Does Apple get away with things Microsoft could not?

Double standards in the platform wars

Tuesday, May 10, 2005 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize News

Imagine this scenario: Longhorn comes out and Windows Movie Maker, Remote Desktop, and Outlook Express were no longer part of the OS.  Instead, Microsoft included them in a seperate $70 package. And then imagine that Longhorn was essentially a Windows XP Service Pack 3 with a bundled Google Desktop Search like function, a Lite version the DesktopX Run-Time, and a few other niceties.  How do you think people would react? How do you think the media would react?  Probably not with glowing praise.

But that's exactly what has happened with Apple.  A few years ago, Apple was touting MacOS X as the way to make movies and DVDs and manage your photos and other such things. It included a pretty nice DVD making program and a pretty strong movie making program.  But as the latest version of MacOS X shows, Apple has no problem removing significant programs from its OS and charging for them seperately. Some might say that's the ultimate "bait and switch".  Whatever you want to call it, I think most would agree that if Microsoft had done the same thing, there'd probably be something just short of a riot.

That isn't to say MacOS X Tiger isn't a great operating system -- it is.  But while people are fawning praise upon Apple and their OS-making abilities, people also need to take a step back, put down the Steve Jobs brand Kool-Aid and take a serious look at what they're getting for their $129 upgrade.  Of course, any time anyone criticizes Apple or the Mac, even in the most mild form, the Mac zealots come out to vigorously defend it. This in turn makes reasoned discussion a lot more difficult. But one Mac/PC user, Paul Boyer, has written an article that gives his experiences with Tiger.

Paul Boyer, has created countless skins, themes, and of course his incredible packages of icons that have been freely downloaded by millions of people uses his computers as tools to do everything from graphics design to recording TV shows.  And he's just upgraded to MacOS Tiger.  He's not an OS advocate. He's not hard core. He's a more typical, casual consumer. And he's not happy.  While he can appreciate the improvements in Tiger, he also feels he's getting jerked around a bit by Apple. People criticize Microsoft as the evil empire and yet some of the actions Apple takes seem to be pretty bold.  Read the whole article with an open mind and let us know what you think.

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thomassen
Reply #1 Tuesday, May 10, 2005 4:11 PM
Apple users have to pay for non-major upgrades? $129 for OSX 10.3 to OSX 10.4?

NightTrainthedark
Reply #2 Tuesday, May 10, 2005 4:22 PM
Not too long ago, Microsoft office was included with all systems. Now its just trial/student/or mothing is included. MS office is way WAY more than $70.00. So, my answer to yor question would be Yes, Microsoft can get away with it.

Frogboy
Reply #3 Tuesday, May 10, 2005 4:28 PM
MS Office was NEVER bundled as part of Windows.  What OEMs chose to bundle with their computers is a totally different matter.

NightTrainthedark
Reply #4 Tuesday, May 10, 2005 4:33 PM
I stand corrected.
Under the skin though I am sure MS had certain "arrangements" with outside manufacturers to include it in the packages. Dont mind me, I just know that MS has a group of people in an office right now conspiring on new ways to get my money.

Jim Latimer
Reply #5 Tuesday, May 10, 2005 4:40 PM
#1...absolutely...it's been that way for all of the OSX 10.x releases. They paid for 10.0, then 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, 10.4....

Does Apple get away with stuff that MS would be crucified for? Not even a doubt!!!!!

Corky_O
Reply #6 Tuesday, May 10, 2005 4:48 PM
I think Microsoft would indeed get flamed - after all it doesn't take much to prompt MS complaints from average users.

The network administrators I know, really understand MS products and though they feel MS products are a bit expensive (as do I), they do not get rattled when problems arise - they perform educated troubleshooting skills and in almost all cases, find and fix the issue. This speaks well toward identifying positive things created by Microsoft.

Though I have little to no experience with Mac's, I do know they have been a trademark graphics computer, and they seem to handle those functions really well. Beyond that, I do not know much about their stability in a complicated network, or capabilities in handling systems on a global level.

I remember using Office 4.2 when I got my first computer (along with Windows 3.1), and can at least say that the Office XP I currently have, blows away the old 4.2 product.

I would see this as a real step towards improving a product.

I would expect no less from Mac in removing a program or suite of programs from the OS, and charging for it.

I garner from Paul's article, that Mac is tending to follow a lot of manufacturers in offering some improvements, while removing other components that used to be included. I work in Quality Control in the manufacturing industry, so have a bit of experience in seeing this trend.

Perhaps this type of marketing will actually provide some common ground for both camps.

A good thought provoking article done by Mormegil, IMHO.

craeonics
Reply #7 Tuesday, May 10, 2005 5:11 PM
Hmm, I'd welcome a stripped down XP.

OldTexas
Reply #8 Tuesday, May 10, 2005 5:15 PM
No one cares. The only people who use Macs are whacko vegatarians and parasitic government employees who cannot find an honest job. Why even comment on Macs?

Woodbridge
Reply #9 Tuesday, May 10, 2005 5:23 PM
I thought people were all for removing bloat from programs & OS's

Woodbridge runs

thomassen
Reply #10 Tuesday, May 10, 2005 5:50 PM
They paid for 10.0, then 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, 10.4

Has it been like that for the pre X versions as well?

I'm just thinking, I'd be pretty annoyed to pay for Service Packs for Windows. Though, I realize that these OSX versions are more than service packs, they are still not a major upgrade. Still the same version number, just another revision number. Just came to think of something while I wrote this... Windows 2000 was version 5, and Windows XP is version 5.1. I suppose it's the same then...

Hus
Reply #11 Tuesday, May 10, 2005 6:21 PM
Apple get's away with murder...it's not even a question. They rip off their own 3rd-party developers...and bundled it with their OS. If Microsoft did the same thing...they would get sued for being a monopoly. Oh...wait...Microsoft made their OWN program...bundled it with the OS and got sued for being a monopoly...

Archangel_Douglas
Reply #12 Tuesday, May 10, 2005 6:38 PM
exactly as Hus said: apples prob. doing this to avoid being sued/taken to court for monopolising their other products with their OS (though with MS, some of the stuff you get with windows isnt that great next to a commercial product, or that some of the "rival" software out there isnt as good as what comes free with Windows... <cough-realplayer-cough>)

jtfolden
Reply #13 Tuesday, May 10, 2005 7:15 PM
OS X has NEVER included a DVD making program. I assume you're referring to iDVD and this has always been a separate app, no more a part of OS X than AppleWorks. I do have to say I was not surprised to see that iMovie and iPhoto were not shipped with Tiger as they were with Panther. The versions included with the OS have usually been outdated releases the last couple of years anyway. As well, neither app started out being bundled with the OS so I guess Apple can do as they please. iPhoto used to be a free download but, IIRC, iMovie was something like $20 before they began tossing it in. Panther users didn't get free copies of iLife 04 so I wasn't expecting Tiger users to get iLife 05.

The bottom line is that no one really 'loses' these apps, though. They can be re-installed from the Restore CDs/DVD that came with the Mac originally, or the "iLife" CD, that is included with Macs of a recent vintage.


...and to compare OS X 10.4 with a Service Pack is just laughable, I'm sorry but it is. Is XP just a service pack for Windows 2000 and that just a service pack to NT4? Was Win98 or WinME just a service pack for Win95? Each major release of OS X has had quite a few FREE 'service packs' of their own. 10.3 users have received 9 of them, so far. I think 10.2 had 8 of them and 10.1 had 5 or so...

Personally, I think Tiger is the best release of OS X yet, by far. I was not overly excited about Panther AT ALL... and certainly wasn't excited to plunk down money for it but I was more than happy to fork over the cash for 10.4 and I haven't been disappointed.

jtfolden
Reply #14 Tuesday, May 10, 2005 7:19 PM
Actually Douglas, I think part of the reason Apple is doing this is because the iLife suite is on a 12 month upgrade cycle and OS X is now on a 18-24 month cycle, supposedly. There have been two new releases of the iLife apps between 10.3 in 2003 and 10.4 in 2005 neither of which were free to Panther users.

paxx
Reply #15 Tuesday, May 10, 2005 9:21 PM
All right, I just looked it up on Apple's store cause it was bugging me. Macs have always marketed to new users how much when you buy a Mac you have everything you need, simple and easy to use, right out of the box. So, I wsa thinking, how can they remove iLife? Well, I stand corrected. iLife may not be shipped as part of the OS if you buy the OS seperately, but it seems to be included with every purchase of a new Mac, as well as AppleWorks (a sortof Office kinda suite). So, indeed, new Apple users still get pretty much everything they need right out of the box.

mrbiotech
Reply #16 Wednesday, May 11, 2005 12:48 AM
Just wondering if market-share has anything to do with the fact that Apple gets away with more- it's still outright tiny compared to the MicroSoft giant. People will always attack the big-dog, it's a bigger target.

jtfolden
Reply #17 Wednesday, May 11, 2005 2:19 AM
paxx: Yes, Apple have not changed their bundling methods. OS X has never shipped with the complete iLife suite, anyway, nor AppleWorks...but all the consumer model hardware ships with the above plus quite a few 3rd party apps.

The only bundling hole is on their "Pro" machines, actually... no Appleworks or iWork, just a MS Office Test Drive.

PixelPirate
Reply #18 Wednesday, May 11, 2005 2:22 AM
I just spoke with a colleague of mine, a Mac user through more than 15 years. He says he has every OSX box at home: 10.0 - 10.1 - 10.2 - 10.3 and now 10.4. Not in one of them is iLife included, they never did include it according to him. If you buy a Mac with the OS pre-installed, you are most likely to have iLife installed though.

Eroticus Prime
Reply #19 Wednesday, May 11, 2005 2:32 AM
10.1 was a free update..

And just because the version number doesn't change hugely doesn't mean the OS doesn't.

TexasJoe
Reply #20 Wednesday, May 11, 2005 3:29 AM
hallelujah Brad! though some details might be inaccurate, it says it all: Apple does get away with stuff MS couldn't possibly consider doing.
XP is not a service pack to 2000 Pro. "Version 5" only serves to remind that both are built on a similar NT5-core (NTFS + networking tools)!
Longhorn will be Windows version 6.0 since it incorporates new core technologies.
Anyhow why bother talking about an OS that won't let y'all play games or let ya do what you want and not what Lord Steve Jobs thought he'd let y'all do?

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