still probably pick the US's.
| This week there was a consortium on replacing the bios with a new format. Bank on that having DRM abilities. MS has even used the drive to HDTV to force DRM integration into monitors themselves. Play with your cracks and regkeys while you can. |
Can you say imports? Until prices come down to levels reasonable for 3rd world countries, you can't really succeed at global hardware controls, unless you start mass banning hardware imports, which would probably have political and economic repercussions. Big as your economy is, it won't be easy becoming isolated from most of the Asian market.
That, or there's one repressive and efficient world government (can't have black markets and all that). Hmm, 1984 anyone?
------------------------
I recall they tried hardware copy protections many many years ago. You had to actually insert a physical key in your computer and all that for the software to run. Don't see that technology around anymore.
Dracil
Reply #18 Thursday, July 28, 2005 3:03 AM
Agreed, I just looked at the price of 5 OS X licenses, and it's only $199, or about $40 per license. Quite reasonable. This is important with what I'm about to say next.
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People have commented how Windows Genuine Advantage is really Microsoft's Discount Program.
Get a pirated version, go ahead and validate, and boom, you get WinXP Pro for only $149 instead of $299.
It's the difference of half a month's salary for an entry-level administrative position here. Or a whole month's difference for a teacher. Definitely not to be ignored. Of course, still a hard sell compared to a $3.50 bootleg openly sold in the department stores here. And people in Western countries wonder why piracy is so high and even expected in Asia. Heck, it's actually easier to buy pirated software than it is to buy legit software here.
Reply #18 Thursday, July 28, 2005 3:03 AM
| I don't agree with piracy, but I utterly dispise hardware activation. I don't mind much of anything else, but I think it sucks to have to call Microsoft and beg permission to reinstall my OS after changing my hardware. Mac sells a 5 machine license to home users for the standard price. There's no reason MS couldn't do that, too, and I hope someday they'll face Mac as real 'shrinkwrap vs. shrinkwrap' competition and be forced to consider the idea. If Mac ever sold a 5 machine license for the generic PC user, poppa Bill would lose a lot of business, I think. Now that Macs are being built on Intel architecture, we're one step closer to that. If I have three computers in the same room, I think it is heinous to have to pay $600 for three copies of the same program. It doesn't make piracy right, but it makes in enevitable, I think. |
Agreed, I just looked at the price of 5 OS X licenses, and it's only $199, or about $40 per license. Quite reasonable. This is important with what I'm about to say next.
----------------
People have commented how Windows Genuine Advantage is really Microsoft's Discount Program.
Get a pirated version, go ahead and validate, and boom, you get WinXP Pro for only $149 instead of $299.
It's the difference of half a month's salary for an entry-level administrative position here. Or a whole month's difference for a teacher. Definitely not to be ignored. Of course, still a hard sell compared to a $3.50 bootleg openly sold in the department stores here. And people in Western countries wonder why piracy is so high and even expected in Asia. Heck, it's actually easier to buy pirated software than it is to buy legit software here.
bakerstreet
Reply #19 Thursday, July 28, 2005 3:31 AM
Hmmm. Well, wouldn't they need a connection to download the patch? If they buy the patch on CD, wouldn't it just activate the same way the OS does for people without connections?
Take a look. Your OS talks to your monitor. If it doesn't detect that standard, it simply doesn't play media flagged to require it, or plays it at a seriously reduced level. Your only option is to get copies without the DRM flag, which I assume they are going to keep you from making with the hardware DRM.
If you have all the right information, they'll even give you a copy for free. ( Link )In order to get it free:
Otherwise, you have to pay the 99$ or $149 and still submit a report:
I suppose you could just copy it and claim you bought it from a fake name and address. I don't think $100 is worth the chance of getting caught, though.
Reply #19 Thursday, July 28, 2005 3:31 AM
| "Will never happen. You're forgetting not everyone has internet, especially for something like Windows used all over the world, and thus MS can't force people to activate online, and most of the cracks make use of the activate through non-online means anyhow." |
Hmmm. Well, wouldn't they need a connection to download the patch? If they buy the patch on CD, wouldn't it just activate the same way the OS does for people without connections?
| "Can you say imports? Until prices come down to levels reasonable for 3rd world countries, you can't really succeed at global hardware controls, unless you start mass banning hardware imports, which would probably have political and economic repercussions. Big as your economy is, it won't be easy becoming isolated from most of the Asian market." |
Take a look. Your OS talks to your monitor. If it doesn't detect that standard, it simply doesn't play media flagged to require it, or plays it at a seriously reduced level. Your only option is to get copies without the DRM flag, which I assume they are going to keep you from making with the hardware DRM.
| "Get a pirated version, go ahead and validate, then get the discounted version of the same product. ($149 vs. $299 for Win XP Pro is quite a big discount)" |
If you have all the right information, they'll even give you a copy for free. ( Link )In order to get it free:
| "Customers will be required to submit a proof of purchase, their counterfeit CD, and complete a counterfeit report with details of their purchase. Only high-quality counterfeit Windows will qualify for the complimentary offer." |
Otherwise, you have to pay the 99$ or $149 and still submit a report:
| "The counterfeit report helps Microsoft identify the reseller and type of counterfeit software transaction that took place. The information that is required on the report is as follows: was the copy of Windows preinstalled, where was it purchased (Web, street vendor, store, etc), reseller name, did you receive a CD and a Certificate of Authenticity (COA), price paid, and date of purchase. The customer must also provide their shipping address so Microsoft can send them a Windows Genuine Advantage Kit for Windows XP CD." |
I suppose you could just copy it and claim you bought it from a fake name and address. I don't think $100 is worth the chance of getting caught, though.
Dracil
Reply #20 Thursday, July 28, 2005 3:51 AM
What I meant is that people will download it somewhere with a nice connection (like work), then burn it and take it home to install. If it can be activated at work, then it's kinda moot, since you can activate it on a legit OS and then take it to a pirated OS. If the act of installing requires an internet connection at home, then they would never be able to actually install the patch at home and I think this is something Microsoft wants to avoid (hence the phone activation in Windows and other software). But if it can be activated without going past the MS server, then people will be able to find a way around it like they do now.
Ah, that's actually interesting. I suppose this is good for MS haters, as it'll probably make these countries push for using open source OSes more quickly.
Reply #20 Thursday, July 28, 2005 3:51 AM
| Hmmm. Well, wouldn't they need a connection to download the patch? If they buy the patch on CD, wouldn't it just activate the same way the OS does for people without connections? |
What I meant is that people will download it somewhere with a nice connection (like work), then burn it and take it home to install. If it can be activated at work, then it's kinda moot, since you can activate it on a legit OS and then take it to a pirated OS. If the act of installing requires an internet connection at home, then they would never be able to actually install the patch at home and I think this is something Microsoft wants to avoid (hence the phone activation in Windows and other software). But if it can be activated without going past the MS server, then people will be able to find a way around it like they do now.
| Take a look. Your OS talks to your monitor. If it doesn't detect that standard, it simply doesn't play media flagged to require it, or plays it at a seriously reduced level. Your only option is to get copies without the DRM flag, which I assume they are going to keep you from making with the hardware DRM. |
Ah, that's actually interesting. I suppose this is good for MS haters, as it'll probably make these countries push for using open source OSes more quickly.
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Reply #1 Tuesday, July 26, 2005 8:28 AM