Konfabulator Kicking DesktopX's widget butt
Ouch!
Thursday, January 27, 2005 by Frogboy | Discussion: Community
Don't let it be said that I don't tell the truth when it comes to looking at the customization market. In the battle of widgets, Konfabulator is kicking DesktopX's butt.
But as a Konfabulator fan, I can live with that. It's a superb program with a really top notch team. It deserves success a lot more than say some company that cranks out a $20 program that patches a byte of memory on a bundled Windows system file. ![]()
Though in the larger scheme of things, widgets have not panned out as being quite as big of a deal (at this point) as we had hoped. No customization app, of any kind, has gotten Konfabulator's attention in the mainstream media. But the download counts just aren't there. Konfabulator widgets get typically 2k downloads. And mind you, this is wiping the floor with everyone else. I.e. 10X what DesktopX widgets are getting which in turn gets more than the others we can measure. By contrast, a decent WindowBlinds skin can expect 20k users to download it.
So putting aside the problem with widgets in general, let's go back to why DesktopX is losing the battle of widgets.
#1 Stardock has failed at marketing DesktopX effectively. I mean at a very basic level - getting the program into the hands of columnists, editors, etc. Robert X. Cringely, who wrote about Konfabulator, had never heard of DesktopX and he's about as much of an industrial insider as you can get (he made "Triumph of the Nerds" and wrote "Accidental Empires").
So before people arm-chair quarterback DesktopX product management, the fact is, unless people who write about software get the program to use in the first place, they won't have the opportunity to complain about any documentation faults or that the widgets aren't sexy enough or that the website is too confusing or that the UI is confusing or whatever.
#2 DesktopX's biggest strength is its biggest marketing disadvantage. To USE Konfabulator you just load it up and start loading widgets and they work great. Very simple. Want to create a widget? Well... very different thing. You do it outside the program using text editors and put things together by pixel.
By contrast, in DesktopX, the content creation portion is part of the program. It's easy to create and modify stuff.
So how is this a disadvantage? First: It makes DesktopX seem more complicated than it is. Second: It means even the most casual, unskilled skinner can crank out yet another weather widget and upload it.
#3 DesktopX's breadth works against it. DesktopX isn't mostly used for widgets. It's used for DESKTOPS. In the past month, only ONE DesktopX related item showed up in the top 50. It was MediaCenter desktop.
In fact, the most popular DesktopX object got more downloads than the top DesktopX widget. And unfortunatley that brings up our next problem.
#4 Objects and widgets confuse people. At some point we may have to put more guidlines on uploading. DesktopX objects are supposed to be basically glorified icons and such. If there's functionality involved, they should be widgets. But the whole thing is vague and confusing thus splitting the commuinty up further. There's no easy solution to this because having objects is the only thing that keeps the widget library, already filled with a gazillion weather widgets, from also having a gazillion little animated icon type things.
#5 DesktopX does not include a full fledged suite of consistent looking widgets. There is the core set. But despite the great work Paul (Mormegil) did on these, I don't think they're as good as the Konfabulator defaults and there aren't as many. There needs to be some more "themes" of DesktopX widgets.
#6 DesktopX lacks a motivated development community. The docs for DesktopX are good. I'm sorry but anyone complaining about DesktopX development docs isn't someone I'm going to take very seriously. I've had years of experience looking at this stuff and DX's docs are quite good. Any strong skinning community needs at least 12 active content creators. DesktopX has perhaps 5. Konfabulator has around 16 regular authors. Stardock needs to find a way to get more peple to make interesting stuff for DesktopX.
Given that it is much much easier to create widgets for DesktopX, one has to ask, why was the UPS widget done for Konfab first when it would have been much easier to do under DesktopX? The DX community just isn't organized or motivated.
These 6 things are the main problems I see with DesktopX.
Stardock, at some point, is going ot have to decide whether it should focus on trying to sell DesktopX or sell DesktopX generated content. Aquarium Desktop and Natural Desktop are both made with DesktopX. They've made tens of thousands of dollars in revenue.
So if Stardock continues to fail to encourage the community to create DesktopX content, then the other possibility would be to sell premium content developed by Stardock or Stardock partners. After all, are people really buying Konfab or DesktopX because of the idea of widgets or because they want to put cool looking mini programs on their desktop? If it's the latter, why not just sell users the actual widgets in stand alone form and start looking at DesktopX itself as more of a SkinStudio type platform for developers?
So over the coming months, Stardock is going to have to decide how it can address the 6 issues i mentioned above (for starters) or it's going to have to change the rules and go a different direction (i.e. have a DesktopX run-time that's purely for users and a DesktopX Builder for those who want to create stuff).
Reply #2 Thursday, January 27, 2005 7:09 AM
I think this is really interesting as i have had the idea for several widgets..
1. FedEx/Ups/Dhl/USPS Tracking widget
2. a RSS Feed reader to trak "my skins" on wincustomize - ie, just a window that would update every 5-10 mins and show "my skins" info from this site.
3. a latest skins window that would be able to show the newest skins, either ones that would be in a perticular cat or all cats.
4. how about a forum tracker?
Ok there are my ideas, how do we make them reality? What is the procedure to go thru to find out how to make these?
I have bugged Martin to death, and im sure he is sick of me by now, but he has been great when i have asked him questions. The problem is i feel really bad bugging him. I have even posted 2 of these to this very forum https://www.wincustomize.com/Forums.aspx?ForumID=188&AID=61306&cmd=myposts#487532 on the 15th of this month, and had 1 single reply "That'd be great!". No help from any other DX user, no input from anyone from wincustomize.com, and so these widgets had been just put on hold.
I think there are tons of widgets that could be used to help keep track of so many things, etc, but it seems to me all anyone wants in a DX Widget is the following:
1. Clock
2. Weather app
3. Drive Space Meter
4. CPU meter
5. Mail Checker - which SUCKS by the way - sorry stardock people, but that plugin is crap.
6. Calculator
Ok maybe even an RSS feed reader.
We need a REAL DX Help area, DX could be made SO dang much better, but without help, how can us "newbies" figure out what can and CANT be done with DX.
I have a new Dock that is waiting on a fix to the system tray background mess, that no longer works. SO there is another app sitting in my que that cant be finished

Reply #3 Thursday, January 27, 2005 11:37 AM
Back to DesktopX. The points you've made are on the mark and it appears you already know what you need to do. Just to expand a bit on the user vs. builder versions idea....
1. DesktopX ain't no Konfabulator and it'll never be one, for many of the reasons you've already cited. No one every said that the best product always wins out. Look at VHS vs. Betamax...Apple vs. PC...Hyundai(what's up with that). So let DesktopX just be what it is.
2. Build a DesktopX app. call it DX or whatever you want, but have it do one thing only. Just like Konfabulator...run widgets. No more, no less, no objects, no desktop environments, just widgets and sell it for $9.95 and market the hell out of it.
3. Get rid of the freeware version of DesktopX and let the new DX app be your entry level app. Free and unrestricted for 30days and then someone has to either buy it for $9.95, buy DesktopX, if the want to be able to build their own widgets, objects and desktop environments or buy Object Desktop which includes DesktopX.
That's all I got.
Reply #4 Thursday, January 27, 2005 11:52 AM
AN entry level DX app that just runs widgets. Call it DXinantor, Widgetron_DX, or something equally as corny as Konfabulator. 
Reply #5 Thursday, January 27, 2005 12:06 PM

Reply #6 Thursday, January 27, 2005 12:26 PM
Yea, I hang out on IRC. The other night I got "suggestions" that had already been done. (you let peple sort widgets that have been featured, you should link to the widget library from DesktopX.net, you should have documentation on the scripting, you need to make the website look better).
As for how to make things like a UPS tracker, that's not going to be in the docs. It's up to people to figure out how to do that. The Konfabulator community goes out and figures out how to do it even though it's harder to do on Konfabulator.
DesktopX has to appeal to more developers -- people woh will figure out how the UPS stuff will work or (ideally) come up with their own stuff.
Reply #8 Thursday, January 27, 2005 1:07 PM
Reply #10 Thursday, January 27, 2005 1:36 PM
Oh well... This is my point, can anyone point me in the right direction, and i dont need directions to some really hot places i've been told to go there enough i have a HOV lane now.
Reply #11 Thursday, January 27, 2005 1:48 PM
i really don't know

Reply #13 Thursday, January 27, 2005 3:54 PM
"...When a problem comes along
You must widge it
Before the cream sits out too long
You must widge it
When something’s going wrong
You must widge it..." - Devo
And now we return you to your regular broadcast...
| DesktopX has to appeal to more developers -- people woh will figure out how the UPS stuff will work or (ideally) come up with their own stuff. |
How to appeal to more developers and kick Konfabulator's butt in the process....Banging on a lot of doors, a place in the sun with a whole lotta fun, a big stinkin' fat carrot and a much needed ass kickin'.
Banging on a lot of doors....
You take an avid Stardock/WC advocate, like NightTrain for example, give him an ODNT subscription or Update and a WC subscription for his efforts and send him to the local universities. He could hit places like MIT, BU, BC, etc. since he's in Massachusetts and you have him distribute (someone in college or having been to college will have to correct me here on where or how this "distribution" could actually be done) on campuses, computer studies, graphics design areas, etc. a so-called "Battle of The Widgets" challenge.
A place in the sun and a whole lotta fun....
Find some young...free-spirited....free thinking web designer to whip up a site, that isn't as stodgy (sorry it is, but I love it and I'm 41, so you can see where I'm coming from here) as WC, for teams to sign-up (College ID required), get a complimentary copy of DesktopX and post their works. Set rules, open to college students only, teams of two....one coder and one graphics designer. Judges would be the best DX coders and graphics design people you have right now in the community.
A big stinkin' fat carrot....
Grand prize 2 wicked nice Dell laptops loaded with Stardock software. Winners take all losers go home to their mommies.
Time for a much needed ass kick'n...do you feel lucky punk...well do ya?
At the same time this is going on. You start pushing the 30-day shareware then $9.95 copies of a Widget Only DX through every available resource and channel you have. You distribute burned copies too and include a widget that that links to the contest site and keeps you updated with new entries, etc.
Conclusion...
You're creating the market for your product and at the same time you're bringing in fresh new developer talent and ideas and savoring the fact that you got to openin' up a can of Whoopass on Konfabulator.
Damn....I should've been on the Apprentice. Look out Donald Trump, You're fired.

Reply #15 Thursday, January 27, 2005 6:38 PM
Brad Wardell....Stardock
Bill Gates and Paul Allen....Microsoft
Larry Page and Sergey Brin....Google
Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak....Apple
Reply #16 Thursday, January 27, 2005 7:27 PM
but anyway just a ideal
if you should decide to do this give everybody info sheet what they need to know this community is big enough,smart enough and creative enough to put us back on top just supply the info and help if needed and the prize big enough and worthy enough and we will be no. 1 again. Do some research ask your widget makers there problems or downfalls make these a + fix it so people can take it and run!! btw i havent seento many widget classes have you

Reply #17 Thursday, January 27, 2005 8:01 PM
. Such tv shows often review new or less-heard-of programs and open them up to a larger audience. Now I'm not sure as to how a company would get there stuff on such a show, it may be more difficult than I would think it is, but I would think it would be worth a try.Hope it helps.
Reply #18 Thursday, January 27, 2005 8:02 PM
. Such tv shows often review new or less-heard-of programs and open them up to a larger audience. Now I'm not sure as to how a company would get there stuff on such a show, it may be more difficult than I would think it is, but I would think it would be worth a try.Hope it helps.
Reply #19 Friday, January 28, 2005 1:56 AM
I'm sorry, I love DX widgets but I just don't have the time to learn how to create them - no matter how simple. Just not enough time. However, I can d/l the bejeesus out of them

Some suggestions that I'd like to see:
A clock that displays more than 1 time zone at once (for folks who work with multiple timze zones)
A link to a cartoon (for me Penny Arcade would be cool - it downloads the latest cartoon when it's posted.
Perhaps a website checker - load your top websites into it and it prompts with a green light when the page is updated. Click on it to go to the webpage
A timer (my wife is always resetting the microwave clock to use as a timer).
Seperate widgets for Shutdown, Restart & Logoff
There are some really great widgets out there (idea-wise):
The sticky notes
the desktop calendars (although I really like Rainlendar's implementation a lot)
The currenty converter
the RSS readers
All good ideas, now if we could just get some other folks to modify those a little as much as we get the weather widgets modified. I can only assume it's easier to modify the weather widget than some of the others (especially compared to creating one from scratch).
I agree that a program solely for widgets would be a good idea. I have DesktopX installed just for widgets.
lastly, look at applications such as Beatnik & Rainlendar - they have a bunch of skins. However, the clocks & calendars aren't changed very much within DX widgets.
Also, an avenue to think about for widgets is - as dull as it is - tools that can be used on the average worker's desktop. Ping tools, calendars, clocks, sticky notes, notepads, weather, website checkers, IM status indicator, mail checker... the kinds of things that you could use while at work.
Just some thoughts. I really like the widgets. Thanks to all the authors out there making the ones that are up now. Great work.
Reply #20 Friday, January 28, 2005 9:26 AM
I have only had it installed for about 1-2 hours and I am already looking to just remove it. DesktopX makes creating a new widget so dang easy, its just add new object, tell it what to do, use it. I HATE having to open some stupid text editor move files, etc just to TRY and make something. I see this as a MAJOR + for DX. I agree that about 90% of the people that download a program like DX or Konfab want to just load an app and run it, but i am in the 10% that needs to get in there and rip things apart to see how they work.
Just my 2 cents.
Now Stardock PLEASE get DX working again.. Its all messed up now! - go back to the last WORKING version!!
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Reply #1 Thursday, January 27, 2005 5:11 AM
easier for users i think.....and that's very important imo.
and always try to get the attention from people....you don't wanna
force it to people, but maybe just a little....
this is the only site where i ever hear something about desktopx....