Tsunami widget...FOR KONFABULATOR!
We're losers! Loooosseerrrs!
Sunday, January 23, 2005 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Let's get this question out of the way now:
Is Konfabulator better than DesktopX for the creation and usage of widgets?
I don't think it is. I *like* Konfabulator but it's not nearly as easy to create widgets for and the final widgets are .widget files and not EXEs like they are in DesktopX. Its default widgets ARE more polished than the typical DesktopX widget for sure.
But we're getting our butts kicked by Konfabulator. At least in terms of market share now. I'm not sure where we're going wrong. But we're going wrong somewhere. It's not in features that's for sure. If anything, we have too many features. And DesktopX costs less, doesn't time out and doesn't have a nag screen.
And it's in a positive cycle now. Robert X. Cringely wrote a terrific article about emergency systems using Konfabulator as part of his solution. Some students read it, write the app and contact their local newspaper. Newpaper runs it and pretty soon it's picked up everywhere: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=20631
Somewhere, something has gone wrong. I've been reading the riot act to our PR agency for months. I think perhaps it's time get a new PR firm since they haven't managed to get any stories going.
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PixelPirate
Reply #2 Sunday, January 23, 2005 6:30 PM
Reply #2 Sunday, January 23, 2005 6:30 PM
I think if more coders and graphic artists join forces on making widgets, like the case is with modern Winamp skins, DX would appeal more to a broader audience.
I wouldn't mind joining forces with someone to create awesome widgets
I wouldn't mind joining forces with someone to create awesome widgets
Frogboy
Reply #3 Sunday, January 23, 2005 6:50 PM
Reply #3 Sunday, January 23, 2005 6:50 PM
Ah that's it. I'll press the "bring attention to DesktopX" button. Why didn't I think of that before!
xvolution
Reply #4 Sunday, January 23, 2005 6:54 PM
I have to agree with that. There are plenty of good coders out there who can't work a paint brush. And there are graphical geniuses who don't know anything about coding.
We should all become one big happy family.
Reply #4 Sunday, January 23, 2005 6:54 PM
I have to agree with that. There are plenty of good coders out there who can't work a paint brush. And there are graphical geniuses who don't know anything about coding.
We should all become one big happy family.
jier
Reply #5 Sunday, January 23, 2005 6:55 PM
Reply #5 Sunday, January 23, 2005 6:55 PM
DesktopX is by far the easiest to make widgets for.. hands down no doubt about it.
it also has many more features and is able to do a whole lot more than the others can as well.. I dont get it.
it also has many more features and is able to do a whole lot more than the others can as well.. I dont get it.
Tiggz
Reply #6 Sunday, January 23, 2005 7:01 PM
Reply #6 Sunday, January 23, 2005 7:01 PM
I love dx, I am a staunch user and developer of widgets...or at least I have been until the last couple of months. The present build basically just doesn't work properly. I could roll back to an earlier non-alpha version but I would lose alot of ground on my current projects which rely on the newest version. My fault really for updating to the newest pre-release versions whenever they become available.
Once the new version is finalised and stable I hope there will be an increase in development. Until then I think alot of people will remain wary of dx. If you look through the forums you can find quite a number of threads about widgets not working due to dx updates. Personally, I am dying to get back to developing some of my widgets, but until I know they will be useable by the majority of people I am concentrating on other projects.
Once the new version is finalised and stable I hope there will be an increase in development. Until then I think alot of people will remain wary of dx. If you look through the forums you can find quite a number of threads about widgets not working due to dx updates. Personally, I am dying to get back to developing some of my widgets, but until I know they will be useable by the majority of people I am concentrating on other projects.
andr3ww
Reply #7 Sunday, January 23, 2005 7:05 PM
Reply #7 Sunday, January 23, 2005 7:05 PM
Well if its simply a marketing thing...
Rebrand the bugger with a name that people just *have* to find out about. Send out some free widgets to major companies which have huge media exposure, both in the stand alone exe format and bundled with the installer - to show off what it can do.
It seems to me that Konflubulator's media exposure more comes from word of mouth and curiosity about what in the heck the name means... I know that's how I first came about to look into it. I saw it on deskmod and said 'what the heck is this app with the funky name'.
Just an idea.
Ah. I forgot to add... Give it it's own website. Its OWN website, meaning dont share the content of the website with anything else.
Rebrand the bugger with a name that people just *have* to find out about. Send out some free widgets to major companies which have huge media exposure, both in the stand alone exe format and bundled with the installer - to show off what it can do.
It seems to me that Konflubulator's media exposure more comes from word of mouth and curiosity about what in the heck the name means... I know that's how I first came about to look into it. I saw it on deskmod and said 'what the heck is this app with the funky name'.
Just an idea.
Ah. I forgot to add... Give it it's own website. Its OWN website, meaning dont share the content of the website with anything else.
Frogboy
Reply #8 Sunday, January 23, 2005 7:27 PM
Reply #8 Sunday, January 23, 2005 7:27 PM
Andrew - we've been doing that for years. But we seem to get ignored.
I was in Time Magazine this Fall after all, we do know how to market. But for whatever reason, our marketing on DesktopX just doesn't seem to stick.
Here's the problem:
Wired Magazine does big nice article on Konfabulator. (none on DesktopX - we've tried)
Robert X. Cringely, famous columnist reads it (or hears of it from somewhere else) and decides to write an article about how Konfabulator would be ideal for developing a quick little emergency announcement program.
College students in Australia read about it and crank one out using Konfabulator. Local paper publishes story which gets picked up on it.
Here's the problem: IF S&S had gotten the word out on DesktopX Pro, perhaps someone, somewhere along this chain would have realized that DesktopX Pro was a better solution.
You tell me, which is a better solution:
Solution A: Every one who wants to use this Tsunami alert program has to buy Konfabulator, a $25 to run it.
Solution B: College students talk university to buy ONE copy of DesktopX Pro ($499) which lets them export their widget as a stand-alone program so that they can distribute their program world-wide.
andr3ww
Reply #9 Sunday, January 23, 2005 9:31 PM
Reply #9 Sunday, January 23, 2005 9:31 PM
I was under the impression that this wasnt another disucssion on which app it better - any sane person could tell that from 5 minutes using each. That's no rocket science
I had thought you were looking for suggestions and feedback on why Konfabulator may have more 'market appeal' as it were.
I had thought you were looking for suggestions and feedback on why Konfabulator may have more 'market appeal' as it were.
kona0197
Reply #10 Sunday, January 23, 2005 10:27 PM
Well Konfab has the whole "Apple" thing behind it and most people think Apple computers are cool so maybe that has a bearing on why it has more "appeal" ??
Reply #10 Sunday, January 23, 2005 10:27 PM
| I had thought you were looking for suggestions and feedback on why Konfabulator may have more 'market appeal' as it were. |
Well Konfab has the whole "Apple" thing behind it and most people think Apple computers are cool so maybe that has a bearing on why it has more "appeal" ??
sranshaft
Reply #11 Monday, January 24, 2005 1:32 AM
Reply #11 Monday, January 24, 2005 1:32 AM
it's true they do have the "Apple" thing going for them, and yes one could say they are graphically more appealing. but what it comes down to is they just have a wider selection of 'different' things. true, you have to sift your way through the endless array of webcam feeds but beyond that there's everything one can ask for.
where the average user comes here and sees a calendar, a clock, the requisite weather, and some newsfeeds, on Konfabulator's page you have a UPS Tracker, a World of Warcraft server status, a mail checker beyond the basic "you've got mail", a Desktop tuner...each one of these things can't be replicated by what comes standard with the operating system.
i'm all for combining our efforts to produce some killer widgets that will and 'can' compete with what's to offer with Konfabulator. with myself i've tried getting widgets coded but come to that wall as i'm not a programmer. there are plenty of things that can be done with both that haven't been yet. a phone lookup for one (i've got the look up part but can't pull that damn information off in a neat and ordealy fashion). there's an address book and so forth and i'm rambling here but what i'm trying to get at is there neat something to be news worthy before it will be on the news. 'the eagles winning still doesn't count in my book'
---this is just the opinion of one surfing through and stumbling upon konfabulator. i have never used it and will remain with DesktopX as i like the ability to create my own interfaces---
where the average user comes here and sees a calendar, a clock, the requisite weather, and some newsfeeds, on Konfabulator's page you have a UPS Tracker, a World of Warcraft server status, a mail checker beyond the basic "you've got mail", a Desktop tuner...each one of these things can't be replicated by what comes standard with the operating system.
i'm all for combining our efforts to produce some killer widgets that will and 'can' compete with what's to offer with Konfabulator. with myself i've tried getting widgets coded but come to that wall as i'm not a programmer. there are plenty of things that can be done with both that haven't been yet. a phone lookup for one (i've got the look up part but can't pull that damn information off in a neat and ordealy fashion). there's an address book and so forth and i'm rambling here but what i'm trying to get at is there neat something to be news worthy before it will be on the news. 'the eagles winning still doesn't count in my book'
---this is just the opinion of one surfing through and stumbling upon konfabulator. i have never used it and will remain with DesktopX as i like the ability to create my own interfaces---
aufisch
Reply #12 Monday, January 24, 2005 2:12 AM
Reply #12 Monday, January 24, 2005 2:12 AM
Can you make the DesktopX widgets compatible (importable) into the Mac-version of Konfabulator? Or alternatively, can you adapt DesktopX to import the Konfabulator widgets?
Fact 1: Although Mac users in real life make up only a small amount, within Universities Macs rule the field by about 75%.(hence most likely the reason why the "university kid" made it for Konfab.)
Fact 2: Universities are constantly short on money and I am pretty sure this "kid" wouldn't get a single cent to buy a version of DesktopX pro.
Fact 2: Since there is now a Konfabulator version for Windows. A widget written for Konfabulator can be used on both OS. (Although I agree with you a standalone version would be the best way to distribute a thing like that)
The way I see it is that DesktopX is marketed as a part of ObjectDeskop and therefore as a tool to 'visually' customise your Desktop. Additionally, themes and widgets for it are hosted on a customisation site whose visitors are often excellent skinners, but only a few of them are good coders as well.
Konfabulator on the other hand was marketed as "the wonderful program, with which you can produce really cool stuff and it looks good on top of it". This may have attracted a broader base of coders and might be the reason why their widgets are more diverse.
Maybe DesktopX really needs its own website with its own visitor-base. Get DesktopX away from the customisation label and get it into the 'developper'-toolbox. I think even though DesktopX might be the better product, it is not taken seriously by its customers and mostly just seen as a program that makes your Desktop look pretty.
Fact 1: Although Mac users in real life make up only a small amount, within Universities Macs rule the field by about 75%.(hence most likely the reason why the "university kid" made it for Konfab.)
Fact 2: Universities are constantly short on money and I am pretty sure this "kid" wouldn't get a single cent to buy a version of DesktopX pro.
Fact 2: Since there is now a Konfabulator version for Windows. A widget written for Konfabulator can be used on both OS. (Although I agree with you a standalone version would be the best way to distribute a thing like that)
The way I see it is that DesktopX is marketed as a part of ObjectDeskop and therefore as a tool to 'visually' customise your Desktop. Additionally, themes and widgets for it are hosted on a customisation site whose visitors are often excellent skinners, but only a few of them are good coders as well.
Konfabulator on the other hand was marketed as "the wonderful program, with which you can produce really cool stuff and it looks good on top of it". This may have attracted a broader base of coders and might be the reason why their widgets are more diverse.
Maybe DesktopX really needs its own website with its own visitor-base. Get DesktopX away from the customisation label and get it into the 'developper'-toolbox. I think even though DesktopX might be the better product, it is not taken seriously by its customers and mostly just seen as a program that makes your Desktop look pretty.
craeonics
Reply #13 Monday, January 24, 2005 3:24 AM
Reply #13 Monday, January 24, 2005 3:24 AM
I think Desktop X has a more toy-ish image, while Konfabulator would appear to be more serious.
But on the other hand, kona could be right about the Mac angle. Konfabulator travles in different circles than DesktopX does.
But on the other hand, kona could be right about the Mac angle. Konfabulator travles in different circles than DesktopX does.
kona0197
Reply #14 Monday, January 24, 2005 3:55 AM
Agreed. That probably would help.
Reply #14 Monday, January 24, 2005 3:55 AM
| Maybe DesktopX really needs its own website with its own visitor-base. Get DesktopX away from the customisation label and get it into the 'developper'-toolbox. I think even though DesktopX might be the better product, it is not taken seriously by its customers and mostly just seen as a program that makes your Desktop look pretty. |
Agreed. That probably would help.
Mackintosh
Reply #15 Monday, January 24, 2005 6:02 AM
Reply #15 Monday, January 24, 2005 6:02 AM
[01:39] besides, konfab has one thing going for it, it was made for Apple and Apple is "cool"
[01:41] and like I've said, konfab has the Apple thing going for it, and that's a powerful thing, especially since a lot fo Windows users secretly want to have a Mac
kona, you idea thief, shame on you.
[01:41]
kona, you idea thief, shame on you.
Septimus
Reply #16 Monday, January 24, 2005 6:27 AM
Reply #16 Monday, January 24, 2005 6:27 AM
For this Tsunami widget at least, Konfab is the better choice when it comes to being cross platform and having potential help a wider audience. Now all Pixoria need to do is donate a chunk of the registration fee to the disaster fund for the next month or so and... not sure where I'm going with this, but I don't like classing a disaster as an advertising campaign and I'm sure they don't either...
I don't think the exposure would have been as dramatic if it wasn't due to something that has effected millions of people through degree's of seperation. Seems like a moot issue to me and tasteless under the circumstances to worry about it.
I don't think the exposure would have been as dramatic if it wasn't due to something that has effected millions of people through degree's of seperation. Seems like a moot issue to me and tasteless under the circumstances to worry about it.
paxx
Reply #17 Monday, January 24, 2005 7:53 AM
Reply #17 Monday, January 24, 2005 7:53 AM
I also think that the only advantage Konfab has over DX is the fact that the widgets are cross-platform.
I think the way to counter this would be (if it's any possible) to have DX Pro export the widgets as standalone apps for both Mac and PC. Not as Konfab widgets, but as standalone apps, for both platform. Then you'd have the edge over Konfab.
neksus
Reply #18 Monday, January 24, 2005 7:58 AM
Reply #18 Monday, January 24, 2005 7:58 AM
I am trying to help!
I am making small Danish DesktopX widgets to get more Danish users!
I am making small Danish DesktopX widgets to get more Danish users!
laurentfr
Reply #19 Monday, January 24, 2005 8:08 AM
Reply #19 Monday, January 24, 2005 8:08 AM
A few comments from a recent Object Desktop buyer
What Desktop X did right
lots of power and potential, integration with Object Desktop, standalone programs
What should be done
1/ push widgets creation, Iconpackager got a boost from the GUI olympics. This year, it should be widget time. Quality and diversity should increase.
2/ make DX stable : ancient widgets should work. In the current 2.4 build (beta or not), it is not he case. If you do not want to get a bad reputation, fix it.
3/ Improve lisibility. At Konfab website, you can sort them by usage. If you look for a cpu meter, you do not have to browse through 100 Meteo widgets
What Desktop X did right
lots of power and potential, integration with Object Desktop, standalone programs
What should be done
1/ push widgets creation, Iconpackager got a boost from the GUI olympics. This year, it should be widget time. Quality and diversity should increase.
2/ make DX stable : ancient widgets should work. In the current 2.4 build (beta or not), it is not he case. If you do not want to get a bad reputation, fix it.
3/ Improve lisibility. At Konfab website, you can sort them by usage. If you look for a cpu meter, you do not have to browse through 100 Meteo widgets
joeKnowledge
Reply #20 Monday, January 24, 2005 8:21 AM
Reply #20 Monday, January 24, 2005 8:21 AM
Frogboy:
Firstly, I didn't know you had a PR firm.
Secondly
http://www.widgetgallery.com/
Those are some nice LOOKING widgets (as in the program looks good but we all know it doesn't do what DX does)
The amazing thing about this story is the imagination of two people to make such an object even as whole countries try to figure out how to get informaton to each other.
Third:
Why not make one yourselves and give it to them? Personally, I do not think a college will buy a program they know little about for 500 USD when they can push the cost to users willing to pay 25 USD.
Fourth:
Desktop X getting its own site might be an idea. http://www.desktopx.net
If you look at:
http://www.widgetgallery.com/
its graphic user interface for the website is nice. All it would take is for desktopx.net to intergate with wincustomize database like xpthemes.com does and that is it.
Fifth:
Giving away a few copies of DX Pro might be nice too (as long as they say what program they used), although you might have already done that.
And finally, I think DX rebagding could help. Call it DX would be better than DesktopX. Then promote DX, DX Pro and DX Corporate as:
DX Systems.
Now it is more 'developer toolbox' than before. Plus, now with the new name, do what Marcomedia, Adobe, Microsoft, and others do with develeper kits, production tools and other such things
BRING EDUCATION INTO IT
... As in school discounts, school give-a-ways and such. As I mentioned before, GIVE Harvard a copy, GIVE The New School in NYC a copy, GIVE MIT a copy.
A developers kit, school discounts, cool DX site with WinCustomize intergration (to introduce people into the cusomation world) via Stardock.net account.
Give Tiggs, gef, Xymantix, brewman, Will Rose, and [brazen weep] the DX Personal Pro version (to make widgets for non commercial use). What are you waiting for?
And remember what I said about Blog Navigator Pro being the 'new' windows internet explorer!!!!
joeKnowledge wonders if Frogboy is reading this...
Firstly, I didn't know you had a PR firm.
Secondly
http://www.widgetgallery.com/
Those are some nice LOOKING widgets (as in the program looks good but we all know it doesn't do what DX does)
The amazing thing about this story is the imagination of two people to make such an object even as whole countries try to figure out how to get informaton to each other.
Third:
| Solution B: College students talk university to buy ONE copy of DesktopX Pro ($499) which lets them export their widget as a stand-alone program so that they can distribute their program world-wide. |
Why not make one yourselves and give it to them? Personally, I do not think a college will buy a program they know little about for 500 USD when they can push the cost to users willing to pay 25 USD.
Fourth:
Desktop X getting its own site might be an idea. http://www.desktopx.net
If you look at:
http://www.widgetgallery.com/
its graphic user interface for the website is nice. All it would take is for desktopx.net to intergate with wincustomize database like xpthemes.com does and that is it.
Fifth:
Giving away a few copies of DX Pro might be nice too (as long as they say what program they used), although you might have already done that.
And finally, I think DX rebagding could help. Call it DX would be better than DesktopX. Then promote DX, DX Pro and DX Corporate as:
DX Systems.
Now it is more 'developer toolbox' than before. Plus, now with the new name, do what Marcomedia, Adobe, Microsoft, and others do with develeper kits, production tools and other such things
BRING EDUCATION INTO IT
... As in school discounts, school give-a-ways and such. As I mentioned before, GIVE Harvard a copy, GIVE The New School in NYC a copy, GIVE MIT a copy.
A developers kit, school discounts, cool DX site with WinCustomize intergration (to introduce people into the cusomation world) via Stardock.net account.
Give Tiggs, gef, Xymantix, brewman, Will Rose, and [brazen weep] the DX Personal Pro version (to make widgets for non commercial use). What are you waiting for?
And remember what I said about Blog Navigator Pro being the 'new' windows internet explorer!!!!
joeKnowledge wonders if Frogboy is reading this...
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Reply #1 Sunday, January 23, 2005 6:03 PM