The Register's take on Yahoo and Konfabulator
Not everyone thinks it's good
Monday, July 25, 2005 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize News
The Register was the first web publication to cover DesktopX way back in late 1999. Needless to say, they haven't been quite as supportive of the tendancy of Konfabulator's advocates to imply that Konfabulator invented the widget concept.
The Register's first article on DesktopX from June 2000 can be found here.
OK, so it's scriptable eye candy on steroids, but given its potential, and coming when it does, we predict that things are going to get quite interesting very soon. Base camp for DesktopX is to recreate the funky effects LiteStep and Apple's Aqua promise - like animated desktop icons, but Wardell tells The Register a trivial next step is to get email hooked into a Windows 2000 text to speech engine. Equally DesktopX object could grab the current weather from the web and display is as an object.
Prior to Yahoo's acquisition, Konfabulator was $19.95. Once downloaded, users could make use of the hundreds of Konfabulator widgets found on their website. Yahoo has created a new site at widgets.yahoo.com. It's now a free download.
Stardock, who makes DesktopX, released DesktopX 3.1 last week, has a version that enables widget authors to export their creations as gadgets. Gadgets are like stand-alone programs. They require no additional download and maintain the advantages of widgets -- small file size, typically light on resources, etc.
The question many users have is how the "widget wars" will progress with this latest move by Yahoo. How will it affect DesktopX, Kapsules, Samurize, Avedesk and other widget enablers? Will widgets become more popular or as some have begun asserting, are widgets an overhyped concept that are about to be shown as such now that one of them has been given such a high profile distribution?
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Reply #2 Monday, July 25, 2005 7:18 PM
Reply #3 Monday, July 25, 2005 7:26 PM
As for Osopolar's comments, it's obvious he's easily confused by buzzword/buzzmoves.
Either Stardock has grudges against Konfabulator, or they're trying to be pointing fun at The Register.
Reply #4 Monday, July 25, 2005 8:51 PM
Reply #5 Monday, July 25, 2005 9:43 PM
I'll admit that Konfab has some great widgets. I just saw a widget for my Mom to use (Mega Millions Lotto) and I am going to install Konfabulator on my sisters computer (of which also my Mom uses).
I know DX can do it, but I currently do not have the knowledge to make some of the things I want, plus I have not finished some of my schooling on VB, VB.NET, and Javascript.
I think this whole thing will end up being a short winfall for Yahoo, but eventually go the way of Sonque (spell?) and in some ways like WinAmp. I think Yahoo's main goal here is to get people interested into Yahoo's API's as people are interested in Googles (for example the 'mash-up between Google Maps and Craigslist).
I think THAT is the big news for Yahoo, not the survival of Konfabulator in the future; they want the widget developers! If they get more out of it, like Yahoo's Flikr photo images, Yahoo 360 blogging or My Yahoo homepage development, the better. Imagine being able to tag searches (using Flikr's tagging ability), then blogging about it, then sending it to friends and family on a personal widget.
But I digress; the main reason for this purchase is to get at those freelance developers and coding enthusists, not Konfabulator. (Keep in mind that Mac people also have the graphic artists, can be more loyal, and spend more money per person tha PC users, so now Yahoo has moved in on PC and Mac in one stroke)
Reply #7 Monday, July 25, 2005 10:25 PM
Reply #8 Monday, July 25, 2005 10:30 PM
Also note:
Yahoo owns or operates Flikr (a photo sharing site), Yahoo 360 (of which is a blogging service), My Yahoo personal webpages, MusicMatch JukeBox (a music player), so by getting Konfabulator, they can make the coolest widgets in the world! From music playing to videos from the latest superstar to showing off your pictures to family to blogging to searching to tagging (the reason why, some speculate, that Yahoo purchased Flikr is because of the technology behind users 'tagging' items to make it easier to search). Can you imaging super widgets that connect directly to these apps or even become mini-apps of these web based services?
Maybe even a search app like Google but skinnable?
I still think Yahoo did this mainly to get people interested in its API's. It wanted lead users and developers to play around with its products and services as well as its API's so that it can somehow challenge Google's free geek developer manpower (IE Google Maps - Craistlist's Housing).
Konfabulator can crash and burn, but Yahoo gets those lead users.
Reply #9 Tuesday, July 26, 2005 5:33 AM
Reply #10 Tuesday, July 26, 2005 7:25 AM
Netscape Navigator vs. Internet Explorer (Windows 95)
Kaleidoscope vs. Appearance Control Panel (Mac OS 9)
Internet Explorer vs. Firefox
Konfabulator vs. Widgits (Mac OS 10.4 - Tiger)
I think the handwriting was on the wall for Konfabulator unless they did something as radical as being swallowed by a bigger fish. Now they have a chance to get a bigger distribution push. And by being cross-platform (PC & Mac)- they have the opportunity to grab users in both camps. That's gonna make it tough on everyone else - how do you compete with someone who is multi-platform and giving the stuff away?
Yeah, they could end up like Sonique - in eternal development hell. Or like Winamp - with the developers jumping ship since being aquired by AOL. Only time will tell...
Reply #11 Tuesday, July 26, 2005 7:46 AM
| how do you compete with someone who is multi-platform and giving the stuff away? |
You make a better proggy....easy-peasy....
Reply #12 Tuesday, July 26, 2005 9:13 AM
Reply #13 Tuesday, July 26, 2005 9:39 AM
| I can say the same in DesktopX's gallery as well, WickedP. As for Osopolar's comments, it's obvious he's easily confused by buzzword/buzzmoves. Either Stardock has grudges against Konfabulator, or they're trying to be pointing fun at The Register. |
BTW, Xira, I read your post over on Konfabulator.com. I was going to respond there but they have a tendancy to remove posts they don't like.
I have nothing against Konfabulator. I was using it long before you I suspect. I was one of the people strongly defending Konfabulator's innovation during the Dashboard incident.
But the problem with Konfabulator is that Arlo Rose, like the Register article points out, likes to take credit for things that have nothing to do with him.
For example: http://www.konfabulator.com/cartoon/partFour.html
"It was the coolest thing anyone who had ever used it had ever seen on their desktops.."
By the time Konfabulator came out, DesktopX was 3 years old. And while I'm as keen on weather monitors, stock tickers, web cams and clocks as the next guy, I suspect anyone who had ever used DesktopX, let alone Object Desktop, had seen a lot cooler stuff than Konfabulator.
Konfabulator has been out 2 years now and still doesn't have any native animation support. DesktopX in 2000 still has more features than Konfabulator does today. I'm not arguing that DesktopX is "better" than Konfabulator. But I think it was pretty tacky for Arlo to make the bold claim how cool and original Konfabulator was at release. He seems to have that typical Mac attitude that if it doesn't exist on the Mac, it doesn't exist at all.
According to Arlo's own page: http://www.konfabulator.com/cartoon/partOne.html We even had the IDEA for mini-applets on the desktop. The idea for DesktopX was born in February of 1996 shortly after seeing IBM's OpenDoc based desktop. We thought "Cool, if people could build their own desktops with real objects, they could add all kinds of functionality to it." By the time Arlo was even thinking of Konfabulator we were already in pre-production.
Then in http://www.konfabulator.com/cartoon/partTwo.html he talks about how no one was interested in creating something like this between 1999 and 2001. By this point, DesktopX had been released and been downloaded over a million times just on CNET's Download.com alone and had been featured in countless magazines.
Arlo deserves credit for two things in my book: 1) He coined the term "widget" to describe these mini-applications. We were using the term "object" which was apparently too generic. And 2) He demonstrated the importance of including really REALLY slick examples with the default install. And there's actually a third, more dubious item he deserves credit: 3) If you claim something loudly enough, often enough, people in the media will believe it.
As for Konfabulator being bought by Yahoo. I think it's a mixed thing. On the one hand, it may get widgets out there a lot more. But on the other hand, I doubt Yahoo will be anywhere nearly as effective at marketing it as Arlo has been. And I still believe that gadgets are a much better platform than widgets.
So you could say I'm a fan of the program but not as big of a fan of the way they've marketed it. Next time someone complains about Stardock being overly aggressive or whatever in how it "markets" its software, send them over to those Konfabulator cartoon pages or read some of their press releases.
Reply #14 Tuesday, July 26, 2005 10:20 AM
Reply #15 Tuesday, July 26, 2005 1:34 PM
Yahoo! has a history of taking good, marketable ideas and buying them, only to allow them to get lost in the mix. Yahoo! owns a ton of useful applications, but take a look two clicks deep into their site and let me know what they are.
Yahoo! deserves Konfabulator, and vice versa. The target audience for widgets and gadgets isn't my mom, it's me, she would never take the time to find, learn about and use widgets. I, on the other hand, would, but the caveat is that I would also go the extra step and find out which one genuinely meets needs better. Then I would make a decision on the best product that met my needs, not the most marketed one.
Just my $0.02, DesktopX wins again.
Reply #16 Tuesday, July 26, 2005 2:20 PM
But now, Arlo doesn't need to do anything, because Yahoo is a huge machine, and all they have to do to market their product immediately to millions of people is put a link/ad/graphic on their home page and self-plant on-line and magazine articles and reviews that point to it. Regardless of the history or the truth, Mom and Pop computer user will finally hear of "the revolutionary desktop widget concept that Yahoo invented and brought to the masses."
The best news for Stardock (and I love your products guys) is that this may finally force Google's and/or Microsoft's hand with regards to Stardock. I can hear the wheels turning now.
Reply #17 Tuesday, July 26, 2005 3:39 PM
The positive side of DesktopX stuff is that they can be compiled and distributed in stand-alone packages. That's about the only big plus I see at the momemnt, especially given the unstableness of DesktopX that I have seen.
In any case - it should really push the guys at Stardock to kick it up a notch and make their development enviornment easier to use and more features etc... if they want to keep charging for it.
Reply #18 Tuesday, July 26, 2005 8:22 PM
And Limbo, you're talking about the development environment of Desktop X as compared to the development environment of what other application? As far as I know, other widgets programs do NOT have an authoring environement. Just hand scripting in Notepad please... Of course Notepad is stable, but ease of use? Features?? Please... Desktop X is miles ahead.
Reply #19 Tuesday, July 26, 2005 10:48 PM
DesktopX beats it hands down for versatility and practical ability.
Furthermore, the widgets available on the home page are limited in that most apply only to US cities and etc, which offers little to O/S users in countries like australia, etc.
And before somebody says: " Well you could always make your own." not everyone is versatile or experienced enough to script and enable a widget.
Furthermore, If Yahoo bought Konfabulator with good intentions for it, then why have they made it so difficult to find on their site? Since this item came up here on WC, I have returned several times to Yahoo and still haven't found it there. Perhaps the true objective was to acquire the programmers and script writers rather than the program after all
Reply #20 Wednesday, July 27, 2005 8:46 AM
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Reply #1 Monday, July 25, 2005 6:11 PM
...only time will tell.
Wicked.
BTW, based on the widget I see in the k'fab gallery, I see no reason to install it, even if it's "free".