Tsunami widget...FOR KONFABULATOR!
We're losers! Loooosseerrrs!
Sunday, January 23, 2005 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Let's get this question out of the way now:
Is Konfabulator better than DesktopX for the creation and usage of widgets?
I don't think it is. I *like* Konfabulator but it's not nearly as easy to create widgets for and the final widgets are .widget files and not EXEs like they are in DesktopX. Its default widgets ARE more polished than the typical DesktopX widget for sure.
But we're getting our butts kicked by Konfabulator. At least in terms of market share now. I'm not sure where we're going wrong. But we're going wrong somewhere. It's not in features that's for sure. If anything, we have too many features. And DesktopX costs less, doesn't time out and doesn't have a nag screen.
And it's in a positive cycle now. Robert X. Cringely wrote a terrific article about emergency systems using Konfabulator as part of his solution. Some students read it, write the app and contact their local newspaper. Newpaper runs it and pretty soon it's picked up everywhere: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=20631
Somewhere, something has gone wrong. I've been reading the riot act to our PR agency for months. I think perhaps it's time get a new PR firm since they haven't managed to get any stories going.
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joeKnowledge
Reply #22 Monday, January 24, 2005 8:30 AM
Reply #22 Monday, January 24, 2005 8:30 AM
Oh nd by the way:
Why not join up with free game sites like MiniClip.com, The Pacman Free Website, heck, even Microsoft's Game site and make DX gameing widgets!!! Make a few pro ones and 3 times as many DX download dependant ones and you got some attention right there.
http://www.miniclip.com
MiniClip.com
http://www.thepcmanwebsite.com/
The Pac Man Website
http://zone.msn.com
MSN Zone.com
I hear Friendster is having some problems with its community, why not offer them a way to better interact with their web viewers with DX widgets and themes
Why not join up with free game sites like MiniClip.com, The Pacman Free Website, heck, even Microsoft's Game site and make DX gameing widgets!!! Make a few pro ones and 3 times as many DX download dependant ones and you got some attention right there.
http://www.miniclip.com
MiniClip.com
http://www.thepcmanwebsite.com/
The Pac Man Website
http://zone.msn.com
MSN Zone.com
I hear Friendster is having some problems with its community, why not offer them a way to better interact with their web viewers with DX widgets and themes
GAIAStevef
Reply #23 Monday, January 24, 2005 9:54 AM
Reply #23 Monday, January 24, 2005 9:54 AM
While I do agree that DX is a much more powerful package, and I feel it has much more potential than Konfabulator, I've still registered KF and tend to use it more often for one major reason, you apparently still cannot run "Web connected" DX objects or widgets from behind a proxy configured workstation... I know NaturalDesktop can do it, as I have it workign on my laptop here at the office, but I have yet to find any DX widget/object to work correctly... is it not supported by DX? or is it just not code that's added per widget/object? (the latter I suspect).
How about a common code snippet or template to handle proxy configuration, or at least to parse what your IE system settings are and prompt accordingly. At my office here, it's a proxyserver.company.com:8080 type config that requires signin authentication for each new IE window opened... so a DX widget should parse the setting at startup, prompt for your username & pwd if required, and then run as normal.
How about a common code snippet or template to handle proxy configuration, or at least to parse what your IE system settings are and prompt accordingly. At my office here, it's a proxyserver.company.com:8080 type config that requires signin authentication for each new IE window opened... so a DX widget should parse the setting at startup, prompt for your username & pwd if required, and then run as normal.
Diafragma
Reply #25 Monday, January 24, 2005 10:32 AM
Reply #25 Monday, January 24, 2005 10:32 AM
I would make the widget part of DesktopX a separate program and name it different since DesktopX brings back alot of bad memories... just my two cents 
Frogboy
Reply #26 Monday, January 24, 2005 10:36 AM
Reply #26 Monday, January 24, 2005 10:36 AM
Unless you're a pirate, I can't see how anyone could possibly think Konfabulator is a better choice.
With Konfabuator, the widget gets made and then EVERY user has to download a 17 meg download of Konfabulator, install that, pay for it (it puts a perm nag on your desktop after 15 days).
With DesktopX Pro, you export your widget as a stand alone EXE. Final download is around 500K and anyone can use it without having to download anything else.
For a project like the Tsunami one, we'd provide a free license of DesktopX Pro for them or create the gadget for them.
Also, creating a widget in DesktopX is much easier. I bet more than 2% of the market (the size of the Mac market) would have problems downloading a 17 megabyte file per machine that wants to use this.
Septimus
Reply #27 Monday, January 24, 2005 11:15 AM
Reply #27 Monday, January 24, 2005 11:15 AM
It's 7 and 4 MB's respectively for PC and Mac (unless you mean the widget then my apologies; but have never seen a 17mb widget). To be fair, the students read the article, it said Konfabulator, they googled it probably, downloaded it and wrote it.
They would have no clue as to DX or that you would have supplied something free like [Pro] that from that article. It's just a twist of fate that this is the end result.
They would have no clue as to DX or that you would have supplied something free like [Pro] that from that article. It's just a twist of fate that this is the end result.
GAIAStevef
Reply #28 Monday, January 24, 2005 11:55 AM
It's not a matter of which one "is a better choice", but which one will work for my particular task needs... I am a registered ODNT user, and a registered Konfabulator user... I would LOVE to only have one application to have to worry about upgrades, configurations etc to, but until DX can work behind a proxy configuration, I'll continue to use both. I've got to believe my situation is not unique either.
Reply #28 Monday, January 24, 2005 11:55 AM
| Unless you're a pirate, I can't see how anyone could possibly think Konfabulator is a better choice. |
It's not a matter of which one "is a better choice", but which one will work for my particular task needs... I am a registered ODNT user, and a registered Konfabulator user... I would LOVE to only have one application to have to worry about upgrades, configurations etc to, but until DX can work behind a proxy configuration, I'll continue to use both. I've got to believe my situation is not unique either.
Mackintosh
Reply #29 Monday, January 24, 2005 1:05 PM
Reply #29 Monday, January 24, 2005 1:05 PM
And lets not forget that Konfab widgets tend to be more useful than the DX ones. I spent a good deal of time browsing the Konfab library yesterday and found a number of cool widgets that I would want to use, such as parcel tracking, world clock, site ping, site status, traffic camera images, memory/cpu meters that also display the process that is taking up the largest amount of resources, etc. For the most part, DX widgets are variations on weather checkers, calendars and simple resource meters. While they match Konfab on eyecandy, they're still losing out in functionality.
If my little escapade into the Konfab widget gallery did anything yesterday, it was to spark my interest in purchasing it, just to get some stuff I could use that the current crop of DX widgets is lacking.
If my little escapade into the Konfab widget gallery did anything yesterday, it was to spark my interest in purchasing it, just to get some stuff I could use that the current crop of DX widgets is lacking.
GAIAStevef
Reply #30 Monday, January 24, 2005 3:51 PM
I don't think that's entirely giving DX the credit it deserves though... DX can be so much more than just another "Widget runner", which in my opinion is all that Konfabulator or Avedesk are. With DX, you can build an entire replacement desktop environment, (think kiosk mode, or s "focused shell" environment for internet cafe's, or libraries, etc).
My complaints above should not in any way be taken to mean that I'm unsatisfied with my "value for purchase" for the product.. I think it's an amazing product for what amounts to a dirt cheap price given what you can do with it, which is basicaly anything... limited only by creativity.
I do agree with all the coments above that DX needs a concerted community effort to evangelize it as a product and what it's capabilities are. I think the idea of a dedicated web presence is a great idea, especially if it can be a community resource for code sharing, etc. as that may help to flatten the learning curve for new people to adopt it as a development platform.
Reply #30 Monday, January 24, 2005 3:51 PM
| And lets not forget that Konfab widgets tend to be more useful than the DX ones. I spent a good deal of time browsing the Konfab library yesterday and found a number of cool widgets that I would want to use, such as parcel tracking, world clock, site ping, site status, traffic camera images, memory/cpu meters that also display the process that is taking up the largest amount of resources, etc. For the most part, DX widgets are variations on weather checkers, calendars and simple resource meters. While they match Konfab on eyecandy, they're still losing out in functionality |
I don't think that's entirely giving DX the credit it deserves though... DX can be so much more than just another "Widget runner", which in my opinion is all that Konfabulator or Avedesk are. With DX, you can build an entire replacement desktop environment, (think kiosk mode, or s "focused shell" environment for internet cafe's, or libraries, etc).
My complaints above should not in any way be taken to mean that I'm unsatisfied with my "value for purchase" for the product.. I think it's an amazing product for what amounts to a dirt cheap price given what you can do with it, which is basicaly anything... limited only by creativity.
I do agree with all the coments above that DX needs a concerted community effort to evangelize it as a product and what it's capabilities are. I think the idea of a dedicated web presence is a great idea, especially if it can be a community resource for code sharing, etc. as that may help to flatten the learning curve for new people to adopt it as a development platform.
Mackintosh
Reply #31 Monday, January 24, 2005 4:11 PM
Oh absolutely, but ultimately, unless DX's power is harnessed and approprietly implemented, so that the end user will find it useful, all those capabilities will add up to sweet jack all, because the market will be swamped with Konfab and Avedesk. That's like saying there are more powerful operating systems than Windows that can do so much more, which is probably true, but the average user will then reply "So what? Windows already does what I want it to do".
Alas I do agree with what you're saying
Reply #31 Monday, January 24, 2005 4:11 PM
| I don't think that's entirely giving DX the credit it deserves though... DX can be so much more than just another "Widget runner", which in my opinion is all that Konfabulator or Avedesk are. With DX, you can build an entire replacement desktop environment, (think kiosk mode, or s "focused shell" environment for internet cafe's, or libraries, etc). |
Oh absolutely, but ultimately, unless DX's power is harnessed and approprietly implemented, so that the end user will find it useful, all those capabilities will add up to sweet jack all, because the market will be swamped with Konfab and Avedesk. That's like saying there are more powerful operating systems than Windows that can do so much more, which is probably true, but the average user will then reply "So what? Windows already does what I want it to do".
Alas I do agree with what you're saying
joeKnowledge
Reply #32 Monday, January 24, 2005 4:49 PM
Yes someone is listening!!!
So then give them a call!!! Its for a good cause anyway. Just offer your services to expanding the project. Heck, tell them about AveDesk while your at it just to seem fare.
(By the way, did you read the other stuff I mentioned????)
joeKnowledge will contiue to bug Frogboy until he gives in and does what I want.
Yeah, I saw the library and I have to say they have some pretty cool widgets. Some of the info is stuff I didn't know was avaible to get (although in theory is possible)
Frogboy, maybe if you invite people to make widgets for DX (like from the developers websites suh as Builder.com and alistapart.com or CNET) they will come. I was very excited when I found out about DX while I was at school doing IT. I though I could do anything with this app (and I can if I could remember how to code C++ and Visual Basic).
Reply #32 Monday, January 24, 2005 4:49 PM
| Skinner CerebroJD - Joe, I think you've got some super ideas! |
Yes someone is listening!!!
| Frogboy - For a project like the Tsunami one, we'd provide a free license of DesktopX Pro for them or create the gadget for them. |
So then give them a call!!! Its for a good cause anyway. Just offer your services to expanding the project. Heck, tell them about AveDesk while your at it just to seem fare.
(By the way, did you read the other stuff I mentioned????)
joeKnowledge will contiue to bug Frogboy until he gives in and does what I want.
| Mackintosh - And lets not forget that Konfab widgets tend to be more useful than the DX ones. I spent a good deal of time browsing the Konfab library yesterday and found a number of cool widgets that I would want to use, such as parcel tracking, world clock, site ping, site status, traffic camera images, memory/cpu meters that also display the process that is taking up the largest amount of resources, etc. |
Yeah, I saw the library and I have to say they have some pretty cool widgets. Some of the info is stuff I didn't know was avaible to get (although in theory is possible)
Frogboy, maybe if you invite people to make widgets for DX (like from the developers websites suh as Builder.com and alistapart.com or CNET) they will come. I was very excited when I found out about DX while I was at school doing IT. I though I could do anything with this app (and I can if I could remember how to code C++ and Visual Basic).
kona0197
Reply #33 Monday, January 24, 2005 5:41 PM
That's not true. I just downloaded Konfab. 7.6 meg download.
Also it was mentioned that the free version of Konfab puts a nag screen on your system when you start it up. But if I remember right so do most free versions of OD products and the free DX as well?
Reply #33 Monday, January 24, 2005 5:41 PM
| With Konfabuator, the widget gets made and then EVERY user has to download a 17 meg download of Konfabulator |
That's not true. I just downloaded Konfab. 7.6 meg download.
Also it was mentioned that the free version of Konfab puts a nag screen on your system when you start it up. But if I remember right so do most free versions of OD products and the free DX as well?
paxx
Reply #34 Monday, January 24, 2005 6:41 PM
Kona, did you miss the point? The point being that if a widget is exported with Desktop Pro, the resulting widgets DON'T NEED Desktop X to run. A developer can then distribute his widgets as standalone mini-app. No need for Konfab, no need for Desktop X, nor anything else.
Reply #34 Monday, January 24, 2005 6:41 PM
| But if I remember right so do most free versions of OD products and the free DX as well? |
kona0197
Reply #35 Monday, January 24, 2005 6:45 PM
Reply #35 Monday, January 24, 2005 6:45 PM
I'm quite aware of that point Paxx. I'm sorry if I drifted a bit off topic.
Mackintosh
Reply #36 Monday, January 24, 2005 6:54 PM
Reply #36 Monday, January 24, 2005 6:54 PM
Provided the aformentioned developer purchases DX Pro, how many small time artists/coders are going to splash out $499 just so that he or she can distribute standalone mini-apps?
paxx
Reply #37 Monday, January 24, 2005 7:16 PM
Reply #37 Monday, January 24, 2005 7:16 PM
Well, Makintosh, I guess it depends who we are talking about.
A developer creating apps with MS Visual Studio already needs to dish out $800. Developer tools don't come cheap, and are usually not paid by any individual but by the company that employs him to create such apps. Besides, the licensing for Dx Pro for creating non-commercial non-promotional apps is $129. So, in this particular example, the developers of the Tsunami widget - since the widget would not be used commercially nor to promote any web site, company or product - could have gotten DX Pro for just $129, and therefore avoid the hassle of asking the users to download a trial version of another software.
joeKnowledge
Reply #38 Tuesday, January 25, 2005 3:38 PM
Reply #38 Tuesday, January 25, 2005 3:38 PM
exactly. that makes sense.
nevertheless, i am sure what those who were creating the widget did not want to invest 129 USD for the product. they would rather push off the price tag to those who want to use it.
I still say, if you want DX to get out there, give it to those I mentioned above (the non-commercial one) and head toward some schools who have IT or Media design classes.
nevertheless, i am sure what those who were creating the widget did not want to invest 129 USD for the product. they would rather push off the price tag to those who want to use it.
I still say, if you want DX to get out there, give it to those I mentioned above (the non-commercial one) and head toward some schools who have IT or Media design classes.
Island Dog
Reply #39 Tuesday, January 25, 2005 4:06 PM
Reply #39 Tuesday, January 25, 2005 4:06 PM
I also want to add that I agree with those who suggested changing the name to DX. I think we can all agree the newer DesktopX is not like the old one in relation to performance and functionality. I say start new with a name like DX and launch a marketing campaign to get the word out.
sranshaft
Reply #40 Tuesday, January 25, 2005 5:05 PM
Reply #40 Tuesday, January 25, 2005 5:05 PM
before Stardock starts worrying about the name perhaps they should get a stable build under their belts. one thing that distracts from the appeal of DesktopX or DX (whichever you prefer) is that from build to build there seems to be an incremental amount of bugs. what we need is a stable build backward capatable.
-- I think we can all agree the newer DesktopX is not like the old one in relation to performance and functionality.
true, but it still has the bugs and errors-galore it once had. this drives many people away. who wants to design anything for a program that won't work when the next update is available? i, for one don't.
-- I think we can all agree the newer DesktopX is not like the old one in relation to performance and functionality.
true, but it still has the bugs and errors-galore it once had. this drives many people away. who wants to design anything for a program that won't work when the next update is available? i, for one don't.
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Reply #21 Monday, January 24, 2005 8:23 AM
I like DesktopX, I use it everyday, but if it wasn't for finding wincusotmize.com I would have never known it existed. Besides the usual tech and customization forums, I rarely see any mention of DesktopX anywhere. We all know that DesktopX has great potential and is a great program, but that doesn't matter if nobody knows about it. I don't know what Stardocks marketing options are, but to be truthful, it doesn't impress me.
For a short time I worked in the music industry. We as most labels do, have something called "street teams". Their job is to push the artist or cd on a "user" level. These people would not go and buy full page ads in major newspapers, but they would connect with people and do their best to push the product. I would like to suggest Stardock do something like this. There are so many people that believe in this product that finding some people wouldn't be a problem, myself included.
As far as the product itself I have some more opinions. DesktopX is not the simplest product to use. I have to agree with the statements that laurentfr made and add a few of my own. I would love to make more objects and widgets, but I am a not a programmer. When I make an object it pretty much has to stick to the basic scripts, e-mail checking, etc. I have tried to "tear apart" weather scripts and make my own, but it just doesn't work out for me. I think adding more basic scripts where people can most concentrate on graphics than programming that would help a lot.
I just want to say again that DesktopX is a great product, it just needs to be a little more user friendly. Keep up the great work and I have no doubt that it will succeeed.